Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Goe Rilla
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 11:35:02 -
[1] - Quote
So I decided to engage a small/medium fleet of frigs in my VNI. I knew I would be sacrificing it but taking a few along with me at least and I dare say a good enough trade for choosing to suicide my ship to a blob.
How did that work out ?
You guessed it, not a single way to do jackshit, due to that odd insta-permajam griffin sitting way beyond.
So, MANY are with me here in thinking that enough is enough. An effective counter to ECM needs to happen, in the same run as Off-grid boosting, or else any solo/smaller roaming potential this game has will be flying out the window soon, once all the newbies coming November realize it's no use to undock if you're just gunna get the jam ...
Solid ideas worth mentioning are :
1.Make only the source jam ship lockable. So to at least be able to defend yourself...
2. Make it so it reduces Max Lockable targets to 1 instead of 0.
Any other mention it here, and I'll add them to the list.
Hopefully this time CCP listens.
Thanks |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3412
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 12:00:33 -
[2] - Quote
What if they made a module to make it harder to jam a player. They could call it Electronic Counter Counter Measures. Or E.C.C.M. for short.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
|
Eriana Stenory
Frying Blacksmiths
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 12:08:48 -
[3] - Quote
Use sensor booster with ECCM Scripts, you'll get more chance to resist ECM. That's what they are made for, but since nobody want to use SEBO to protect against ECM, they all cry about ECM, because they made the choice not to use SEBO.
And, since ECM is chance based, we can say you are out of luck |
GsyBoy
Flames of the Phoenix
19
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 12:25:05 -
[4] - Quote
Understand the frustration, have been jammed out when soloing in a big ship before however the identifiers and counters are there and in a way more identifiable then with neuts/TD, etc that can have the same effect as being jammed and can be fit on any ship effectively (limited dps vs none is pretty much the same). Logi is an arse also but part of the game. The fact is these have even less counters but are more normally addressed with TE's, TC's Cap batterys, Cap boosters, etc.
Key identifiers and counters. Specific ships have distance/strength bonus. Drones ECCM (which is now coolly wrapped into sensor booster module) Distance Implants Specific skills to increase your ship strength Certain ships have high resistance to ECM
While frustrating I do feel that an individual in a gang in a specific ship like a griffin (which is glass compared to you BS) should be able to jam you, it is the ship role.
Whether the bonuses to these ships is too high, that is debatable I suppose but for a solo player losing to a ECM backed gang without firing a shot unfortunately is just part of the solo life.
|
Goe Rilla
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 12:34:05 -
[5] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:What if they made a module to make it harder to jam a player. They could call it Electronic Counter Counter Measures. Or E.C.C.M. for short.
How about
C.O.C.K
in your
A.S.S |
Goe Rilla
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 12:49:41 -
[6] - Quote
GsyBoy wrote:Understand the frustration, have been jammed out when soloing in a big ship before however the identifiers and counters are there and in a way more identifiable then with neuts/TD, etc that can have the same effect as being jammed and can be fit on any ship effectively (limited dps vs none is pretty much the same). Logi is an arse also but part of the game. The fact is these have even less counters but are more normally addressed with TE's, TC's Cap batterys, Cap boosters, etc.
Key identifiers and counters. Specific ships have distance/strength bonus. Drones ECCM (which is now coolly wrapped into sensor booster module) Distance Implants Specific skills to increase your ship strength Certain ships have high resistance to ECM
While frustrating I do feel that an individual in a gang in a specific ship like a griffin (which is glass compared to you BS) should be able to jam you, it is the ship role.
Whether the bonuses to these ships is too high, that is debatable I suppose but for a solo player losing to a ECM backed gang without firing a shot unfortunately is just part of the solo life.
Drones are indeed a good deterrant, the only good one imo, unless, the ECM ship sits comfortably out of drone range, and as it is the case most the time... or you happen to like flying gunboats...
Having to sacrifice on shiptype, tanking, dps, slots to increase drone range just for that specific situation, or use ECCM modules, or be forced into using any modules for it, isn't really much of an efficient argument to bring for countering ECM when roaming around against gang, and even with all the specific skills trained up. It all dont matter much as the ECM ship bonuses and stackings are still way too powerful to be able to make a difference.
So they lose nothing, and you lose a ship worth 10x more and willing to sacrifice for a total return of 0.
It's still too easy. While the Counter options you have in return only cripple you as a target, theres next to nothing on their end they could feel threatened with.
If one thing could be twaeked to keep the ECM fanbois happy would the timers, a 10sec max roof for all ECMs would be a start... |
Goe Rilla
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 13:12:39 -
[7] - Quote
Eriana Stenory wrote:Use sensor booster with ECCM Scripts, you'll get more chance to resist ECM. That's what they are made for, but since nobody want to use SEBO to protect against ECM, they all cry about ECM, because they made the choice not to use SEBO. And, since ECM is chance based, we can say you are out of luck
Oh sure.
Then I'll resort having to armortank a ship meant for shields just because I still need the medslots required for pvp ?
No, again being forced to fit anything for the sole likelihood of an ECM boat on the field is STUPID, a plainly uncreative and lazy way of dealing with the counter problem. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3412
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 13:16:49 -
[8] - Quote
Goe Rilla wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:What if they made a module to make it harder to jam a player. They could call it Electronic Counter Counter Measures. Or E.C.C.M. for short. How about C.O.C.K in your A.S.S Only if you whisper sweet nothings in my ear and buy me dinner first.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
|
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4832
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 13:59:57 -
[9] - Quote
Please explain why you feel ECM should be nerfed into uselessness, when the end result would be a frigate sitting that far out with sensor damps on you instead? |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26942
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 14:05:04 -
[10] - Quote
Goe Rilla wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:What if they made a module to make it harder to jam a player. They could call it Electronic Counter Counter Measures. Or E.C.C.M. for short. How about C.O.C.K in your A.S.S The comment about ECCM is completely valid, as is the one about a SEBO.
Try acting your age and not your shoe size.
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
|
|
Goe Rilla
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 14:37:20 -
[11] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Goe Rilla wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:What if they made a module to make it harder to jam a player. They could call it Electronic Counter Counter Measures. Or E.C.C.M. for short. How about C.O.C.K in your A.S.S The comment about ECCM is completely valid, as is the one about a SEBO. Try acting your age and not your shoe size. Quote:Eriana Stenory wrote:Use sensor booster with ECCM Scripts, you'll get more chance to resist ECM. That's what they are made for, but since nobody want to use SEBO to protect against ECM, they all cry about ECM, because they made the choice not to use SEBO. And, since ECM is chance based, we can say you are out of luck Oh sure. Then I'll resort having to armortank a ship meant for shields just because I still need the medslots required for pvp ? No, again being forced to fit anything for the sole likelihood of an ECM boat on the field is STUPID, a plainly uncreative and lazy way of dealing with the counter problem. The VNI is more suited to armour tanking than shield tanking, look at raw hp difference between shields and armour, and then the number of lows compared to the mids. You can shield tank it, but for PvP the holy trinity of prop mod, warp disruptor/scram and web will eat most of the mids.
Ok, perhaps you didnt catch on my sarcasm thre about having to armortank a shield ship precisely to maintain the holy trinity of med slots for pvp, hence sacrificing a medslot for a sebo or eccm on an armorship as an everytime undocking rule, is simply unthinkable, and borderline ******** CounterECM design ideas. |
Goe Rilla
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 14:42:52 -
[12] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Please explain why you feel ECM should be nerfed into uselessness, when the end result would be a frigate sitting that far out with sensor damps on you instead?
Well, because with sensor damps, I at least I have A chance at SHOOTING back at the ships very close to me, with ECM, I have fuckall.
Also, ECM in itself shouldnt be nerfed, it's fine as is, but it's in the countering elements of it that needs someting urgently done about, and soon. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4832
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 14:52:57 -
[13] - Quote
How can you simultaneously say ECM should not be nerfed and call for a massive nerf to ECM? |
Goe Rilla
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 14:55:35 -
[14] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:How can you simultaneously say ECM should not be nerfed and call for a massive nerf to ECM?
Because, most people understood I wasnt talking about mass-nerfing ECM. Only you. Begone. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2383
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 15:18:59 -
[15] - Quote
Goe Rilla wrote:So I decided to engage a small/medium fleet of frigs in my VNI. I knew I would be sacrificing it but taking a few along with me at least and I dare say a good enough trade for choosing to suicide my ship to a blob.
First of all, your base assumption is pretty bold. Unless they were all wearing big floppy clownshoes, it's unlikely you would have scored a single kill, even in the absence of ECM.
Quote:
How did that work out ?
You guessed it, not a single way to do jackshit, due to that odd insta-permajam griffin sitting way beyond.
Er... since, as you described it, it sounds like this was a purely elective battle for you, did you not size them up at all before engaging?
Would you be less dead if they had just damped you out? Would you really feel better if you got off a few pointless shots that were easily outrepped by their logi?
Your post basically says that you think the game should be changed because you took a truly idiotic fight and got stomped in a completely predictable fashion.
Goe Rilla wrote:
Ok, perhaps you didnt catch on my sarcasm thre about having to armortank a shield ship precisely to maintain the holy trinity of med slots for pvp, hence sacrificing a medslot for a sebo or eccm on an armorship as an everytime undocking rule, is simply unthinkable, and borderline ******** CounterECM design ideas.
There are also signal amplifiers, which go in low sots. IIRC, they are basically as good as an unscripted sebo - lower scan res bonus, but same/similar targeting range and ECCM effects.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
isd community communications liaisons
7239
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 15:22:55 -
[16] - Quote
Removed an off topic post.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
Goe Rilla
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 15:24:27 -
[17] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Goe Rilla wrote:So I decided to engage a small/medium fleet of frigs in my VNI. I knew I would be sacrificing it but taking a few along with me at least and I dare say a good enough trade for choosing to suicide my ship to a blob.
First of all, your base assumption is pretty bold. Unless they were all wearing big floppy clownshoes, it's unlikely you would have scored a single kill, even in the absence of ECM. Quote:
How did that work out ?
You guessed it, not a single way to do jackshit, due to that odd insta-permajam griffin sitting way beyond.
Er... since, as you described it, it sounds like this was a purely elective battle for you, did you not size them up at all before engaging? Would you be less dead if they had just damped you out? Would you really feel better if you got off a few pointless shots that were easily outrepped by their logi? Your post basically says that you think the game should be changed because you took a truly idiotic fight and got stomped in a completely predictable fashion.
Well, had around 3 atrons circling me at 2000m.
And I wouldve blaped at least 2, if not all three before going down.
Had ECM not been an issue.
Idiotic fight you say ? Each man to his opinion I suppose. |
Christopher Mabata
Sentinel Incorporium
455
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 15:24:29 -
[18] - Quote
Threads like these make me a proud Falcon Pilot.
Literally there are tons of ways to deal with ECM, but every single time one comes up someone just uses an excuse instead of a solution CCP gave them
- SEBO w/ ECCM Script - ECCM Modules - Certain Implants like the Talon set - Sensor Compensation skills - Certain low slot modules - Staying out of Jam optimals - Drones - FOF Missiles
GÖú Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry GÖú 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing GÖú
This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
|
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2383
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 15:32:03 -
[19] - Quote
Goe Rilla wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Goe Rilla wrote:So I decided to engage a small/medium fleet of frigs in my VNI. I knew I would be sacrificing it but taking a few along with me at least and I dare say a good enough trade for choosing to suicide my ship to a blob.
First of all, your base assumption is pretty bold. Unless they were all wearing big floppy clownshoes, it's unlikely you would have scored a single kill, even in the absence of ECM. Quote:
How did that work out ?
You guessed it, not a single way to do jackshit, due to that odd insta-permajam griffin sitting way beyond.
Er... since, as you described it, it sounds like this was a purely elective battle for you, did you not size them up at all before engaging? Would you be less dead if they had just damped you out? Would you really feel better if you got off a few pointless shots that were easily outrepped by their logi? Your post basically says that you think the game should be changed because you took a truly idiotic fight and got stomped in a completely predictable fashion. Well, had around 3 atrons circling me at 2000m. And I wouldve blaped at least 2, if not all three before going down. Had ECM not been so much the issue described above. Idiotic fight you say ? Each man to his opinion I suppose.
Yep. Idiotic fight.
You also were not in a VNI - it was a normal vexor.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
1099
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 16:00:50 -
[20] - Quote
Christopher Mabata wrote:Threads like these make me a proud Falcon Pilot.
Literally there are tons of ways to deal with ECM, but every single time one comes up someone just uses an excuse instead of a solution CCP gave them
- SEBO w/ ECCM Script - ECCM Modules - Certain Implants like the Talon set - Sensor Compensation skills - Certain low slot modules - Staying out of Jam optimals - Drones - FOF Missiles
Yerp. The Sebo change was really a huge boon. You may have missed links as well, in your otherwise wonderful list.
The ECCM ships are actually very well balanced. They either lack the speed or the tank (except the ECMgu) to actually stay on the field. Un-bonused ECCM is very weak, where damps, TDs, and neuts are actually just fine without ship bonuses.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
|
|
Goe Rilla
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 16:03:01 -
[21] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Goe Rilla wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Goe Rilla wrote:So I decided to engage a small/medium fleet of frigs in my VNI. I knew I would be sacrificing it but taking a few along with me at least and I dare say a good enough trade for choosing to suicide my ship to a blob.
First of all, your base assumption is pretty bold. Unless they were all wearing big floppy clownshoes, it's unlikely you would have scored a single kill, even in the absence of ECM. Quote:
How did that work out ?
You guessed it, not a single way to do jackshit, due to that odd insta-permajam griffin sitting way beyond.
Er... since, as you described it, it sounds like this was a purely elective battle for you, did you not size them up at all before engaging? Would you be less dead if they had just damped you out? Would you really feel better if you got off a few pointless shots that were easily outrepped by their logi? Your post basically says that you think the game should be changed because you took a truly idiotic fight and got stomped in a completely predictable fashion. Well, had around 3 atrons circling me at 2000m. And I wouldve blaped at least 2, if not all three before going down. Had ECM not been so much the issue described above. Idiotic fight you say ? Each man to his opinion I suppose. Yep. Idiotic fight. You also were not in a VNI - it was a normal vexor.
Ok buddy, if you wanna to be a ******* about it, living ONLY by the ECM blobmagic is also pretty lame idiotic pvp and content-giving "in my book".
And VNI or Vexor in this particular case makes a BIG difference, other than for pleasuring yourself over how that tiny noodle between your legs. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2384
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 16:07:38 -
[22] - Quote
Goe Rilla wrote:
Ok buddy, if you wanna to be a ******* about it, living ONLY by the ECM blobmagic is also pretty ******* idiotic pvp and content-giving in my book.
Did somebody hold a gun to your head and force you to take a fight where you were outnumbered, outgunned, and out-controlled?
I'm betting you were dead before the end of the first jam cycle - it's not like this was a protracted engagement and you were permajammed the whole time.
Quote: And VNI or Vexor in this particular case makes a BIG difference, other than for pleasuring yourself over how that tiny noodle between your legs.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Your post claims you were in a VNI, but you were actually in a normal vexor. Is there some reason you've embellished the story?
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
1273
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 16:16:13 -
[23] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Goe Rilla wrote:
And VNI or Vexor in this particular case makes a BIG difference, other than for pleasuring yourself over how that tiny noodle between your legs.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Your post claims you were in a VNI, but you were actually in a normal vexor. Is there some reason you've embellished the story?
Because of tiny space noodles, obviously.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
|
Goe Rilla
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 16:18:26 -
[24] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Goe Rilla wrote:
Ok buddy, if you wanna to be a ******* about it, living ONLY by the ECM blobmagic is also pretty ******* idiotic pvp and content-giving in my book.
Did somebody hold a gun to your head and force you to take a fight where you were outnumbered, outgunned, and out-controlled? I'm betting you were dead before the end of the first jam cycle - it's not like this was a protracted engagement and you were permajammed the whole time. Quote: And VNI or Vexor in this particular case makes a BIG difference, other than for pleasuring yourself over how that tiny noodle between your legs.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Your post claims you were in a VNI, but you were actually in a normal vexor. Is there some reason you've embellished the story?
Not at all, I felt like going in a bang, to be able to at least take a few down with me, and save me the long trip home.
Is that such a terribly BLASPHEMOUS thing to want in your ******* book of the world ?
And I have numerous vexors and vni's in my hold, couldnt remember which was which, and couldnt care less either, just picked up a ship and left, and it made and still makes ZERO difference in the end for this topic, other than for your own weird online stalking/pleasurement ? |
Shirona C
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 16:24:19 -
[25] - Quote
You could try using existing mechanics if you want to "Take a Few With You", whining here only leads to more pleasure from your bountiful river or tears and more of less space stalking as you put it. Currently leaning towards more.
Long Live Little Space Noodles |
Goe Rilla
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 16:28:21 -
[26] - Quote
Shirona C wrote:You could try using existing mechanics if you want to "Take a Few With You", whining here only leads to more pleasure from your bountiful river or tears and more of less space stalking as you put it. Currently leaning towards more.
Long Live Little Space Noodles
The less time you spend using ECM ingame and posting in my pointless threads, the happier I get actually. |
Goe Rilla
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 17:30:01 -
[27] - Quote
fyi ECM fucktards.
I'll be buying a full set of High Grade Spurs, along with maxed out compensation skills.
I'll test it, and see if I still get insta-ECMed by a single griffin in a vexor/vni.
And if do, better run and hide... |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2384
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 17:31:35 -
[28] - Quote
Goe Rilla wrote:
Not at all, I felt like going in a bang, to be able to at least take a few down with me, and save me the long trip home.
Is that such a terribly BLASPHEMOUS thing to want in your ******* book of the world ?
You can want it all you want, but you're not actually entitled to score any kills against whatever gang you've decided to welp into. Do a better job of sizing them up next time.
Quote:And I have numerous vexors and vni's in my hold, couldnt remember which was which, and couldnt care less either, just picked up a ship and left, and it made and still makes ZERO difference in the end for this topic
The VNI has higher base sensor strength.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Goe Rilla
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 17:36:57 -
[29] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Goe Rilla wrote:
Not at all, I felt like going in a bang, to be able to at least take a few down with me, and save me the long trip home.
Is that such a terribly BLASPHEMOUS thing to want in your ******* book of the world ?
You can want it all you want, but you're not actually entitled to score any kills against whatever gang you've decided to welp into. Do a better job of sizing them up next time. Quote:And I have numerous vexors and vni's in my hold, couldnt remember which was which, and couldnt care less either, just picked up a ship and left, and it made and still makes ZERO difference in the end for this topic The VNI has higher base sensor strength.
Had the griffin not been there, I wouldve scored some, or at least even one. Reps lasted me around 15 seconds w/exile, more than enough to pop an atron or 2 with web/void/drones.
So like I said, wait till I get a full set of spurs, I'll settle on a similar fight, with one Griffin on field, sitting 80k away, and we'll see what happens. If I pop 4 or more and go, and without a single jam, glory for me.
If Insta jammed, the OVEN for you. |
Christopher Mabata
Sentinel Incorporium
456
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 17:49:50 -
[30] - Quote
I really fail to see how its going to matter if you get jammed again. Worst case scenario is what more ECM Nerf threads? Angry Emails to CCP? Considering How many times ECM has been balanced in recent years your basically pushing water up a hill.
Also a minor interjection here but ECM is a % based chance so even with Spurs in a VNI, running an ECCM Scripted Sebo with maximized magnetometric compensation skills AND Information warfare links theres still a good chance they're going to jam you based on their own Ewar skills and the bonused hull they're using. Especially if you run across a Kitsune, Rook, Falcon, or Widow; griffens probably won't be as effective
I can get average jams as high as 20.0 with a falcon heated from 70k and i haven't even upgraded my fit to use better jammers save for my dread guristas multispectral Jammer because their like 20m. Which is still somewhere around a what? 36% Chance to jam per jammer? that means if i fit 4 Magnetometric jammers i could in theory perma jam you despite your precautions BUT ONLY IF RNG says so, i could land in the 64% No jam chance every single time in theory.
Oh and the downside of using a drone boat too is that if they have a burst jammer fit or target your drones they can jam them out too.
GÖú Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry GÖú 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing GÖú
This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |