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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 21 post(s) |
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CCP Antiquarian
C C P C C P Alliance
185
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Posted - 2016.09.30 15:33:40 -
[1] - Quote
The new Price History graphs for the market are now visible on Singularity.
Please hop onto the test server market and play around. A few notes:
- The time period displayed can be controlled with the resizable and slidable focus box on the lower graph.
- The y-axis length and center of the main graph can be controlled with the scroll wheel.
- Each element of the main graph can be toggled off and on in the graph settings cog menu (upper right).
- Graph draw animations can also be disabled in the settings.
Before testing and commenting, peruse these known issues:
- A crash when you minimize the market to the Neocom with a price history graph displayed
- An untranslated animation label in the price history graph settings menu
- Framing issues at extreme y-axis zooms
- Absence of a legend
But do feel free to comment and report additional bugs via the F12 menu. Thanks
"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."
@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.
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CCP Antiquarian
C C P C C P Alliance
186
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Posted - 2016.10.03 12:03:26 -
[2] - Quote
Known issues updated with fixes from 1079640!
"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."
@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.
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Limarr
Deep Space Supplies Curatores Veritatis Alliance
16
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Posted - 2016.10.04 22:39:12 -
[3] - Quote
1. Select hide legend in the menu also hide the menu :)
2. I want to have for example a 3 month timeframe for every item in market. How?
3. The dragbox seems broken. Timeframes for several items switches back to 30 days.
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CCP Antiquarian
C C P C C P Alliance
186
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Posted - 2016.10.05 17:36:09 -
[4] - Quote
Limarr wrote:1. Select hide legend in the menu also hide the menu :) FIXED!
Quote:2. I want to have for example a 3 month timeframe for every item in market. How? Right now, you'll have to adjust them manually, but the Market should remember your choice for each item.
Quote:3. The dragbox seems broken. Timeframes for several items switches back to 30 days. Hm...we haven't seen that on the current version. Can you provide an example?
"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."
@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.
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Limarr
Deep Space Supplies Curatores Veritatis Alliance
16
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Posted - 2016.10.07 18:46:02 -
[5] - Quote
1. Fixed confirmed
2. Market now remember timeframe settings for every item thats good but after relogging today everything is resetted to 1 month timeframe.
Maybe a klickfest for traders every day. I would prefer an additional global option for the timeframe like on TQ. We will see later.
3. Fixed |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
359
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Posted - 2016.10.07 20:43:25 -
[6] - Quote
While you are at it, could you take a look at bug report EBR-88929 (issued for TQ)? |
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CCP Antiquarian
C C P C C P Alliance
190
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Posted - 2016.10.09 23:09:20 -
[7] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:While you are at it, could you take a look at bug report EBR-88929 (issued for TQ)?
Will scan down and investigate tomorrow. On AT recovery just now.
"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."
@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.
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Sky Marshal
Core Industry. Circle-Of-Two
139
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Posted - 2016.10.10 19:50:07 -
[8] - Quote
This new market graph is definitively better if we are speaking about functionality. Well, I would love to see the low or high price directly in the graph or in the hovering dialog on any bar, but whatever : It is already better than before.
But... in the visual domain, this is an absolute failure. The background of the price graph in the TQ version is not transparent even with Transparency at maximum. In SiSi, it is transparent and so totally not usable. Any player who want to use the price graph will HAVE to disable Transparency (and blur, to be sure), some players won't appreciate. I don't use Transparency in the first place, but I wanted to test.
The color palette chosen is not really great. If you have set really low brightness on your monitor like me, it make the graph difficult to use. It is exploitable, but not as much than the actual TQ palette. Maybe an option to get old colors ? |
Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
155
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Posted - 2016.10.10 23:31:55 -
[9] - Quote
It's certainly an improvement, but the obvious issues (see Sky Marshal's remarks above):
- transparency literally murders it (and this is not only related to the market window)
- another thing that would be nice to have - ability to grab it and move vertically (not critical, but nice)
But overall yea - it's much better (once the above get sorted out). Being able to finally scale it is much appreciated after 13 years of ... well yea.
While we're at interface related issues - the interface with certain things have been PITA for a few years, since some of the stuff was changed and all feedback was directed straight to /dev/null. Among those:
- lack of rgb sliders - forced snap-in (this is often beyond frustrating); in the past we could define distance, including turning it of completely - forced transparency when pinned down - forced pullup of snapped windows when their neighbour is getting minimized to title bar (even if they are pinned, seriously ....) - lack of tab (ninja removed quite recently) minimizing to title bars
That people stopped complaining about those doesn't mean that people like those changes. Everyone has certain threshold of endurance when one stops caring and just moves on without bothering to suggest or bugreport [anything] anymore.
There is a barrel of outstanding issues (both months old bugs and/or obvious usability issues) related to everything recently added - map, solar/probe map, probe dialog, tactical overlay, "WAS", camera ...
Anyway as I digress - back to market: while you're changing this part of interface, few minor things would be amazing to have along with the new graphs for november release:
- Wallet & Corporate Wallet -> Transactions: for those two LMB double click action is not even defined. It would be quite amazing if it showed market details for the item of completed transaction
- "Mark my orders" - is a little amazing thing that helps seing your own orders. It would be even more amazing if we had "Mark corporation orders" as well (enabled for characters that have "trader" role); for traders using multiple characters this would be godsend when going through finished transactions - seing all coproration orders for specific item without the need to constantly alt-tab / eve-preview / etc. and click, click, click ....
- when LMB double clicking under market details on one's own order - it would make much more sense to call "modify order" dialog
Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl
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Domain's Eye
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2016.10.11 17:46:34 -
[10] - Quote
I heartfully disagree with anybody saying that it represents an improvement. Quoting myself from the other thread :
Domain's Eye wrote:I usually don't wish terrible things to people i don't know, but those in charge of the new market graphs should be fire. Simple as that.
To think that you actually put (very needed elsewhere) ressources there, to screw up something that nobody asked you to change, is simply infuriating.
The left axis makes no sense, at all. I can't see the current day's dot, regardless of how much i tinker and screw this f*ucking slide. I'm forced to "Show Table" every single time. I can't set a default size other than 30 days. The 365 days size is flawed as many already stated.
New pale colors inside a very dark window, same kind of crap you pulled for the "New Map" (forever in Beta) which is an absolute mess. You can hardly see anything, and with the gigantic failure of the left axis, the whole thing is simply not usable as it is.
I'd highly encourage you to look at that quickly, otherwise i'll quit EVE once again, for good and forever this time.
Right now, i simply cannot play. There is no way to put a default slide size that fitts my needs, there's no way to see the current day's data, graphs are still broken by any unusual event (so yeah, disable donchian, min/max AND average, and usually there's no problem : great).
It's messy, it's awful : you screwed up massively. |
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Dhinesbeth Valnuuhr
Team-Pyro Industries
1
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Posted - 2016.10.11 18:39:04 -
[11] - Quote
If I knew that topic existed 10 days ago, I would have berated you on the short notice of things and would have been able to provide much better feedback than what the bulletins I wrote elsewhere. Thank you Domain's Eye for making me aware of it, even though you didn't say anything. Here are the points from the feedback topic in case anyone is still interested, which I highly doubt at this point *sighs*
- Why do we need a red line which acts as "zero ISK" and why do we need a negative ISK display? Neither exists on the market. The line is confusing. I understand you tried to make the "volume" bars better visible on low price, high volume goods, but you simply could have moved those volume bars to the top and have a dynamic left axis which adjusts for lowest price when a new low is hit.
- The left axis is completely inconsistent in price jumps when scrolling. It makes no sense. You should apply an algorithm which checks price differences and make nice clean round numbers according to it's relation.
- Scrolling does not dynamically adjust focus point with price jumps to keep everything in line. It keeps focusing on the zero line. It should be centered on median day price.
- Clicking an option in the cogwheel resets the graph instead of keeping where it is.
- The time slider does not add up horizontally with the graph window, causing confusion as you don't know what it should refer to. Volume? Prices? Fix it to the same width please, making room for other options.
- Time slide colours are too diffuse and hard to see.
- There are no presets to click for time shown. I like the slider and how I can click it, but presets which are located below/above the slider chart (and not hidden in a dropdown menu which causes one extra click) would be just as useful.
- All bars and dots are scaled to a full year even though only a few days are selected. That makes it difficult to gauge finer changes and makes it less intuitive to look at. Volume bars and price dots should scale dynamically according to the timeframe shown. Making everything refer to 365 (sorry, I meant 364...) days, is terribly lazy design philosophy.
- A great example on how intuitive visibility is broken: Look at "Construction Blocks" in Lonetrek. Thanks to that one ridiculous spike, all graphs lack detailed definition.
- The graph does not auto-update as you pull the slide because it's fixed to the silly full year range. Make it dynamic based on visibility and auto-update on dragging.
- We still can't make our own settings for non-daily average. Why can't I set 10 day or 30 day averages?
- We still don't have a setting that says "ignore prices which are x % above and below regional average" to clip away unnecessary spikes.
The slider saves each position for each item individually and never acts smart about it. That is nauseating.
When I look at a portion of an item, a 40 day segment from earlier this year, it STAYS there only for this very item until I log out. It's okay that it prevails through session changes to not disturb during warping. It's okay that it does not save it when logging out. Still I'm sure there are people who want options for that.
I don't care for having the time slider saved at that position. It's actually getting in my way of doing my trading. If I review the item again it might be in a different region where that selection doesn't apply any more, so I want it snapped back to the earliest record at my default time window. There is no way to set a default time window currently. There should be. 30 days default are not what I am used to work with. There are already too many clicks in the user interface that need to be done to get to a reasonable result and adding more clicks to it isn't helping.
I like the slider. I like the colours but they should be brighter. I like how there is mouseover information for volume and median day. That's the only things I find good here.
You also should: break up volume into "units sold / units bought" which can be easily done with a second colour (a change I wait for since years) and you should add highest / lowest price on top of the median day mouseover info. |
Tesal
451
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Posted - 2016.10.12 00:16:17 -
[12] - Quote
The preferences get erased after the end of the client session, so you have to manually scroll to a year from a default of a month. I need it set to a year and don't really use other time horizons. Very poor design. I am not happy. |
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CCP Antiquarian
C C P C C P Alliance
192
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Posted - 2016.10.12 00:35:27 -
[13] - Quote
Although this iteration is already out on TQ, I am taking down some of the suggestions here for future iterative work. We are very receptive to any civilly worded criticism that will help improve the game, and I will keep an eye out for ways to improve this feature for everyone. Some description here for users that are curious about the design decisions:
The red zero line and potential for negatives on the Y axis are present because we have not yet implemented the ability to click and drag within the graph. Because scrolling can move the graph center up or down dramatically, we found it useful to have a baseline clearly visible.
We used a utility called Color Oracle to help inform our color choices. We will take another look at the transparency, pursuant to the issues reported here (I play with 100% transparency enabled, personally, but testing has been conducted all along the slider).
Bar and Dot sizes are dynamic depending on the selected time frame of the slidable, resizable focus box, which displays the period selected in days. It matches the length of the X-axis (the number of bars and dot's displayed) and features the same month division lines for clarity.
There are open defects regarding the reset of the Y-axis when selecting or deselecting a setting option in the cogwheel menu and the absence of the current day dot.
"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."
@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.
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Krysenth
Saints Of Havoc Moose Federation
2
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Posted - 2016.10.12 07:35:54 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Antiquarian wrote:Although this iteration is already out on TQ, I am taking down some of the suggestions here for future iterative work. We are very receptive to any civilly worded criticism that will help improve the game, and I will keep an eye out for ways to improve this feature for everyone. Some description here for users that are curious about the design decisions:
The red zero line and potential for negatives on the Y axis are present because we have not yet implemented the ability to click and drag within the graph. Because scrolling can move the graph center up or down dramatically, we found it useful to have a baseline clearly visible.
We used a utility called Color Oracle to help inform our color choices. We will take another look at the transparency, pursuant to the issues reported here (I play with 100% transparency enabled, personally, but testing has been conducted all along the slider).
Bar and Dot sizes are dynamic depending on the selected time frame of the slidable, resizable focus box, which displays the period selected in days. It matches the length of the X-axis (the number of bars and dot's displayed) and features the same month division lines for clarity.
There are open defects regarding the reset of the Y-axis when selecting or deselecting a setting option in the cogwheel menu and the absence of the current day dot. Depending on the granularity of the data available, it would be nice to be able to view the last 24 whole hours (ie a new iteration every hour) of things. Additionally, can we PLEASE have an option to increase size of the volume bars? Frankly it's a little ******** when the graph sets the size of volume based on the highest spike in the last year, rather than based off the highest volume of the time you're VIEWING. As an example, just because nitrogen isotopes had a 8mil+ volume spike half a year ago should not mean the entire graph is set to a high value of 8mil for volume when for any other given timeframe, you're looking at say, <1mil volume a day. |
virm pasuul
The Congregation No Handlebars.
408
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Posted - 2016.10.12 09:49:13 -
[15] - Quote
A bit non plussed with the new market graph too. I realise you gals and guys work hard at CCP to make the game better and it must be really disheartening when you think you've worked hard to make something really cool and then we all just moan about it. We do appreciate the work you put in even if we grizzle about the end result.
For me the new graph stuff looks prettier, but is less useful as a tool, and that what us players who stare at the market graphs the most want, not pretty graphics but a useful tool. This is the essence of my feedback on the changes. Style over substance.
Where to start? Price graph scale going negative????? wtf? why?
The uneven scaling on the left hand axis. I've looked through my basket of favourtie market items and quite a few of them have uneven scaling, sometimes it jumps by 0.2 sometimes by 0.3. Of course it's down to the rounding in the display of the scale but having points on a scale that are equally spaced having different numerical increases between points is just absurd.
Visbility - my eyesight is quite poor even with glasses. Each time you mute down colours and brightness it makes dealing with the Eve user interface much more difficult for me. Just normal UI Eve windows alone are a real pain for me, because you don't like to have window borders, or stand out icons top right in the window. I am always closing the wrong window by mistake. Always. Please please please consider people who aren't as young as you and don't have as good eyesight when doing UI stuff. I bet you UI peeps all work in a fairly dark room which allows your young eyes to really see the subtle and muted interface parts with ease.
Default horizontal axis timescale gone :( Yeah the slidey thing is all fancy, but I just want to be able to choose 1 year, six months, one month etc... and hop around the items looking at them all over my chosen timescale. Having to adjust each one over and over again is a real sad moment here. This is a prime example of fancy graphics over usability. Please please put this back in, you removed something very useful. This is my biggest feedback request on the changes. If nothing else please fix this one thing.
Table view. I did have an instance where the table view data order was all messed up but clicking on other items I'm not seeing it again, so assume a one off glitch.
Feature request - not a comment on changes. An extend axis to zero on/off radio button for price left axis. I know this will flatten many graphs if turned on but it will highlight very significantly price fluctuation versus cost of item. Optional extend scale to zero big big Christmas wish here please santa CCP.
I do appreciate the work you gals and guys do, but please fix this. Big frown over here for the changes. Sorry for not liking the changes. They are pretty and swish. They do look cool modern and sci-fi. I can see if I was showing a new player to the game I would turn the animations back on and they would probably be impressed. Just as a tool it's less useful than it was before and I would like you to add that functionality back please.
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Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
941
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Posted - 2016.10.12 12:39:09 -
[16] - Quote
As of today, the default slider of 30d does not go up to todays date, it goes to the 10th.
You need to manually slide it to the right to get 11th (12th is not viewable at all)
Whilst it is good that the slider remembers each items range after you select it, having to manually set a range on each item is.....frustrating.
Fluffy Bunny Pic!
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virm pasuul
The Congregation No Handlebars.
408
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Posted - 2016.10.12 12:43:28 -
[17] - Quote
The sliders only appear to remember per session. So if you log of, log back on, they are all reset :(
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Aaril
Interstellar Consulting Group
39
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Posted - 2016.10.12 19:13:01 -
[18] - Quote
Please bring back a default drop down timescale that will just automatically set the slider. I personally want to see 3 months, not have drag it close to 3 months for my huge list of items.
An even bigger concern is the color palette. Dim colors on a dark background? Either let us choose the colors, or bring back the old color scheme. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
1526
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Posted - 2016.10.13 10:40:49 -
[19] - Quote
I don't think anything has been done right on the new market graph.
How did this get to TQ in such a terrible state? |
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
466
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Posted - 2016.10.13 16:58:02 -
[20] - Quote
Cista2 wrote:Then there is the y-scale of the same graph. Instead of sensible numbers, it consists of seemingly random decimal numbers. I try to imagine how someone felt this would be appreciated?
Well maybe through bad luck I got some untested code loaded into my client and everything will be fine next time I log in...
Edit: so , here are the values on the y-axis of one item I just looked at:
0,12B 0,12B 0,11B 0,11B 0,10B 96,79M 91,40M 86,01M 80,62M 75,22M etc
What the difference is between 0,11B and 0,11B I dunno, it is quite meaningless to try and read values from such a scale.
Not sure how this number debacle could have made it on TQ. Even if you insist of keeping the bad numeric values at 0,XX and such nonsense, could you at least add one or two spaces between numbers and letters.
I have to lean into the screens every time to check if I assumed (not even read) correctly. Big screens and small fonts (you know, to enjoy space a bit more) really make it quite hard and straining.
I rarely use it, but I find it highly irritating, as well as the missing timescale dropdown which is still in the table version. Most people need to see the past few days for market changes or for long terms for few items, the selective time scale can stay, but please, still keep the previous focus (of last 5 days, last 3 months etc.).
I talked to pro market traders who spent hours adjusting market orders every day and you can guess what they think of it.
Join the BIG Lottery (see Bio ingame), _oldest and only _[u]non-profit Lottery in EVE[/u], every second Monday.
Wire ISK to BIG GAMES for tickets !
Join the Channel, have fun, being a lucky winner is optional ,)
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Caleb Ayrania
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
323
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Posted - 2016.10.13 20:37:25 -
[21] - Quote
No idea how or who did this new graph, but clearly someone forgot to google TA widgets, and seriously try how these things work in real life... Pretty sure there are a rather huge number of open source projects to reverse engineer a working tool..
What stock exchange is it you guys need negative Y-axis values for?
I was under the impression that CCP Quant had some really nice graphing tools he uses, and have even shared them with the players for better visualizations..
And please on the actual art work, can we get a color selection or way to increase the contrasts of the elements in the graph? It all looks like a bad murky reception screen..
On the thumbs up side, I am elated that something is even worked on in this area of the game, so a HUGE thanks for that.. but please get this right in a bit of a hurry, its worse than the old graph as it stands, even though it LOOKS better!
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Maenth
The Thirteen Provinces
27
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Posted - 2016.10.15 09:59:31 -
[22] - Quote
It might just be me but, The slider area showing the relative price for the past year, the 'fill' effect of that price depiction kinda tricks my mind into thinking it's representing volume traded rather than sale prices. On that note, it might be nice to also see a similar history/summary area representing volumes traded! Preferably seeing them at the same time somehow.
Similar to an earlier comment, Whether using the new or old market graphs, I have often wished for some manual control of the y-axis scale representing trade volumes and prices; with manual control we could easily ignore anomalous spikes that 'wash out' the more detailed/important information of typical daily trade volumes and prices IF we want to.
Drones. Drones are a means to an end. An end to the ruthless Caldari 'progress' machines. An end to the barbaric 'redemption' proposed by the Amarr. What they see as chaos shall be my perfect order, merely beyond their comprehension.
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Elsy Brenalle
Datacore Mining Corp.
0
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Posted - 2016.10.15 14:54:16 -
[23] - Quote
Let's begin:
1. Colorful imterface, that's good for game. Incapability to change the colors or contrast is pretty bad though.
2. Rudiculous 29.94M, 36.09M, 42.23M etc numbers on the left axis. I understand that you wanted to make some algorithm, but it works not very good in way it ls. Round numbers are waaay more understenable than what we have for now.
3. Default drop down horizontal axis timescale. We NEED it!!! Please get it back! |
Black Romero
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Ditanian Alliance
14
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Posted - 2016.10.15 15:23:50 -
[24] - Quote
Please, please, PLEASE! For the love of all that is good in this world....
MAKE THE SLIDER DEFAULT an option or set it to a default of 1 year!
1 year makes sense because it give the most information to the user at a quick glance. THEN...if you need to get granular, you zoom in to one month or less.
You took away functionality from the old graphs when you changed the default to 30 days.
I get it will remember (although some posts indicate it doesn't) your settings. But the old graph stayed where you set it and applied it universally. I didn't chose to set it at 30 days. So now I have to go resetting it for the literally thousands of items I buy/sell/look at.
You really killed my trading game with this change and I can't tell you home much it sucks without being "unconstructive."
Please make it a setting or something to set the default time zoom. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
1545
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Posted - 2016.10.15 16:02:41 -
[25] - Quote
Can this be moved back to SISI where it belongs?
I appreciate that work is being done on the market after all these years, but I would rather it not be developed and tested on the live server. |
Domain's Eye
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2016.10.15 20:31:32 -
[26] - Quote
CCP Antiquarian wrote:Although this iteration is already out on TQ, I am taking down some of the suggestions here for future iterative work. We are very receptive to any civilly worded criticism that will help improve the game, and I will keep an eye out for ways to improve this feature for everyone.
So how is the civilly worded criticism going on these days ? Do you feel there's some legitimate critics being made somehow ? Keeping "an eye" on how to improve this feature ? You might want to use both eyes and actually put googles, so you can actually understand that the only approprite thing to do right now is to REMOVE this feature back to SiSi.
I deeply apologize for the lack of feedback prior to release, i resubed recently and didn't know this was in preparation, otherwise i can garantee you i would have checked and shared... some feedback.
Allow me to say your answer was quite amazing by the way :
CCP Antiquarian wrote: The red zero line and potential for negatives on the Y axis are present because we have not yet implemented the ability to click and drag within the graph. Because scrolling can move the graph center up or down dramatically, we found it useful to have a baseline clearly visible.
There are open defects regarding the reset of the Y-axis when selecting or deselecting a setting option in the cogwheel menu and the absence of the current day dot.
So... why did you release it again ? It's half-way done, but no reason to spare the entire player to experience a bit of struggle, right ? Current day is missing ? Who cares ! "Yeah we know, it's missing. Stay tuned." Really ? Why don't remove you the entire current week while you're at it ? Right now, to learn what could learn before with a single look, you have to open the table : every, single, time.
CCP Antiquarian wrote: We used a utility called Color Oracle to help inform our color choices. We will take another look at the transparency, pursuant to the issues reported here (I play with 100% transparency enabled, personally, but testing has been conducted all along the slider).
Yeah i hope you paid it a lot, it's really a great tool. I can barely see the lines, there's no way to change anything, but hey : "animated graphs" (everybody disabled it in a heartbeat). Keep up the good work with colors, just like that Beta Starmap which has been a huge success, as everybody can concur.
1) Colors must be lighter and more saturated
2) We need the current day dot : now
3) We need the slide to work properly : being able to move it the entire way back without the other moving for no reason
4) we need to be able to set the default range for the slide as we wish
5) Left axis must be fixed
If you can't do that quickly, simple remove this feature until it's done. You didn't improve anything regarding functionalities, and the usability is down the drain.
On top of that, i can't prove it's related, but since this update Jita at peak time is even more unplayable that it used to be. Let us know if you have given up on this game, it will be easier to accept this degree of incompetence.
Best regards. |
Elange4
Nomad Technologies Sublime Machinery Inc.
9
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Posted - 2016.10.15 20:38:37 -
[27] - Quote
Indeed, the formerly mentioned color scheme, volume bar, and especially the default time scheme (30 days for every graph instead of being able to set a default time for every screen we look at)...
These are just a few of the things that need amends.
I also love to look at engaging color schemes - it makes the game more immersive for me, and the current wan grey is just a dud.
THAT said, tho, I love that the market is getting attention, so I must say thank you for your efforts, even if they seem to have missed the boat...
edit: also, IRL I trade a bit too, and candlesticks and MACD are quite useful. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
1546
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Posted - 2016.10.16 05:22:13 -
[28] - Quote
More feedback to be had in the latest episode of delonewolf's EVE-talk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzB3wEcEI40
For my part, I'm looking towards out-of-game tools for my market graphs now. Previously these were useful because of the limited nature of the in-game tools, but now they are becoming essential because the in-game tools are buggy, inaccurate, difficult to read, cumbersome and lacking in customisation options.
I understand the commercial realities of under-resourced development teams, but I don't think you do yourself any favors by squandering limited resources on degrading the functionality of existing features that were performing at an acceptable level.
This insistence on removing customisation features from the client is also extremely troubling, while it may lower the cost of implementing changes, it's also undermining the merits of the product as a whole. So you may have a cheaper product, but it's also a worse product. |
Rivr Luzade
Viziam Amarr Empire
2763
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Posted - 2016.10.16 18:23:52 -
[29] - Quote
The time frame slider should respect the selected time from the drop down menu in the Table view.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
157
|
Posted - 2016.10.17 00:34:35 -
[30] - Quote
Ok, after trying to use it a bit a short list of issues:
- left side - please normal multiply of 10 values, and using proper units. 0.23B doesn't cut in, neither does 12.53M; analogous remark towards values used for volume (let them be 10 based)
- moving vertically - just allow us to LMB click on the graph and move it up / down - currently the only way to workaround it is to mwheel it while keping mouse pointer above (to move it down) or below (to move it up) graph
- scaling vertically - far too slow; also think about using ctrl (and maybe alt) modifiers to speed it up (analogously to how we can isk up/down by 0.1 with ctrl)
- scaling vertically - once you do (2), keep graph in place regardless of where mouse pointer is
- negative prices on the Y axis can (should) be removed =)
- make more obvious that you can select period through dragging borders of sliding window
- setup initial scaling based on current selected period only
- swapping to table and back to graph resets graph - it should remember current scaling / position
- colors - uncustomizable and not exactly well chosen (too little contrast between those used for once)
- it would be nice if we could customize the graph (e.g. lines' thicknes/style/color, dots' size/color, etc.); dunno how much this new code allows - but that would be a nice feature
- transparency as mentioned earlier can be quite crippling - let us control or disable transparency for graph area
- animations - personally idc as long as we can turn it off (so don't remove that option)
Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl
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virm pasuul
The Congregation No Handlebars.
409
|
Posted - 2016.10.17 15:42:30 -
[31] - Quote
Was there are "What would you like from a new market tool?" post before doing all this?
If you ask us we will tell you what we like and don't like, and what we would like. Save us all a lot of time, effort, and tears.
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K Raz
Lone Star Warriors Yulai Federation
7
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Posted - 2016.10.19 09:51:04 -
[32] - Quote
Currently kicking myself for not having checked this out on sisi before it went live.
As of now, I can't use the market graph for 75% of the stuff i do, so the table is what i have to deal with.
- Negative values - Wat? I understand the baseline idea, but i want to visibly see where 0 is, the the negative values are just, well, silly.
- Slider lacks some key functionality. Default is 30 days, but the graph is still influenced by pricespikes 340 days ago making it flat with no functionality. Only the data within the slider should influence the visible graph scaling.
- Arbitrary left side number. I can deal with those, but i can't deal with them when i do a mouse hover. knowing that an item is at 0.19 billion isn't enough, granularity is needed. otherwise it's useless.
- Slider resets, it needs to remember what timescale i had selected when selecting a new item.
- Colours, it's a subjective thing, i don't mind them, but judging from other replies some costumization would be great.
It looks great, but it's totally useless.
To some of the other capsuleers in this thread, remember to get on testserver and give feedback, it's easier than ever, and the devs are very open to feedback before it goes live. |
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CCP Antiquarian
C C P C C P Alliance
194
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Posted - 2016.10.19 13:10:53 -
[33] - Quote
Update:
The slider now adjusts for all items. The default start range is still the last 30 days, but once you extend/reposition it, the graphs for all items will reflect that selection.
The current day is displayed on the graph.
"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."
@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.
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The Economist
Logically Consistent
45
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Posted - 2016.10.19 14:41:19 -
[34] - Quote
A lot of issues already detailed here.
The two things driving me nuts the most about it:
1. Scrolling/re-centering both being done by the mouse-wheel. It's just plain bad. Centering the info should be a click and drag affair, zooming alone with the mouse wheel would be ok...a shift-click and drag option could also be nice......or just a nice slider.
2. Y axis scale.
It's horrible and in a lot of cases utterly uninformative. For example: I search for an item that commonly sells for between 120 and 140mil. The y axis says 0.12, 0.13 and 0.14b....not a wonderful start but ok. I zoom in to get more specific pricing information thinking the y axis values would get more specific. After picking a spot and zooming in to the point that all graph points are so spread out that nothing actually shows on my screen at all aside from a cyan field and some vertical lines.....and the y axis is just one long list of '0.12b'. Pretty useless but could still be salvageable I think.....then find that mousing-over the values displayed on the y-axis or the graph points themselves, does nothing in the first case and in the second only displays the same useless and abbreviated price value as the y-axis.
Am I being an idiot and missing something obvious or is this design idiotic? I can't work it out. |
Elange4
Nomad Technologies Sublime Machinery Inc.
9
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Posted - 2016.10.20 03:07:15 -
[35] - Quote
Thanks for the default time effort CCP Antiquarian and team...
I'd like to point out tho, a bug. If you visit an item that is new to the game, Like Blood Raider Accelerators, after you have set your default graph, it goes to the few days that has been listed, and defaults to it every time in every search afterwards.
In this case for Instance, I went to Improved Blue Pill and it only shows two days from about a year ago, without having to reset the graph all over again, and set it back to the recent period too, not only my pre-Blood Raider search parameters of 100 days. |
Fanfin Malukker
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 18:56:22 -
[36] - Quote
Elange4 wrote:Thanks for the default time effort CCP Antiquarian and team...
I'd like to point out tho, a bug. If you visit an item that is new to the game, Like Blood Raider Accelerators, after you have set your default graph, it goes to the few days that has been listed, and defaults to it every time in every search afterwards.
In this case for Instance, I went to Improved Blue Pill and it only shows two days from about a year ago, without having to reset the graph all over again, and set it back to the recent period too, not only my pre-Blood Raider search parameters of 100 days.
I was just about to report exactly the same thing! (And it was even worse a day or so ago, when there was zero history for some of those items!)
Fanfin. |
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CCP Antiquarian
C C P C C P Alliance
195
|
Posted - 2016.10.21 13:02:04 -
[37] - Quote
Elange/Fanfin,
Would one of you F12 and bug report that issue with screen grabs of the graph and the region you are in? (logs will also automatically attach, which is beneficial).
I've got a graphic programmer working on the more egregious issues and optimizing graph performance overall and it helps to provide very specific information to get a fix.
"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."
@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.
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Uther Moldune
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.21 13:12:10 -
[38] - Quote
Could we please have a way to set the Y-Axis upper and lower bounds? There are some cases where some Yahoo bought an item for WAY more than it is ever worth and this throws off the entire graph. If an item sells between 18m and 30mil I don't seem to have a way to set that as my upper and lower bounds because the outlier has thrown off the scale and the graph is flat and unreadable no matter how much scrolling I do with the mouse wheel. |
Black Romero
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Ditanian Alliance
16
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Posted - 2016.10.23 04:09:49 -
[39] - Quote
CCP Antiquarian wrote:Update:
The slider now adjusts for all items. The default start range is still the last 30 days, but once you extend/reposition it, the graphs for all items will reflect that selection.
The current day is displayed on the graph.
THANK YOU |
Elange4
Nomad Technologies Sublime Machinery Inc.
11
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Posted - 2016.10.25 08:55:45 -
[40] - Quote
Antiquarian, so you still need a screenshot? I must admit I just logged on now for the first time in three days - Civilization VI has taken ALL of my attention, but I just finished my first game :)
I'll try and replicate it in any case now and see if I can send a bug report if I can...
-- Elange
Update: it still functioned as reported in my previous thread, so I F12'd and screenshotted a bug report for you Antiquarian, with your name in the Title... |
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CCP Antiquarian
C C P C C P Alliance
200
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Posted - 2016.10.25 10:14:54 -
[41] - Quote
Thanks, Elange4! I'll take a look today.
"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."
@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.
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Sky Marshal
Core Industry. Circle-Of-Two
140
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Posted - 2016.10.29 15:55:06 -
[42] - Quote
Hello,
After few weeks, I must say that this new iteration is not as great that I thought. In fact, it is less practical and confusing.
First, as previous posters said, the negative ISK part of the axis is useless and should be removed. But more importantly, I have hard time to use it properly because of the way the graphs are displayed. An exemple with this screenshot of an officer item (Core X-Type Armor Thermal Hardener) http://imgur.com/DgBXGmQ
At left, it is what the game show, without any modification apart the timeframe and date. On first spot, the main graph gives the impression that this item don't have any real fluctuations of price, but I can see that it is contradictory with the second graph below and with the ISK axis. Still, the first impression is that the price is going down SLOWLY because the game included the anomaly of 2016-01-21 (420 M).
After zooming a few, and so removing the influence of the anomaly, I get what the game SHOULD show me in the first place. Obviously, I won't have the same analysis than before. Yes, the price is going down but there are many severe price fluctuations and so I have to adapt from them (or take advantage of, whatever).
The right exemple is useful, the left one is useless. And this is only one exemple, there are many situations like this all the time and so I begin to avoid using the market graph because the displayed informations are confusing.
You need to make sure that the player get something closer of the right exemple. |
Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
158
|
Posted - 2016.10.30 09:14:51 -
[43] - Quote
So are any (and which ones) of the issues pointed out in this thread getting addressed (with target date of Ascension release in particular) ?
Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl
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CCP Antiquarian
C C P C C P Alliance
200
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Posted - 2016.10.30 18:14:26 -
[44] - Quote
Hey Soltys,
In November users will see a Price History graph optimization/performance upgrade (present on Singularity right now), but no core changes to the feature.
I did manage to get a programmer to agree to tackle a number of the other pain points, though, so those changes are underway and should be rolling out with the release following Ascension provided things go as planned. We focused on the most common bug reports and indications of difficulty/confusion in use.
Some intended inclusions are:
- an option to automatically adjust the graph and volume bar heights to the maximums of the selected area
- the addition of clicking and panning within the graph
- an autofocus/reset zoom button
- More sensible y-axis labels
- deactivation of the display of negative numbers (user will still be able to pan/zoom and move the zero line to whatever height they like)
The changes listed should appear on the test server about a week after Ascension deploys to Tranquility. Please feel free to continue to comment in this thread once you've taken a look.
"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."
@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.
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Mister Ripley
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
241
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Posted - 2016.10.31 17:08:27 -
[45] - Quote
Can you please just make it not jump in the timeline like crazy and reset the timeframe all the time? |
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CCP Antiquarian
C C P C C P Alliance
201
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Posted - 2016.10.31 21:02:38 -
[46] - Quote
Mister Ripley wrote:Can you please just make it not jump in the timeline like crazy and reset the timeframe all the time?
I don't understand your complaint, but yes. Unequivocally it will not jump crazily, and neither will it loop through infinite resets.
"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."
@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3978
|
Posted - 2016.10.31 22:29:03 -
[47] - Quote
CCP Antiquarian wrote:Mister Ripley wrote:Can you please just make it not jump in the timeline like crazy and reset the timeframe all the time? I don't understand your complaint, but yes. Unequivocally it will not jump crazily, and neither will it loop through infinite resets. Not sure either, except: If I set the time-frame to 1 year, then switch to a different commodity, the time-frame resets to some shorter, default time. It does not stay on one year.
It would be handy if it remembered the time window I had set.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
158
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Posted - 2016.11.01 01:31:59 -
[48] - Quote
CCP Antiquarian wrote:Hey Soltys, - snip -
Fair enough, let's wait for the new iteration then.
For the record, any chance for the small things mentioned earlier ?
- Wallet & Corporate Wallet -> Transactions: LMB double click is not defined on those, it would be great (and logical) if it called market details simiarly to orders tab
- Orders: both buy (no action defined on LMB double click) and sell (calls 'buy' dialog) - it would make more sense if double click called 'modify order' dialog for own orders
- 'Mark corporation order': analogous to 'Mark my orders' but showing corporation orders (for members with 'trader' role) with e.g. lighter blue background; this would be amazing for any trader operating as a corporation with multiple traders intersecting the same hub.
Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
1552
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Posted - 2016.11.01 05:46:14 -
[49] - Quote
CCP Antiquarian wrote:Mister Ripley wrote:Can you please just make it not jump in the timeline like crazy and reset the timeframe all the time? I don't understand your complaint, but yes. Unequivocally it will not jump crazily, and neither will it loop through infinite resets. That fix isn't mentioned in your list of inclusions, so are you sure that it will be fixed or are you just being sarcastic? |
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CCP Antiquarian
C C P C C P Alliance
201
|
Posted - 2016.11.01 10:31:09 -
[50] - Quote
Soltys - We are only touching the price history graph with this feature. The other stuff you mention would be more up Karkur's alley than ours, but I can mention this thread to her.
Bad Bobby - I wasn't being sarcastic, but also not entirely delicate in my response for which I apologize (not sarcastically). The behavior described by Mister Ripley and/or Vincent Athena isn't what's happening, so it won't be present. A pending defect that vaguely resembles the described effect (reproducible with items that have no price history or limited price history) will also not be present in the post-Ascension release.
"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."
@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.
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The Economist
Logically Consistent
46
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Posted - 2016.11.01 11:20:27 -
[51] - Quote
CCP Antiquarian wrote:Hey Soltys, In November users will see a Price History graph optimization/performance upgrade (present on Singularity right now), but no core changes to the feature. I did manage to get a programmer to agree to tackle a number of the other pain points, though, so those changes are underway and should be rolling out with the release following Ascension provided things go as planned. We focused on the most common bug reports and indications of difficulty/confusion in use. Some intended inclusions are:
- an option to automatically adjust the graph and volume bar heights to the maximums of the selected area
- the addition of clicking and panning within the graph
- an autofocus/reset zoom button
- More sensible y-axis labels
- deactivation of the display of negative numbers (users will still be able to pan/zoom and move the zero line to whatever height they like)
The changes listed should appear on the test server about a week after Ascension deploys to Tranquility. Please feel free to continue to comment in this thread once you've taken a look.
Thank you! <3 |
Mister Ripley
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
241
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Posted - 2016.11.01 12:59:41 -
[52] - Quote
CCP Antiquarian wrote:Soltys - We are only touching the price history graph with this feature. The other stuff you mention would be more up Karkur's alley than ours, but I can mention this thread to her.
Bad Bobby - I wasn't being sarcastic, but also not entirely compassionate in my response for which I apologize (not sarcastically). The behavior described by Mister Ripley and/or Vincent Athena isn't what's happening so it won't be present, but a pending defect that vaguely resembles the described effect (reproducible with items that have no price history or limited price history) will also not be present in the post-Ascension release. I'm not sure if it's my lacking English skills or just bad wording, but I can't comprehend what you are saying. The behaviour we described is what is happening.
Do you mean the defect that causes the time frame to reset to default, when viewing an item with a shorter price history and the following behaviour of setting this default time frame somewhere in the middle of the available price history when viewing another item, will be fixed? |
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CCP Antiquarian
C C P C C P Alliance
202
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Posted - 2016.11.01 14:25:51 -
[53] - Quote
Hey Mister Ripley,
Yes, the defect regarding items with no history/short histories will be fixed in the release following Ascension.
The interim work around continues to be manual readjustment of the focus slider after viewing an item with no price history.
Your English is fine, by the way. I was being a tad overly pedantic about the use of the idiomatic expressions "like crazy" and "all the time."
"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."
@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.
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CCP Antiquarian
C C P C C P Alliance
202
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Posted - 2016.11.01 16:26:29 -
[54] - Quote
Soltys! Karkur says:
"Post to the LT thread..."
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=275894
"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."
@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.
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Mister Ripley
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
241
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Posted - 2016.11.01 18:13:39 -
[55] - Quote
CCP Antiquarian wrote:Hey Mister Ripley,
Yes, the defect regarding items with no history/short histories will be fixed in the release following Ascension.
The interim work around continues to be manual readjustment of the focus slider after viewing an item with no price history.
Your English is fine, by the way. I was being a tad overly pedantic about the use of the idiomatic expressions "like crazy" and "all the time." Thank you very much |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
1552
|
Posted - 2016.11.01 19:49:43 -
[56] - Quote
CCP Antiquarian wrote:Bad Bobby - I wasn't being sarcastic, but also not entirely compassionate in my response for which I apologize (not sarcastically). The behavior described by Mister Ripley and/or Vincent Athena isn't what's happening so it won't be present, but a pending defect that vaguely resembles the described effect (reproducible with items that have no price history or limited price history) will also not be present in the post-Ascension release. Good, I'm glad that is getting fixed.
I also appreciate your apology. But being unprofessional and apologizing for it, is not the same as not being unprofessional in the first place. Maybe a thread such as this one, where paying customers are complaining about your under performance, is not the correct venue for such behaviour? |
The Economist
Logically Consistent
46
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Posted - 2016.11.01 21:43:14 -
[57] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote: I also appreciate your apology. But being unprofessional and apologizing for it, is not the same as not being unprofessional in the first place. Maybe a thread such as this one, where paying customers are complaining about your under performance, is not the correct venue for such behaviour?
Maybe it's also not the correct venue for passive aggressive pedantry.
..then again... |
Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
158
|
Posted - 2016.11.01 21:56:59 -
[58] - Quote
Oh noes, that thread is like ... /dev/null
But allright.
Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl
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CCP Antiquarian
C C P C C P Alliance
203
|
Posted - 2016.11.01 22:02:02 -
[59] - Quote
The Economist after my own heart!
Still I welcome all aggression, passive or otherwise. I hope all of us feel free to express ourselves here directly and frankly about current features and upcoming iteration. It's why the Technology and Research Center exists and I'm happy to have you all here commenting.
I will continue to update as information becomes available. I will also continue to do my best to encourage positive changes to the price history graph.
"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."
@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.
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CCP Antiquarian
C C P C C P Alliance
203
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Posted - 2016.11.01 22:03:37 -
[60] - Quote
Soltys, I'll also poke the QAs over there.
"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."
@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
1552
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Posted - 2016.11.02 00:53:41 -
[61] - Quote
The Economist wrote:Bad Bobby wrote: I also appreciate your apology. But being unprofessional and apologizing for it, is not the same as not being unprofessional in the first place. Maybe a thread such as this one, where paying customers are complaining about your under performance, is not the correct venue for such behaviour?
Maybe it's also not the correct venue for passive aggressive pedantry. Yes, that's what I was saying. |
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
19008
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Posted - 2016.11.04 17:40:54 -
[62] - Quote
Just shoot them in the face, Antiquarian, they are used to it. As for the changes to the graph, i dont see it as so much important. Table is a lot more informative, graph is only for a quick assesment for me.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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CCP Antiquarian
C C P C C P Alliance
203
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Posted - 2016.11.05 11:11:56 -
[63] - Quote
I try to avoid face-shooting whenever possible, Nana. But I do appreciate the advice, and you chiming in on this forum. More voices make a fuller chorus.
I know not everyone uses the price history graph, but it is important that it be useful and functional for those who do.
"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."
@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.
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Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
158
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Posted - 2016.11.06 01:09:45 -
[64] - Quote
CCP Antiquarian wrote:Soltys, I'll also poke the QAs over there.
Allright, those 3 points posted here.
Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
1553
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Posted - 2016.11.06 03:31:08 -
[65] - Quote
CCP Antiquarian wrote:I know not everyone uses the price history graph, but it is important that it be useful and functional for those who do. But not important enough that you moved it to TQ before it was functional? |
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
441
|
Posted - 2016.11.06 07:20:50 -
[66] - Quote
CCP Antiquarian wrote:Quote:2. I want to have for example a 3 month timeframe for every item in market. How? Right now, you'll have to adjust them manually, but the Market should remember your choice for each item.
Please make an option in the settings toggle; "keep same time-frame for all items in market", just like with inventory filters.
CCP Antiquarian wrote:Update:
The slider now adjusts for all items. The default start range is still the last 30 days, but once you extend/reposition it, the graphs for all items will reflect that selection.
The current day is displayed on the graph.
Mmmm, seems you did already
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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CCP Antiquarian
C C P C C P Alliance
206
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Posted - 2016.11.06 13:32:30 -
[67] - Quote
TheSmokingHertog: always good to have more input, so thanks for popping by! Changes are coming for this feature so do get ready to check them out on Singularity. The "jumping" is a result of new/limited history items, but there is a fix underway for that specific bug. Switching between any other items, the graph functions as you would expect.
Soltys: Karkur and I are about to spend 20-some hours together on planes headed for EVE Down Under, so I will take a bit of time to make sure she has seen your input. All bug reports may not be defects, but some of your issues may indicate a need for further iteration/development. EVE is an evolving beast, and you could be the mutagen that leads to a selected trait, analogically speaking.
Bad Bobby: Ping me the specific bug report number for your price history graph being nonfunctional. I will check it out. All of the reports identifying ways that the graph does not work as intended have been elevated to defect status or addressed in feature iteration but it is possible that you have something valuable to contribute.
Everyone: CCP thrives by taking player feedback into account and this is the perfect place for that feedback. Thanks again for chiming in!
"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."
@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.
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Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
158
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Posted - 2016.11.07 01:00:14 -
[68] - Quote
CCP Antiquarian wrote:Soltys: Karkur and I are about to spend 20-some hours together on planes headed for EVE Down Under, so I will take a bit of time to make sure she has seen your input. All bug reports may not be defects, but some of your issues may indicate a need for further iteration/development. EVE is an evolving beast, and you could be the mutagen that leads to a selected trait, analogically speaking.
TBH, I wouldn't mind using that "opportunity" to smuggle few other (not market related) suggestions along the way =)
Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
1554
|
Posted - 2016.11.07 03:18:57 -
[69] - Quote
CCP Antiquarian wrote:Bad Bobby: Ping me the specific bug report number for your price history graph being nonfunctional. I will check it out. All of the reports identifying ways that the graph does not work as intended have been elevated to defect status or addressed in feature iteration but it is possible that you have something valuable to contribute. I think you have misread this. I'm not a volunteer tester. I'm a customer complaining about the shortcomings of your performance and the poor judgement of tone in your posting. Since my complaints are falling on stony ground, I'll waste no more of my time on them.
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CCP Antiquarian
C C P C C P Alliance
207
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Posted - 2016.11.07 10:11:49 -
[70] - Quote
For anyone reading to catch news or ask questions about the Market Graphs, I will continue to post here as information becomes available. At last update on our internal test environment (pre-pre-Singularity):
- The dynamic y-axis option is functional, but needs a bit more attention.
- The hard coded English labels on the tooltip text for the blue volume bars has been submitted for localization.
- The Min/Max line has been added to the legend (which remains hide-able).
- The "Reset View" button, which appears after zooming or panning, has been moved to the upper left-hand corner.
- Automatic focus slider resizing has been corrected, but requires considerable testing.
Players not seeking to report issues (bugs) with the Market Graphs feature but finding themselves in need of further support and formal interaction with CCP including but not limited to the filing of complaints regarding service may submit support tickets at the language-specific sites listed below. Suspicion of developer misconduct can be reported to Internal Affairs via email or petition. The appropriate email address is [email protected] for such reports.
https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us https://support.eveonline.com/hc/de https://support.eveonline.com/hc/fr https://support.eveonline.com/hc/ja https://support.eveonline.com/hc/ru
"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."
@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
1578
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Posted - 2016.11.07 10:34:50 -
[71] - Quote
I think that would be a somewhat excessive reaction and I would expect officially reporting you for being uncooperative would (and should) be responded to with limited sympathy.
Maybe a middle ground where you actually answer the questions asked in a straightforward manner would be more reasonable?
After all, my comments were purely an attempt to gain information about the process that led to putting these bugs on the live server.
In any case, I can see we're not going to get anywhere here. |
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
408
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Posted - 2016.11.07 13:42:12 -
[72] - Quote
Dev time is a limited resource. CCP Antiquarian is doing their best to communicate with the players to address critical issues. No matter how well tested something is there will be bugs. Please stop the hostile posting towards the Devs, especially when they are trying to address concerns you my have.
31. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.
CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties.
Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Evemails.
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Aaril
Interstellar Consulting Group
39
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Posted - 2016.11.07 21:27:25 -
[73] - Quote
The new graphs I find frustrating, as they always reset to the default timescale. Within a single session it remembers my setting, but it is very annoying having to always adjust this.
Why not give us a drop down with the same presets as before for defaults? I like quickly being about to select different exact time frames, and the dragging a window is just not the same.
Also...the colors. PLEASE do something about the dark on dark color scheme. The current contrast between each component is not very good. |
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
441
|
Posted - 2016.11.08 08:34:26 -
[74] - Quote
Aaril wrote:The new graphs I find frustrating, as they always reset to the default timescale. Within a single session it remembers my setting, but it is very annoying having to always adjust this.
Why not give us a drop down with the same presets as before for defaults? I like quickly being about to select different exact time frames, and the dragging a window is just not the same.
Also...the colors. PLEASE do something about the dark on dark color scheme. The current contrast between each component is not very good.
+1
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Vickers Secretary
Weyland Inc.
4
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Posted - 2016.11.11 07:57:06 -
[75] - Quote
The colors are indeed a bit problematic, especially when using the market on cheap monitors or on a laptop in daylight conditions. Besides that, it looks really nice. Just a little bit too dark / not enough contrast.
One thing that bothers me: Sometimes the market graph doesn't shop up at all - it just shows a completely blank market window. It happens on items without a market history in citadels / regions and randomly on other items as well. |
Black Romero
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Ditanian Alliance
17
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Posted - 2016.11.11 19:51:54 -
[76] - Quote
Thanks for the updates CCP Antiquarian! Appreciate the dev hours.
My gripe still though.
1) I can't get the time frame of the graph (X axis) to stay 365 days! What am I doing wrong here? bug? I thought this had been fixed? Can we not have a default for this?
2) How do we set a default also to get rid of Negative ISK values on the Y axis?
3) How do I change the cost slider on the Y axis to millions instead of decimal Billions. Why the change? Millions is so much more in line with the price of things than billions. (i.e. the number of items in game that cost in the millions versus Billions!) It makes no sense! |
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CCP Antiquarian
C C P C C P Alliance
208
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Posted - 2016.11.12 19:12:29 -
[77] - Quote
Hey, Black Romero. My Saturday nights are your Saturday nights.
All three of your points ("gripes" seems negative) are addressed in the post-Ascension release which will hit Singularity on or around the 22nd of November.
Aaril, Vickers Secretary, and TheSmokingHertog:
I have a conversation planned with the UI programmer about the colors. I don't know how that will ultimately play out, but my hope is to reach a conclusion that satisfies the largest number of players from the most varied distribution of playstyles on the widest range of hardware in the most disparate spread of environments.
As for the items with no graph, that is the case for items with no history, but I've not seen it happen on other items. If you get it again, would you be willing to hit f12 and ping me a bugreport? (you are of course under no obligation to do that, it would just be helpful in isolating and correcting the problem).
"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."
@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.
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The Economist
Logically Consistent
47
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Posted - 2016.11.12 21:48:39 -
[78] - Quote
Idea for somewhere down the road:
Would be nice to get separate price history lists and graphs for sell order and buy orders (unless i'm not seeing something) |
virm pasuul
The Congregation No Handlebars.
413
|
Posted - 2016.11.17 15:08:57 -
[79] - Quote
Hey thanks CCP both for tackling the issues and also for letting us know that it's being worked on. It's always easier to put up with something annoying when you know a fix is in the works.
Given this is probably an ongoing work in progress I'd like to add some fine detail feedback. I apologise in advance if this is already covered by the work that's been done.
For me there are two distinct issues with the y axis scaling and labeling. This feedback is in the hope that both get fixed.
The first being the size of jump chosen between marks on the y axis. The auto scaler just makes sure they are even - although even this becomes an issue when the digits are also scaled and rounded. I was looking at market charts today where my points were between graph lines chosen at wierd points. Say it fell between mark xx.9 lower and mark yy.6 higher, so now I have to work out in my head that the gap represents a jump of 0.7 and then I have to guess where on a scale of 0.7 the data point lies between the two, which means more maths because my head works in units of 10, but now in my head I have to rescale that by a factor of 0.7. Then I have to take this and add it back to the original xx.9 marker on the graph. That's a whole ton of mental maths. This goes against the whole point of a graph being an easy visualization of data. With a factor of 10 based scaling we can look and instantly know. With random scaling the amount of math required makes a graph less useful than the page of raw data.
Secondly the numbers in the 100s million range are terrible. On the y axis. 0.17B is terrible waste of screen space. The 0 tells me nothing and needs a full stop after. Of 3 1/2 characters used to convey info 1 1/2 are wasted, and do nothing but chew up characters that could be used to pass on information. 166M is 1/2 a character less and give me more information. Also notice that extra character reduces the rounding error too 0.17 became 166 giving higher accuracy with less characters. Please bring this back into the realms of the sensible. Simple solution. If any number starts "0." then drop that range down to the next range before displaying. I have not checked other ranges where it transitions. e.g. 100s of thousands to millions. Every range transition should be sanity checked.
Same for data points on the graph. I can't work out their values because of the scaling and rounding, so I hover over them. One good point - hovering over them brings up info, without needing to click, good stuff thanks :) The date is there and the value beneath. The data point uses exactly the same number/text formatting function as the y axis, so it's practically useless for all the reasons right above. There's a ton of space, as much space as the date takes up, but it is not used. It could be used, it's currently blank. Please give us meaningful data in here. Less rounding, less guessing, more info please. It's not rocket science, well actually........
I do appreciate CCP as a whole, how busy you guys are with the latest release, and all the cool stuff. But I do genuinely wonder how this sort of stuff ends up in game without someone at CCP going "wtf???" when they see it. I can assume the person who did the new market graph doesn't actually use the market graph in game much themselves, because no way someone who uses it regularly would think it was anything less than a giant step backwards. Run stuff past people who use it.
It's clear someone(s) has put a lot of time and effort into the market history revamp, and it's sad that there's so much negative feedback about it someone's effort. I'd be very disheartened if it was me. I feel sad myself for pooping on someone's parade. But this sort of stuff does need checking and review please. This would have been released to a lot of praise if it had been done properly.
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virm pasuul
The Congregation No Handlebars.
414
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Posted - 2016.11.20 22:45:13 -
[80] - Quote
additional feedback
Go to Jita Choose Pyerite or Tritanium - look at the history graph It's a flat line scroll the mouse wheel to try and expand the detail, the straight line just moves up and down the screen, you don't get to see any detail Scroll up a lot and the Y axis scale just goes crazy because the actual price price is so close to zero you just end up looking at random numbers on the Y axis at the moment Tritanium is going for close to 228 ISK per unit according to the graph defaults
The lines are so flat you can see no detail as to how the price is and has been trending. It's just a flat line. All due to the Y axis scaling I assume.
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virm pasuul
The Congregation No Handlebars.
414
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Posted - 2016.11.20 22:47:36 -
[81] - Quote
Zydrine in Jita Try and scroll the graph to see some detail and the line just disappears off the bottom of the graph window.
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CCP Antiquarian
C C P C C P Alliance
208
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 12:04:28 -
[82] - Quote
Anyone had a look on Sisi recently? Tried out the settings and features?
Click and Pan New Y-axis numbers Dynamic scaling Relocated reset button Optimized performance Focus window memory across sessions
I just got back from Australia and am just catching up on all the news, but what's on Sisi right now is hitting TQ on Tuesday, I believe.
"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."
@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.
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TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
443
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 16:28:24 -
[83] - Quote
How hard would it be to add a field that is letting me set a hard price level in the graph? Like a "red line".
Say I want to monitor Antimatter Charge S market based on 10ISK as price. When I set a red line on 10ISK, I could then see how the market is behaving compared to my 10ISK line.
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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CCP Antiquarian
C C P C C P Alliance
209
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 14:11:23 -
[84] - Quote
Custom redline, eh?
Adding fields can be a hassle with the limited real estate here, but I'll hit up the programmer and see what he says.
"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."
@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.
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Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
166
|
Posted - 2016.12.10 17:09:38 -
[85] - Quote
CCP Antiquarian wrote:Anyone had a look on Sisi recently? Tried out the settings and features?
Click and Pan New Y-axis numbers Dynamic scaling Relocated reset button Optimized performance Focus window memory across sessions
I just got back from Australia and am just catching up on all the news, but what's on Sisi right now is hitting TQ on Tuesday, I believe.
This is quite an improvement ! Really much better.
Two things though:
- There is no memory. If I carefully scale/pan graph for some item, it's immediately gone if I switch to 'Show Table' and back again to 'Show Graph'. It would be nice for that to persist at least if we don't switch to another item. If it persisted across other items, even better.
- When we move cursor over graph's median dots, it would be nice if it also showed low and high prices as well in tooltips, eg something like:
-date- low - (yellow+bold)med - high
instead of just
-date- med
Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl
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Noene Drops
Deep Chain Diving
23
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Posted - 2016.12.13 12:46:33 -
[86] - Quote
The updates rolled out on TQ look great, the market window works so much smoother now. Awesome!
But there's one problem that still makes it weird to use, and that's Y axis labelling system. I've re-read the thread and it was mentioned one or two times before, but hasn't been addressed yet.
In my opinion, values on Y axis feel weird because of the way we as humans talk about the prices IRL. For example, we don't tell each other "hey i've got a really cheap deal on a Tengu for zero point fifteen bil", yet that's exactly what we see in the market graph: http://i.imgur.com/MLklqhh.png. So generally we talk about billions in price when the price exceeds a billion, and we talk about millions when it's below a bil; same goes for Ks or Ts, or at least that's my impression on how people generally talk about prices.
TL;DR GÇö if only you could change Y axis labelling to something like this http://i.imgur.com/3yJGOBv.png that would make it far more readable than now.
P.S. The volume chart in the bottom doesn't need fractions (because volumes aren't fractional) so you might round them next release :D |
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
645
|
Posted - 2016.12.22 20:09:50 -
[87] - Quote
moving this back to the front page
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
171
|
Posted - 2016.12.22 23:06:02 -
[88] - Quote
One more thing, which was mentioned earlier as well - let it scale initially based on prices in selected period, instead of the whole year (or add an option to select one or the other).
Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl
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TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
445
|
Posted - 2016.12.23 15:45:10 -
[89] - Quote
CCP Antiquarian wrote:Custom redline, eh?
Adding fields can be a hassle with the limited real estate here, but I'll hit up the programmer and see what he says.
How is my custom red line doing? Maybe put the info field in the market quick bar as a label. You can already make a note in the quick bar on an item. I already have the price of each of my sale items on them.
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Caleb Ayrania
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
324
|
Posted - 2016.12.28 04:21:48 -
[90] - Quote
I would like to see a right click export as png/jpeg and a copy link to chat..
Ideally the graph should show what, where and when somewhere graphically a bit better for export purposes ofc. Which is also a nice thing for current more clunky screenshot grabbing..
Oh and in a near future would be really nice to be able to have more items showing in ONE graph window, so a detach and drag drop items to add more things in one graph would be pretty amazing..
Its related a lot to my wish for option to open and share market details, without live refresh and link them and have more than one open at the time.. So not with browsing, or live refresh, but just the market "quote"..
This would be a nice step towards adding the same global/universal market benefit that out of game 3rd party tools give, without breaking the servers or the "fog of war".. |
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Soltys
Brutor tribe Minmatar Republic
171
|
Posted - 2016.12.31 00:29:57 -
[91] - Quote
Was mentioned earlier as well:
https://aww.moe/w6tcu5.jpg
Just use millions where appropriate, billions where appropriate and so on. In picture above "0." is a waste of perfectly useful 2 characters.
Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl
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