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Samira Kernher
2873
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Posted - 2016.10.12 18:44:45 -
[61] - Quote
You don't know anything about me, my lord, and you never have. Don't presume to tell me who holds my chains.
Besides, this is what you wanted from the beginning. |
Nick Bete
The Scope Gallente Federation
495
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 18:48:00 -
[62] - Quote
Who died and left you in charge of the universe Shutaq? Oh, and good luck with coming after Arrendis or any of the rest of us who oppose your magical deity/slavery cult empire.
Avenging angel my ass... |
Alizebeth Amalath
Order of Jamyl
478
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 18:50:16 -
[63] - Quote
Samira, why don't you come see me in Sarum Prime some time this week. I'd love for us to have a talk that's not viewed by God knows how many other people. |
Nick Bete
The Scope Gallente Federation
495
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 18:55:26 -
[64] - Quote
Wow, someone starts to think for herself and questions Imperial dogma and suddenly the unthinking zealots attack her and offer to give her some private brainwashing sessions.
Leave the poor girl alone and quit trying to bully her, both of you. |
Alizebeth Amalath
Order of Jamyl
478
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 18:59:41 -
[65] - Quote
It is very common for someone to talk to a priestess in private. In fact, it's a key point of our ministry. This is an invitation, not an order. I'm not making her do anything. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
6536
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 19:01:00 -
[66] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:New Empress, New rules. What amazes me are the number of you who believe that the Empress has a divine mandate from heaven to rule in the manner she believes is best but now question those changes. How fortunate, then, that not all of us who question the sincerity of this decree believe in her. And those of us who don't believe thought the original decree was backwards, reactionary and stupid. We surely didn't admire the Amarr for it. By any objective measurement, the Empire is less stupid because of the change.
It caused genuine distress to loyalist capsuleers and seemed nothing more than prejudice and a tantrum from Holders who couldn't accept that there was something they wanted that they couldn't obtain through money, power, influence or violence.
From the perspective of the believers, you have the anointed of God reaching out through the Theology Council. From the perspective of the rest of us you have, perhaps, the least ******** thing to come out of a government agency in quite awhile.
From either perspective, I'm not sure what has YOUR underwear all bunched up.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
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Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1686
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 19:06:01 -
[67] - Quote
I already explained her motivations, Pieter.
Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle
Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Lord Consort of House Sarum
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2513
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Posted - 2016.10.12 19:13:17 -
[68] - Quote
Aldrith Shutaq wrote: Arrendis, I know exactly what you are doing. I also know exactly what you want. You want the Empire to fail. You want it to burn, and you just have a fancy way of expressing that desire.
Are you insane? Do you think I'm completely bonkers? Aldrith, how many Minmatar slaves are there still within the Empire? What would the Empire's collapse do to them? Stop, take a deep breath, and remember who it was who could explain to the mouth-breathers why the destabilization of the Empire was a direct threat against your children.
It's just as much a direct threat against my distant kin, and while I won't begin to claim I care for them as intently and deeply as any parent does for their child, blood is blood, man. Do I want to see them free to decide the course of their lives for themselves? Of course. Do I want to plunge them into devastation and civil war to do it? Spirits below, do I look like Nauplius?
Quote: You are not calling out a hypocrisy. You are upset that the Empire might counter the power of capsuleers by incorporating them fully into its society. That is a threat to you, and to every null power out there, including yours. And you do not want that to happen, so you cast doubt upon this decision because you want to sway more hesitant Amarr to resist this change. I get it. I understand. You do not give a damn about Amarr purity or morality, you give a damn about taking advantage of the sense of purity and morality.
You don't get it. You think you do, and I respect that, but you don't get it, and you really don't want to get it. I'd love for the EmpireGÇöfor all four 'empires'GÇöto formally incorporate capsuleer forces into their militaries. We'd reduce the number of lives lost in most conflicts, and we'd improve unit performance across the board. More, it'd be an avenue for more of us to have a positive, recognized impact back home.
This program offers no threat to the null blocs. If you think Horde, Brave, TEST, and Karmafleet aren't salivating over this, you're mad. Seriously. Even if the Amarr funnel every one of these new capsuleers into their service, it's no threat to us. The Empire cannot expand its borders militarily into null without violating the treaties that created 'sovereign' nullsec to begin with. CONCORD administers those territories, and the Federation and Republic would move to block the move just as surely as the Empire and State would block an expansion by the Republic or Federation. It's not the null powers who'd be threatened by a military build-up of capsuleers loyal to the Empires. It's the low-security powers who'd have problems with increased patrols and stability, and the corresponding decrease in CONCORD response time (down from 'infinity' does leave a lot of room, but still).
Quote: Shut it. You have no business here. Your words are false, your manipulative skinks**t is old. But now I can be confident your enfeebled soul is going to pop out of existence when you die for the last time, so I'm not too worried about you. I do worry about those you are trying to corrupt, however.
Does that mean you're not coming to 9CG? |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2513
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 19:18:19 -
[69] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:From either perspective, I'm not sure what has YOUR underwear all bunched up.
Eh, I just hate when crass political maneuvering gets lapped up by the masses as some kind of moral 'gift' that they're all so lucky to receive. Call it a pet peeve. At least when we make a move like this, we openly tell people we're doing it out of pragmatic self-interest and don't try to sell it to them as some gesture of benevolence. Even the Viceroy bullshit was pretty blatantly acknowledged to be about controlling space we didn't own.
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Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1426
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 19:18:35 -
[70] - Quote
More infighting to be viewed by the peanut gallery.
And this is why the Amarr religion must be destroyed! No, not really. There's plenty of other reasons but I won't waste my time writing them.
Admittedly I can't see how your god gives you some divine gift (well, the Jove indirectly did technically but that's beside the point) and you can't see it as being right using it. Then again I also can't see how PIE can ignore numerous other ships due to them not being of Amarr design. |
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Elanion
42
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Posted - 2016.10.12 19:19:26 -
[71] - Quote
Well, I can see why the Sanmatar wanted to be a part of these proceedings. Watching the newly-endowed Imperial clone class gnash at each others' throats will play well back in the Republic, and he will say, "I was there."
RIP YC111-115 GÇó "The project discarded, its subjects forgotten... thence must the burden be shouldered."
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Mitara Newelle
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
516
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 19:23:27 -
[72] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:Also, also, the Amarr aren't exactly all-forgiving. Garkeh Khanid defied the direct edict of the Emperor, acted in contravention of the policy of the Sacred Flesh, stole a massive amount of the Empire's military power and stood athwart the accepted and official 'will of God' for centuries, and then was welcomed back into the fold and given an express ride to 'paradise', explicitly. If you've got enough money and enough power to offer them, the Amarr have proven they'll forgive anything. He's dead now though isn't he? We are not all-forgiving and we are very, very patient.
Lady Mitara Newelle of House Sarum, Holder of the Mekhios province of Damnidios Para'nashu, Champion of House Sarum, Sworn Upholder of the Faith, Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Admiral of Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Samira Kernher
2873
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Posted - 2016.10.12 19:25:13 -
[73] - Quote
Mitara Newelle wrote:He's dead now though isn't he? We are not all-forgiving and we are very, very patient.
As dead as a capsuleer. |
Mitara Newelle
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
516
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Posted - 2016.10.12 19:26:34 -
[74] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Mitara Newelle wrote:Ashlar Vellum wrote:Punishment seems too severe for a devoted servant who just lost his liege and couldn't cope with grief in a proper manner. Disagree. One does not repeatedly after being warned numerous times by The Order to remain silent continue to spout heresy and expect to walk away without severe consequences. He not only dishonored himself but the House of Kor-Azor as it's representative. Most of us have had to grieve for our respective Heirs. If this is how he opts to cope with such grief he was not fit to be a Holder to begin with. If you may Lady Newelle. There is a difference between justice and drastic punishment. It would be foolish to argue that insolence and breaking the code of demeanor should go unpunished. One thing is to strip accused of his rank and his fief and completely different thing to brand devoted servant who just lost his liege, the servant that fought with such zeal and devotion for his lord a blasphemer and a heretic. I would like to draw your attention to two precedents that happend in YC 105, one during inauguration of His Greatness Doriam II and actions of Fleet Admiral Sulei Manatir in service of Sarum Family, and another was a response to Stavros's tactless criticism. It is also good to remember The Word of God that states "The Mercy of our Emperor is Limitless. His Rule is Benign and Righteous. His Love is Perpetual.". So in consideration with everything that transpired and all details kept in mind it would be a welcome sight to see Her Holiness benign and righteous judgment without any obstructions from St. Tetrimon or Privy Council. All of this of course if accused understands his insubordinate behavior and plea for forgiveness. As he has shown no remorse and continues to spew his heresy I see no reason why Her Majesty would overturn the ruling of the Privy Council.
Lady Mitara Newelle of House Sarum, Holder of the Mekhios province of Damnidios Para'nashu, Champion of House Sarum, Sworn Upholder of the Faith, Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Admiral of Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
|
Alizebeth Amalath
Order of Jamyl
479
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 19:26:57 -
[75] - Quote
Sacred Flesh still applies to heirs. |
Mitara Newelle
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
516
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 19:27:27 -
[76] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:Mitara Newelle wrote:He's dead now though isn't he? We are not all-forgiving and we are very, very patient. As dead as a capsuleer. What are you implying, Ms Kernher?
Lady Mitara Newelle of House Sarum, Holder of the Mekhios province of Damnidios Para'nashu, Champion of House Sarum, Sworn Upholder of the Faith, Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Admiral of Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2515
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 19:28:35 -
[77] - Quote
Mitara Newelle wrote:He's dead now though isn't he? We are not all-forgiving and we are very, very patient.
Sure. Assuming he had no more clones wandering around posing as.. I dunno.. his heir..
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Samira Kernher
2873
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 19:31:13 -
[78] - Quote
You know exactly what I'm implying, Lady Newelle. |
Alizebeth Amalath
Order of Jamyl
479
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 19:33:27 -
[79] - Quote
If King Khanid III is a clone of King Khanid II, as whispered speculation is said in capsuleer circles, mostly from without the faithful, that would be a violation of Sacred Flesh. |
Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1687
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 19:38:26 -
[80] - Quote
And on goes the 'honest concerned citizen' switch.
You're a liar, Arrendis, and I do not respect that. You do not care about Amarr theology, the sanctity of the Empress - Theology Council relationship, or the truth about the state of a clone's soul. You care about getting your way, and your way is leisurely watching the Empire made weaker by what you see as foolish dogma, then shaking the base of Amarr power when they go rescind those dogmas by calling them self-interested and lacking in divine purpose.
The exhortation confirms what has already been an obvious truth to most people in the Empire, and the cluster at large. Clones are people. Even if it is a crass political move, (which is not possible because ALL moves made by the Empress are God's will, advantageous to herself or not) I do not give a single damn. The state of my family, my corporation, and my Empire are made better for it. I get to have a soul. My children are not the products of abominations. My alliance is a recognized body of faithful warriors, and now my Empire gets to accept more of those warriors to fight on her behalf and better compete in the changing arena of warfare. The fact that you utterly fail to mention any of this until your motives are questioned is telling.
Now the task it to seek revelation on what laws clones must abide by. Surely they must not be allowed to hold positions indefinitely within the Empire. Surely they must be held to standards whereby they do not abuse their power. Certainly they will not be able to have multiple copies of themselves active at one time. Amarr has always changed with the times, and recognized that the future is just as important as the past. We will be given God's will on this matter and abide by it as we always have.
As for any potential talk of Khanid not being pure, let the inquisitors figure that out. Honestly, how hard is it for you people to keep your damn mouths shut?!
Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle
Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Lord Consort of House Sarum
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Mitara Newelle
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
518
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 19:45:12 -
[81] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:You know exactly what I'm implying, Lady Newelle. Then why not just come out and say it? You're not bothering to filter your thoughts on much else here lately.
Lady Mitara Newelle of House Sarum, Holder of the Mekhios province of Damnidios Para'nashu, Champion of House Sarum, Sworn Upholder of the Faith, Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Admiral of Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
|
Alizebeth Amalath
Order of Jamyl
483
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 19:47:24 -
[82] - Quote
Lord Newelle: The Advisory Opinion of the Supreme Sobor did not give you a soul where you had no one before; it simply recognized what already existed. God created humans to have souls, and our understanding of Him is such that we know clones have souls as well. Neither the Empress nor the Theology Council have the power to give a soul to that which does not. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2515
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 19:52:50 -
[83] - Quote
Aldrith Shutaq wrote: You're a liar, Arrendis, and I do not respect that. You do not care about Amarr theology, the sanctity of the Empress - Theology Council relationship, or the truth about the state of a clone's soul. You care about getting your way, and your way is leisurely watching the Empire made weaker by what you see as foolish dogma, then shaking the base of Amarr power when they go rescind those dogmas by calling them self-interested and lacking in divine purpose.
I dated Del'thul, Aldrith. I'm not her. I don't want to see your Empire burn. I don't want to see your children put at risk. I don't want to see my kin endangered. I've never said I care about the sanctity of the Empress. I care about my friends, and I get annoyed by hypocrisy. That's it. That's all I've said. I'm curious about Amarr theology, and interested in it as an academic matter, but I've never claimed to be seeking something to believe in or otherwise invested in it. You want to call me a liar, maybe you should fecking come up with an actual lie.
Quote: The exhortation confirms what has already been an obvious truth to most people in the Empire, and the cluster at large. Clones are people. Even if it is a crass political move, (which is not possible because ALL moves made by the Empress are God's will, advantageous to herself or not) I do not give a single damn. The state of my family, my corporation, and my Empire are made better for it. I get to have a soul. My children are not the products of abominations. My alliance is a recognized body of faithful warriors, and now my Empire gets to accept more of those warriors to fight on her behalf and better compete in the changing arena of warfare. The fact that you utterly fail to mention any of this until your motives are questioned is telling.
And there's the essence of your real objection here: you know I'm right, and the idea that the Empress and the Theology Council can make a move grounded in expedience and realpolitik threatens your faith. Is it so weak as to believe that a God that can create all of existence can't make crass political calculus serve his ends?
And yes, you get to have a soul, if you believe in one. They never had the ability to take it from you. Either they are right, or they are wrong. If they are right, you always had a soul. If they're wrong, you still don't have one. You don't 'get' to have a soul. Either you do, or you don't, and since they cannot now, and never could actually prove that you don't, if you want one, claim one! Mittens' Kittens, boy, don't act like a whipped cur for their pleasure. If you're a man, be a damned man. Stand on your own, without worrying about the approval of some bunch of dried up birth canals and follicle-depleted scalps.
Quote:Honestly, how hard is it for you people to keep your damn mouths shut?!
How hard is it for you to accept responsibility for your own life, your own faith, and your own understanding of your God, instead of insisting on your right to remain a child, forever coddled and directed by mommy and daddy on the Council? |
Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1689
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 19:53:22 -
[84] - Quote
That is what I wished to convey, Mother Alamath, but you are correct that I did not succeed in that. My apologies, I will edit accordingly.
Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle
Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Lord Consort of House Sarum
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Samira Kernher
2875
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 19:58:23 -
[85] - Quote
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:As for any potential talk of Khanid not being pure, let the inquisitors figure that out. Honestly, how hard is it for you people to keep your damn mouths shut?!
The inquisitors? What power has the Inquisition ever had over the Kingdom? I mean, okay, the Theology Council struck Khanid from the Book of Records and Emperor Heideran declared war on him. That seemed to do a whole lot of good, seeing as he's now back in the Empire, with all the rights and none of the responsibilities since his precious kingdom keeps on getting special exemptions for its heresies. He was allowed to compete in the Succession Trials and nearly became Emperor of Amarr (the only heir to ever get two chances!). Think about that. Think about what would have happened if Garkeh Khanid, the single biggest traitor to Amarr, had become emperor. And if he's doing what everyone knows he's doing, then he's going to try again, and again, and again, until he wins.
It is time we stop trying to whitewash failings and instead correct them. The devil is competing for the crown, and the only thing we seem to be worried about is the impropriety of calling him the devil. |
Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1693
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 20:03:46 -
[86] - Quote
This isn't about mistakes, it's about knowing your place. All sins are revealed in time, and all wrongs are corrected. But not by us, not until they are ready to be.
If you still care to listen to reason I have something to share with you, but I will not speak here any longer. I grow tired of the feeble minds and arguments that fail to recognize how things truly work in the Empire.
Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle
Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Lord Consort of House Sarum
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Alizebeth Amalath
Order of Jamyl
488
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 20:08:57 -
[87] - Quote
I would look to the late Lord Kor-Azor for an example. Should the people he wronged not have spoken against him? Should they have kept their place, because he was the Emperor's son and an heir?
NO!
It is only by the cries of the faithful that Lord Kor-Azor was brought back into the faithful. Without those that he wronged speaking out, bearing witness did the Speakers of Truth investigate, judge, punish, and ultimately help redeem him. We should look to their example and give voice to the wrong, so long as it is respectful and proper, so that it may be corrected and the wayward child brought back into the flock. |
Mitara Newelle
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
519
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 20:10:39 -
[88] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:Aldrith Shutaq wrote:As for any potential talk of Khanid not being pure, let the inquisitors figure that out. Honestly, how hard is it for you people to keep your damn mouths shut?! The inquisitors? What power has the Inquisition ever had over the Kingdom? I mean, okay, the Theology Council struck Khanid from the Book of Records and Emperor Heideran declared war on him. That seemed to do a whole lot of good, seeing as he's now back in the Empire, with all the rights and none of the responsibilities since his precious kingdom keeps on getting special exemptions for its heresies. He was allowed to compete in the Succession Trials and nearly became Emperor of Amarr (the only heir to ever get two chances!). Think about that. Think about what would have happened if Garkeh Khanid, the single biggest traitor to Amarr, had become emperor. And if he's doing what everyone knows he's doing, then he's going to try again, and again, and again, until he wins. It is time we stop trying to whitewash failings and instead correct them. The devil is competing for the crown, and the only thing we seem to be worried about is the impropriety of calling him the devil.
You keep saying 'He' as if Garkeh Khanid was still with us. I highly, highly you suggest you change your line of speaking lest Grand Inquisitor Ohrud Omel feel the need to make his presence known.
Lady Mitara Newelle of House Sarum, Holder of the Mekhios province of Damnidios Para'nashu, Champion of House Sarum, Sworn Upholder of the Faith, Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Admiral of Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
|
Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1696
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 20:15:25 -
[89] - Quote
Let us just all calm down and meet-in person for our next exchange. I think that would be most helpful.
Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle
Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Lord Consort of House Sarum
|
Alizebeth Amalath
Order of Jamyl
488
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 20:17:32 -
[90] - Quote
I'll have the drinks. My office in Safizon tonight? |
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