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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
487
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Posted - 2016.10.03 19:50:20 -
[1] - Quote
Seems that if there's no consequence for people placing orders that fail because the lack the funds, yet the information is withheld about who it is, if this game is about PVP and carebears have to accept risk when they undock those doing margin scams have absolutely no risk whatsoever.
1. If they can't fund something then it's a no go on the market buy.
2. At the very least it should cause them to be highlighted when the place their orders because lack of the funds for the items.
3. It should cause them to have loss in reputation with those NPC's who's market they are placing orders, fall low enough and you have to pay heafty fee's to use the markets of the faction in question.
To have absolutely nothing happen seems unbalanced when I have to accept the risk when I undock, everyone pays a price for doing things in game, everyone except margin scammers, we are issued warning about acceptance of certain contracts such as station may be inaccessible etc, I'm not worried about the isk I lost but if there's no consequence for the scammer seems a bit tard for others to brow beat carebears carebearing it up in high sec. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4838
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Posted - 2016.10.03 20:07:33 -
[2] - Quote
Please train forum searching to I and try again. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3550
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Posted - 2016.10.03 20:20:33 -
[3] - Quote
If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.
Lesson learned.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
13031
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Posted - 2016.10.03 20:25:04 -
[4] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:I'm not worried about the isk I lost but if there's no consequence for the scammer seems a bit tard for others to brow beat carebears carebearing it up in high sec.
What's the consequence of you using an offensive and derogatory term?
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
487
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Posted - 2016.10.03 20:25:35 -
[5] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Please train forum searching to I and try again.
Your capacitor is empty. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
487
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Posted - 2016.10.03 20:28:34 -
[6] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Piugattuk wrote:I'm not worried about the isk I lost but if there's no consequence for the scammer seems a bit tard for others to brow beat carebears carebearing it up in high sec. What's the consequence of you using an offensive and derogatory term?
My guess is you need to train Armor skills to level 1 If your so easily offended, you got SJW skills to lvl 5. |
Paranoid Loyd
9619
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Posted - 2016.10.03 20:29:19 -
[7] - Quote
When you become a big time trader and don't have the capital necessary to keep feeding the machine you'll be singing a different tune.
Margin skills are as necessary as paying attention and thinking for yourself. There's nothing to fix.
"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix
Fix the Prospect!
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
13033
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Posted - 2016.10.03 20:36:31 -
[8] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Bumblefck wrote:Piugattuk wrote:I'm not worried about the isk I lost but if there's no consequence for the scammer seems a bit tard for others to brow beat carebears carebearing it up in high sec. What's the consequence of you using an offensive and derogatory term? My guess is you need to train Armor skills to level 1 If your so easily offended, you got SJW skills to lvl 5.
Ah, the classic 'Social Justice Warrior' retort. Funny how those individuals being unpleasant wheel that one out - you'd think that they were trying to excuse something! If you'd replaced what you'd said with a racial or homophobic epithet, I doubt you'd be so cocky.
Loyd has succinctly put all that needs to be said regarding your brainfart of an idea. Fare thee well, toaster of ships.
e: Your grammar is offensive, btw.
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
487
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Posted - 2016.10.03 20:43:12 -
[9] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Piugattuk wrote:Bumblefck wrote:Piugattuk wrote:I'm not worried about the isk I lost but if there's no consequence for the scammer seems a bit tard for others to brow beat carebears carebearing it up in high sec. What's the consequence of you using an offensive and derogatory term? My guess is you need to train Armor skills to level 1 If your so easily offended, you got SJW skills to lvl 5. Ah, the classic 'Social Justice Warrior' retort. Funny how those individuals being unpleasant wheel that one out - you'd think that they were trying to excuse something! If you'd replaced what you'd said with a racial or homophobic epithet, I doubt you'd be so cocky. Loyd has succinctly put all that needs to be said regarding your brainfart of an idea. Fare thee well, toaster of ships. e: Your grammar is offensive, btw.
I've been called everything under the sun, I've had injustice thrown my way, I'd of given up long ago if I had not accepted the fact that most people are just hotdogs, the other day you were going back and forth with that guy in local in Osmon when he was just being an idiot, why keep on fighting his non-sence, ok I offended you, sorry, seriously sorry. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
487
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Posted - 2016.10.03 20:46:10 -
[10] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:When you become a big time trader and don't have the capital necessary to keep feeding the machine you'll be singing a different tune.
Margin skills are as necessary as paying attention and thinking for yourself. There's nothing to fix.
I have no problem having it a feature, but if people are going to play Bernie Madoff there should be some kick back no? |
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26942
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Posted - 2016.10.03 20:46:58 -
[11] - Quote
Flagging someone because they use the margin trading skill is an overreaction, I would hazard a guess that most traders use the mechanic and that many couldn't cover all their buy orders if they filled at once, because their isk is tied up in stock. When used as intended it allows people to leverage their isk efficiently when trading multiple items and allows them to use turnover to cover any potential shortfalls.
With that in mind, how would the system differentiate between the use of the margin trading skill for legitimate trading and the use of the margin trading skill to clean out the wallet of a mook and land them with some overpriced crap?
I've been caught out by it in the past, I learnt from the experience and now follow the philosophy of caveat emptor in that I research "high value" items before I purchase them.
As the old adages say "if it sounds too good to be true, it's a scam" and "there's one born every minute".
On a side note, Danika's capacitor may well have been empty, however your tears seem to have made it overflow.
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
13034
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Posted - 2016.10.03 20:48:05 -
[12] - Quote
He was liberally sprinkling the 'n-word' around the place while chatting nonsense about industry in EVE.
He wasn't being an idiot (or at least not primarily) - he was being racist. There's a difference between being a buffoon and being deliberately offensive.
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Paranoid Loyd
9619
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Posted - 2016.10.03 20:55:57 -
[13] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:When you become a big time trader and don't have the capital necessary to keep feeding the machine you'll be singing a different tune.
Margin skills are as necessary as paying attention and thinking for yourself. There's nothing to fix. I have no problem having it a feature, but if people are going to play Bernie Madoff there should be some kick back no? There is no way to programmatically determine when the margin skill is being used for nefarious purposes. So to answer your question, no.
"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix
Fix the Prospect!
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
487
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Posted - 2016.10.03 20:59:45 -
[14] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Piugattuk wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:When you become a big time trader and don't have the capital necessary to keep feeding the machine you'll be singing a different tune.
Margin skills are as necessary as paying attention and thinking for yourself. There's nothing to fix. I have no problem having it a feature, but if people are going to play Bernie Madoff there should be some kick back no? There is no way to programmatically determine when the margin skill is being used for nefarious purposes. So to answer your question, no.
Then that's that I guess. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
487
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 21:31:21 -
[15] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:He was liberally sprinkling the 'n-word' around the place while chatting nonsense about industry in EVE.
He wasn't being an idiot (or at least not primarily) - he was being racist. There's a difference between being a buffoon and being deliberately offensive.
Well, I just don't worry about folk like that, most of the time they can't be fixed. |
Paranoid Loyd
9620
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Posted - 2016.10.03 21:40:34 -
[16] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Bumblefck wrote:He was liberally sprinkling the 'n-word' around the place while chatting nonsense about industry in EVE.
He wasn't being an idiot (or at least not primarily) - he was being racist. There's a difference between being a buffoon and being deliberately offensive. Well, I just don't worry about folk like that, most of the time they can't be fixed. Be that as it may, doesn't mean they can't be shamed into STFU by a silver tongued devil such as bumble.
"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix
Fix the Prospect!
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Fraulein Von Katzenjammer
Norwegian Seal Clubbers
0
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Posted - 2016.10.03 21:51:22 -
[17] - Quote
If you want to know who's behind most of the scams, its Marmite alts most of them. Just go to Jita and begin annoy the scammers and suddenly Marmite will declare war upon Your corp
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Paranoid Loyd
9620
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Posted - 2016.10.03 22:00:19 -
[18] - Quote
Fraulein Von Katzenjammer wrote: "Correlation does not imply causation" seems appropriate here.
"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix
Fix the Prospect!
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
487
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Posted - 2016.10.03 22:05:06 -
[19] - Quote
Fraulein Von Katzenjammer wrote:
For quite a while I thought of doing things to others, but same as in real life, for everyone you remove 10 others will take it's place, the story of tree swingers, doesn't matter what you try to express to them or understand them, their brains just don't assimilate reality, I can accept that the things I would like to see happen in this game won't because others don't want it, I may believe I'm brilliant but if you are getting more no's then yes I tend to evaluate what it was I was wanting and see it from another's point of view, I can accept it makes logical sense to me and not others, this is a thing that will help me make better decisions on the whole. |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
637
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Posted - 2016.10.03 22:05:14 -
[20] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Seems that if there's no consequence for people placing orders that fail because the lack the funds, yet the information is withheld about who it is, if this game is about PVP and carebears have to accept risk when they undock those doing margin scams have absolutely no risk whatsoever.
1. If they can't fund something then it's a no go on the market buy.
2. At the very least it should cause them to be highlighted when the place their orders because lack of the funds for the items.
3. It should cause them to have loss in reputation with those NPC's who's market they are placing orders, fall low enough and you have to pay heafty fee's to use the markets of the faction in question.
To have absolutely nothing happen seems unbalanced when I have to accept the risk when I undock, everyone pays a price for doing things in game, everyone except margin scammers, we are issued warning about acceptance of certain contracts such as station may be inaccessible etc, I'm not worried about the isk I lost but if there's no consequence for the scammer seems a bit tard for others to brow beat carebears carebearing it up in high sec.
Also, as a 2010 character, how do you fall for that scam? |
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1127
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Posted - 2016.10.03 22:27:33 -
[21] - Quote
Delete the weak (and in this case, greedy).
Don't fall for scams kids. Your ISK. Your responsibility.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Fraulein Von Katzenjammer
Norwegian Seal Clubbers
0
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Posted - 2016.10.03 22:39:56 -
[22] - Quote
Fraulein Von Katzenjammer wrote:
In one of the cases, the scammer actually threathen me with war if i didnt stop, and i was curious what would wardec me so i kept on **** him off
And Marmite wardec'd us...
Right after the scammer smugfully stated in local: " i told you something bad would happen"
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
487
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Posted - 2016.10.03 22:45:42 -
[23] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Piugattuk wrote:Seems that if there's no consequence for people placing orders that fail because the lack the funds, yet the information is withheld about who it is, if this game is about PVP and carebears have to accept risk when they undock those doing margin scams have absolutely no risk whatsoever.
1. If they can't fund something then it's a no go on the market buy.
2. At the very least it should cause them to be highlighted when the place their orders because lack of the funds for the items.
3. It should cause them to have loss in reputation with those NPC's who's market they are placing orders, fall low enough and you have to pay heafty fee's to use the markets of the faction in question.
To have absolutely nothing happen seems unbalanced when I have to accept the risk when I undock, everyone pays a price for doing things in game, everyone except margin scammers, we are issued warning about acceptance of certain contracts such as station may be inaccessible etc, I'm not worried about the isk I lost but if there's no consequence for the scammer seems a bit tard for others to brow beat carebears carebearing it up in high sec. Also, as a 2010 character, how do you fall for that scam?
Took benadryl last night, been working hard to earn for a ship build should have gone to bed, but wanted to just finish up, well lesson learned. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26943
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Posted - 2016.10.03 22:51:18 -
[24] - Quote
Fraulein Von Katzenjammer wrote:Fraulein Von Katzenjammer wrote: In one of the cases, the scammer actually threathen me with war if i didnt stop, and i was curious what would wardec me so i kept on **** him off And Marmite wardec'd us... Right after the scammer smugfully stated in local: " i told you something bad would happen" The only thing that proves is that Marmite will wardec people if you pay them to; which is kind of the point of them being mercs.
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
487
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Posted - 2016.10.03 23:06:29 -
[25] - Quote
Fraulein Von Katzenjammer wrote:Fraulein Von Katzenjammer wrote: In one of the cases, the scammer actually threathen me with war if i didnt stop, and i was curious what would wardec me so i kept on **** him off And Marmite wardec'd us... Right after the scammer smugfully stated in local: " i told you something bad would happen"
I do see them all over everything, man I wish I had those kinds of funds, but alas, I'm a working Joe. |
Valkin Mordirc
2553
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Posted - 2016.10.04 00:25:12 -
[26] - Quote
Fraulein Von Katzenjammer wrote:Fraulein Von Katzenjammer wrote: In one of the cases, the scammer actually threathen me with war if i didnt stop, and i was curious what would wardec me so i kept on **** him off And Marmite wardec'd us... Right after the scammer smugfully stated in local: " i told you something bad would happen"
In one case out of how many?
Also you were probably decced for being an annoying **** in local. That, believe it or is a primary cause for random decs, along with mass mail corp recruitments, autopilot, bling and the such.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Sitting Bull Lakota
SBL Co
170
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Posted - 2016.10.04 03:11:48 -
[27] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Most people are just hotdogs. Billiant. |
Bad Pennyy
Abraxas Rising
9
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Posted - 2016.10.04 04:44:42 -
[28] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Seems that if there's no consequence for people placing orders that fail because the lack the funds, yet the information is withheld about who it is, if this game is about PVP and carebears have to accept risk when they undock those doing margin scams have absolutely no risk whatsoever.
To have absolutely nothing happen seems unbalanced when I have to accept the risk when I undock, everyone pays a price for doing things in game, everyone except margin scammers, we are issued warning about acceptance of certain contracts such as station may be inaccessible etc, I'm not worried about the isk I lost but if there's no consequence for the scammer seems a bit tard for others to brow beat carebears carebearing it up in high sec.
I understand your frustration, but transparency / lack of transparency is an appealing aspect of the trader playstyle. Trading, like other elements of Eve has trainable skills and skills that are acquired by playing Eve. The ability to trade profitably in Eve is learned by doing it. The game is appealing because one doesn't expect feedback from the game itself but from the results of one's gameplay. This is a bit obscure but the fact that the game doesn't tell you when you're about to make a mistake makes discovery and success fun. It attaches value to experience. Capitalistic markets are rarely fairly transparent to all parties involved and they certainly are not rational.
And, the tools are in available in game to assess one's intended actions. The market history profiles are sufficient risk management tools. And, given other mechanics such as the use of alts, identifying a scammer has little chance of impacting the behavior - the person simply moves on to a new alt etc.
And a margin scam has certain risks expressed as sunk costs - skills, some wallet reserve and probably an item for sale on the market. If you've bought some unsellable item, start with the pilot you bought it from. If you discern this seller was also an alt, then the problem, the lack of accountability, will become apparent even with some additional flagging system.
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Fraulein Von Katzenjammer
Norwegian Seal Clubbers
0
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Posted - 2016.10.04 12:00:27 -
[29] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Fraulein Von Katzenjammer wrote:Fraulein Von Katzenjammer wrote: In one of the cases, the scammer actually threathen me with war if i didnt stop, and i was curious what would wardec me so i kept on **** him off And Marmite wardec'd us... Right after the scammer smugfully stated in local: " i told you something bad would happen" In one case out of how many? Also you were probably decced for being an annoying **** in local. That, believe it or is a primary cause for random decs, along with mass mail corp recruitments, autopilot, bling and the such.
Actually i wasnt being a ****, i kept telling others in local that i offerd a good amount of isk to those that managed to kill the scammer toon or reveal and kill their main toon..... offering twice the amount of isk of the value of the ship or 10times the value of the pod. THAT didnt land good witj the scamming community.
And it was 2 occations it happend. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1019
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Posted - 2016.10.04 12:50:29 -
[30] - Quote
I know game and it does not have to match real life and all that but we should start this by looking at what margin trading really is. Margin Trading is essentially borrowing money from your brokerage firm so you can buy stocks or bonds you would not be able to buy otherwise. This carries risks for both parties and both parties know who to go after if it all goes bad, in EvE at least one of the parties and often both of them are allowed to hide behind a game mechanic. In a game where all of you champion the ability to extract your revenge when slighted here you are all arguing to maintain the ability to remain anonymous so as to hide from potential retributions for your actions in the markets. Gives one cause to wonder. In the end I see nothing wrong with making the character names on both sides of a market transaction known. If the transaction completes properly then each party knows who to thank, and if it fails for some reason then both parties know who to go after.
Many of you have misread the OP as well. They are not asking for margin trading to be removed from the game, they are simply asking for the anonymity either or both sides currently enjoy to be removed so both sides know who to blame if something goers wrong and I agree with them this needs to change. |
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