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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
77
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Posted - 2016.10.19 15:09:03 -
[631] - Quote
Tiirz wrote: My biggest concern is fuel cost. I have seen a few things about it in this thread and am not sure of exact numbers. From what I could tell 3 services in a medium will cost 60 blocks? Which I find a bit ridiculous. IF everyone is going to front this much isk to continue doing the industry we have been, should fuel cost really be increased 50% over a large POS which could do more?
if you check things out on the test server you will see that the 2 research services now cost 5 blocks every hour each. the manufacturing one still costs 20 but its gone down to just 30 blocks every hour or 22.5 when used with the engineering complexes fuel bonus |
Tiirz
Fallen Sentinels Holesale Operations
1
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Posted - 2016.10.19 15:17:00 -
[632] - Quote
Hmmm. Depending on how ccp works gas reactions, sounds like on top of having to invest more isk than I'd like to into industry citadels my fuel bill is going to increase as well. Does onlining industry mods take a large chunk of fuel like current mods? |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
77
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Posted - 2016.10.19 15:21:24 -
[633] - Quote
Tiirz wrote:Hmmm. Depending on how ccp works gas reactions, sounds like on top of having to invest more isk than I'd like to into industry citadels my fuel bill is going to increase as well. Does onlining industry mods take a large chunk of fuel like current mods?
all services have a 3 day onlining cost. this is to ensure that you cant abuse the thigs by onlining them only the absolute moment you need them and what not. |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
493
|
Posted - 2016.10.19 16:54:01 -
[634] - Quote
RainReaper wrote:Tiirz wrote:Hmmm. Depending on how ccp works gas reactions, sounds like on top of having to invest more isk than I'd like to into industry citadels my fuel bill is going to increase as well. Does onlining industry mods take a large chunk of fuel like current mods? all services have a 3 day onlining cost. this is to ensure that you cant abuse the thigs by onlining them only the absolute moment you need them and what not.
Sucks to be CCP, I still plan on "abusing" this by planning ahead and leaving the services offline until needed. My little alt-corp luckily doesn't need the services that often, so I can for example stockpile materials in month A and produce things in month B. And only during month B will I need the services, the rest of the time they'll be offline. Fuel costs saved.
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RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
77
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Posted - 2016.10.19 17:09:02 -
[635] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:RainReaper wrote:Tiirz wrote:Hmmm. Depending on how ccp works gas reactions, sounds like on top of having to invest more isk than I'd like to into industry citadels my fuel bill is going to increase as well. Does onlining industry mods take a large chunk of fuel like current mods? all services have a 3 day onlining cost. this is to ensure that you cant abuse the thigs by onlining them only the absolute moment you need them and what not. Sucks to be CCP, I still plan on "abusing" this by planning ahead and leaving the services offline until needed. My little alt-corp luckily doesn't need the services that often, so I can for example stockpile materials in month A and produce things in month B. And only during month B will I need the services, the rest of the time they'll be offline. Fuel costs saved.
i would not call that abuse lol. thats jsut planing ahead. i mean abuse by offlineing/onlinging every fev minutes to make it so that you have to pay noting in fuel. an examlple where this is abusable is with the refining service. altough i dont think its as easily abusible when you are building things. but hey its there for a reason lol. but yeah if you plan ahead its not abuse. |
Tiirz
Fallen Sentinels Holesale Operations
2
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Posted - 2016.10.19 17:34:56 -
[636] - Quote
Does anyone know when CCP is going to be releasing info on gas reactions? Are they just going to be a service module as well? I personally find the current gas reaction system clunky at best, and eye stabbing at worst. The gas reaction system should be reworked with all the confusing links, on lining, off lining, and hooking the right silos together that it currently consists of. Double reaction poses are cancer with this system, and I have lost a day or two of reactions because I missed one step more than once. While I am not certain how speeding up gas reactions would affect the market and T3 production in general, I feel as though anyone reacting more than just their personnel gas would appreciate it. I run a double reaction pos, and I BARELY make the fuel money back off the profits from the reactions. These changes wouldn't effect much of the eve community, but us that do deal with gas and t3 production would like some quality of life updates! |
Obil Que
Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance
474
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Posted - 2016.10.19 17:42:30 -
[637] - Quote
Tiirz wrote:Does anyone know when CCP is going to be releasing info on gas reactions? Are they just going to be a service module as well? I personally find the current gas reaction system clunky at best, and eye stabbing at worst. The gas reaction system should be reworked with all the confusing links, on lining, off lining, and hooking the right silos together that it currently consists of. Double reaction poses are cancer with this system, and I have lost a day or two of reactions because I missed one step more than once. While I am not certain how speeding up gas reactions would affect the market and T3 production in general, I feel as though anyone reacting more than just their personnel gas would appreciate it. I run a double reaction pos, and I BARELY make the fuel money back off the profits from the reactions. These changes wouldn't effect much of the eve community, but us that do deal with gas and t3 production would like some quality of life updates!
Nothing concrete but the general information we have is that reactions (along with moon mining) will be incorporated into the drilling platform structures. Presumably this would be with a new service module (probably also fittable to ECs and Citadels without fuel bonus) and corresponding rigs. |
Setsuko Shintaro
Caldari Manufacturing and Design
1
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Posted - 2016.10.19 17:42:40 -
[638] - Quote
Tiirz wrote:Does anyone know when CCP is going to be releasing info on gas reactions?
My understanding is that there is no change to gas reactions in this upcoming release. Those changes are most likely slated for the winter release with the mining array structures. Any information would probably come with a dev blog on those structures a few months from now.
I do have to ask, if you barely make above fuel cost, why bother doing it?
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Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
493
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Posted - 2016.10.19 18:41:06 -
[639] - Quote
This reminds me, why was moon mining never allowed in HighSec? As far as I know no moon in HighSec gives out anything besides the most worthless stuff imaginable. If someone wants to waste time and money on trying out moon mining in HighSec, I think they should. I can see why reactions aren't allowed, but come on is someone seriously thinking there'll be a sudden wave of mad people spending tons of fuel and time on getting random crap from a HighSec-moon? |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2470
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Posted - 2016.10.19 18:50:50 -
[640] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:This reminds me, why was moon mining never allowed in HighSec? As far as I know no moon in HighSec gives out anything besides the most worthless stuff imaginable. If someone wants to waste time and money on trying out moon mining in HighSec, I think they should. I can see why reactions aren't allowed, but come on is someone seriously thinking there'll be a sudden wave of mad people spending tons of fuel and time on getting random crap from a HighSec-moon?
Because then there would be a bunch of shiptoasting to the effect of:
Ehrmagerd, moon mining in HS is completely worthless! Why even have it in the game if there's no point? Buff HS moon mining!
Worthless content isn't content.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Tiirz
Fallen Sentinels Holesale Operations
2
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Posted - 2016.10.19 19:10:37 -
[641] - Quote
Setsuko Shintaro wrote:Tiirz wrote:Does anyone know when CCP is going to be releasing info on gas reactions? I do have to ask, if you barely make above fuel cost, why bother doing it?
1. Overall T3 profit margin is worth it and I like to keep my whole chain in house
2. I run a corpoeation, and we buyback everything. Alot of my fuys gas mine in tgere down time. I buy about 2+million m3 worth if gas a month. Reacting decreases tge size by alot, making it much easier for me to move and desl with. |
frightning
Griffin Capsuleers Ad-Astra
9
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Posted - 2016.10.19 20:34:29 -
[642] - Quote
I may have missed the confirmation but when are Small Engineering Arrays & Small Citadels being released? |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
463
|
Posted - 2016.10.19 21:06:19 -
[643] - Quote
frightning wrote:I may have missed the confirmation but when are Small Engineering Arrays & Small Citadels being released?
there are no smalls.. ccp couldn't deliver so they went with M,L,XL .. this is all you get. |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
463
|
Posted - 2016.10.19 21:26:58 -
[644] - Quote
id like to add a few missing notes. since ccp for certain reasons are not bringing it up at all
1) when will the structures BPO hull be seeded? 2) how come there wasn't an announcement of how much those bpo's would cost ahead of time just like you did for citadels? 3) how come you're not allowing those bpo's proper researching times? you gave us a window to research them up so what gives? 4) how come you haven't and or not announcing the prices of the standup manufacturing, researching, invention service mods?
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
18155
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Posted - 2016.10.19 21:39:39 -
[645] - Quote
frightning wrote:I may have missed the confirmation but when are Small Engineering Arrays & Small Citadels being released?
There are no "small citadels". Small deployables are things like MTUs, mobile depots, &c. Citadels start at medium size and up.
"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."
Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
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Urziel99
Unified Research and Industrial
186
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Posted - 2016.10.19 22:15:36 -
[646] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:id like to add a few missing notes. since ccp for certain reasons are not bringing it up at all
1) when will the structures BPO hull be seeded? 2) how come there wasn't an announcement of how much those bpo's would cost ahead of time just like you did for citadels? 3) how come you're not allowing those bpo's proper researching times? you gave us a window to research them up so what gives? 4) how come you haven't and or not announcing the prices of the standup manufacturing, researching, invention service mods?
A few of the details still appear to be in flux. For example the research service modules currently use 5 blocks per hour instead of 20 and the rigs haven't been seeded yet. Hard to price things on TQ when the fine details aren't ironed out. |
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
847
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Posted - 2016.10.19 22:41:49 -
[647] - Quote
M'kay...so I know test server and whatnot = not final numbers!
But the Devblog said that Research Lab will need 20 blocks/hr and on the test server it says 5 blocks/hr.
This is a good change towards non-ridiculous fuel requirements needed for service modules!
I'm hoping the numbers for the rest will be reconsidered in the near future aswell.
Mainly how the Manufacturing Plant uses 20 blocks/hr but the Capital Shipyard uses 10 blocks/hr. |
Viktor Archangel
New Eden's Best.
0
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Posted - 2016.10.20 09:25:36 -
[648] - Quote
Obil Que wrote:Altrue wrote:A bit sad over the higher vulnerability timers and the retaining of the system cost manufacturing index, but I understand why both of these aspects are necessary.
What of the ability to use a Market Service Module? Is it limited to L and XL or only for XL? I expect that the market service module can only be fit to Fortizars, Keepstars, and the Palatine Keepstar. Not the engineering complexes. It would seem counter-design to allow a manufacturing structure to provide the market services of a Citadel. Same, I would expect, for clone services.
But it did say citadels can manufacture/equip indy rigs.
Maybe players should just ignore getting the complexes as CCP intends. |
Kinizsi
FREE GATES FREE GATES COALITION
11
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Posted - 2016.10.20 12:20:56 -
[649] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:M'kay...so I know test server and whatnot = not final numbers!
But the Devblog said that Research Lab will need 20 blocks/hr and on the test server it says 5 blocks/hr.
This is a good change towards non-ridiculous fuel requirements needed for service modules!
I'm hoping the numbers for the rest will be reconsidered in the near future aswell.
Mainly how the Manufacturing Plant uses 20 blocks/hr but the Capital Shipyard uses 10 blocks/hr.
I don't know why you are so scared of the fuel requirements???
60% of the price of the fuel bloc comes from ICE, with the Rorqual changes, ice products price would freefall like a stone tossed out from an aeroplane..... so the fuel blocks price would allso drop fast. Don't be that much scared, and don't count the fuel need on today prices.
You are talking about capital building shipyards...... building capitals aren't a cheap thing, tax them, and your fuel cost is secured anyway. |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
77
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 12:39:47 -
[650] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:M'kay...so I know test server and whatnot = not final numbers!
But the Devblog said that Research Lab will need 20 blocks/hr and on the test server it says 5 blocks/hr.
This is a good change towards non-ridiculous fuel requirements needed for service modules!
I'm hoping the numbers for the rest will be reconsidered in the near future aswell.
Mainly how the Manufacturing Plant uses 20 blocks/hr but the Capital Shipyard uses 10 blocks/hr.
um just so you know the capital shipyard can ONLY build capital ships, and that dosent includ capital parts. you still need the manufacturing plant in order to make the capital parts to build the capital ships. this means that the capital shipyard is nothing more than an expansion for the basic manufacturing plant. wich is why it only costs 10 blocks instead of costing a mad amount of fuel on top of the regular manufacturing plant. |
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Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
852
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Posted - 2016.10.20 13:01:40 -
[651] - Quote
Kinizsi wrote:Mai Khumm wrote:M'kay...so I know test server and whatnot = not final numbers!
But the Devblog said that Research Lab will need 20 blocks/hr and on the test server it says 5 blocks/hr.
This is a good change towards non-ridiculous fuel requirements needed for service modules!
I'm hoping the numbers for the rest will be reconsidered in the near future aswell.
Mainly how the Manufacturing Plant uses 20 blocks/hr but the Capital Shipyard uses 10 blocks/hr. I don't know why you are so scared of the fuel requirements??? 60% of the price of the fuel bloc comes from ICE, with the Rorqual changes, ice products price would freefall like a stone tossed out from an aeroplane..... so the fuel blocks price would allso drop fast. Don't be that much scared, and don't count the fuel need on today prices. You are talking about capital building shipyards...... building capitals aren't a cheap thing, tax them, and your fuel cost is secured anyway.
I'm looking at it from a POS to Structure viewpoint. Currently, and for the immediate future, to run a small POS with various equipment for manufacturing/research/refining etc etc, costs 10 blocks/hr. And you only need 1 POS. With the Rigs as they are right now, 1 structure can be used to efficiently do one task. At a much greater initial cost! The only benefit right now between POSs and Structures is that you can turns things on/off without the bubble going down and opening yourself up for attack.
That would make sense if ICE was limitless like the good old days. Seeing how they function like a regular belt and deplete for the past fer years, the only real change is the ability to mine it faster. Which might net you 1 more spawn/day. The prices won't tank either if the fuel required triples.
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Kinizsi
FREE GATES FREE GATES COALITION
11
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Posted - 2016.10.20 13:17:50 -
[652] - Quote
I think you are missing a key point.
Citadel services go offline if they are not fuelled, but the structure still protects all your asset, not just invul timers but with the asset safety mechanism.
If you don't use a service, you don't fuel it. You don't need to fuel the service only if you are building something, not 24/7 regardless of it's usage. So if you are not in building something, you let the fuel run out, or just grab the fuel from the fuel bay, and turn it offline stopping all fuel consumption, but still protecting your stuff. |
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
852
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Posted - 2016.10.20 13:23:07 -
[653] - Quote
Kinizsi wrote:I think you are missing a key point.
Citadel services go offline if they are not fuelled, but the structure still protects all your asset, not just invul timers but with the asset safety mechanism.
If you don't use a service, you don't fuel it. You don't need to fuel the service only if you are building something, not 24/7 regardless of it's usage. So if you are not in building something, you let the fuel run out, or just grab the fuel from the fuel bay, and turn it offline stopping all fuel consumption, but still protecting your stuff. My reply to you, first paragraph, last sentence..
Mai Khumm wrote:The only benefit right now between POSs and Structures is that you can turns things on/off without the bubble going down and opening yourself up for attack. |
Kinizsi
FREE GATES FREE GATES COALITION
11
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Posted - 2016.10.20 13:39:54 -
[654] - Quote
One thing is sure, people would specialize in products, what worth. When market trends change, they build another EC for the different type of stuff, and so on.....
You do not have to maintain the EC, there will be freeports. specialized for different product types, and rigged for max efficiency. People might realize that they shouldn't solo build, and cooperation would benefit them more than triing to solo everything. Sharing maintenance can be pretty profitable if you find good partners noone said that you should solo fuel your EC. |
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
852
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 14:00:56 -
[655] - Quote
Freeports are only a good idea in Highsec because of how hard it is to remove one. A Manufacturing Freeport is beyond stupid anywhere else, especially if it's a EC, simply because of the large Vulnerability window and lack of defensive capabilities.
Freeports in Highsec are very risky, because if I dump a few Billion worth of blueprints, materials and ships, nothing stops the owner from turning off modules AND turn the Structure private...thus locking all assets inside!
Now then, people will have to spend more time moving things around, I might mine and refine in system "X" build frigates 5 jumps away in system "Y" and build modules in system "Z" another 8 jumps away. Then I have to co-ordinate all that to a central trading hub. Which is a logistical pain in the ass! (and increasing your chance of a suicide gank) Which I actually currently do, in one place, in one POS, efficiently and logistically sound! (and I can specialize in several things at once!) |
Kinizsi
FREE GATES FREE GATES COALITION
11
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Posted - 2016.10.20 14:10:49 -
[656] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:Freeports are only a good idea in Highsec because of how hard it is to remove one. A Manufacturing Freeport is beyond stupid anywhere else, especially if it's a EC, simply because of the large Vulnerability window and lack of defensive capabilities.
Freeports in Highsec are very risky, because if I dump a few Billion worth of blueprints, materials and ships, nothing stops the owner from turning off modules AND turn the Structure private...thus locking all assets inside!
Now then, people will have to spend more time moving things around, I might mine and refine in system "X" build frigates 5 jumps away in system "Y" and build modules in system "Z" another 8 jumps away. Then I have to co-ordinate all that to a central trading hub. Which is a logistical pain in the ass! (and increasing your chance of a suicide gank) Which I actually currently do, in one place, in one POS, efficiently and logistically sound! (and I can specialize in several things at once!)
Or you join up a corp/alliance what has built all in one place, and has the power to defend those assets. They would surely not close you out from the alliance citadels or EC.........don't think in small, the community would solve all those problems and after the POS's phase out you'd allso find the way for making it worth. I foresee high sec manufacture cartells with good reputation, who don't close you out from their citadels. But if they do, you hire mercs to kill the citadel, freeing your stuff by asset safety. |
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
852
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 14:18:35 -
[657] - Quote
Yeah, but you have players who actually prefer a solo life, for one reason or another. Highsec will never change the way it operates, for the same reason why most people there refuse to leave it!
Basically telling people to play a different way then you like is on par with joining ANY Nullsec group.
...also, look at the cost of hiring a competent...COMPETENT Merc group. I'll wait whilst you go a look that up.
Also, factor in time lost to having your assets locked away for a week. |
Kinizsi
FREE GATES FREE GATES COALITION
11
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Posted - 2016.10.20 14:31:14 -
[658] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:Yeah, but you have players who actually prefer a solo life, for one reason or another. Highsec will never change the way it operates, for the same reason why most people there refuse to leave it!
Basically telling people to play a different way then you like is on par with joining ANY Nullsec group.
...also, look at the cost of hiring a competent...COMPETENT Merc group. I'll wait whilst you go a look that up.
Also, factor in time lost to having your assets locked away for a week.
You can manufacture on NPC stations, that thing is free.
Nowdays you don't see enough competent merc groups, cause there are only a few types of jobs they can do.(allthough I know a fistfull of fins who can do anything for cheap)
But when it would become a thing to remove EC's in a mass cause there is a need for it, many would rise, and probably many would become competent. The more merc groups rise, it would become more and more cheaper.
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Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
852
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Posted - 2016.10.20 14:37:14 -
[659] - Quote
If NPC stations were worth it, then you wouldn't find any manufacturing and/or researching POSs in Highsec...ever! |
YeuxVerts Belle
Calibrated Chaos Triumvirate.
8
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Posted - 2016.10.20 14:44:04 -
[660] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:If NPC stations were worth it, then you wouldn't find any manufacturing and/or researching POSs in Highsec...ever!
Yet you find systems like Jita with 0 POS and surprisingly high manufacturing and research indexes.
NPC stations are worth it. They compete. They offer edges and hindrances, just like POS and ECs.
The above message presents my opinions on the topic at hand. If there is a conflict between my views and reality, consider reality to be correct until proven otherwise.
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