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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
14554
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Posted - 2016.10.26 14:31:47 -
[1] - Quote
Hello folks!
This thread will cover the upcoming changes to Tactical Destroyers in Ascension and the associated change to Small Artillery powergrid requirements.
I want to start by giving a shout-out to the members of the Tactical Destroyers focus group that has been very helpful in planning these changes. This focus group consists of a combination of volunteers collected from an open call for applications (on the forums) and any CSM members that wished to join in. If you're not familiar with the CCP focus group program, all the logs of our discussions with the focus groups can be found at https://focusgrouplogs.tech.ccp.is/ for full transparency. Focus group member Suitonia has published some excellent articles about his experience with the focus group so far here and here.
To go along with these changes we are also making an adjustment to the powergrid requirements of Small Artillery weapons. This is paired with a reduction in powergrid for the Svipul, so the end result is that arty Svipuls will be about as hard to fit as today, autocannon Svipuls will get tighter fittings, and all non-Svipul small arty ships will get easier fittings.
- All Small Artillery: -2 PWG
As for the Tactical Destroyers themselves, here's a summary of the changes:
Adding a damage bonus to sharpshooter mode and reducing other damage bonuses to compensate: This is intended to encourage more mode switching and help create more room for high-skill T3D pilots to really shine, while generally reducing the overall powerlevel a bit. While running Defensive or Propulsion mode all four ships will do noticeably less damage than the current baseline. While in Sharpshooter mode the Hecate and Jackdaw damage will go up a bit, and the Svipul and Confessor will drop a tad.
Removing the sharpshooter scan resolution bonus, adding a new Dampener and Weapon Disruptor resistance bonus in its place: This is primarily intended to reduce the power of instalocking T3Ds, while enhancing the Sharpshooter mode's strengths against hostile electronic warfare.
Replacing the Confessor and Svipul propulsion mode base speed bonuses with a AB/MWD speed boost bonus: This change makes MWD Confessors and Svipuls more vulnerable to scrambling and makes their Propulsion mode a bit more situational. Suitonia wrote up a very good article about his view on this change here.
Reducing the PWG requirements of small artillery weapons, and reducing the PWG on the Svipul: In the context of T3Ds, this primarily helps reduce the power of autocannon Svipuls since they no longer need to have so much excess powergrid to be able to fit artillery. Having a fair bit of PWG free when using autocannons is a normal and intended Minmatar strength, but it can become a problem when it goes too far (and this was one of those times).
Moving a midslot to a lowslot on the Jackdaw. This is bound to be a fairly controversial change, and it was the last one added to the plan for this expansion. The intention here is to generally buff the Jackdaw by opening up more options for damage and mobility through the lowslot, while reducing some of the very extreme tanks. I'm very interested in hearing what the community thinks about this proposal, so please let us know if you have an opinion on either side.
Some speed, mass, hitpoint and signature tweaks: These changes generally represent a moderate nerf for the Svipul, a small nerf for the Confessor and small buffs for the Jackdaw and Hecate.
And here are the proposed ship stats and bonuses in full:
CONFESSOR Amarr Tactical Destroyer Bonuses Per Level: 5% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage (Was 10% per level) 10% reduction in Small Energy Turret capacitor use 5% reduction in heat damage generated by modules Role Bonus: 33% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage (Was 50%) 95% reduction in Scan Probe Launcher CPU requirements
Additional bonuses are available when one of three Tactical Destroyer Modes are active. Modes may be changed no more than once every 10 seconds. Defense Mode: 33.3% bonus to all armor resistances while Defense Mode is enabled 33.3% reduction in ship signature radius while Defense Mode is enabled Propulsion Mode: 66.6% bonus to Afterburner and Microwarpdrive speed boost while Propulsion Mode is enabled (Was base speed increase) 33.3% bonus to ship inertia modifier while Propulsion Mode is enabled Sharpshooter Mode: 66.6% bonus to Small Energy Turret optimal range while Sharpshooter Mode is enabled 33.3% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage while Sharpshooter Mode is enabled (New) 100% bonus to sensor strength and targeting range while Sharpshooter Mode is enabled (Previously included scan resolution) 66.6% increased resistances against hostile Sensor Dampeners and Weapon Disruptors while Sharpshooter Mode is enabled (New)
Slot layout: 6H, 3M, 5L, 4 turrets 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 62 PWG, 180 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull): 600 / 800 / 750 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 800 / 320s / 2.5 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 230 (-5) / 3 (+0.3) / 1,800,000 (-200,000) / 4.5 / 7.49s Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 45km / 520 (+195) / 7 Sensor strength: 13 Radar Signature radius: 65 (+5) Cargo capacity: 400 SVIPUL Minmatar Tactical Destroyer Bonuses Per Level: 5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret damage (Was 10% per l...
Game Designer | Team Five-0
Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
14554
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Posted - 2016.10.26 14:31:53 -
[2] - Quote
Reserved
Game Designer | Team Five-0
Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
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Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc.
1541
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Posted - 2016.10.26 14:43:56 -
[3] - Quote
very nice! |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3055
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Posted - 2016.10.26 15:04:52 -
[4] - Quote
What is the reasonining behind to keep the effortless instawarp capabilities of Jackdaw and Hecate while removing the mode-switch-trick from the Svipul and Confessor?
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Soleil Fournier
Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture
171
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Posted - 2016.10.26 15:07:54 -
[5] - Quote
Looks very well thought out. |
Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
3573
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Posted - 2016.10.26 15:09:32 -
[6] - Quote
Good to see that it is being attended to. I think the slot shift in the Jackdaw will be a good one.
Thanks to the people who actually survived all the focus group sessions.
m
Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
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Suitonia
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers Top Tier
712
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Posted - 2016.10.26 15:37:36 -
[7] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:What is the reasonining behind to keep the effortless instawarp capabilities of Jackdaw and Hecate while removing the mode-switch-trick from the Svipul and Confessor?
The Jackdaw doesn't have sub 2 second align unless you have a 4% Agility Implant, or nano/agility rig, or Geno set.
Contributer to Eve is Easy:
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Erik Kalkoken
VOLTAGE REGULATORS No Handlebars.
31
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Posted - 2016.10.26 15:54:01 -
[8] - Quote
RIP Insta Gate camp Svipul
I will miss this gameplay. Enjoyed it a lot. Especially solo.
Alliance Facebok page - Check out my blog - Find me on zKillboard
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Gneeznow
Ship spinners inc
194
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Posted - 2016.10.26 15:59:31 -
[9] - Quote
Changes look nice but I'm not sure what to make of the Jackdaw changes, seems like a nerf for an already underpowered ship. I mean, why reduce the Jackdaw damage from 5% down to 3%? Its damage was already terrible compared to the others. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
779
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Posted - 2016.10.26 16:03:26 -
[10] - Quote
As someone who doesnt fly T3Ds (just kils them), im more excited for small artillery changes. Jag, wolf, slasher, dram, claw, thrasher and sabre fits are all opened up for a new meta. It will be glorious.
I am happy the svipul got beat down some, will be nice not seeing just T3Ds when i roam.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3055
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Posted - 2016.10.26 16:03:47 -
[11] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:What is the reasonining behind to keep the effortless instawarp capabilities of Jackdaw and Hecate while removing the mode-switch-trick from the Svipul and Confessor? The Jackdaw doesn't have sub 2 second align unless you have a 4% Agility Implant, or nano/agility rig, or Geno set. Erm ... a single T1 poly rig makes it instawarp. Don't think this is a big sacrifice.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1275
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Posted - 2016.10.26 16:44:41 -
[12] - Quote
I still think the hecate will be kind of trashy and awkward after this. I think its problem is it's only competitive solo. it can't make a buffer tank that benefits from logi or that can have a fight and then not go back to station after. it's limited to 1 type of prop mod (I guess I'd be more into this if the pointless cap usage bonus was swapped to something fun like mwd overheat amount). and again we have this awkward thing with an optimal range bonus for blasters. if I'm loading null or void, it's only affecting half of my range, and if I'm loading antimatter, it's only affecting a quarter of my range. I was hoping with the 'generic' range bonuses on battlecruisers we'd be past this
svipul confessor still have quite a bit more base speed than jackdaw hecate, why?
I think 66% resistance to ewar is crazy high. kind of like what capitals get, it basically means you're ewar immune, but ewar people can still get on your lossmail
I was really hoping for some kind of tank mode nerf to fix destroyers with 26k ehp all in regenerating shields with huge resists
the rest is ok I guess. that arty grid change is really odd. we're already playing long range guns online, why more buffs? |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
779
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Posted - 2016.10.26 17:09:43 -
[13] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote: that arty grid change is really odd. we're already playing long range guns online, why more buffs?
Because small arty grid was never rebalanced with rest of artillery. Also the grid change to arty was needed to make certain arty svipul fits still viable since svipul is losing grid to help curb those dual MSE or 10mn ac fits. Which were caused by the huge disparity between ac and arty fitting needs.
Also, you dont seem to realize long range small guns were mainly lasers, rails and missiles. Very few minny frigate/dessies could fit arty in any viable pvp fit (minus svipul). Theyve been behind the curve for awhile. Now, the jag, wolf, rifter, slasher, claw, dram, sabre and thrasher have wiggle room for new fits/meta.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
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Morrigan LeSante
Black Omega Security Circle-Of-Two
1552
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Posted - 2016.10.26 17:15:06 -
[14] - Quote
You're giving the jackdaw another low, but no CPU to go with it? |
Darrien
Ouroboros Logistics
27
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Posted - 2016.10.26 17:16:59 -
[15] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:You're giving the jackdaw another low, but no CPU to go with it?
No they're moving a mid slot to a low slot. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1275
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Posted - 2016.10.26 17:18:37 -
[16] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote: that arty grid change is really odd. we're already playing long range guns online, why more buffs? Because small arty grid was never rebalanced with rest of artillery. Also the grid change to arty was needed to make certain arty svipul fits still viable since svipul is losing grid to help curb those dual MSE or 10mn ac fits. Which were caused by the huge disparity between ac and arty fitting needs. Also, you dont seem to realize long range small guns were mainly lasers, rails and missiles. Very few minny frigate/dessies could fit arty in any viable pvp fit (minus svipul). Theyve been behind the curve for awhile. Now, the jag, wolf, rifter, slasher, claw, dram, sabre and thrasher have wiggle room for new fits/meta.
double mse svipul will only need to lose 1 of its 3 gyros or 1 of its 3 tank rigs
and yeah, even more scram kiters. even on ships that are really obviously supposed to fit autocannons. joy :( |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
779
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Posted - 2016.10.26 18:05:21 -
[17] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote: that arty grid change is really odd. we're already playing long range guns online, why more buffs? Because small arty grid was never rebalanced with rest of artillery. Also the grid change to arty was needed to make certain arty svipul fits still viable since svipul is losing grid to help curb those dual MSE or 10mn ac fits. Which were caused by the huge disparity between ac and arty fitting needs. Also, you dont seem to realize long range small guns were mainly lasers, rails and missiles. Very few minny frigate/dessies could fit arty in any viable pvp fit (minus svipul). Theyve been behind the curve for awhile. Now, the jag, wolf, rifter, slasher, claw, dram, sabre and thrasher have wiggle room for new fits/meta. double mse svipul will only need to lose 1 of its 3 gyros or 1 of its 3 tank rigs and yeah, even more scram kiters. even on ships that are really obviously supposed to fit autocannons. joy :(
Still an improvement, plus it loses dps unless in sharpshooter mode.
Since when have minmatar ever been an in your face brawling faction? Acs are mid range weapons, blasters are close range. Rifters scram kite (albeit terribly) already with acs. As do arty thrashers (that arent instalock fit). Jag is meant to scram kite. Wolf is arguably an in your face brawler, just has a poor slot layout.
The great thing about EVE is that no ship is "supposed" to fit anything, its all up to what the person wants to fly. Minny ships arent known to be robust to throw themselves into the guns of your hecate. So range control is kind of their thing.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1275
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Posted - 2016.10.26 18:31:11 -
[18] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote: Since when have minmatar ever been an in your face brawling faction? Acs are mid range weapons, blasters are close range. Rifters scram kite (albeit terribly) already with acs. As do arty thrashers (that arent instalock fit). Jag is meant to scram kite. Wolf is arguably an in your face brawler, just has a poor slot layout.
The great thing about EVE is that no ship is "supposed" to fit anything, its all up to what the person wants to fly. Minny ships arent known to be robust to throw themselves into the guns of your hecate. So range control is kind of their thing.
we're already playing scram kiting, kiting and alpha -online. I thought people would like to not see more of it
many ships have particular leanings, determined by their bonuses and attributes. at least some of the ships you mentioned should be able to do well with autocannons, but don't. an artillery fitting buff is no good there. saying small autos are meant to scram kite is kind of silly tbh. yes you'll scram kite against blasters, but you will not scram kite against rails or rockets. they've just been a bit left behind by all the power creep |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Tactical-Retreat
2092
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Posted - 2016.10.26 19:25:20 -
[19] - Quote
I like these changes... Except for the Jackdaw. It really didn't need a DPS nerf outside of sharpshooter mode.
If it's going to be less tanky and forced to stay outside of defense/propulsion mode to do decent damages, then at the very least its anemic damage outside of sharpshooter mode should have been kept identical. The Jackdaw is already the slowest, weakest, 'awkwardest' T3D... Not cool.
For some reason, it also lacks an utility high.
I'm not saying that the Jackdaw is worthless, its agility and reload time especially make it very "comfortable" and somewhat fun to fly... But the illusion doesn't last long, as it is clearly outclassed by other T3Ds when it comes to fighting stuff. Which is what these ships are all about.
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr
Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1438
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Posted - 2016.10.26 20:42:47 -
[20] - Quote
Erik Kalkoken wrote:RIP Insta Gate camp Svipul
I will miss this gameplay. Enjoyed it a lot. Especially solo.
And nobody will miss you..
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them.
This is the law
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1438
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Posted - 2016.10.26 20:44:42 -
[21] - Quote
There must be a typo on the Confessor stats. It says mass 1.800.000 (-200.000) and you clearly meant 1.500.000 (-500.000).
But no worries, I caught it in time.
Yours truly.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them.
This is the law
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Marian Devers
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
90
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Posted - 2016.10.26 21:38:06 -
[22] - Quote
oh man!
Cant wait to fly the improved Jackdaw so I can start locking ships at the blistering speed that 350mm scan resolution provides!
Thats 8 seconds to lock a light drone, and 6 sec to lock a frigate. Perfect. |
Raido Kudonen
EVE University Ivy League
6
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Posted - 2016.10.26 22:53:46 -
[23] - Quote
Jackdaw and Hecate should probably keep their RoF bonuses at 5% per level, because the Jackdaw's DPS is frankly terrible compared to the other T3Ds and the Hecate's only real strong point is damage (since it can be easily kited by a T1 cruiser with a scram and web). |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2756
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Posted - 2016.10.26 22:58:27 -
[24] - Quote
I look forward to seeing these on TQ.
Thank you to CCP and the Focus Group participants for what look to be solid changes.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
738
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Posted - 2016.10.27 00:24:02 -
[25] - Quote
Looks good. I think this strikes a fair balance. Some fairly big nerfs whilst not nerfing them to oblivion.
Switching the damage bonus to the sharpshooter mode and switching the speed bonus to the AB MWD are very good solutions.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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xXxNIMRODxXx
Crusader Brewery
38
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Posted - 2016.10.27 00:47:48 -
[26] - Quote
Took you only 2 years of tears to actually do something. Congrats on the nerf on the Jackdaw, as if it wasn't already in a niche place.... |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1438
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Posted - 2016.10.27 07:05:17 -
[27] - Quote
Marian Devers wrote:oh man!
Cant wait to fly the improved Jackdaw so I can start locking ships at the blistering speed that 350mm scan resolution provides!
Thats 8 seconds to lock a light drone, and 6 sec to lock a frigate. Perfect.
You and your blobb-muppets should just stay silent.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them.
This is the law
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Luscius Uta
239
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Posted - 2016.10.27 07:39:38 -
[28] - Quote
You could've just nerfed the scanres bonus of sharpshooter mode to 75 % or 66.6% instead of completely removing it, same goes for targeting range bonus since a targeting range of up to 137,5 km on a small hull is a bit silly. And giving resistance to damps and TDs isn't exactly a nerf, since it removes two weaknesses on those hulls.
Workarounds are not bugfixes.
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Morrigan LeSante
Black Omega Security Circle-Of-Two
1554
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Posted - 2016.10.27 07:40:36 -
[29] - Quote
Darrien wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:You're giving the jackdaw another low, but no CPU to go with it? No they're moving a mid slot to a low slot.
Right and at the same time nerfing the already hilariously low DPS out of sharpshooter, ostensibly this damage can be clawed back via an extra BCU, which it can't fit. Meanwhile the mid loss hurts either it's tank or control.
But perhaps I missed the clouds of jackdaws blotting out the sun previously, maybe it did need a healthy nerf too. Could have sworn said clouds were svipuls though. |
FT Cold
R3d Fire Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
92
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Posted - 2016.10.27 10:08:06 -
[30] - Quote
Hell yeah, a slam dunk on command bursts, mining command ships, and now on t3ds. Great job guys, I can't wait to see what's in store for t3cs.
Edit: Engineering complexes are pretty cool too, I guess. |
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