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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
8738
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Posted - 2016.10.11 18:50:39 -
[1] - Quote
This seems big.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik
1694
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Posted - 2016.10.11 18:52:28 -
[2] - Quote
And I thought Synthia had a talent for understatement.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Samira Kernher
2866
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Posted - 2016.10.11 19:01:06 -
[3] - Quote
I see. |
Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1669
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Posted - 2016.10.11 19:22:33 -
[4] - Quote
I always had an inkling that I still had a soul somewhere in me. Nice to see that possibility may be validated.
Other than that, however, business as usual.
Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle
Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Lord Consort of House Sarum
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Mitara Newelle
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
503
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Posted - 2016.10.11 19:26:14 -
[5] - Quote
A great weight of the unknown has been lifted. I am relieved to know that when I finally leave this world I shall join my fellow Faithful in Paradise. I am renewed in my conviction to fulfill the duties God has placed upon me. I pray my sentiments are shared among the rest of the Faithful capsuleers.
Regarding the heretic, I rejoice in the Privy Council's decision and punishment. Molok has poisoned you, Lysus, beyond repair. May you rot for all time.
Lady Mitara Newelle of House Sarum, Holder of the Mekhios province of Damnidios Para'nashu, Champion of House Sarum, Sworn Upholder of the Faith, Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Admiral of Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Alizebeth Amalath
Order of Jamyl
464
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Posted - 2016.10.11 19:35:41 -
[6] - Quote
I will have to take the time to read the decision in full and compose my thoughts. However, I think that today the Supreme Sobor has confirmed what we all knew and what we all have seen. God's power is limitless. No mere technology of ours can disrupt, or destroy His order of creation. He made human beings with souls for a purpose, and our soul stays with us when we clone. A great weight has been lifted from Imperial capsuleers this day. A great uncertainty cleared.
May God continue to Bless Empress Catiz, the Privy Council, the Theology Council, and all those that lead Holy Amarr. |
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
554
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Posted - 2016.10.11 21:03:54 -
[7] - Quote
Ah, transhumanism. And just in time it seems!
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
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Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
975
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Posted - 2016.10.11 21:40:21 -
[8] - Quote
The Theology and Privy Councils has finally weighed in with two, linked messages, concerning Capsuleers in the Empire.
First, my heart rejoices as the Council recognized that a Just God could reward the Faithful. Capsuleers in the Empire are a part of the Faithful to be accepted as "embodying souls in communion with the Imperial Rite as the flesh of their birth would speak to us".
Second, Capsuleers in the Empire also have the obligations of the Faithful and a failure to follow them will lead to a fate similar to Lysus. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
6522
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Posted - 2016.10.11 23:13:37 -
[9] - Quote
Never divorce an Empress - she always gets the house.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
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Solu Terona
Alexylva Paradox
104
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Posted - 2016.10.11 23:34:08 -
[10] - Quote
Let it never be said that the reclaimed can't get **** done. My respect to the Empress
Humans must eventually break out from the limits of biology, its not radical to accept the inevitable.
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Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1425
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Posted - 2016.10.11 23:52:15 -
[11] - Quote
Think that decision was one Empress too late.... |
Ayallah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
595
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Posted - 2016.10.12 00:06:04 -
[12] - Quote
Quote:The Theology Council's top scholars have supported their judgment by analogy with the highly unusual cases of Empress Jamyl I and Lord Aritcio Kor-Azor. In regard to the former case they noted the "miraculous presence" of the Empress's soul in both the body of her birth and the body "given her by divine providence after her first death". Empress Jamyl continuing to serve as an example and changing things for capsuleers even after death.
Quote:"embodying souls in communion with the Imperial Rite as the flesh of their birth would speak to us" Big indeed.
"What you give to this Empire, I shall give back unto you." - Empress Jamyl I
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Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
328
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Posted - 2016.10.12 00:32:38 -
[13] - Quote
Punishment seems too severe for a devoted servant who just lost his liege and couldn't cope with grief in a proper manner. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
6525
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Posted - 2016.10.12 01:04:44 -
[14] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:I see. Special Delivery! One Sammi-Soul.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
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Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
649
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Posted - 2016.10.12 01:13:17 -
[15] - Quote
That seems a little foreboding in the long term. If clones are no longer inherently blasphemous in most circumstances, how long could the sacred flesh doctrine really hold up theologically? What would happen to a society like the Empire if Holders could rule indefinitely, without needing to pay regard to their wider family and succession? |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
6525
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Posted - 2016.10.12 01:14:50 -
[16] - Quote
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:That seems a little foreboding in the long term. If clones are no longer inherently blasphemous in most circumstances, how long could the sacred flesh doctrine really hold up theologically? What would happen to a society like the Empire if Holders could rule indefinitely, without needing to pay regard to their wider family and succession? I'm guessing a lot of assassination.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2440
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Posted - 2016.10.12 01:19:36 -
[17] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Samira Kernher wrote:I see. Special Delivery! One Sammi-Soul.
IIIII officially have a SOOOOUL!
(Too.)
It's hard to overstate how cheery I am about this, and I'm not even properly a believer. It's just been really depressing being confronted all too often with the idea that not only am I a pathetic soulless little marionette, but that I've always been one for as long as I've existed as a separate being!
(I have no memory of a time before I was a clone, to be clear.)
I hope you'll be able to draw some comfort from this ruling, Ms. Kernher. I know I will, and I don't even believe in souls in this sense in the first place! |
Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
649
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Posted - 2016.10.12 01:27:18 -
[18] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I'm guessing a lot of assassination.
If it does play out that way, it's not exactly an ideal for a society that bases itself on the ostensible piety of it's rulers.
Call me a misanthrope, but I can't see this as anything other then a fairly cynical move to solidify favor in the increasingly important Capsuleer class by the new Empress. But, I won't sneer at those who take vindication from it regardless. |
Solu Terona
Alexylva Paradox
106
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Posted - 2016.10.12 01:36:37 -
[19] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Samira Kernher wrote:I see. Special Delivery! One Sammi-Soul. IIIII officially have a SOOOOUL! (Too.) It's hard to overstate how cheery I am about this, and I'm not even properly a believer. It's just been really depressing being confronted all too often with the idea that not only am I a pathetic soulless little marionette, but that I've always been one for as long as I've existed as a separate being! (I have no memory of a time before I was a clone, to be clear.) I hope you'll be able to draw some comfort from this ruling, Ms. Kernher. I know I will, and I don't even believe in souls in this sense in the first place! You and me both miss Jenneth. I am by all standards of the faith a heretic. Still its nice to know that if my soul does exist in the form the Orthodoxy would have me believe, I can still influence its judgement when whatever end awaits me comes.
Humans must eventually break out from the limits of biology, its not radical to accept the inevitable.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2442
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Posted - 2016.10.12 01:51:57 -
[20] - Quote
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:That seems a little foreboding in the long term. If clones are no longer inherently blasphemous in most circumstances, how long could the sacred flesh doctrine really hold up theologically? What would happen to a society like the Empire if Holders could rule indefinitely, without needing to pay regard to their wider family and succession?
It's a needle that needs threading (I don't think anybody wants a single, eternal Amarrian head of state), but that's probably already at least partially handled by the pre-existence of the sacred flesh doctrine. |
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Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
649
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Posted - 2016.10.12 01:59:28 -
[21] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:(I don't think anybody wants a single, eternal Amarrian head of state).
I would dare to suggest that the current head of state might want it. (Talking in general terms and not about Empress Catiz in particular here; If there's a universal political truth, it's that most people will keep power rather than give it up if they can get away with it.) |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2444
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Posted - 2016.10.12 02:14:24 -
[22] - Quote
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:(I don't think anybody wants a single, eternal Amarrian head of state). I would dare to suggest that the current head of state might want it. (Talking in general terms and not about Empress Catiz in particular here; If there's a universal political truth, it's that most people will keep power rather than give it up if they can get away with it.)
Often, sure. One thing that's a little interesting to me, though, is how far the Amarr have gotten without anybody trying to play that game-- or at least, getting very far with it.
One of the consistent surprises of my time here has been finding out about all the little systemic tensions and balances of power. The whole thing's set up like someone spent an AWFUL lot of time and effort working out how to keep abuse of power from ever actually threatening the feudal hierarchy, which goes a long way towards explaining why the Empire's stood for so long.
With any luck they've got a few centuries to work out the kinks. Probably they'll take their time about it. The Theology Council seems to be kind of what you get when you make an empowered think tank out of an Empire's worth of top theologians who probably have an average age north of 200 standard years and the pragmatic life experience to go with it.
They're not exactly amateurs at this. |
Alizebeth Amalath
Order of Jamyl
472
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Posted - 2016.10.12 02:39:26 -
[23] - Quote
The Supreme Sobor are the best theologians anywhere, and the amount of brain power, knowledge, and experience the Theology Council as a whole can bring to a problem is simply staggering. |
Mitara Newelle
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
506
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Posted - 2016.10.12 03:22:32 -
[24] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Punishment seems too severe for a devoted servant who just lost his liege and couldn't cope with grief in a proper manner. Disagree.
One does not repeatedly after being warned numerous times by The Order to remain silent continue to spout heresy and expect to walk away without severe consequences. He not only dishonored himself but the House of Kor-Azor as it's representative. Most of us have had to grieve for our respective Heirs. If this is how he opts to cope with such grief he was not fit to be a Holder to begin with.
Lady Mitara Newelle of House Sarum, Holder of the Mekhios province of Damnidios Para'nashu, Champion of House Sarum, Sworn Upholder of the Faith, Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Admiral of Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
6527
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Posted - 2016.10.12 04:14:02 -
[25] - Quote
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I'm guessing a lot of assassination. If it does play out that way, it's not exactly an ideal for a society that bases itself on the ostensible piety of it's rulers. Call me a misanthrope, but I can't see this as anything other then a fairly cynical move to solidify favor in the increasingly important Capsuleer class in the Empire by the new Empress. But, I won't sneer at those who take vindication from it regardless. I doubt that it will take the race that came up with Shathol-syn very long to concoct an orderly codex for legal assassination that takes all the guesswork and collateral damage away.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
|
Samira Kernher
2869
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Posted - 2016.10.12 04:19:39 -
[26] - Quote
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:Call me a misanthrope, but I can't see this as anything other then a fairly cynical move to solidify favor in the increasingly important Capsuleer class in the Empire by the new Empress.
This is what worries me. The timing is convenient. |
Synthetic Cultist
Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik
555
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Posted - 2016.10.12 05:22:49 -
[27] - Quote
This is an Interesting Statement, that I shall Discuss with my Religious Advisers, as it has Quite Profound Implications.
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:That seems a little foreboding in the long term. If clones are no longer inherently blasphemous in most circumstances, how long could the sacred flesh doctrine really hold up theologically? What would happen to a society like the Empire if Holders could rule indefinitely, without needing to pay regard to their wider family and succession?
There are Several Potential Outcomes.
1. Deposing the Incumbent through Scheming - This is Quite Common already.
2. Expansionism of the Empire to Accommodate the Landless Nobility - This has happened in History quite Often.
3. A Law Specifying that One can have Immortality or Political Power, but not Both - This would require a new branch of Inquisitors.
Synthia 1, Empress of Kaztropol.
It is Written.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2506
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Posted - 2016.10.12 05:42:25 -
[28] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Samira Kernher wrote:I see. Special Delivery! One Sammi-Soul. IIIII officially have a SOOOOUL! (Too.) It's hard to overstate how cheery I am about this, and I'm not even properly a believer. It's just been really depressing being confronted all too often with the idea that not only am I a pathetic soulless little marionette, but that I've always been one for as long as I've existed as a separate being! (I have no memory of a time before I was a clone, to be clear.) I hope you'll be able to draw some comfort from this ruling, Ms. Kernher. I know I will, and I don't even believe in souls in this sense in the first place!
I guess it falls to me to be the voice of dissent on that score. Not only is this a fairly crass political move to curry favor with the capsuleer class, it dovetails in solidly with the Empress's announced plans to push for more capsuleersGÇöand to push for those capsuleers to be directed not toward their own self-determination, but to be strongly encouraged to "support the Golden Fleet".
We all know capsuleer vessels require a smaller crew than baseliner vessels. When you're planning a significant military build-up, and part of those plans is using "the largest expansion to our pod pilot training program ever conceived" to provide "tens of thousands more capsuleers", well, it doesn't take a genius to see that you need to provide a loophole to the implications of the Sacred Flesh doctrine. It's blatantly being done in order to stretch the 'support' manpower as far as possible.
If I did believe in the Amarr concept of a soul, this kind of cheap pandering wouldn't reassure me at all. Just the opposite. This speaks nothing of actual deliberation, but rather of the willingness of the Theology Council to say whatever is politically expedientGÇöor whatever will give the extremely wealthy Empress who is in a position to offer any number of rewards whatever cover she needs to grease the wheels of her military/industrial plans. |
Utari Onzo
Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1422
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Posted - 2016.10.12 06:43:10 -
[29] - Quote
About bloody time this argument was put forth. I look forward to seeing if it is upheld and enters doctrine proper, but for now I am satisfied where this is going.
As for Lysus, his punishment is well deserved. It's one thing to claim to be stricken with grief, it's another to behave in such a deplorable manner before the Empress herself and the general public. The doors opened for him once, they will not open for him a second time.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
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Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Noticed.
1999
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Posted - 2016.10.12 07:05:40 -
[30] - Quote
Might as well just overturn the 105 Heideran's Decree and let capsuleer Holders have as big a space fleet as they need through retainers while she's at it.
I'm sure all the Tash-Murkon Holders would love that too. Kickstart that Imperial military-industrial complex. |
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