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aldhura
Perkone Caldari State
103
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Posted - 2016.10.30 02:01:40 -
[1] - Quote
The only purpose this servers is for me to go play other games. Please remove it as it makes grinding even more painful than it needs to be.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
10799
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Posted - 2016.10.30 02:22:59 -
[2] - Quote
Oooooooor.... you can go something else besides grinding missions?
How about poking about in those cosmic sigs? Wormhole diving? Try your hand at scanning. Team up with other mission runners to complete missions faster, gain LP faster, and do something while waiting for your 4 hour timer to go down (and vice versa). Go to another mission hub. Maybe take a cheapo frigate out and get wasted in low-sec (maybe even take someone down with you?). Duel with your corpmates. Talk with some other players and gain insight / knowledge into an aspect of the game you are not familiar with.
You don't HAVE to sit in station and wait out the timer.
How did you Veterans start?
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3687
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Posted - 2016.10.30 03:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Spam decline, get Dread Scarlet every 5 minutes, laugh and never run another mission ever again..... Much as I'd like it myself, it's not a good idea.
Really the entire mission framework needs to be brutally ripped out and replaced with 'high sec anoms' which reward LP (based on the corps in the constellation, obviously NPC's still have bounties) for completing objectives inside the grid, of which there might be 5-10 objectives on a single grid. Completing 1 objective starts a random timer and each extra objective completed removes a set amount from the timer as well as normal tick down per minute. Site timer reaches zero, site despawns in some manner appropriate to the site (Ouchie self destruct, sudden massive undock & warp off just before self destruct to both give 10 seconds warning and look appropriate for an example of an appropriate despawn) This then creates some competition for objectives as well as allowing some co-operation as well without hurting your income. Then if you don't like the 'site' you take a gate and find a new one next door.
Getting rid of mission agents also would allow CCP to dramatically decrease the number of stations in High sec, which would give more importance to Citadels & High Sec Corps as a result.
So yeah, getting rid of missions all together is amazing, making them easier to spam, not amazing, |
aldhura
Perkone Caldari State
103
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Posted - 2016.10.30 04:26:29 -
[4] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Oooooooor.... you can go something else besides grinding missions?
How about poking about in those cosmic sigs? Try your hand at scanning. Wormhole diving? Team up with other mission runners to complete missions faster, gain LP faster, and do something while waiting for your 4 hour timer to go down (and vice versa). Go to another mission hub. Maybe take a cheapo frigate out and get wasted in low-sec (maybe even take someone down with you?). Duel with your corpmates. Talk with some other players and gain insight / knowledge into an aspect of the game you are not familiar with. Mining? (ha, haha, HAHAHAHA)
You don't HAVE to sit in station and wait out the timer.
Yea, I started the game yesterday and haven't done any of that Only thing I haven't done in this game is gank and lvl5 missions. If I chose to run missions, that is my choice. All I am asking is some silly mechanic be removed as it add no value. I don't run missions for isk, I do it to help others, but I can't help till I can at least open lvl4's. And yes I could do it somewhere else, but the corp is based in a place I have not been, cause you know, I haven't spent all my time in eve in hs. CCP is making almost all aspects of the game easier, so I don't think its a big ask.
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Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space No Points Necessary
364
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Posted - 2016.10.30 05:43:04 -
[5] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Oooooooor.... you can go something else besides grinding missions?
What other repeatable ways are there for me to get my amarr standing up ?
Because at the moment I'm grinding level 1s to get my amarr status to -1.9 because I want to do the Amarr epic arc. I've done all the non-repeatable standing boosts, they weren't enough. I'm doing combat missions because I know I couldn't stand grinding mining, trade or courier missions.
I don't want to tank my Minmatar standing, so I want to decline any mission against Minmatar. Which runs into the 4 hour gap. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5969
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Posted - 2016.10.30 06:24:47 -
[6] - Quote
You can go take missions from another agent.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Rivr Luzade
Viziam Amarr Empire
2777
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Posted - 2016.10.30 06:53:23 -
[7] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:Oooooooor.... you can go something else besides grinding missions? What other repeatable ways are there for me to get my amarr standing up ? Because at the moment I'm grinding level 1s to get my amarr status to -1.9 because I want to do the Amarr epic arc. I've done all the non-repeatable standing boosts, they weren't enough. I'm doing combat missions because I know I couldn't stand grinding mining, trade or courier missions. I don't want to tank my Minmatar standing, so I want to decline any mission against Minmatar. Which runs into the 4 hour gap. SOE Epic Arc? Gives you +1 standing at the end to a faction of your choice without impact on the other faction. Repeatable every 3 months. Data Centers? Don't care and get an alt that either only accepts missons for you or with which you run missions together. Run L1 missions in a station that has a storyline agent in the same station or at least same system? I can't tell if this is possible with Amarr (because I have always been a good guy with Amarr and it was never necessary) but it works fantastically with Gallente. Run L1 Distros for Poteque in Kor-Azor, gain Gallente and Minmatar standing as fast as a rocket climbs the skies.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1935
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Posted - 2016.10.30 07:31:14 -
[8] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Getting rid of mission agents also would allow CCP to dramatically decrease the number of stations in High sec, which would give more importance to Citadels & High Sec Corps as a result.
Don't be silly
Akrasjel Lanate
Founder and CEO of Naquatech Conglomerate
Executor of Naquatech Syndicate
Citizen of Solitude
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Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space No Points Necessary
364
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Posted - 2016.10.30 07:54:18 -
[9] - Quote
It occours to me that every other game I've seen with similar standing mechanics has you gaining standings when you kill a ship/NPC belonging to an enemy of that faction. If Eve did the same, but with the standing gain for killing an enemy ship being much smaller than the standing loss from killing a ship of that faction, players who run missions for ages wouldn't find a large standings grind sitting between them and the content they want to do when they get sick of missions. Though it would remove the scenario of a player running missions for one faction, while located in an enemy factions space, suddenly finding out that they have reached shoot on sight with the local NPCs, which is a change I'm not sure about.
I'd probably set the exact values so that a character with 5 in Diplomacy and Social who runs every mission offered to them will hover around the -1.9, letting their corp/agent standings determine who they can run missions for.
Rivr Luzade wrote:SOE Epic Arc? Gives you +1 standing at the end to a faction of your choice without impact on the other faction. Repeatable every 3 months. Technically repeatable. But that would mean me waiting for 6 months, without doing anything to drop my amarr standing, before I can do the amarr epic arc. So not really a viable option.
The Data Center missions are mostly missions where you hand in pirate tags (you can loot these in missions and buy them on the market). Basically, it allows you to convert isk into standing. Remember, you can talk to each agent only once! The Data Centers can be found in: Not repeatable.
Quote:Don't care and get an alt that either only accepts missons for you or with which you run missions together.
An alt means paying for two accounts, as I'd need the alt and my main to be in the same fleet to share the standing boost and mission locations.
Quote:Run L1 missions in a station that has a storyline agent in the same station or at least same system? That's what I'm currently doing. It works, up until I get given multiple missions against minmatar in quick succession. Yesterday it was 4 of them within a single hour.
So I'm left with having to accept the standing loss from killing Minmatar NPCs, on top of the Gal/Minmatar standing loss for doing Amarr storyline missions. |
aldhura
Perkone Caldari State
103
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Posted - 2016.10.30 08:44:16 -
[10] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:You can go take missions from another agent.
A whole lot of jumps away. So this would be your approach to eve then: You can salvage in s destroyer, shouldn't have implemented noctis You can use gates to get through null, shouldn't have brought out cyno's you can sell one item at a time, why make sell all you can repair standings by ratting, why bring out tags You can mine in a BS, why bring out mining barges can go on for ever if you want....
Don't see why the big aversion to making it easier for commissioning. |
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Rivr Luzade
Viziam Amarr Empire
2777
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Posted - 2016.10.30 09:42:49 -
[11] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:SOE Epic Arc? Gives you +1 standing at the end to a faction of your choice without impact on the other faction. Repeatable every 3 months. Technically repeatable. But that would mean me waiting for 6 months, without doing anything to drop my amarr standing, before I can do the amarr epic arc. So not really a viable option. Don't mistake the Empire Arcs with the SOE. The Sisters of EVE Epic Arc is a different thing.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
218
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Posted - 2016.10.30 11:10:22 -
[12] - Quote
No. There's a game in place. You're asking for the game design to disppear because you don't like it.
Stop it.
Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1039
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Posted - 2016.10.30 13:55:31 -
[13] - Quote
-1
The delay is there for a multitude of reasons but the most important one is consequences to the choices you make.
Not buying into the the agent is to far away line, that's what jump clones are for. Oh and don't give me some sad story about not having enough ISK to have multiple level 4 mission ships, based on the age of your character I am not buying into that either.
Other options are to blitz level 3's or even run some distribution missions or what they hell go run for a different NPC in the same faction that would still help your faction standings. |
Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
487
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Posted - 2016.10.30 14:13:55 -
[14] - Quote
Be thankful you have the option of declining missions. If I'd designed it decline would equal fail. If you don't want to risk standing by accepting missions against other empire factions or risk visiting lowsec - then accept the penalty for declining the mission or run anomalies for bounties and loot. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2758
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Posted - 2016.10.30 19:35:03 -
[15] - Quote
aldhura wrote:If I chose to run missions, that is my choice. All I am asking is some silly mechanic be removed as it add no value. I don't run missions for isk, I do it to help others, but I can't help till I can at least open lvl4's. And yes I could do it somewhere else, but the corp is based in a place I have not been, cause you know, I haven't spent all my time in eve in hs. CCP is making almost all aspects of the game easier, so I don't think its a big ask.
So just because you don't blitz missions for money you think it's ok, despite the fact that others clearly do and would abuse the **** out of a system with no decline penalties in order to only accept the one or two missions that are most profitable. It's a huge ask. It would utterly shatter mission income balance.
Why are you ignoring the effects on people who don't play exactly like you do? That's just an awful way to think about game design. |
voetius
Quiet Days in Clichy
438
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Posted - 2016.10.30 20:41:13 -
[16] - Quote
aldhura wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:You can go take missions from another agent.
A whole lot of jumps away. So this would be your approach to eve then: You can salvage in s destroyer, shouldn't have implemented noctis You can use gates to get through null, shouldn't have brought out cyno's you can sell one item at a time, why make sell all you can repair standings by ratting, why bring out tags You can mine in a BS, why bring out mining barges can go on for ever if you want.... Don't see why the big aversion to making it easier for commissioning.
Mara is right, sort of. The easiest way to do what you ask for is to use a station with two agents and have high-ish faction standing, i.e. around 6 but higher is better.
Then just bounce between the agents when you need to decline inside the 4 hour window and don't worry about the penalty if you need to decline multiple times.
The faction penalty for multiple declines is very small, even the penalty to corporation can be made up as long as you do 3 - 4 missions for each one you decline that penalises your corporation standing.
As a test, I once went to an agent that was one jump from low and in the space of an hour I declined 8 missions and did 2 or 3 and it hardly touched my standings.
But that is an extreme example, there are plenty of stations in quiet systems with multiple level 4 agents, not necessarily 0.5 systems, but even then you have places like Sasoutikh, 0.5, 2 Theology Council agents and they don't have lots of anti-faction missions. Just have a look around. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3574
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Posted - 2016.10.30 20:54:46 -
[17] - Quote
its there for a reason, but its true it leads to people playing other games. im often the same because i dont always have other jobs to do or cant be bothered with a particular tedious task on that particular day.
When missions get overhauled i hope there is a way to pick from a pool in the surrounding area and that you dont have to dock to accept missions. This would be compromise that should mitigate the OP's gripe.
Beyond that, you can decline missions more than once every 4 hours, you just take a standings hit. Not a big deal most of the time.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18869
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Posted - 2016.10.30 21:17:39 -
[18] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:You can go take missions from another agent.
Bingo, stop being lazy and use another agent.
That said i do think there should be more repeatable ways to gain empire standing. Mission grinding is painful.
Praposal:Un-F**k Locator Agents
Praposal:Un-F**k War Mechanics
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3687
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Posted - 2016.10.30 21:25:08 -
[19] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:SOE Epic Arc? Gives you +1 standing at the end to a faction of your choice without impact on the other faction. Repeatable every 3 months. Technically repeatable. But that would mean me waiting for 6 months, without doing anything to drop my amarr standing, before I can do the amarr epic arc. So not really a viable option. Here's a sneaky trick. Hang out in Manuq I believe it is for Amarr, fleet with all the newbies who want a hand, or just company. If you do the last mission with them also you get a share in the standings. You can get to +5 in a day if you get a good run of fleets. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5975
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Posted - 2016.10.31 00:47:37 -
[20] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:You can go take missions from another agent.
Bingo, stop being lazy and use another agent. That said i do think there should be more repeatable ways to gain empire standing. Mission grinding is painful.
Being subservient to NPCs should be painful.
Running missions should actually give the player electric shocks, or deprive them of the ability to feel pleasure for a day.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5975
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Posted - 2016.10.31 00:56:24 -
[21] - Quote
aldhura wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:You can go take missions from another agent.
A whole lot of jumps away. So this would be your approach to eve then: You can salvage in s destroyer, shouldn't have implemented noctis You can use gates to get through null, shouldn't have brought out cyno's you can sell one item at a time, why make sell all you can repair standings by ratting, why bring out tags You can mine in a BS, why bring out mining barges can go on for ever if you want.... Don't see why the big aversion to making it easier for commissioning.
Here are some likely reasons the four hour decline was implemented:
- prevent cherry-picking
- encourage mission runners to take anti-faction missions
- encourage mission-runners to move away from min-maxing "ideal" agents
- encourage participation in other activities
As Ralph has suggested, it would be nice if there were other activities that were as ludicrously lucrative as running security missions for ISK and standings.
As an example, distribution missions are much less effort, but are a much slower way to build standings. Station trading or speculative hauling can be far more rewarding if you have the ISK to support the activity, but they do not contribute to standings.
Security missions are stupidly profitable all things considered. Accepting a little pain such as having to take a tiny standings hit or having to move to a different agent for a while, is a tiny price to pay.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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aldhura
Perkone Caldari State
103
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Posted - 2016.10.31 01:05:54 -
[22] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:You can go take missions from another agent.
Bingo, stop being lazy and use another agent. That said i do think there should be more repeatable ways to gain empire standing. Mission grinding is painful. Being subservient to NPCs should be painful. Running missions should actually give the player electric shocks, or deprive them of the ability to feel pleasure for a day.
You should probably stop giving advice to new players then. Mission running is part of the game, it helps minimize trade costs which helps short sighted people like you get stuff cheaper. |
aldhura
Perkone Caldari State
103
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Posted - 2016.10.31 01:07:09 -
[23] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:aldhura wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:You can go take missions from another agent.
A whole lot of jumps away. So this would be your approach to eve then: You can salvage in s destroyer, shouldn't have implemented noctis You can use gates to get through null, shouldn't have brought out cyno's you can sell one item at a time, why make sell all you can repair standings by ratting, why bring out tags You can mine in a BS, why bring out mining barges can go on for ever if you want.... Don't see why the big aversion to making it easier for commissioning. Here are some likely reasons the four hour decline was implemented:
- prevent cherry-picking
- encourage mission runners to take anti-faction missions
- encourage mission-runners to move away from min-maxing "ideal" agents
- encourage participation in other activities
As Ralph has suggested, it would be nice if there were other activities that were as ludicrously lucrative as running security missions for ISK and standings. As an example, distribution missions are much less effort, but are a much slower way to build standings. Station trading or speculative hauling can be far more rewarding if you have the ISK to support the activity, but they do not contribute to standings. Security missions are stupidly profitable all things considered. Accepting a little pain such as having to take a tiny standings hit or having to move to a different agent for a while, is a tiny price to pay.
This doesn't stop cherry picking, once you have done a few lvl4's, you can take the hits and cherry pick all you want |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5975
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Posted - 2016.10.31 01:19:27 -
[24] - Quote
aldhura wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:You can go take missions from another agent.
Bingo, stop being lazy and use another agent. That said i do think there should be more repeatable ways to gain empire standing. Mission grinding is painful. Being subservient to NPCs should be painful. Running missions should actually give the player electric shocks, or deprive them of the ability to feel pleasure for a day. You should probably stop giving advice to new players then. Mission running is part of the game, it helps minimize trade costs which helps short sighted people like you get stuff cheaper.
Professional Raven leveller here. I know what I am talking about. Mission running does not help minimise trade costs. What helps minimise trade costs is reducing broker fees and sales tax. You can do that by going to a citadel for trade rather than an NPC station. No grinding needed!
Why people actually grind standings is for the few things NPCs do that players do not. The fastest way to grind standings is distribution missions in a warp speed rigged blockade runner and storylines. No need for declining missions, no 4 hour timer. The fastest way to gain standings overall is DeMichael's Faction Standing Repair Plan (why did CCP can the wiki?).
If you are running security missions to grind standings, you are doing it wrong.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5975
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Posted - 2016.10.31 01:22:57 -
[25] - Quote
aldhura wrote:This doesn't stop cherry picking, once you have done a few lvl4's, you can take the hits and cherry pick all you want
You are remarkably observant to notice that something CCP designed did not work as expected.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Iain Cariaba
3227
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Posted - 2016.10.31 01:31:40 -
[26] - Quote
aldhura wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:aldhura wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:You can go take missions from another agent.
A whole lot of jumps away. So this would be your approach to eve then: You can salvage in s destroyer, shouldn't have implemented noctis You can use gates to get through null, shouldn't have brought out cyno's you can sell one item at a time, why make sell all you can repair standings by ratting, why bring out tags You can mine in a BS, why bring out mining barges can go on for ever if you want.... Don't see why the big aversion to making it easier for commissioning. Here are some likely reasons the four hour decline was implemented:
- prevent cherry-picking
- encourage mission runners to take anti-faction missions
- encourage mission-runners to move away from min-maxing "ideal" agents
- encourage participation in other activities
As Ralph has suggested, it would be nice if there were other activities that were as ludicrously lucrative as running security missions for ISK and standings. As an example, distribution missions are much less effort, but are a much slower way to build standings. Station trading or speculative hauling can be far more rewarding if you have the ISK to support the activity, but they do not contribute to standings. Security missions are stupidly profitable all things considered. Accepting a little pain such as having to take a tiny standings hit or having to move to a different agent for a while, is a tiny price to pay. This doesn't stop cherry picking, once you have done a few lvl4's, you can take the hits and cherry pick all you want Yay. Thanks for proposing the suggestion so that I never have to run any mission other than the burner I find easiest. 10mil ISK and 6k LP on an endless five minute loop is a great idea.
/sarcasm
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Wimzy Chent-Shi
Unkindness Incorporated Who Dares Wins.
93
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Posted - 2016.11.01 23:12:04 -
[27] - Quote
Nothing makes you wait though except yourself. There are game mechanics to essentialy bypass the standing loss. Now use google or change the game?
Come get some cancer @ my blog !
"This clash of opinions is like cutting onions.
We are creating something here, that's productive,
...and then there is also salt."
-Wimzy 2016
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