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TheBluey
Shadow Incursion The Initiative.
2
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Posted - 2016.10.14 14:54:20 -
[1] - Quote
I know changes to moon minerals are rumoured to be on the way but as I've been waiting patiently for what seems like years I thought IGÇÖd give my solution.
Background: I have seen this from both sides, I have maintained a couple of constellations of r32 moons which at the time was about 20B a month pure profit (after fuel) and this was largely operated by 2 guys, one jf in and out and one hauling to and from towers, this was by far and away the easiest, least time intensive risk free isk I have ever made. And this was without any reactions. That amount of free money is a Joke. "but it isn't free" I hear you say, "you have to take it and hold it". True, but this is the other half of the problem. With reinforcement timers and the fact you realistically need caps or a lot of people or uninterrupted time to take down a tower it encourages the rich to get richer. Nips to form, stagnation and as IGÇÖve seen it the place I used to love, the lawless null, is now safer than highsec.
Now as someone who roams solo or in small gangs I get to cover a lot of space and a large part of it is dead. What arenGÇÖt though are the countless moons that are being harvested, almost passively maybe not even by the people who live locally, many ratters don't even control the moons in the systems they use, the big slumlords do.
Moon siphons were a nice idea guys, but unless it's an r64, and letGÇÖs face it, unless it's a dysprosium moon, who's going to bother. Anyone who's seriously mining moon minerals uses the API to detect siphons and takes them out before they make a profit.
TLDR Moon mining is passive income for the strong and encourages NIPs and NAPs which is bad for fun
The Solution Make moon mining more raidable, reduce the capacity on silos and when they fill have an escorted npc hauler spawn.
Silos will have a capacity that is visible to all so the spawn can be roughly predicted. You set the destination station/citadel and corp hanger to deposit the goo. Haulers will never directly warp from tower to a station in the same system possibly have them warp to the planet first.
Haulers will warp gate to gate and will be stopped by bubbles and burn through them (side effect bye bye 100 bubbles on a gate)
No killmails generated
I expect this to mean that roaming fun seekers can generate kills and force people to live in their space and defend it Renters can kill the spawns themselves and blame it on "nasty roamers" while pocketing the isk A fairer distribution of moons, less concentration of people. More use of groups to be sent "behind enemy lines" to disrupt revenue streams
hauler strength / escort can be dependant on system indexes etc
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Cade Windstalker
575
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Posted - 2016.10.14 16:42:41 -
[2] - Quote
You lost me at "NPC"
Things like this should never result in PvE content or things being handled by NPCs. That just turns this into a really stupid escort mission, and we all know how much people *love* escort missions where the thing you're escorting has the brains of a sack of rusty hammers.
They don't. They hate them. On top of that you're basically creating an automated task that needs tending to. That's a massive pain and not something that's actually generating fun on either side. Roamers will, for the most part, either run across the spawns by luck or spend time waiting for one to spawn. Defenders either need to tend this sack of hammers on a timer, or they need to empty the thing manually to stop it from spawning ahead of the silo filling up.
None of this strikes me as good gameplay, it strikes me as a chore that's frustrating to deal with. The current syphons system is better than this and honestly that's not terribly good. |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
655
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Posted - 2016.10.14 17:03:08 -
[3] - Quote
No, moons should simply deplete over time, so you can't continually mine the same moons. The more you mine one, the less return you get every day. |
TheBluey
Shadow Incursion The Initiative.
2
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Posted - 2016.10.14 17:53:07 -
[4] - Quote
It's not intended to make people escort npcs, it's to make people maintain their space. I'd be even happier if they removed moon minerals altogether however then they'd put the minerals into anoms or something which are already botted despite what anyone says |
Cade Windstalker
576
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Posted - 2016.10.14 18:36:31 -
[5] - Quote
That may be your intent, but you're having NPCs spawn and that creates a "people escorting NPCs" situation. If you don't want that to happen then come up with some other mechanic, one that doesn't involve NPCs.
If CCP wants to make moon mining more involved there are tons of ways to potentially do that, not including the already long proposed and discussed idea of moving some or all of Moon Goo production to "Ring Mining".
As for the idea of making this stuff vulnerable, we already have siphons and associated mechanics. If you want to incentivize that more I'd suggest having it generate a loss mail saying "So and so lost X amount of stuff!". Don't even say who took it, just say who lost it. Suddenly there's an added incentive to harass moon mining.
Also, as a final side note, I'd like to point out that "Silos" and other POS modules used for moon mining are going to be going away at some point and be replaced by Citadel-style structures. |
TheBluey
Shadow Incursion The Initiative.
2
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Posted - 2016.10.14 18:59:48 -
[6] - Quote
Ah the much used "some point" I have a real fear that they will just replace the moon mining with a moon mining platform like a mini citadel, which are already killing roaming with their proliferation and the 0 fuel requirement Siphons are a nice idea but it's easily countered via the api. Or it used to be at least. |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
71
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Posted - 2016.10.15 00:30:53 -
[7] - Quote
Now while i cant say 100% for sure this is waht is planed. i asked the CCP devs when i was att fanfest in spring 2016 about changing the act of moon mining form a passive thing to a much more active activity in the form having the new winter drilling platforms use a service that spawns special moon ore steroids. wich people have to actively mine around the structure. and they did say maybe. they like the sound of chainging it from passive to active but its not 100% sure. so dont quote me. but its a possibility with the new drilling platforms so yeah. |
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