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Hilti Enaka
State War Academy Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 17:24:17 -
[271] - Quote
Steffles wrote:Hilti Enaka wrote:Personally i'm struggling to find the game engaging and I think when you take off all of the sugar it really comes down to two mechanics that over the years have become real engagement killers.
All over the game I see a similar story from small fleets wanting to go out and blap stuff and test skill to watching PERUNGA sitting in Tama with his sebo keres and a fleet of logi and ecm backing him up.
Despite the research coming out of how gaming styles are changing and how people want to work in groups of no more than 15 people, CCP still keep push content that evolves around massive hordes of people grinding.
Some of us who remember the game before the nano nerf, before warp disrupter and ecm and ewar and killboards and remember what it was like to roam around and shoot stuff and compete against home defences because someone was tress passing. These days the story is, dock up and wait it out, same for fleets who sit on gates in null and low. And don't get me started on the war mechanic.
I don't know what the fix is and i am done thinking about how to achieve the type of dynamic fast moving game Eve used to be but i would like to see CCP at least trying to incentivise engaging game play instead of the boring, predictable choke points of gates and pipe blanket war dec campers.
Not sure they actually have a plan. Perhaps they'll get someone in who will one day address: Suicide Ganking Cyno's Cloaky Camping N+1 Capital Proliferation Killboard Fallout Gates Alpha War Decs But I wouldn't hold my breath, these negative things have been around for years, generated thousands of posts describing the negative aspects and they have failed miserably to address any of them. They did finally address: Capital Projection Sov 2 out 11+ aint bad... actually yeah its pretty bad in 10 years tbh
It's just an opinion but i actually think the focus of capital projection was wrong. What ccp did was condemn anyone who wanted to move a capital and i think in a game where CCP have one thing to do and that is provide engagement, the focus was on the wrong thing. Instead of looking at the entire process of "moving of a capital" they took the easy route and decided to kill an entire way people engage with the game. My opinion says the focus should have been on the act of cyno-ing, there is an entire game play that could occur but it was left with the f1 monkey ibis meta.
Suicide ganking will never change, this is part of the nastiness of Eve and cloaky camping might change with the new line of structures.
n+1, hell just logi, is one of my engagement killers, along with the outdated ewar including ECM. You look at some of the reasons why they were introduced into the game and many of them do not "fit" in today's game.
Capitals will always be that "end game" to many. I personally think they are overrated and should have a completely different role in the game.
KB's = yes, some say they provide incentive. many say they provide aversion because corps, alliances and people are deemed worthy over green killboards. Again, another example of a "tool" that was developed many years ago that as the game changed served to create stagnation.
Gates - whilst in some eyes provide the necessary choke points, in many they do nothing but serve dull predictable bait game play.
Alpha = Not sure about this.
War decs = In it's current form it promotes blanket war deccing where said "professional mercs" entitles don't actually compete against each other. There is a fantastic game play to open here but in the grand scheme of CCP this will not be touched for another few years.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14882
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 17:26:42 -
[272] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:I am well aware that it would result in bad days for lots of people.
That is my point.
How would you bring non-consensual PVP to hi sec criminals?
The way we do now. learning the mechanics, getting them to emulate themselves on CONCORD (they REALLY don't expect miners to have implants that increase ehp), grouping up, using alts that can rep or counter-bump. Hauling in jump frighters and having a ready low sec cyno on a pos of citidel so if you get bumped it's press one button and escape.
OUTTHINKING them, neutralizing before they even log on because (as everyone outside of high sec knows) fights in EVE are won while docked and looking at the fitting screen.
Again, that's the problem, high sec people defautl to "there is nothing I can do so CCP needs to do that for me". Why do people choose to play games involving other people (EVE is an open world mmo) if they are going to run to mommy dev the second it gets tough?
Quote: I mean the only other thing I can think of is to force anyone in an NPC Corp to green safeties until they join a player Corp.
Highlighted exhibit 1.
Quote: Won't stop throw away corps though.
The key problem now is that the behavior can't really be countered by PVP.
Then counter it with PVE. Get a list of the missions in high sec with ore in them. Tank your ships to tank the rats in the mission. HOPE a ganker team decides to scan your mining op down and warp in to a room full of npcs that will switch and kill the gankers before they can do enough dps to kill one mining ship.
That's how you mine more safely in npc null. but it works in high sec too. High sec miners would know that if they spent less time complaining about CODE on forums and more time experimenting with ways to avoid and counter the people they don't like.
Quote: The optimal solution would not to nerf ganking or buff mining and hauler EHP, but make a system where the miners or mercs can become the police themselves.
How would you propose for that to happen?
they already nerfed ganking and buffed EHP on mining ships. they gave ships higgs rigs to counter bumping. They have implemented the 30 second warping rule to thwart bumpers (who are trying to bump you away from gate guns so they can gank you) etc.
End result? SAME result as all of CCPs NPE revamps and lowering of barriers to entry to get new people to play: ZILCH.
People still complain, gankers keep adapting, the weak minded who can't think for themselves keep dying and the keep running to this forum begging for help they could have delivered to themselves BEFORE they got ganked.
And those of us who got our gameplay enjoyment from playing in fine Indianna Jones fashion (ie avoid the bad guys, run the mazes, get the loot, laugh at the folks who failed to kill you all the way to the bank) are the real ones who get screwed but CCPs recent interventionist stance. WE didn't need help to avoid gankers, and the people who do need that help can't be helped in the 1st place, because they are dumb as rocks.
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Hilti Enaka
State War Academy Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 17:26:44 -
[273] - Quote
Cien Banchiere wrote:Steffles wrote:Hilti Enaka wrote:Personally i'm struggling to find the game engaging and I think when you take off all of the sugar it really comes down to two mechanics that over the years have become real engagement killers.
All over the game I see a similar story from small fleets wanting to go out and blap stuff and test skill to watching PERUNGA sitting in Tama with his sebo keres and a fleet of logi and ecm backing him up.
Despite the research coming out of how gaming styles are changing and how people want to work in groups of no more than 15 people, CCP still keep push content that evolves around massive hordes of people grinding.
Some of us who remember the game before the nano nerf, before warp disrupter and ecm and ewar and killboards and remember what it was like to roam around and shoot stuff and compete against home defences because someone was tress passing. These days the story is, dock up and wait it out, same for fleets who sit on gates in null and low. And don't get me started on the war mechanic.
I don't know what the fix is and i am done thinking about how to achieve the type of dynamic fast moving game Eve used to be but i would like to see CCP at least trying to incentivise engaging game play instead of the boring, predictable choke points of gates and pipe blanket war dec campers.
Not sure they actually have a plan. Perhaps they'll get someone in who will one day address: Suicide Ganking Cyno's Cloaky Camping N+1 Capital Proliferation Killboard Fallout Gates Alpha War Decs But I wouldn't hold my breath, these negative things have been around for years, generated thousands of posts describing the negative aspects and they have failed miserably to address any of them. They did finally address: Capital Projection Sov 2 out 11+ aint bad... actually yeah its pretty bad in 10 years tbh Maybe because most of those aren't a problem. Maybe the problem is... people? Maybe they should start addressing people who constantly nag all the time instead of figuring out how to work around these "problems"
You are so right, people losing interest in a game that is being dulled down out of existence through crappy planning and execution sure is the fault of winey people. |
Hilti Enaka
State War Academy Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 17:29:32 -
[274] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:I am well aware that it would result in bad days for lots of people.
That is my point.
How would you bring non-consensual PVP to hi sec criminals? The way we do now. learning the mechanics, getting them to emulate themselves on CONCORD (they REALLY don't expect miners to have implants that increase ehp), grouping up, using alts that can rep or counter-bump. Hauling in jump frighters and having a ready low sec cyno on a pos of citidel so if you get bumped it's press one button and escape. OUTTHINKING them, neutralizing before they even log on because (as everyone outside of high sec knows) fights in EVE are won while docked and looking at the fitting screen. Again, that's the problem, high sec people defautl to "there is nothing I can do so CCP needs to do that for me". Why do people choose to play games involving other people (EVE is an open world mmo) if they are going to run to mommy dev the second it gets tough?
Now now Jenna you were one of the people who "ran to mommy dev" when you didn't like incursions. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14882
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 17:38:41 -
[275] - Quote
This is what you said:
Cien Banchiere wrote:
Maybe because most of those aren't a problem. Maybe the problem is... people? Maybe they should start addressing people who constantly nag all the time instead of figuring out how to work around these "problems"
This is what they hear :
Some people (not just in games) can't grasp the basic idea that they could be doing something about the thing they complain about. That they could make themselves safe in this game by doing simple things, that they could teach newer people proper defensive tactics that would make CODE wither and die from lack of life giving killmails and tears. That they could use the game as it stands against their enemies in a LOT less time than the YEARS they have spent forum lobbying CCP for changes beneficial (they think, wrongly) to them.
I find it amazing that such a situation exists. Like now CODE doesn't exist for me, I've lost 1 shuttle to them (and another to goons) in high sec, both empty.
It was the same through all those years of "grr Goons", people would come here and ***** about them, and I would go to battleclinic and look at my killboard full of goon deaths (and i'm not even a good pvp player). Some people are just born victims I think.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14882
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 17:41:21 -
[276] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:I am well aware that it would result in bad days for lots of people.
That is my point.
How would you bring non-consensual PVP to hi sec criminals? The way we do now. learning the mechanics, getting them to emulate themselves on CONCORD (they REALLY don't expect miners to have implants that increase ehp), grouping up, using alts that can rep or counter-bump. Hauling in jump frighters and having a ready low sec cyno on a pos of citidel so if you get bumped it's press one button and escape. OUTTHINKING them, neutralizing before they even log on because (as everyone outside of high sec knows) fights in EVE are won while docked and looking at the fitting screen. Again, that's the problem, high sec people default to "there is nothing I can do so CCP needs to do that for me". Why do people choose to play games involving other people (EVE is an open world mmo) if they are going to run to mommy dev the second it gets tough? Now now Jenna you were one of the people who "ran to mommy dev" when you didn't like incursions.
Since when did i tell ccp to get rid of incursions?
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5464
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 17:57:46 -
[277] - Quote
Mark Marconi wrote:Australian Excellence wrote:Mark Marconi wrote:Any thing over 300 mill will cover the gank cost, so a 1.8 billion freighter to carry no more than 300 mill. As I said it makes them useless. Ok people who carry billions are idiots but at the moment ganking a freighter is so cheap its stupid. So what, you want us to waste 10+ talos to kill an antitanked freighter every time? Let's be real here, you want no risk hauling. Deflecting the burden on the supposed ease in ganking is a lazy argument miner, there is no limit to how dumb you could take it. You going to start assuming every gank fleet has 100 pilots flying T1 cats and complaining about how it's costing under 200mil to kill full tanked freighters next? You'll find there is only 3-4 groups that actually field enough pilots to kill proper tanked freighters with only cats. Go play WoW if you want an always safe game. Look Carebear, it is the lack of risk to the ganker that is the problem. There is no profit to be made in hunting them. Now I know you don't want the possibility of someone ganking you for profit but really if you want a safe hi-sec maybe you should go play WOW.
Then change it. Don't sit there crying when you can do things yourself to change the situation.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1224
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 18:17:25 -
[278] - Quote
My alts have made numerous trips to Jita and around New Eden. I have never had my ship ganked. Why... Because I fly smart I would guess. Here seen some simple tricks:
1) Avoid Niarja and Uedama. It's not that hard to find a place to mine or mission run where you can do what you wish and do not need to pass through those systems. Just go to Dotlan, use the maps, and you are fine.
2) Haul less and smarter. Niarja and Uedama are ganker's heavens. So if you do have to pass through those systems, haul less. This does not mean make all 20 jumps repeatedly only hauling 20 mil. Simply pick a system a few jumps before these systems. Dock up, drop your cargo, split it into smaller loads, take the small loads through the danger zones. A jump or two after, Dock up drop off your cargo and go back for more. Yes it may add some jumps to your task but you'll be rewarded with less chance of being ganked and not have such a long trip.
3) use a hauling service like Red Frog.
4) if you have to, go the long way. Both systems can be avoided and you can still stay in hi sec. Yes it is a longer trip, but you are safe.
5) before heading out, open up the in game map. Under statistics, select ships destroyed in the last hour. If you see a huge red mark on any system you pass through, accept that the gankers are active and wait. After all, eve is a game of patience.
Practice this and chances are, you'll haul millions of loads and isk long before you are ganked.
Edited to add:
If you are being bumped, don't ransom and don't accept a dual request for web help from a stranger. Chances are, it's a scam. If the bumper had a fleet at the ready, you would already be shot. Eventually, they will have to accept that you won't pay and move to An easier mark. At worst, they'll waste your time and theirs while others get through. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5464
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 18:23:07 -
[279] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:My alts have made numerous trips to Jita and around New Eden. I have never had my ship ganked. Why... Because I fly smart I would guess. Here seen some simple tricks:
1) Avoid Niarja and Uedama. It's not that hard to find a place to mine or mission run where you can do what you wish and do not need to pass through those systems. Just go to Dotlan, use the maps, and you are fine.
2) Haul less and smarter. Niarja and Uedama are ganker's heavens. So if you do have to pass through those systems, haul less. This does not mean make all 20 jumps repeatedly only hauling 20 mil. Simply pick a system a few jumps before these systems. Dock up, drop your cargo, split it into smaller loads, take the small loads through the danger zones. A jump or two after, Dock up drop off your cargo and go back for more. Yes it may add some jumps to your task but you'll be rewarded with less chance of being ganked and not have such a long trip.
3) use a hauling service like Red Frog.
4) if you have to, go the long way. Both systems can be avoided and you can still stay in hi sec. Yes it is a longer trip, but you are safe.
5) before heading out, open up the in game map. Under statistics, select ships destroyed in the last hour. If you see a huge red mark on any system you pass through, accept that the gankers are active and wait. After all, eve is a game of patience.
Practice this and chances are, you'll haul millions of loads and isk long before you are ganked.
Set known ganking groups to red for standings. Use local to see if they are in Niarja or Uedama as well. Ideally your scout should be doing this. If they are there safest option, dock up and go make a sandwich, run to the store, etc. Come back later and go through when they are gone. Or wait for a risk seeking freighter pilot to keep them busy and slip through.
Edit: Tank your ship. A tanked ship will take more DPS to kill it which means you are a harder target to kill. If you are being bumped and there isn't much you can do....log off. You may very well still die, but there is a chance that they won't have that noob ship at the ready to keep you in space after logging off.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
121
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 18:30:31 -
[280] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:Cien Banchiere wrote:Steffles wrote:Hilti Enaka wrote:Personally i'm struggling to find the game engaging and I think when you take off all of the sugar it really comes down to two mechanics that over the years have become real engagement killers.
All over the game I see a similar story from small fleets wanting to go out and blap stuff and test skill to watching PERUNGA sitting in Tama with his sebo keres and a fleet of logi and ecm backing him up.
Despite the research coming out of how gaming styles are changing and how people want to work in groups of no more than 15 people, CCP still keep push content that evolves around massive hordes of people grinding.
Some of us who remember the game before the nano nerf, before warp disrupter and ecm and ewar and killboards and remember what it was like to roam around and shoot stuff and compete against home defences because someone was tress passing. These days the story is, dock up and wait it out, same for fleets who sit on gates in null and low. And don't get me started on the war mechanic.
I don't know what the fix is and i am done thinking about how to achieve the type of dynamic fast moving game Eve used to be but i would like to see CCP at least trying to incentivise engaging game play instead of the boring, predictable choke points of gates and pipe blanket war dec campers.
Not sure they actually have a plan. Perhaps they'll get someone in who will one day address: Suicide Ganking Cyno's Cloaky Camping N+1 Capital Proliferation Killboard Fallout Gates Alpha War Decs But I wouldn't hold my breath, these negative things have been around for years, generated thousands of posts describing the negative aspects and they have failed miserably to address any of them. They did finally address: Capital Projection Sov 2 out 11+ aint bad... actually yeah its pretty bad in 10 years tbh Maybe because most of those aren't a problem. Maybe the problem is... people? Maybe they should start addressing people who constantly nag all the time instead of figuring out how to work around these "problems" You are so right, people losing interest in a game that is being dulled down out of existence through crappy planning and execution sure is the fault of winey people.
Do explain.
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pajedas
Special Activities Division
343
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 18:33:40 -
[281] - Quote
Did you guys know that you can quote someone without having to include the "whole wall of text" that they are quoting?
Looks like you're trying to get the thread closed to me.
=ƒÉç Here come the c0d3/ganker tears! =ƒÉç
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Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
139
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 18:40:06 -
[282] - Quote
Mark Marconi wrote: If they had to use cruisers fitted out for damage with a limited time frame on bumping they would have to be out in the open more...
Wait a minute! What?
Please explain to us how this makes any sense.
What's that? You can't? Because you don't understand basic mechanics?
Why am I not surprised? |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5464
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 18:42:19 -
[283] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:This is what you said: Cien Banchiere wrote:
Maybe because most of those aren't a problem. Maybe the problem is... people? Maybe they should start addressing people who constantly nag all the time instead of figuring out how to work around these "problems"
This is what they hear : Some people (not just in games) can't grasp the basic idea that they could be doing something about the thing they complain about. That they could make themselves safe in this game by doing simple things, that they could teach newer people proper defensive tactics that would make CODE wither and die from lack of life giving killmails and tears. That they could use the game as it stands against their enemies in a LOT less time than the YEARS they have spent forum lobbying CCP for changes beneficial (they think, wrongly) to them. I find it amazing that such a situation exists. Like now CODE doesn't exist for me, I've lost 1 shuttle to them (and another to goons) in high sec, both empty. It was the same through all those years of "grr Goons", people would come here and ***** about them, and I would go to battleclinic and look at my killboard full of goon deaths (and i'm not even a good pvp player). Some people are just born victims I think.
Well, some of these players are just...well horrible.
I was using my blockade runner and saw a macherial sitting on the in gate in Uedama as I jumped into Sivala. I also saw a freighter on the Uedama gate in Sivala, so I thought, "I'll convo him and warn him." So I started to convo and nothing, then I get a notification that he had blocked me.
Some players are so terrible you just can't help them...in their hubris they beg to be ganked.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
313
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 19:11:52 -
[284] - Quote
Mark Marconi wrote: Look Carebear, it is the lack of risk to the ganker that is the problem. There is no profit to be made in hunting them. Now I know you don't want the possibility of someone ganking you for profit but really if you want a safe hi-sec maybe you should go play WOW.
As usual, you are wrong. It's fairly profitable to hunt gankers. They drop T2 guns and weapon upgrades, plus many have bounties. It may be boring to hunt them, but that's another issue.
Gankers also risk their bumping machs, scouts, and loot scoopers. They don't just magically get the loot transported to station after a gank. They can and have lost freighters and DSTs trying to get the loot back to station.
Captain Tardbar wrote: I think the question should be "why do NPC stations allow -10 criminals to dock?"
Also at the same time I always wondered why Jita 4-4 lets people who at war with the Caldari state dock up too.
I mean it always seemed odd that they would pursue these targets but yet once they dock, they are on holy ground.
I made this analogy in another thread: In IRL, once a criminal is released from prison, they can go to the mall or Walmart just like any other citizen. Their money is just as good as yours.
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I've got one but it might make a lot of people mad...
Add a 10 to 30 second cool down before you can warp after undocking.
Apply it to everyone to be fair.
Yes, I'm sure people undocking in industrials or shuttles in trade hubs would love to get the pirates camping stations an extra 10-30 seconds to target, scan, and then blap them.Steffles wrote:What I think would make things more even is the following:
Utilizing the same code as jump fatigue:
Suicide gank - 15 minutes suspect - 6 hour timer Suicide gank in that 6 hour timer - 30 minute suspect - 12 hour timer Suicide gank in that 12 hour timer - 1 hour suspect - 24 hour timer and so on and so on...
Um, most gankers are already perma free to shoot. |
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
313
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 19:21:22 -
[285] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote: I've got one but it might make a lot of people mad...
Add a 10 to 30 second cool down before you can warp after undocking.
Apply it to everyone to be fair.
Yes, I'm sure people undocking in industrials or shuttles in trade hubs would love to give the pirates camping stations an extra 10-30 seconds to target, scan, and then blap them.
Steffles wrote:What I think would make things more even is the following:
Utilizing the same code as jump fatigue:
Suicide gank - 15 minutes suspect - 6 hour timer Suicide gank in that 6 hour timer - 30 minute suspect - 12 hour timer Suicide gank in that 12 hour timer - 1 hour suspect - 24 hour timer and so on and so on...
Um, most gankers are already perma free to shoot.
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Captain Tardbar
Sunken Ships
1167
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Posted - 2016.11.03 19:23:26 -
[286] - Quote
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:Mark Marconi wrote: Look Carebear, it is the lack of risk to the ganker that is the problem. There is no profit to be made in hunting them. Now I know you don't want the possibility of someone ganking you for profit but really if you want a safe hi-sec maybe you should go play WOW.
As usual, you are wrong. It's fairly profitable to hunt gankers. They drop T2 guns and weapon upgrades, plus many have bounties. It may be boring to hunt them, but that's another issue. Gankers also risk their bumping machs, scouts, and loot scoopers. They don't just magically get the loot transported to station after a gank. They can and have lost freighters and DSTs trying to get the loot back to station. Captain Tardbar wrote: I think the question should be "why do NPC stations allow -10 criminals to dock?"
Also at the same time I always wondered why Jita 4-4 lets people who at war with the Caldari state dock up too.
I mean it always seemed odd that they would pursue these targets but yet once they dock, they are on holy ground.
I made this analogy in another thread: In IRL, once a criminal is released from prison, they can go to the mall or Walmart just like any other citizen. Their money is just as good as yours. Captain Tardbar wrote:Hrm... What might make throw away corps less problematic if if you quit or disband the decced Corp that you remain a war target for 7 days unless the Corp agrees to a peace deal. LOL I don't think you know what you're asking for. CODE and merc alliances would LOVE LOVE that change.
Hrm... If I'm not mistaken the NPCs faction police hunt -10 players. So technically they are still wanted criminals.
So if they go to the mall, the mall security would be actively hunting them down.
Of course if they stab a shopper a SWAT team sniper comes out and shoots them.
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby".
If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down.
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Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
313
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 19:33:51 -
[287] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:[ Hrm... If I'm not mistaken the NPCs faction police hunt -10 players. So technically they are still wanted criminals.
So if they go to the mall, the mall security would be actively hunting them down.
Of course if they stab a shopper a SWAT team sniper comes out and shoots them.
Yes, they are hunted by FACPO, which is why they sit in station and only fly fast aligning ships most of the time. IIRC they have about 20 seconds until FACPO shows up and other 10 until they get shot up. Would you like to see FACPO removed so gankers stay in space more? |
Captain Tardbar
Sunken Ships
1167
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 19:46:57 -
[288] - Quote
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:[ Hrm... If I'm not mistaken the NPCs faction police hunt -10 players. So technically they are still wanted criminals.
So if they go to the mall, the mall security would be actively hunting them down.
Of course if they stab a shopper a SWAT team sniper comes out and shoots them. Yes, they are hunted by FACPO, which is why they sit in station and only fly fast aligning ships most of the time. IIRC they have about 20 seconds until FACPO shows up and other 10 until they get shot up. Would you like to see FACPO removed so gankers stay in space more?
We could compromise.
Remove faction police.
Add, 10 second warp cool down for all -10 players.
Call it security tax.
That reasonable?
Sure they'll hang in safe spots after that, but any Merc worth their salt can scan them down.
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby".
If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down.
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Captain Tardbar
Sunken Ships
1167
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Posted - 2016.11.03 19:55:43 -
[289] - Quote
Alternatively... And here me out.
Remove all faction police.
Then make it so -10 players can only dock as a pod in high sec.
They can equip a ship and undock, but if they try to redock it won't let them until they are a pod again.
So they will spend their time prepping for a gank outside stations.
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby".
If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down.
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Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
139
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Posted - 2016.11.03 20:04:17 -
[290] - Quote
He edited out what I corrected... |
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Captain Tardbar
Sunken Ships
1167
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Posted - 2016.11.03 20:35:06 -
[291] - Quote
Also I would amend my idea to only have 10 warp cool down on anything other than a pod, since I could foresee a -10 player dock in Jita only to be podded over and over again on undock.
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby".
If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down.
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flakeys
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
3278
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Posted - 2016.11.04 09:29:37 -
[292] - Quote
Jagd Wilde wrote:Nick Bete wrote:Nice attitude Jagd. This is why this game's community has such a horrible(and deserved) reputation.
Blah blah blah. Why do you carebears even play this game?
Then take it from someone who hasn't done any pve activities in like 5 years , your attitude does suck.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Mark Marconi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
70
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Posted - 2016.11.04 09:52:51 -
[293] - Quote
Galaxy Duck wrote:Mark Marconi wrote: If they had to use cruisers fitted out for damage with a limited time frame on bumping they would have to be out in the open more... Wait a minute! What? Please explain to us how this makes any sense. What's that? You can't? Because you don't understand basic mechanics? Why am I not surprised? What your going to argue now that being able to bump people for an unlimited amount of time is a good mechanic?
I know your a carebear but come on. Bumping needs a limited time and that will make you carebear gankers come out of hiding more. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18936
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Posted - 2016.11.04 09:57:46 -
[294] - Quote
Mark Marconi wrote:Galaxy Duck wrote:Mark Marconi wrote: If they had to use cruisers fitted out for damage with a limited time frame on bumping they would have to be out in the open more... Wait a minute! What? Please explain to us how this makes any sense. What's that? You can't? Because you don't understand basic mechanics? Why am I not surprised? What your going to argue now that being able to bump people for an unlimited amount of time is a good mechanic? I know your a carebear but come on. Bumping needs a limited time and that will make you carebear gankers come out of hiding more. No he's called you out on what you said about it having them out more. Which mechanically speaking doesn't actually make any sense , can you elaborate a little?
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Artemis Ellery Sazas
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
93
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Posted - 2016.11.04 11:36:22 -
[295] - Quote
Criminals are given warnings and chased by FACPO when they enter certain systems, but I have always wondered why docking rights for those criminals are not pulled by the 4 factions as well. Criminals or other gankers would not be able to easily reship or hide while their timers are running down.
With the introduction of citadels, criminals can now use an alt to install citadels and have docking rights to those, but then gankers or criminals would have something to lose because the alt corp could be war dec'd. Make the game a little more interesting and give the criminals something to protect or lose, while they also cause havoc in high sec. A sec status of -10 means nothing and does not have any real restrictions that can't easily be bypassed. Isn't this what is EVE is about, Risk vs Reward?
I do find it ironic that gankers complain High sec is too safe, all the while their mains are sitting in the safety of Null sec running endless combat anoms and mining fresh ore anoms every 1/2 hour after depletion. When I lived in Null, there were days that would go by without seeing a neutral come through the pocket, while making about 150 mil/hr running Rock Havens. Having lived in all sectors, except wh, Null sec by far is the safest space in EVE, while High sec is the most dangerous and Low sec is easily the most fun. |
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
515
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Posted - 2016.11.04 11:59:51 -
[296] - Quote
same shite, different day. |
Keno Skir
867
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Posted - 2016.11.04 12:17:52 -
[297] - Quote
Artemis Ellery Sazas wrote:Criminals are given warnings and chased by FACPO when they enter certain systems, but I have always wondered why docking rights for those criminals are not pulled by the 4 factions as well. Criminals or other gankers would not be able to easily reship or hide while their timers are running down.
With the introduction of citadels, criminals can now use an alt to install citadels and have docking rights to those, but then gankers or criminals would have something to lose because the alt corp could be war dec'd. Make the game a little more interesting and give the criminals something to protect or lose, while they also cause havoc in high sec. A sec status of -10 means nothing and does not have any real restrictions that can't easily be bypassed. Isn't this what is EVE is about, Risk vs Reward?
I do find it ironic that gankers complain High sec is too safe, all the while their mains are sitting in the safety of Null sec running endless combat anoms and mining fresh ore anoms every 1/2 hour after depletion. When I lived in Null, there were days that would go by without seeing a neutral come through the pocket, while making about 150 mil/hr running Rock Havens. Having lived in all sectors, except wh, Null sec by far is the safest space in EVE, while High sec is the most dangerous and Low sec is easily the most fun.
Have you considered that :
1. PEOPLE made nulsec safe over time by adjusting their strategy, and using organization to counter threats. 2. This is EXACTLY what the pro-pvp guys are saying should happen in HiSec, rather than complaining the game should change to make you safer.
You made this point quite clearly with your description of how safe nul is. Why is it you think people can organize to limit risk in the most dangerous part of the game (mechanic wise) but shouldn't have to do the same when faced with a threat in Hi-Sec where they have the added bonus of security assistance from Concord etc?
Genuine question because i feel this point gets ignored time and time again.
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Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
140
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Posted - 2016.11.04 12:20:44 -
[298] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Mark Marconi wrote:Galaxy Duck wrote:Mark Marconi wrote: If they had to use cruisers fitted out for damage with a limited time frame on bumping they would have to be out in the open more... Wait a minute! What? Please explain to us how this makes any sense. What's that? You can't? Because you don't understand basic mechanics? Why am I not surprised? What your going to argue now that being able to bump people for an unlimited amount of time is a good mechanic? I know your a carebear but come on. Bumping needs a limited time and that will make you carebear gankers come out of hiding more. No he's called you out on what you said about it having them out more. Which mechanically speaking doesn't actually make any sense , can you elaborate a little?
Oh please do elaborate, Mark. Prove to us all that you're not as clueless as we think you are. :D
I'm waiting.... |
Keno Skir
869
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Posted - 2016.11.04 13:18:04 -
[299] - Quote
Galaxy Duck wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Mark Marconi wrote:Galaxy Duck wrote:Mark Marconi wrote: If they had to use cruisers fitted out for damage with a limited time frame on bumping they would have to be out in the open more... Wait a minute! What? Please explain to us how this makes any sense. What's that? You can't? Because you don't understand basic mechanics? Why am I not surprised? What your going to argue now that being able to bump people for an unlimited amount of time is a good mechanic? I know your a carebear but come on. Bumping needs a limited time and that will make you carebear gankers come out of hiding more. No he's called you out on what you said about it having them out more. Which mechanically speaking doesn't actually make any sense , can you elaborate a little? Oh please do elaborate, Mark. Prove to us all that you're not as clueless as we think you are. :D I'm waiting....
Yes Mark please continue to troll yourself. It's like you think nobody notices you shift the goalposts every time someone rails you like a cheap floozy..
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Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3613
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Posted - 2016.11.04 13:18:17 -
[300] - Quote
Artemis Ellery Sazas wrote:Criminals are given warnings and chased by FACPO when they enter certain systems, but I have always wondered why docking rights for those criminals are not pulled by the 4 factions as well. Criminals or other gankers would not be able to easily reship or hide while their timers are running down.
With the introduction of citadels, criminals can now use an alt to install citadels and have docking rights to those, but then gankers or criminals would have something to lose because the alt corp could be war dec'd. Make the game a little more interesting and give the criminals something to protect or lose, while they also cause havoc in high sec. A sec status of -10 means nothing and does not have any real restrictions that can't easily be bypassed. Isn't this what is EVE is about, Risk vs Reward?
I do find it ironic that gankers complain High sec is too safe, all the while their mains are sitting in the safety of Null sec running endless combat anoms and mining fresh ore anoms every 1/2 hour after depletion. When I lived in Null, there were days that would go by without seeing a neutral come through the pocket, while making about 150 mil/hr running Rock Havens. Having lived in all sectors, except wh, Null sec by far is the safest space in EVE, while High sec is the most dangerous and Low sec is easily the most fun.
why dont you just go and camp the undock of where the gankers live or hunt the nullsec alts? or how about pay someone to do it, because you know if pirates want something done that doesnt involve shooting they have to pay carebears to do it or learn it themselves, maybe all you highsec carebears can form some sort of coalition and pay people to deal with it, that involves interaction though which you may not like.
null is safe because people make it safe and adapt, unlike people like you who just complain to ccp because people are using mechanics available which you dont like, god forbid if they ever let cyno's into highsec.
-10.0 holds plenty of restrictions, i.e we have to pay for alts to buy ships for us as we cant enter into highsec, which adds risk of getting ganked, but we are smart and dont make ourselves look like idiots that get ganked being bad.
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