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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5304
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Posted - 2016.10.12 19:43:57 -
[211] - Quote
Lasisha Mishi wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Lasisha Mishi wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: Let's see...Somer Blink, RMTing. IWI, RMTing. EVE Cassino, multiple EULA violations...we aren't starting to see a pattern here?
And never mind, that and with RMT and gambling you could get State and Federal government agencies looking at you....
eve-bet was fine o.o no RMT How big are they? And you are ignoring the problems that once RL money becomes involved and if it is considered actual online gambling...then you might be in some legal difficulties. http://www.pcgamer.com/state-regulator-orders-valve-to-halt-csgo-skin-gambling-through-steam/ Oh look...posted 7 days ago. once rl money becomes involved. yeah no argument thats when its crossed the line but far as i know, eve-bet has just been isk and in game items. heck if CCP made an in game "bet pool" for the AT i'd be perfectly happy (freeport ftw. though i expect pandemic will win <.<)
As far as you know. So CCP is to...what? Audit these guys now too?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Aspen Neva
0
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Posted - 2016.10.12 19:49:28 -
[212] - Quote
iam Evingod wrote:So do the changes made to the "Your Account" section no longer allow multiboxing if you are paying for them with PLEX?
"You may establish more than one (1) Account for each copy of the Software licensed. You are however not allowed to play EVE by using more than one account, at the same time, unless you pay a subscription fee for each of the accounts you intend to use for that purpose."
THIS needs clarification. Legally speaking, this means no more 10+ accounts. If that is the case me and my alts are done.
Only regarding alpha clone.
With new EULA you can only have 1 alpha, or any numbers of beta. So your case you can multibox 10 beta and have an extra alpha. or 11 beta and no alpha.
Beta meaning you pay a subscription |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2826
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Posted - 2016.10.12 19:51:12 -
[213] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Look, I'm pretty sure most people at CCP don't care if you want to gamble with ISK. And they might be fine with some gambling sites in an ideal world.
But we don't live in an ideal world. So CCP just decided to chuck the whole thing into the waste bin to be done with it and avoid any hassles that could involve IRL lawyers and costs. Indeed. Concerns of RMT and the in-game politics aside, this decision was likely heavily informed by recent legal events involving virtual assets and gambling outside of CCPs control.
The writing was on the wall, and lawyers being lawyers, they likely advised CCP to put gambling sites at arms length as soon as feasible. A finding of RMT by the security team sealed the deal and we get this change now.
Sure this sucks for groups and players funded by gambling profits, but it could not be allowed to continue, both to protect CCP from legal action and to stop an apparently rampant RMT operation. There was no choice really.
Frankly, it is a little concerning to me to see so many people coming out of the woodwork to defend such damaging EULA breaking behaviour. No, the self-interest is to be expected, but rather the magnitude of it. I didn't realize how many pies the casinos had their fingers in, and that alone shows how much power a few players actually had and suggests it might have been a problem.
Well whatever, this era is now past. Chin up fellow players, a new age of Ascension is fast approaching. I have no doubt that after a short period of upheaval, Eve will get along just fine without the space casinos.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
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tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
260
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Posted - 2016.10.12 19:51:40 -
[214] - Quote
ccp please clarify this 90 day purge. because im gonna be so pissed if youre saying my loyalty for the past 13 years means nothing and all my time and hard work can be just deleted cos i took a break then wtf you have just killed eve. why would you even do this. there shoud be like a sp limit of say 15 mill or soemthing
All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
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KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
977
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Posted - 2016.10.12 19:53:02 -
[215] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Bank run in 3...2...1...
They run to it, finding nothing but a crater and broken capsuleer shells mutilated beyond recognition. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5307
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Posted - 2016.10.12 19:53:19 -
[216] - Quote
Toobo wrote: If you want to go in to details. I'm happy to play.
For bottle spinning - what if the meet up required you to give ISK to the event organiser to get 'ticket' to participate in the meet up where lucky draws and chance based events will take place - then you are 'buying in' the participation to such event isn't it?
For Chribba's dice (sorry to mention you Chribba but this is one everyone knows, I know you are clean), what if he offered third party service to hold the prize isk/asset for the lucky draw event (this is actually how it used to be at times with old sell order forum lottos, that there was a third party involved holding the lotto prize) - then basically the mechanism is same as what CCP banned with EULA now.
Stop reading "third party" as if it applies to third party services in game.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Aurure
some random local shitlords
8
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Posted - 2016.10.12 19:53:32 -
[217] - Quote
Toobo wrote:Aurure wrote:Toobo wrote:The wordings and application of this with such brute force is so wishy-washy and not well defined/clear that so many casual lol things can fall into this bannable category.
Let's say we have off line meet up in a pub. . We do spin the bottle and the winner gets a PLEX in game. That's game of chance and gambling?
Let's say we do in-corp lucky draw (which many corps do), but the 'draw' is performed by an out of game third party (e.g. Chribba's dice that used to be popular), then it's a third party using 'chance' mechanic to award 'winner' with 'in game asset/currency'.
This is truly WTF. We had sell order forum lotteries years ago using third party draw tools that people could trust, such as Chribba's dice or whatever other reputable RNG site was at the time.
All those things would be against EULA now right? Bottlespinning: You're not gambling, as you don't have buy ins. It's also not third party. In-Corp Lucky Draw: Chribba might give you the diceroll, but he isn't brokering the buyins and payouts. So, no third partying. If you want to go in to details. I'm happy to play. For bottle spinning - what if the meet up required you to give ISK to the event organiser to get 'ticket' to participate in the meet up where lucky draws and chance based events will take place - then you are 'buying in' the participation to such event isn't it? For Chribba's dice (sorry to mention you Chribba but this is one everyone knows, I know you are clean), what if he offered third party service to hold the prize isk/asset for the lucky draw event (this is actually how it used to be at times with old sell order forum lottos, that there was a third party involved holding the lotto prize) - then basically the mechanism is same as what CCP banned with EULA now.
Go ask CCP what a third party is, and make them define it. Then you will have answers to every question regarding third parties you'll ever have.
Nonetheless, glad these ISK making schemes are going to be a thing of the past.
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Minerva Arbosa
Astrocomical Warped Intentions
24
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Posted - 2016.10.12 19:53:40 -
[218] - Quote
Elliott Spitzer wrote:Toobo wrote:If Iron is flagged as RMT (I have no reason to accuse him as such, but since they are doing blanket punishment on all involved, just for the virtue of involvement, not actual evidence of involvement) - then will CCP remove his SP too? Which was bought using ISK he made from IWI, which is now all of sudden judged to be involved with RMT, including down to Bankers who just got hired a few weeks ago?
WTF is going on seriously. What? They are doing this because there is a massive amount of evidence involved.
There is no evidence as they can just do what they want why they want to. If there was evidence, then CCP would release reports on big items such as this and explain in wording how they found the link between RMT and IWI. No report, no evidence. Goes back to just because they wanted to. |
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
260
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Posted - 2016.10.12 19:54:30 -
[219] - Quote
Chribba wrote:I'm interpreting this as running external sites that deals with ISK/items etc is prohibited.
Is me securing supercap trades against the rules?
Is running a lottery for a titan, using the "Sell Orders" forum against the rules?
Is running an auction for a titan, using the "Sell Orders" forum against the rules?
/c
it says operated by THIRD PARTIES - sell orders aint thrid party
You may not use, transfer or assign any game assets for games of chance operated by third parties. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.
All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
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michael chasseur
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
72
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Posted - 2016.10.12 19:54:52 -
[220] - Quote
i've never gambled but i think it's funny that CCP bans all the things that do their job better, or make light of how terrible their own company is |
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Morrow Disca
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
97
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Posted - 2016.10.12 19:57:22 -
[221] - Quote
Minerva Arbosa wrote:Elliott Spitzer wrote:Toobo wrote:If Iron is flagged as RMT (I have no reason to accuse him as such, but since they are doing blanket punishment on all involved, just for the virtue of involvement, not actual evidence of involvement) - then will CCP remove his SP too? Which was bought using ISK he made from IWI, which is now all of sudden judged to be involved with RMT, including down to Bankers who just got hired a few weeks ago?
WTF is going on seriously. What? They are doing this because there is a massive amount of evidence involved. There is no evidence as they can just do what they want why they want to. If there was evidence, then CCP would release reports on big items such as this and explain in wording how they found the link between RMT and IWI. No report, no evidence. Goes back to just because they wanted to.
I also heard that jet fuel can't melt steel beams. |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2540
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 19:59:33 -
[222] - Quote
michael chasseur wrote:i've never gambled but i think it's funny that CCP bans all the things that do their job better, or make light of how terrible their own company is
Well, consider this as an opportunity for Pandemic Legion. As one of the wealthiest alliances in the game, I'm sure you and yours could put a mere fraction of your substantial wealth into filling the void of community building that IWI and its ilk left behind.
Goonswarm Federation would do it, but after being utterly defeated and driven to irrelevance in the Casino Wars, we lack the ability to effectively shepherd such a venture. Pandemic Legion, adored by all, would be far more effective at the role.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Primary This Rifter
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
1210
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Posted - 2016.10.12 20:00:01 -
[223] - Quote
A few years ago I got so hooked on Somer Blink that I had a net loss of something like 20 billion ISK by the time I finally stopped. I was also really sore about how IWI was able to fund WWB against my (at the time) alliance. And obviously I don't think RMT should be allowed.
I don't think these are adequate reasons to ban third-party ISK gambling sites. I really don't play this game as much as I used to and I haven't used any gambling sites since I quit Blink, but I still think this is a pointless move and it only pisses off players who enjoyed this sort of thing. |
Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
79
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 20:01:20 -
[224] - Quote
I think I posted the original link to the UK upcoming court case..
What I would like to now know is if the abomination that was masquerading as Care For Kids citadel network has also been removed?
When it was first announced I posted that I had reservations about it considering who was involved, now it seems that those reservations were indeed founded. I suspected instantly that it was just a way to hide isk/cash/rmt, a few agreed but sadly the thread was closed.
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Aspen Neva
0
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Posted - 2016.10.12 20:01:28 -
[225] - Quote
Morrow Disca wrote:
I also heard that jet fuel can't melt steel beams.
If you fit 9+10 torpedos you could easily trump a beam. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5307
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Posted - 2016.10.12 20:05:14 -
[226] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:A few years ago I got so hooked on Somer Blink that I had a net loss of something like 20 billion ISK by the time I finally stopped. I was also really sore about how IWI was able to fund WWB against my (at the time) alliance. And obviously I don't think RMT should be allowed.
I don't think these are adequate reasons to ban third-party ISK gambling sites. I really don't play this game as much as I used to and I haven't used any gambling sites since I quit Blink, but I still think this is a pointless move and it only pisses off players who enjoyed this sort of thing.
Yeah, you're right RMT is not a sufficient reason to ban IWI.
Might want to re-word that....
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
79
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Posted - 2016.10.12 20:08:11 -
[227] - Quote
Minerva Arbosa wrote:Elliott Spitzer wrote:Toobo wrote:If Iron is flagged as RMT (I have no reason to accuse him as such, but since they are doing blanket punishment on all involved, just for the virtue of involvement, not actual evidence of involvement) - then will CCP remove his SP too? Which was bought using ISK he made from IWI, which is now all of sudden judged to be involved with RMT, including down to Bankers who just got hired a few weeks ago?
WTF is going on seriously. What? They are doing this because there is a massive amount of evidence involved. There is no evidence as they can just do what they want why they want to. If there was evidence, then CCP would release reports on big items such as this and explain in wording how they found the link between RMT and IWI. No report, no evidence. Goes back to just because they wanted to.
Why on earth would the CCP Security Team publish how they found them out?
Do you seriously expect them to tell everyone the secret, just so everyone can find a way around it? |
Codie Rin
Comply Or Die
1
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Posted - 2016.10.12 20:08:18 -
[228] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:A few years ago I got so hooked on Somer Blink that I had a net loss of something like 20 billion ISK by the time I finally stopped. I was also really sore about how IWI was able to fund WWB against my (at the time) alliance. And obviously I don't think RMT should be allowed.
I don't think these are adequate reasons to ban third-party ISK gambling sites. I really don't play this game as much as I used to and I haven't used any gambling sites since I quit Blink, but I still think this is a pointless move and it only pisses off players who enjoyed this sort of thing.
its not about that though it was they got caught RMTing |
Aurure
some random local shitlords
8
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Posted - 2016.10.12 20:08:48 -
[229] - Quote
Toobo wrote:Querns wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:So ban RMT'ers and let the legit sites keep going is what you're saying?
Sites like the eve poker site that has existed for years?
I mean seriously boat, I know you're supposed to carry the hate boner flag for GSF after the war happened but this is dumb, people will still gamble, gambling has been in eve since time began, shutting down the sites that power the community wont do a damn thing to stop it and only serve to hurt the community.
In order for game balance to be restored, all gambling must perish. The game should not be dictated by who has the better out-of-game wealth concentration scheme. Your bloviating about the how casinos "power the community" is no different than Al Capone's soup kitchens. Although you are a goon and may have personal gripes with IWI, I do agree with you here. But this is a game balance issue to be discussed and phased out in correct steps to bring the game into good state. If CCP said no more gambling as we feel that this affects the game in negative ways, set times, give notices, and let things run its course for the improvement of the game, heck, I can accept that and say bye bye to ISK gambling. What's better for the game is good for all, so if CCP feels that banning ISK gambling is good for the game and the community concurs on that, fair enough. But my gripe is with the way handled this and pretty much screwed loads of people who did not break EULA in any ways.
This just in: These EULA changes go live next month, not today. So there's your time set and notice given.
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Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2543
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Posted - 2016.10.12 20:09:46 -
[230] - Quote
Codie Rin wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:A few years ago I got so hooked on Somer Blink that I had a net loss of something like 20 billion ISK by the time I finally stopped. I was also really sore about how IWI was able to fund WWB against my (at the time) alliance. And obviously I don't think RMT should be allowed.
I don't think these are adequate reasons to ban third-party ISK gambling sites. I really don't play this game as much as I used to and I haven't used any gambling sites since I quit Blink, but I still think this is a pointless move and it only pisses off players who enjoyed this sort of thing. its not about that though it was they got caught RMTing
Not just once, but twice. The first bans were, against the advice of Team Security, overturned.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Urziel99
Unified Research and Industrial
163
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Posted - 2016.10.12 20:12:01 -
[231] - Quote
Minerva Arbosa wrote:Elliott Spitzer wrote:Toobo wrote:If Iron is flagged as RMT (I have no reason to accuse him as such, but since they are doing blanket punishment on all involved, just for the virtue of involvement, not actual evidence of involvement) - then will CCP remove his SP too? Which was bought using ISK he made from IWI, which is now all of sudden judged to be involved with RMT, including down to Bankers who just got hired a few weeks ago?
WTF is going on seriously. What? They are doing this because there is a massive amount of evidence involved. There is no evidence as they can just do what they want why they want to. If there was evidence, then CCP would release reports on big items such as this and explain in wording how they found the link between RMT and IWI. No report, no evidence. Goes back to just because they wanted to.
Or they don't want to reveal how they know so the next guy covers their tracks better. They stand to lose out on plex purchases from compulsive gamblers. So they would want to have cause. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5308
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 20:13:26 -
[232] - Quote
Querns wrote:Codie Rin wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:A few years ago I got so hooked on Somer Blink that I had a net loss of something like 20 billion ISK by the time I finally stopped. I was also really sore about how IWI was able to fund WWB against my (at the time) alliance. And obviously I don't think RMT should be allowed.
I don't think these are adequate reasons to ban third-party ISK gambling sites. I really don't play this game as much as I used to and I haven't used any gambling sites since I quit Blink, but I still think this is a pointless move and it only pisses off players who enjoyed this sort of thing. its not about that though it was they got caught RMTing Not just once, but twice. The first bans were, against the advice of Team Security, overturned.
Ding-ding-ding....
Everybody seems to have forgotten the first round of bans.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Primary This Rifter
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
1210
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Posted - 2016.10.12 20:13:40 -
[233] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:A few years ago I got so hooked on Somer Blink that I had a net loss of something like 20 billion ISK by the time I finally stopped. I was also really sore about how IWI was able to fund WWB against my (at the time) alliance. And obviously I don't think RMT should be allowed.
I don't think these are adequate reasons to ban third-party ISK gambling sites. I really don't play this game as much as I used to and I haven't used any gambling sites since I quit Blink, but I still think this is a pointless move and it only pisses off players who enjoyed this sort of thing. Yeah, you're right RMT is not a sufficient reason to ban IWI. Might want to re-word that.... I'm not rewording it because that's not what I said. |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2543
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Posted - 2016.10.12 20:13:54 -
[234] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Querns wrote:Codie Rin wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:A few years ago I got so hooked on Somer Blink that I had a net loss of something like 20 billion ISK by the time I finally stopped. I was also really sore about how IWI was able to fund WWB against my (at the time) alliance. And obviously I don't think RMT should be allowed.
I don't think these are adequate reasons to ban third-party ISK gambling sites. I really don't play this game as much as I used to and I haven't used any gambling sites since I quit Blink, but I still think this is a pointless move and it only pisses off players who enjoyed this sort of thing. its not about that though it was they got caught RMTing Not just once, but twice. The first bans were, against the advice of Team Security, overturned. Ding-ding-ding.... Everybody seems to have forgotten the first round of bans. GBS Querns remembers.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Primary This Rifter
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
1210
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Posted - 2016.10.12 20:14:27 -
[235] - Quote
Codie Rin wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:A few years ago I got so hooked on Somer Blink that I had a net loss of something like 20 billion ISK by the time I finally stopped. I was also really sore about how IWI was able to fund WWB against my (at the time) alliance. And obviously I don't think RMT should be allowed.
I don't think these are adequate reasons to ban third-party ISK gambling sites. I really don't play this game as much as I used to and I haven't used any gambling sites since I quit Blink, but I still think this is a pointless move and it only pisses off players who enjoyed this sort of thing. its not about that though it was they got caught RMTing I'm talking about the EULA changes. |
Ruddger
Hmmzor. Muffins of Mayhem
2
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Posted - 2016.10.12 20:15:45 -
[236] - Quote
This is an absolute travesty. Gambling as been a part of this game since it's launch..... Big lottery.... Eoh poker... these are trusted organizations that have operated for many years....
To drag EOHpoker into this..... CCP you have no honor. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5308
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Posted - 2016.10.12 20:18:55 -
[237] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Codie Rin wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:A few years ago I got so hooked on Somer Blink that I had a net loss of something like 20 billion ISK by the time I finally stopped. I was also really sore about how IWI was able to fund WWB against my (at the time) alliance. And obviously I don't think RMT should be allowed.
I don't think these are adequate reasons to ban third-party ISK gambling sites. I really don't play this game as much as I used to and I haven't used any gambling sites since I quit Blink, but I still think this is a pointless move and it only pisses off players who enjoyed this sort of thing. its not about that though it was they got caught RMTing I'm talking about the EULA changes.
Which ones? The gambling part. Look, Valve just was told to knock off the gambling via their operations. Valve wasn't running the gambling sites, but the gambling sites were using Valve's API.
So, this change in the EULA is not surprising. Maybe IWI and others that were RMTing were not making as much money, but all it takes is one lawyer with some time on his hands.
Quote:The WSGC [Washington State Gambling Commission] contacted Valve about the use of CSGO skins in online gambling back in February 2016, initially "to determine if any additional action was needed." As a result of its investigation, the Commission has ordered Valve to "take whatever actions are necessary" to keep third-party sites from using the Steam platform to engage in skin gambling activities.-- source
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Minerva Arbosa
Astrocomical Warped Intentions
25
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Posted - 2016.10.12 20:22:48 -
[238] - Quote
Ginger Naari wrote:Minerva Arbosa wrote:Elliott Spitzer wrote:Toobo wrote:If Iron is flagged as RMT (I have no reason to accuse him as such, but since they are doing blanket punishment on all involved, just for the virtue of involvement, not actual evidence of involvement) - then will CCP remove his SP too? Which was bought using ISK he made from IWI, which is now all of sudden judged to be involved with RMT, including down to Bankers who just got hired a few weeks ago?
WTF is going on seriously. What? They are doing this because there is a massive amount of evidence involved. There is no evidence as they can just do what they want why they want to. If there was evidence, then CCP would release reports on big items such as this and explain in wording how they found the link between RMT and IWI. No report, no evidence. Goes back to just because they wanted to. Why on earth would the CCP Security Team publish how they found them out? Do you seriously expect them to tell everyone the secret, just so everyone can find a way around it?
Cause if they are so good, then you wouldn't get around it. Also considering supposedly how much ISK / $$ are lost, I wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't send out a legal request on the matter. I mean like if you were accused of doing something you wouldn't have a form letter sent out to CCP in order to see the evidence levied against you considering how much real money you spent on servers, characters in the game, advertising and all of the metrics it takes for search engines? I mean if I were doing it I wouldn't bother sending a letter of inquiry. I would be sending a letter stating they are getting sued in the court of the state I live in even though they are a company from across the pond, as the laws governing my state allow me to do such a thing. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5308
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 20:23:07 -
[239] - Quote
If CCP is making this move because of what recently happened in Washington state, the Grath Telkin has the wrong end of the stick. CCP did this because they do not want to get into a pissing match with State or even worse the Feds on your ass.
Maybe this will cause some bad unintended consequences whose magnitude nobody knows, but having the Feds getting involved is just bad.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Altalicious
State War Academy Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2016.10.12 20:23:59 -
[240] - Quote
Well, if these RMT guys are in the USA CCP could contact the IRS about their activity. Any RL money they made could be considered taxable income and subject to appropriate taxes. |
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