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Asmodai Xodai
Viziam Amarr Empire
97
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Posted - 2016.10.26 10:13:01 -
[1] - Quote
I don't post or read here a lot, so I have no idea what the consensus is on mini-games, whether they are well-received or not, etc. I don't even know whether this suggestion has ever been made before.
Anyway, it seems we have 'mini-games' now for data and relic analyzers. I thought (perhaps wrongly) that the same sort of thing could be, and perhaps should be, applied to salvage. Seems like the same sort of activity the other two activities used to be, e.g. currently you just try, and either it works or doesn't work. Seems like something that could be 'mini game-ified.'
It could be the same sort of mini-game as the other two, but just change the name of things that pop up on the grid. For instance a 'rusted (or seized) part' which must be overcome, or a short circuited or burned-out whatever.
We would need to figure out how salvage drones would work under the new system. I guess the sky is the limit on that, but I figured I'd throw the idea out there regardless. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45235
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Posted - 2016.10.26 10:17:26 -
[2] - Quote
The main issue I see with this suggestion is just the number of wrecks in a single combat site.
Salvaging would become a massive clickfest that would make PI clicking look like a recovery session for stress injury. Salvaging a single site would take 3-4 times longer than the killing took.
More killing, less clicking imho (and preferably of players ships, not rats).
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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roberts dragon
The Scope Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2016.10.26 10:21:21 -
[3] - Quote
you can on google play pac man if you are bored |
Asmodai Xodai
Viziam Amarr Empire
97
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Posted - 2016.10.26 10:47:24 -
[4] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:The main issue I see with this suggestion is just the number of wrecks in a single combat site.
Salvaging would become a massive clickfest that would make PI clicking look like a recovery session for stress injury. Salvaging a single site would take 3-4 times longer than the killing took.
Yes that would be a serious issue I agree. Some other mechanic would have to be devised other than the one being used now. |
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
18439
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Posted - 2016.10.26 11:36:21 -
[5] - Quote
I dont think salvaging must have minigame, I see it as fairly automatic process when even stupid drones can do it. Low effort, mass salvaging. Rigs need a lot of stuff. Its balanced. In relic sites u can use relic analyzer and you have minigame there so you can get some salvaging materials already by playing minigame there.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
653
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Posted - 2016.10.26 11:43:56 -
[6] - Quote
Just going back to my Astrahaus to switch out of my Gila to my salvaging ship is enough of a minigame for me.
@lunettelulu7
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Maneila Bekas
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2016.10.26 11:51:53 -
[7] - Quote
I have an Ares Ceptor fitted with T2 Salvage Rigs and 3x T2 Salvagers in the Highs, full Inertia fit.
Ninjasalvaging Elite Cruiser Wrecks and Dreadnought Wrecks while 200 Enemies are swarming around me. Or after a Fight happend and the enemy Frigates try to "protect" the lootfield...fast in and out :D
Don-¦t take that adrenaline Gameplay away from me, with a LasVegas Minigame i need to master first,...
Outnumbered, Outgunned
You have the Choice *Overheat your MWD and fly directly into the enemy pack with Guns blazing...and then, that silent moment only one Server Tick away...
"CYNO UP, CYNO UP - JUMP JUMP JUMP - Primary is ..."
*A BRAVE HERO
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Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
219
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Posted - 2016.10.26 12:24:33 -
[8] - Quote
No. We dont need to make simple mechanics more tedious. There is already more than enough grinding in EVE. |
Asmodai Xodai
Viziam Amarr Empire
97
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Posted - 2016.10.26 15:11:18 -
[9] - Quote
Quote:No. We don't need to make simple mechanics more tedious. There is already more than enough grinding in EVE.
Well naturally I don't want more tedious and more grind. I was just thinking of replacing a 'simplistic clicking' mechanic with something else, as they did with with data and relic stuff.
Perhaps this isn't the right suggestion, but we all just want the game to be better. These were simply my thoughts on how to do that in one small area. Would require more changes though, because salvage drones are already out there - what are they supposed to do? And as others said, we don't want to be playing mini-games out there on the field when there's 20+ wrecks, or worse, actual fighting going on.
Perhaps salvaging should merely return some hunk of 'stuff' to be put in the cargo hold and taken back to the station for further processing. That way drones can still work as they do now, etc. Perhaps the mini-game can be played back at the station where the 'stuff' has to be gone through and 'salvaged.'
Again, maybe this isn't the right idea. |
Tiberius NoVegas
Stellar Exploration Consortium
3
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Posted - 2016.10.26 15:24:12 -
[10] - Quote
I do like the idea of adding mini-games. I like the data/relic mini-game and especially the SOE mini-game despite not being very good at it.
I think adding a salvage mini-game is a bad idea for salvaging. I already take more time salvaging then killing so it will only get far worse if it also required a mini game. However I wouldn't mind exploring the concept of creating "salvage" sites, with special wrecks that require a mini game with slightly higher rewards then normal salvage. |
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Sameli Adelora
State War Academy Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2016.10.26 19:14:27 -
[11] - Quote
Salvage drones are your friends. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2553
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Posted - 2016.10.26 20:15:36 -
[12] - Quote
I, too, often wonder how a tedious, low-value activity could possibly be made even less attractive.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
391
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Posted - 2016.10.26 20:18:52 -
[13] - Quote
And here I thought the mini game was making the wrecks in the first place...
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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Vortexo VonBrenner
Raumfahrer Spiff Rakett Piloot Anslutning
2499
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Posted - 2016.10.26 21:31:31 -
[14] - Quote
As long as we're posting our ideas and feature suggestions in general discussion, please allow me to contribute my idea:
Everyone who wants this game to become even more of a click-fest than it already is gets their client set so that it takes 3 clicks to do what 1 click does now. Just want people to be happy. Enjoy.
EvE security zones in pictures
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Smoke me a Kipper...
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PopeUrban
El Expedicion Flames of Exile
166
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Posted - 2016.10.26 22:24:41 -
[15] - Quote
Unlike old hacking, In thing salvaging is interactive enough, simply because you're usually juggling multiple targets, salvagers, drones, and tractors.
Hacking I think needed the minigame treatment because all it involved was waiting on a single module to cycle.
if anything could use some active gameplay enhancement I think it would be mining, not salvaging. Having something you could do actively to increase yield/lower cycle time on strip miners and such would give miners something to do that would incentivize active rather than passive play and somewhat blunt the effect of AFK mining alts without completely removing their utility.
I also wouldn't be opposed to some kind of high stakes minigame for invention to somewhat modify success rating since it is an activity you don't do often and seems thematically appropriate that a player could "get better" at invention aside from training skills/buying cores. |
PopeUrban
El Expedicion Flames of Exile
167
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Posted - 2016.10.26 22:57:07 -
[16] - Quote
Tiberius NoVegas wrote:I do like the idea of adding mini-games. I like the data/relic mini-game and especially the SOE mini-game despite not being very good at it.
I think adding a salvage mini-game is a bad idea for salvaging. I already take more time salvaging then killing so it will only get far worse if it also required a mini game. However I wouldn't mind exploring the concept of creating "salvage" sites, with special wrecks that require a mini game with slightly higher rewards then normal salvage.
They have that already. It's called a relic site. |
Asmodai Xodai
Viziam Amarr Empire
97
|
Posted - 2016.10.27 00:51:12 -
[17] - Quote
PopeUrban wrote:Unlike old hacking, In thing salvaging is interactive enough, simply because you're usually juggling multiple targets, salvagers, drones, and tractors.
Hacking I think needed the minigame treatment because all it involved was waiting on a single module to cycle.
Perhaps you are right - you are already doing interactive stuff, not simply sitting there, or hitting 'click.' And at the end of the day, there are probably more important things to worry about feature-wise, content-wise, gameplay-wise, etc. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56886
|
Posted - 2016.10.28 05:27:41 -
[18] - Quote
First let me state for the record that I absolutely HATE the Hacking mini game and don't wanna see another version of it added to Eve.
Having said that, let's expand on the OP's idea.
CCP could easily have the Salvage Drones become mini tractors that automatically attach to and tow wrecks into a Salvage Net next to the players ship. After all wrecks are deposited into the Net, the Salvager module is activated which opens up a Salvage mini game. If completed successfully, the player gets 100% of the available salvage materials from each wreck placed into their ship cargohold. If unsuccessful, all the wrecks disappear and the player get's nothing.
No more RNG action for a percentage of the salvage material that's available from each wreck, just have it be all or none. The level of Skills, rigs, modules and ship bonus would affect the chance of being successful or not.
If you think about it, this would actually be quicker than the current game mechanic of activating a Salvager module and or Salvage Drones on each wreck. Sure the Salvage Drones do it automatically right now but it takes time since they have to travel to the wreck, attempt to salvage it which actually takes longer than the travel time and after a while if successful, they then return to the ship to deposit a small percentage of available materials and then travel to another wreck and repeat the whole process again..
The Noctis ships could be fitted with just one Salvager module with the rest of the high slots fit with Tractors. After pulling all wrecks into the Salvage Net, just activate the one Salvager module and within a few minutes of successfully completing the mini salvage game, warp out with 100% of all salvage materials available from each wreck.
And for those with low skills using sub par equipment .....................
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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DSpite Culhach
309
|
Posted - 2016.10.28 06:33:57 -
[19] - Quote
I'm pretty sure that the general idea would be something like:
* use the current system on (mostly) automatic and take X time to salvage everything
OR
* have a more interactive "salvage minigame" scenario that can't be automated/botted, and take X/2 or X/3 time (half the time or even less) to archive the same objective, when the player feels up to it.
I don't think the OP meant "let's scrap the existing system and make everyone work harder to do exactly the same thing".
Did he?
I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
401
|
Posted - 2016.10.28 13:02:02 -
[20] - Quote
DSpite Culhach wrote:I'm pretty sure that the general idea would be something like:
* use the current system on (mostly) automatic and take X time to salvage everything
OR
* have a more interactive "salvage minigame" scenario that can't be automated/botted, and take X/2 or X/3 time (half the time or even less) to archive the same objective, when the player feels up to it.
I don't think the OP meant "let's scrap the existing system and make everyone work harder to do exactly the same thing".
Did he?
Re-reading his post, I'm gathering that he meant to replace the whole system with a mini-game, otherwise why the bit about the drones.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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Naela Hexa
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.10.28 15:18:42 -
[21] - Quote
I love the Data/relic mini games. But I agree with the others that Salvaging as it is would take waaay too long. it is the right amount of time now, imho.
I wouldn't mind a Hacking min-game where you actually hack each others ships though. Even in Hi-sec.
What do you get? I dunno,..maybe make some new items . Sort of like pickpocketing. Can't be anything crazy due to griefing. Maybe you can force an overheat on someone or disable overheating.
Players can set up some defenses as well to thwart potential ship hackers.
or turn Ship and cargo scanning into that mini game in stead. |
Honzas Krutas
Czech Interstellar Incorporated
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.29 05:05:42 -
[22] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote:Quote:No. We don't need to make simple mechanics more tedious. There is already more than enough grinding in EVE. Well naturally I don't want more tedious and more grind. I was just thinking of replacing a 'simplistic clicking' mechanic with something else, as they did with with data and relic stuff. Perhaps this isn't the right suggestion, but we all just want the game to be better. These were simply my thoughts on how to do that in one small area. Would require more changes though, because salvage drones are already out there - what are they supposed to do? And as others said, we don't want to be playing mini-games out there on the field when there's 20+ wrecks, or worse, actual fighting going on. Perhaps salvaging should merely return some hunk of 'stuff' to be put in the cargo hold and taken back to the station for further processing. That way drones can still work as they do now, etc. Perhaps the mini-game can be played back at the station where the 'stuff' has to be gone through and 'salvaged.' Again, maybe this isn't the right idea. I like the idea and the problems others outlines could be easily solved by removing the 100% of dropping the wreck and make it say 10% and increase the salvage worth of the wreck by ten times.
With such setup I would take the minigame instead of the current way of how it works.
Problem is, the ships/modules specialized for salvaging would not have so much use if this was done... |
Lathael
Liga der aussergewoehnlichen Tattergreise Evictus.
41
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Posted - 2016.10.29 06:12:54 -
[23] - Quote
As far as I understand is salvaging a low risk activity and should therefore be low rewarding.
The loot is not very rewarding so it seems to be okay for me. Increasing the time needed makes it just less appealing.
In my eyes the current state is fine, but if you want to change something, I would like to see modules that help me to optimize that activity (time is money).
For example an automatic wreck targeter (=less clicks). |
Nomistrav
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
336
|
Posted - 2016.10.29 06:29:16 -
[24] - Quote
I agree that Salvaging mini-games would make it a bit arduous, but I would like to play with the idea a bit though.
If you think about what Salvaging is, as a whole, it is simply the act of finding usable things in an otherwise useless wreck. Yet, despite this, the role of the salvager is more squeezing every ISK out of a wreck and cleaning up trash. There's not really a progressive path toward the Noctis, and once you've skilled into it there's nothing to strive to beyond it. Except maybe the Porpoise, or whatever its called (I haven't looked into the new one).
With that in mind, rather than, say, a mini-game, I'd much rather see something that pertains to active fitting and building of a salvager ship for a particular purpose, and perhaps a progression into it. Current gameplay allows for anyone to pull functional modules off of wrecks and, if they care to do so, salvage those wrecks for additional components. Wouldn't it be more engaging and make more sense to allow salvagers to have a degree of success over the general player base to find functional modules within the salvage? Wouldn't it be more engaging and make more sense to have, say, a salvaging frigate that you can use while you skill into a Noctis?
A good example of this would be the L4 mission which you can tractor beam in a wreck, loot it, go about your daily. IMO, would make salvaging a lot more interesting if you had a chance to maybe find something that you normally couldn't with traditional looting. Maybe a functional turret that the other guy missed.
Anyway, just my input. Probably erroneous in some parts because I haven't actively played Eve with any real dedication in a while x3
EDIT: Another idea, maybe have types of salvager modules that work better for different things. Have one that specializes in bulk salvaging for a lot of wrecks with no real clear-cut specialty, another one that specializes in finding more of a particular type of salvage, or even one that specializes in finding more functional modules like what I mentioned above.
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Pod and Planet Fiction Contest YC114
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56890
|
Posted - 2016.10.30 04:38:20 -
[25] - Quote
Wow, seems nobody bothered to read the idea I posted on this topic.
I think it was a good compromise between the OP's proposed Salvage mini game and the current Salvaging mechanic. It would make clearing wrecks much faster and give access to more of the available salvage material contained within the actual wreck.
Current game mechanic for amount of materials gained from salvaging wrecks is based on an RNG percentage of what's actually available from each specific wreck. Nobody can collect up all of the Salvage Materials needed to manufacture a large quantity of Rigs and almost always has to purchase some from the Markets. The plan I posted would change it to all or nothing allowing players to become more self sufficient, not to mention make Salvaging much more faster and better. Don't know why CCP insists on having the wrecks drop 1 unit of Metal Scraps. That is just a slap in the face.
Listed below is what the T1 NPC Rats actually contain.
Angel Alloyed Tritanium Bar Armor Plates Burned Logic Circuit Charred Micro Circuit Contaminated Nanite Compound Fried Interface Circuit Malfunctioning Shield Emitter Smashed Trigger Unit Thruster Console Tripped Power Circuit
Blood Raider Armor Plates Burned Logic Circuit Charred Micro Circuit Contaminated Nanite Compound Defective Current Pump Fried Interface Circuit Melted Capacitor Console Tangled Power Conduit Tripped Power Circuit
Guristas Burned Logic Circuit Charred Micro Circuit Conductive Polymer Damaged Artificial Neural Network Fried Interface Circuit Malfunctioning Shield Emitter Scorched Telemetry Processor Tripped Power Circuit
Sansha Armour Plates Burned Logic Circuit Charred Micro Circuit Contaminated Nanite Compound Defective Current Pump Fried Interface Circuit Melted Capacitor Console Tangled Power Conduit Tripped Power Circuit
Serpentis Armor Plates Broken Drone Transceivers Burned Logic Circuit Charred Micro Circuit Conductive Polymer Contaminated Lorentz Fluid Contaminated Nanite Compound Damaged Artificial Neural Network Fried Interface Circuit Malfunctioning Shield Emitters Tripped Power Circuit
Rogue Drones All Types
With high skill and top equipment, players should be able to collect all of the materials available from each wreck instead of just a few items.
This is a list of all T1 and T2 Salvage Materials. There's also a list of Sleeper Salvage Materials too but I've spent too much time on this already.
T1 Salvage Materials Alloyed Tritanium Bar Armor Plates Broken Drone Transceivers Burned Logic Circuit Charred Micro Circuit Conductive Polymer Contaminated Lorentz Fluid Contaminated Nanite Compound Damaged Artificial Neural Network Defective Current Pump Fried Interface Circuit Malfunctioning Shield Emitter Melted Capacitor Console Scorched Telemetry Processor Smashed Trigger Unit Tangled Power Conduit Thruster Console Tripped Power Circuit Ward Console
T2 Salvage Materials Artificial Neural Network Capacitor Console Conductive Thermoplastic Current Pump Drone Transceiver Enhanced Ward Console Impetus Console Intact Armor Plates Intact Shield Emitter Interface Circuit Logic Circuit Lorentz Fluid Micro Circuit Nanite Compound Power Circuit Power Conduit Single-crystal Superalloy I-beam Telemetry Processor Trigger Unit
Since there's not a lot of Overseer and Commander NPC's and due to the RNG percentage for loot drop, T2 Salvage Materials are even tougher to gather up. With high skill and top equipment, players should be able to collect all the T2 Salvage Material available from T2 NPC's.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Tiberius NoVegas
Stellar Exploration Consortium
12
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Posted - 2016.10.30 04:45:43 -
[26] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Wow, seems nobody bothered to read the idea I posted on this topic. I think it was a good compromise between the OP's proposed Salvage mini game and the current Salvaging mechanic. It would make clearing wrecks much faster and give access to more of the available salvage material contained within the actual wreck. Current game mechanic for amount of materials gained from salvaging wrecks is based on an RNG percentage of what's actually available from each specific wreck. Nobody can collect up all of the Salvage Materials needed to manufacture a large quantity of Rigs and almost always has to purchase some from the Markets. The plan I posted would change it to all or nothing allowing players to become more self sufficient, not to mention make Salvaging much more faster and better. Don't know why CCP insists on having the wrecks drop 1 unit of Metal Scraps. That is just a slap in the face. Listed below is what the T1 NPC Rats actually contain. AngelAlloyed Tritanium Bar Armor Plates Burned Logic Circuit Charred Micro Circuit Contaminated Nanite Compound Fried Interface Circuit Malfunctioning Shield Emitter Smashed Trigger Unit Thruster Console Tripped Power Circuit Blood RaiderArmor Plates Burned Logic Circuit Charred Micro Circuit Contaminated Nanite Compound Defective Current Pump Fried Interface Circuit Melted Capacitor Console Tangled Power Conduit Tripped Power Circuit GuristasBurned Logic Circuit Charred Micro Circuit Conductive Polymer Damaged Artificial Neural Network Fried Interface Circuit Malfunctioning Shield Emitter Scorched Telemetry Processor Tripped Power Circuit SanshaArmour Plates Burned Logic Circuit Charred Micro Circuit Contaminated Nanite Compound Defective Current Pump Fried Interface Circuit Melted Capacitor Console Tangled Power Conduit Tripped Power Circuit SerpentisArmor Plates Broken Drone Transceivers Burned Logic Circuit Charred Micro Circuit Conductive Polymer Contaminated Lorentz Fluid Contaminated Nanite Compound Damaged Artificial Neural Network Fried Interface Circuit Malfunctioning Shield Emitters Tripped Power Circuit Rogue DronesAll Types With high skill and top equipment, players should be able to collect all of the materials available from each wreck instead of just a few items. This is a list of all T1 and T2 Salvage Materials. There's also a list of Sleeper Salvage Materials too but I've spent too much time on this already. T1 Salvage MaterialsAlloyed Tritanium Bar Armor Plates Broken Drone Transceivers Burned Logic Circuit Charred Micro Circuit Conductive Polymer Contaminated Lorentz Fluid Contaminated Nanite Compound Damaged Artificial Neural Network Defective Current Pump Fried Interface Circuit Malfunctioning Shield Emitter Melted Capacitor Console Scorched Telemetry Processor Smashed Trigger Unit Tangled Power Conduit Thruster Console Tripped Power Circuit Ward Console T2 Salvage MaterialsArtificial Neural Network Capacitor Console Conductive Thermoplastic Current Pump Drone Transceiver Enhanced Ward Console Impetus Console Intact Armor Plates Intact Shield Emitter Interface Circuit Logic Circuit Lorentz Fluid Micro Circuit Nanite Compound Power Circuit Power Conduit Single-crystal Superalloy I-beam Telemetry Processor Trigger Unit Since there's not a lot of Overseer and Commander NPC's and due to the RNG percentage for loot drop, T2 Salvage Materials are even tougher to gather up. With high skill and top equipment, players should be able to collect all the T2 Salvage Material available from T2 NPC's. DMC
An all or nothing concept for salvage loot may end up jsut flooding the market with material. I would okay with just increasing the drop rate. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56890
|
Posted - 2016.10.30 08:58:22 -
[27] - Quote
Tiberius NoVegas wrote: An all or nothing concept for salvage loot may end up jsut flooding the market with material. I would okay with just increasing the drop rate.
Well, I've been salvaging wrecks for about as long as I've been playing and rarely ever sell the materials I get. I actually wanted to do Rig production a long time ago but getting the materials is a long process. I did do a little bit of production and buying the items from the market makes it hard to actually make a profit.
As I stated earlier, I definitely don't like the mini game associated with Hacking but if the same type of game was set for salvaging, I would gladly do it if it gave 100% of the available materials from each wreck. Course that would be with high skill level using top equipment.
Anyway, guess I'll just continue to stockpile the salvage I get.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
364
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Posted - 2016.10.30 10:12:38 -
[28] - Quote
why does everyone think game play would be better with mini-games? this isn't Final Fantasy where you need to do some event to complete a storyline. Ive seen ideas for mini-games in mining too. Soon people will want mini-games before you engage in combat.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Keno Skir
854
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Posted - 2016.10.30 16:01:41 -
[29] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote:PopeUrban wrote:Unlike old hacking, In thing salvaging is interactive enough, simply because you're usually juggling multiple targets, salvagers, drones, and tractors.
Hacking I think needed the minigame treatment because all it involved was waiting on a single module to cycle. Perhaps you are right - you are already doing interactive stuff, not simply sitting there, or hitting 'click.' And at the end of the day, there are probably more important things to worry about feature-wise, content-wise, gameplay-wise, etc.
You just won ALL the forum points by making a suggesting, receiving negative feedback and adjusting your view accordingly rather than refusing to listen to anyone and trying to force your point.
Kudos. +1
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56891
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Posted - 2016.10.30 19:57:04 -
[30] - Quote
Agondray wrote:why does everyone think game play would be better with mini-games? this isn't Final Fantasy where you need to do some event to complete a storyline. Ive seen ideas for mini-games in mining too. Soon people will want mini-games before you engage in combat. Personally I don't want to do mini games but I do want to collect all of the Salvage Materials available in each wreck, not get a low RNG percentage amount of what's available.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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