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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1903
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Posted - 2016.10.30 02:57:13 -
[61] - Quote
My opinion?
FWIW I would have them get a -95% role bonus to MWD sig bloom.
And have them ignore the cap penalty for fitting a MWD.
And that's it.
Then see what happens.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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DSpite Culhach
310
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Posted - 2016.10.30 07:30:58 -
[62] - Quote
Forgive my ignorance on the topic, but Isn't the gap between T1 and T2 frigs growing a little larger then it should already?
If T2 get a new boost, how many T1's will it take to kill one? We could probably at least then double that number if they are all Alpha players.
Kind of scary.
I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
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Tanthos
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
133
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Posted - 2016.10.30 09:45:08 -
[63] - Quote
Some good suggestions here. I don't see why most can't be implemented separately for each faction.
Minmatar AFs get web immunity. Gallente AFs get weapon disruptor immunity. Caldari AFs get ecm immunity. Amarr AFs get neutralizer immunity. |
Kethen T'val
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
23
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Posted - 2016.12.21 23:39:24 -
[64] - Quote
Tanthos wrote:Some good suggestions here. I don't see why most can't be implemented separately for each faction.
Minmatar AFs get web immunity. Gallente AFs get weapon disruptor immunity. Caldari AFs get ecm immunity. Amarr AFs get neutralizer immunity.
This is a good idea. Id like to see a small sig drop to this
EDIT: Oh I just mininecroed this. I rock! |
Rain6637
NulzSec
34589
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Posted - 2016.12.22 01:57:11 -
[65] - Quote
Tanthos wrote:Some good suggestions here. I don't see why most can't be implemented separately for each faction.
Minmatar AFs get web immunity. Gallente AFs get weapon disruptor immunity. Caldari AFs get ecm immunity. Amarr AFs get neutralizer immunity. yeah see amarr ships have these things called diodes and we also don't include the hull itself as our ground so
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels
37
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Posted - 2016.12.22 12:15:55 -
[66] - Quote
Remove t3 ships.
Problem solved |
Salvos Rhoska
1727
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Posted - 2016.12.22 13:13:44 -
[67] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Best buff AF can get is for T3D to get nerfed.
This.
The AF situation is indication of the downsides and existence of power-creeping.
Nerfing/naturalising over-performing ships is a more rational choice, than increasing power-creep by buffing AFs, which then cascades down onto other hulls being inadequate in relative comparison.
PvE v PvP
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Zimmy Zeta
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
59940
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Posted - 2016.12.22 17:17:08 -
[68] - Quote
Oh yay, necro thread..I love the smell of dead meat in the morning...
@ topic: I don't think AFs need a role bonus- that would only force them into a distinct, specialized role and I happen to like the fact that they are mostly versatile all rounders. But what needs to be done is take a good long look at each single AF and balance them on a ship by ship base- especially things like speed, PG and CPU should be adjusted for many ships. And when I say "many", I mainly mean the Jaguar. Sure, the eased fitting requirements for small arties helped a bit, and yet still I need perfect fitting skills and 2 fitting mods to fit the weapon system this ship was designed for. Adding insult to injury, here's CCP's official in game description of the Jag:
CCP wrote:The Jaguar is a versatile ship capable of reaching speeds unmatched by any other assault-class vessel. While comparatively weak on the defensive front it sports great flexibility, allowing pilots considerable latitude in configuring their loadouts for whatever circumstances they find themselves in. U WOT M8 ?????
I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it.
Yes, I do feel bad about it.
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Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
320
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Posted - 2016.12.22 17:28:03 -
[69] - Quote
AF needs to do what it's name suggests, it needs to be able to be right in the action. I'd see a rework route as having the AF as the lasting tackle against bigger ships, able to sig-tank with high resists helping mitigate damage. It would be the annoying fly that's impossible to swat without lighter support, holding a point on you. To do this it would probably need to have it's sigradius looked at and perhaps switching the MWD bonus for an AB speed bonus for better sig-tanking and sustain.
The interceptor is the ultra-high speed tackle for when you really want to catch something, the AF will be the frig of choice when you want to have a sturdy point on field for the length of the fight.
A case for more AoE in EvE
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Lady Ayeipsia
Perkone Caldari State
1278
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Posted - 2016.12.22 17:31:13 -
[70] - Quote
During my time in Red vs Blue, we had many Frigate only themed weekends. Some allowed only T1. Some allowed pirate and faction but no T2 drugs. Most allowed all.
One thing I saw repeatedly was that in weekends were T2 were not allowed, the pirate frigate reigned supreme. The problem with this was the cost of the pirate frigs. Those who could afford them had a great weekend. Those with less isk could only hope to fly in fleets and pray there was no all pirate frig fleet already out there.
Yet a strange thing happened when we allowed all frigs including T2. The dominance of the pirate frigs diminished. Yes they were still strong but the T2 could balance out against the faction. Yes Assault frigs are harder to skill into but the lower cost opened more doors for most players.
Given all that, the simplest way to fix Assault Frigs is to let T2 frigate into faction warfare Novice plexes. AFs gain a new role, pirate frigates in novice pieces have a counter, and AFs have a new place to play. |
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
465
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Posted - 2016.12.22 17:47:03 -
[71] - Quote
T3ds have nothing to do with AFs, Afs, sucked pre t3ds too. The reason AFs suck is cause they have the mobility of a t1 cruiser with bad performance stats while having no range.
But they are an extremely boring ship class so they are fine being obsolete. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18494
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Posted - 2016.12.22 17:56:17 -
[72] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:T3ds have nothing to do with AFs, Afs, sucked pre t3ds too. The reason AFs suck is cause they have the mobility of a t1 cruiser with bad performance stats while having no range.
But they are an extremely boring ship class so they are fine being obsolete.
AF were heavily used before t3d came around, to the point where they were an effective and much loved fleet doctrine. Pre T3D you could find many whine threads from people getting popped by the likes of the ishkur and the vengeance was a well known damage sponge.
T3D have invalidated a lot of ship classes from t1 frigates right up the the stabber. |
W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
465
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Posted - 2016.12.22 18:08:38 -
[73] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:W0lf Crendraven wrote:T3ds have nothing to do with AFs, Afs, sucked pre t3ds too. The reason AFs suck is cause they have the mobility of a t1 cruiser with bad performance stats while having no range.
But they are an extremely boring ship class so they are fine being obsolete. AF were heavily used before t3d came around, to the point where they were an effective and much loved fleet doctrine. Pre T3D you could find many whine threads from people getting popped by the likes of the ishkur and the vengeance was a well known damage sponge. T3D have invalidated a lot of ship classes from t1 frigates right up the the stabber.
Nope, pre t3d people flew dictors or pirate/faction frigates. The AF has been dead before t3ds were even there. Afs dont kite, afs arent fast enough to catch kiters, afs arent strong/small enough to outbrawl other brawlers, in a kiting meta that means no one ever uses the ships.
And t3ds havnt invalidated anything as such, the stabber in particular got a giant buff during svipul online days as it was one of the ships that killed t3ds for free (dual med neut brawling one). |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18494
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Posted - 2016.12.22 18:23:08 -
[74] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Nope, pre t3d people flew dictors or pirate/faction frigates. The AF has been dead before t3ds were even there. Afs dont kite, afs arent fast enough to catch kiters, afs arent strong/small enough to outbrawl other brawlers, in a kiting meta that means no one ever uses the ships.
So the few years where I had to adapt my megathon to fly in harpy fleet while they ripped other, far heavier fleets didn't happen? The dual MASB hawk and god tank vengeance were never complained about in FW? the Enyo didn't hit things like a hand grenade?
W0lf Crendraven wrote: And t3ds havnt invalidated anything as such, the stabber in particular got a giant buff during svipul online days as it was one of the ships that killed t3ds for free (dual med neut brawling one).
Stabber is out classed by the svipul even after the nerf. Hell, thanks to the added e-war resistance the only small ships that could mess with them have been neutered so there is nothing at or below destroyers than can compete now. |
nezroy
Nice Clan
46
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Posted - 2016.12.22 18:36:46 -
[75] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:New role: heavy tackle.
Immunity to warp scramble MWD shutoff Immunity to stais webifiers
Would rather they just got a ~100% AB speed bonus, like the sansha pirate ship line does. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18494
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Posted - 2016.12.22 18:40:20 -
[76] - Quote
nezroy wrote:Khan Wrenth wrote:New role: heavy tackle.
Immunity to warp scramble MWD shutoff Immunity to stais webifiers Would rather they just got a ~100% AB speed bonus, like the sansha pirate ship line does.
They were given an AB bonus, it lead to some horribly overpowered setups
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
465
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Posted - 2016.12.22 19:09:27 -
[77] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Nope, pre t3d people flew dictors or pirate/faction frigates. The AF has been dead before t3ds were even there. Afs dont kite, afs arent fast enough to catch kiters, afs arent strong/small enough to outbrawl other brawlers, in a kiting meta that means no one ever uses the ships.
So the few years where I had to adapt my megathon to fly in harpy fleet while they ripped other, far heavier fleets didn't happen? The dual MASB hawk and god tank vengeance were never complained about in FW? the Enyo didn't hit things like a hand grenade? W0lf Crendraven wrote: And t3ds havnt invalidated anything as such, the stabber in particular got a giant buff during svipul online days as it was one of the ships that killed t3ds for free (dual med neut brawling one).
Stabber is out classed by the svipul even after the nerf. Hell, thanks to the added e-war resistance the only small ships that could mess with them have been neutered so there is nothing at or below destroyers than can compete now.
Harpy fleets were a thing yes, but neither the hawk (after the asb nerf), the vengeance nor the enyo were ever considered that great, they did well when the only other thing that could enter a small was a t2 dessie, which pre dictor buffs were horrible. There was a short peroid of time when the AF was good, but then the cruiser buff happened - which took away the ability to easily beat cruisers, hmls got nerfed into the ground which killed the missile matchups (cause people were forced to use assault missiles/rlmls) and other ships were buffed within the small meta. A dictor will eat a AF alive, the comet beats most, as does the slicer and so on.
And lets not forget the double damp lml spam meta that covered a long time pre t3d where afs were totally ****.
Even CDs are massively superior to AFs (well to be fair, they are extremely OP, but solo pvpers dont all have link skills yet). |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18496
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Posted - 2016.12.22 20:21:58 -
[78] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Harpy fleets were a thing yes, but neither the hawk (after the asb nerf), the vengeance nor the enyo were ever considered that great, they did well when the only other thing that could enter a small was a t2 dessie, which pre dictor buffs were horrible. There was a short peroid of time when the AF was good, but then the cruiser buff happened - which took away the ability to easily beat cruisers, hmls got nerfed into the ground which killed the missile matchups (cause people were forced to use assault missiles/rlmls) and other ships were buffed within the small meta. A dictor will eat a AF alive, the comet beats most, as does the slicer and so on.
And lets not forget the double damp lml spam meta that covered a long time pre t3d where afs were totally ****.
Even CDs are massively superior to AFs (well to be fair, they are extremely OP, but solo pvpers dont all have link skills yet).
Highlighted the issue.
the problem isnt AF, its the extremely overpowered t3d they have added. Before these 4 ships were added we enjoyed the most balanced lineup in EVEs history. I loved my vengeance, it was a little sod to kill but t3d came along and simply out tank, out gun, fly faster and shoot at greater range. Much like their cruiser cousins t3d simply invalidate everything around them.
If you really want to see something that has been completely invalidated just look at the T1 destroyers. |
W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
465
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Posted - 2016.12.22 22:44:35 -
[79] - Quote
Have you actually played in fw space recently? T1 dessies beeing invalidated, are you serious? Have you flown AFs in lowsec pre t3ds? They were garbage. |
Mister Burns
Hedion University Amarr Empire
27
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Posted - 2016.12.23 01:35:00 -
[80] - Quote
Tanthos wrote:Gallente AFs get weapon disruptor immunity.
I'd rather have damp immunity. Weapon disrupt immunity would kind of suck for Ishkur.. |
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Omar Alharazaad
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
3097
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Posted - 2016.12.23 01:40:10 -
[81] - Quote
I absolutely love assault frigates. For my non-war related activities in high sec they are well suited to ruining someone else's day.
However, for serious work I just can't usually field one for many of the reasons given earlier in this thread. They're not fast enough for fast tackle, a ceptor does that better. Tanking stuff? I have either a T3, faction or T2 cruiser that I can depend on for that. Damage, same as above. Hell, the only reason I don't exclusively fly a HAM Legion is that it drives like a school bus.
I would like to see them become more useful in other venues, as they are a great deal of fun to fly.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18498
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Posted - 2016.12.23 11:26:17 -
[82] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Have you actually played in fw space recently? T1 dessies beeing invalidated, are you serious? They are extremely strong. Have you flown AFs in lowsec pre t3ds? They were garbage.
I flew them in null. |
W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
465
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Posted - 2016.12.24 01:41:56 -
[83] - Quote
Fair enough, AFs survived a bit longer in nullsec because dictors there are total shitfit (cause they carry a bubble and arent flying as t2 dessies) and as all fights happen at gates or stations you can get away from kiters - both of which doesnt happen in lowsec. So if anything starts kiting you you are dead. But its still mostly the faction frigs (why ever fly a enyo over a comet), gds (cause op) and dictors to a lesser degree (they are the shipcall t3ds killed, at leats in lowsec) that dominate the small meta. |
Tyrana McBitch
Pirate Cartel
0
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Posted - 2016.12.25 03:07:26 -
[84] - Quote
Jaguar, is great. An AB bonus would be nice, but still they are good. Solo or packs or PvE. |
Alaric Faelen
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
409
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Posted - 2016.12.25 19:35:17 -
[85] - Quote
I miss flying assault frigates. I also agree that some kind of EWAR immunity (or at least bonus against) would be a decent addition, perhaps some kind of immunity to neuts.
But the entire role needs to be redefined in my opinion.
A straight upgrade to tank/DPS is a poor 'role' for fleets. It immediately obsoletes anything smaller and infringes on anything larger in class. I'd like to see an entirely new fleet role for the AF to fill.
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
465
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Posted - 2016.12.26 00:03:41 -
[86] - Quote
Alaric Faelen wrote:I miss flying assault frigates. I also agree that some kind of EWAR immunity (or at least bonus against) would be a decent addition, perhaps some kind of immunity to neuts.
But the entire role needs to be redefined in my opinion.
A straight upgrade to tank/DPS is a poor 'role' for fleets. It immediately obsoletes anything smaller and infringes on anything larger in class. I'd like to see an entirely new fleet role for the AF to fill.
Especially because of the constant inflation, a plex used to be 300 million and it was much harder to earn isk, so the difference between 200k and 20million isk for a t1 and t2 frigate actually meant something, nowadays for whatever reason the t2 frigate still is 20 million but isk is so easy to make that there is no real monetary reason to not use t2. |
Aaron
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
436
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Posted - 2016.12.26 20:24:54 -
[87] - Quote
Myryaminda wrote:Hello Everyone.
I am sure everyone will be feeling that Assault Frigates are not really a ship to train in because it's role has been taken over by the T3 destroyers. As such I think it is time to brainstorm how to make the assault frigate a ship which is a viable option and different from the T3D's.
To calculate why and how it should change we have to look at the T3D's different roles. The AF used to be the small sniper or assault frigate that had a lot of tank. Both roles have been taken over by the T3D.
Although this is ofcourse a shortcut I think giving all AFs the same role bonus as the interceptor (immunity to interdiction spheres) would make it viable to train in it again.
Please let me know what you think of this idea.
T3Ds and AFs are different. The lower sig radius for AFs makes it harder to hit and the role bonus 50% reduction in microwarpdrive signature radius penalty for AFs can assist in keeping sig radius low for when you're fighting a battle cruiser sniper. AFs will always be in a class of their own in my opinion. Nothing needs to change with the AF and it is a good ship to train and pilot.
Train the AF in addition to the T3D.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
24
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Posted - 2017.01.08 06:16:35 -
[88] - Quote
The best suggestion I've heard for the Assault Frigate question was to make them the 'Masters of Overheating'. More powerful and maybe better sustained overheat capacity in which they compete or perhaps outperform their competition for a limited time.
A possible mechanic to accomplish this could be to allow AFs to enter a ship-wide overheat mode which literally burns and damages the hull on the ship. While in this mode all modules will operate in their overheat range, (with perhaps increased Cap and/or shield Regen), however the individual modules can also be overheated normally, thus allowing a 2X overheat bonus. All this means that these ships would have a limited window in which they are able to perform far beyond their standard. It also opens the door for strategic hull repair to refuel their burn/overheating capacity.
Choosing an Overheating option to fix them (even if it's not my suggested one) means the AF keeps a very Assault-like feel where it can be tanky, fast, and damaging, allows them to be used for various generalized purposes, makes them fun and challenging to pilot, and should not significantly overpower larger hulls that could likely provide better sustain, if less periodic burst capability. |
Rain6637
NulzSec
34737
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Posted - 2017.01.08 06:21:30 -
[89] - Quote
That's basically increasing stats. Wouldn't it be easier to do it the normal way with slightly improved regular stats?
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
24
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Posted - 2017.01.08 06:58:49 -
[90] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:That's basically increasing stats. Wouldn't it be easier to do it the normal way with slightly improved regular stats?
But if you permanently increase speed, damage, tank or utility you walk a very fine line before you simply overpower the other ships around you and hinder their usefulness. Making it a temporary bonus allows a much broader scope of ability you can endow the ship with. And while the temporary bonus of tank, damage and speed may be impressive, I think the utility module bonuses are really what would define this. Webs, Neuts, Scrams, Disruptors, ECM with a 2X overheat could allow these ships to temporarily act almost like role specific ships. This utility could really allow them to make their mark because you never know what their fitted for, or how they will 'Assault' you |
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