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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Edward Dickcheese
Canonical Equations
0
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Posted - 2016.11.06 23:40:40 -
[1] - Quote
Im pretty new to EVE, and my brother asked me to PvP fit a thorax. I slapped some blasters and armor plates on that bad boy, and when I hover over my guns, it says "Weapon accuracy score: 74".
I have no idea what that means. Is this good? Is this bad? Will I be able to hit the broadside of a barn, or will I be better off ramming it? |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
13113
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Posted - 2016.11.06 23:41:49 -
[2] - Quote
It represents a swift reversion to 'Gallente Citizen 98230473082714'.
e. I would probably also like to know the answer to this
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
1075
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Posted - 2016.11.07 04:45:02 -
[3] - Quote
Good question. Give me a couple years to get the muscle memory down and I'll let you know if 74 is a good number...maybe.
I would say it's f'ing fantastic; my Pally's tachs get more crit hits than normal hits and more normal hits than misses with only 3.4, so assuming that 74 must be God mode accurate, right? Then again, math was never my strongest subject, so there is that.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1009
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Posted - 2016.11.07 04:49:10 -
[4] - Quote
It's tracking and signature mixed into one, according to google. I'm not entirely sure what exactly that number is supposed to tell me, except high is good and low is bad, I suppose. I'd say it's an attempt to simplify it, but I think it's actually more complicated. Tracking speed directly correlates with the targets angular velocity, so I can tell whether I can score a good hit or not.
Looking good with those glasses by the way, Bumble. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
13118
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Posted - 2016.11.07 12:53:28 -
[5] - Quote
Why thank you, kind sir - I shall be sure to pass on your kind words to my space optician!
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
19140
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Posted - 2016.11.07 13:44:25 -
[6] - Quote
Number of hamsters turning the cranks.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Nalia White
Tencus
209
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Posted - 2016.11.07 16:51:48 -
[7] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s88r_q7oufE&list=RDFSWbIBHWAvk&index=7 |
Vigirr
22
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Posted - 2016.11.07 20:39:34 -
[8] - Quote
It's one of those changes where you have to ask if the devs who worked on this actually play EVE at all. |
Alana Packham
Wardec Solutions
16
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Posted - 2016.11.07 20:55:15 -
[9] - Quote
Edward Dickcheese wrote:Im pretty new to EVE, and my brother asked me to PvP fit a thorax. I slapped some blasters and armor plates on that bad boy, and when I hover over my guns, it says "Weapon accuracy score: 74".
I have no idea what that means. Is this good? Is this bad? Will I be able to hit the broadside of a barn, or will I be better off ramming it?
Put a ping pong ball in the toilet and aim for it.
That pretty much describes this games aiming mechanics.
Its not that the Dev's have never been hi-sec miners, more that if they ever admitted it they'd be designing new pattern's in the dust as they sweep the car park. Would you employ someone who spends all day mining in hi?
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Zappity
Horde Vanguard. Pandemic Horde
3048
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Posted - 2016.11.07 21:17:20 -
[10] - Quote
I have absolutely no idea.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
4546
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Posted - 2016.11.07 21:25:53 -
[11] - Quote
It represents CCP confusing the meanings of "simplification" and "obfuscation". |
Conrad Makbure
Trident Expedition
110
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Posted - 2016.11.08 01:10:17 -
[12] - Quote
Man, I'd like to know what's up with this mystery number too. All I can tell is, the higher, the better. What are the thresholds? Accuracy score of 7 appears to be good enough for battleship vs battleship, but not for frigs, i.e., lots of misses on frigs.
We need an official CCP chart or graph or something. More info. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2005
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Posted - 2016.11.08 01:48:47 -
[13] - Quote
Looking at the chance to hit formula on Eve-Uni's wiki I'd guess that the weapon accuracy score = tracking for the weapons at a normalized 40km sig resolution. |
xStiL
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
0
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Posted - 2016.11.08 14:22:49 -
[14] - Quote
Weapon accuracy score is your tracking in (rad/second) * 1000 normalized to a 40m sig.
So if your weapon score is 75 you can track a 40m frig at .075 radians per second.
If you are shooting at something larger, say a cruiser with a 150m sig, then you can track them at .075 * (125 / 40) radians per second. |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
643
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Posted - 2016.11.08 15:42:35 -
[15] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Looking at the chance to hit formula on Eve-Uni's wiki I'd guess that the weapon accuracy score = tracking for the weapons at a normalized 40km sig resolution. It doesn't really remove any steps from figuring out relative steps to compare tracking with sig res to a targets angular velocity and sig so much as it introduces the 40km sig res constant.
Ty is correct.
If you want to know the to-hit probability against a particular ship, you need to know the ships sig radius and angular velocity, then normalize for a 40km sig radius (which I like to call the Ship Evasion Score.) When the WAS and SES are equal, your chance to hit is 50/50.
Unfortunately, the server doesn't tell your client the actual sig radius for anything other than your own ship, so you have to guess based on the ship's base sig, any TPs used against it, whether it has MWD on or not, whether it has any shield extenders, whether it has any command burst effects, and maybe some other factors I can't think of. Playing with the numbers on a spreadsheet or on a napkin, however, can give you a general idea of what various ships can get for their SES. Fast orbiting frigs get numbers in the 300s and 400s, cruisers are closer to 50s and 70s, battleships in single digits and teens, and capitals tend to be, hmm, something like 0.1 to 2 or -ish. Of course when two ships are stationary relative to each other, both their Ship Evasion Scores are zero.
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Jaxon Grylls
Institute of Archaeology
137
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Posted - 2016.11.09 09:01:30 -
[16] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:Playing with the numbers on a spreadsheet or on a napkin, however, can give you a general idea of what various ships can get for their SES. Blimey, this looks more and more like work to me. I think that I will just close my eyes and hope for the best.
Question: Does this game appeal to accountants?
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Steffles
University of Caille Gallente Federation
37
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Posted - 2016.11.09 14:59:52 -
[17] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:[quote=Tyberius Franklin]Of course when two ships are stationary relative to each other, both their Ship Evasion Scores are zero.
Are you sure about this. I thought that the sig of a weapons round affected the tracking irrespective of whether you are moving or not. If you fire a large round at a large stopped target you'll hit every time but firing a large round at a tiny stopped target you'll still often miss or graze.
Hey CPP - Time we put highsec back to how it was originally designed - http://i.imgur.com/GT0T0oS.jpg
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
643
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Posted - 2016.11.09 15:09:07 -
[18] - Quote
Steffles wrote:Eli Stan wrote:[quote=Tyberius Franklin]Of course when two ships are stationary relative to each other, both their Ship Evasion Scores are zero.
Are you sure about this. I thought that the sig of a weapons round affected the tracking irrespective of whether you are moving or not. If you fire a large round at a large stopped target you'll hit every time but firing a large round at a tiny stopped target you'll still often miss or graze.
Yes, I'm as sure as I can be on the assumption that the tracking formula is correct. The angular velocity is a multiplicative factor, so if that is zero the entire term is zero no matter what the other numbers (sig radius and WAS) are.
Of course, absolutely zero angular velocity just doesn't happen in EVE for the most part.
You can see the formula here http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turret_Damage . |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
643
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Posted - 2016.11.09 15:13:58 -
[19] - Quote
Jaxon Grylls wrote:Eli Stan wrote:Playing with the numbers on a spreadsheet or on a napkin, however, can give you a general idea of what various ships can get for their SES. Blimey, this looks more and more like work to me. I think that I will just close my eyes and hope for the best. Question: Does this game appeal to accountants?
Well, there's at least one advantages to the WAS that makes for less work - you can tell that, for example, a 0.1 rad/sec large gun is significantly less accurate than a 0.1 rad/sec medium gun.
Useful in the fitting window I guess, but not in the overview, where we're lacking a Ship Evasion Score stat and instead get the useless "Size" stat.
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Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
158
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Posted - 2016.11.09 18:53:19 -
[20] - Quote
Edward Dickcheese wrote:Im pretty new to EVE, and my brother asked me to PvP fit a thorax. I slapped some blasters and armor plates on that bad boy, and when I hover over my guns, it says "Weapon accuracy score: 74".
I have no idea what that means. Is this good? Is this bad? Will I be able to hit the broadside of a barn, or will I be better off ramming it?
It's still rad/s values, but now it's related to unified 40km scan resolution, so comparing appropriate sized weapons to appropriately sized ships (or to be precise, angular velocity column in the overview) is bigger PITA now.
A few more details in:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=478607 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=495326
Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl
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Meih Notyou
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.11.10 17:48:13 -
[21] - Quote
From what I understand, it scales for each weapon size.
So, an 800mm cannon to have a 20 would be really really good.
A 425 to have a 20 would be awful, and a 200 to have a 20 would be... well, you wouldn't hit the broad side of a barn.
That's just from my understanding, though. I go off kind of a rule of thumb. For long-range guns like tachyon and arties, anywhere from 4-8 is normal. For short range guns(800mm autos) would be around 10-15.
For cruiser sized guns(short range, I don't use longrange) it would be somewhere around 50-80.
IDK about frigates, I don't fly the frigate menace. |
Cara Forelli
Better Off Red Unspoken Alliance.
2113
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Posted - 2016.11.10 18:57:38 -
[22] - Quote
A "simplification" that backfired in spectacular fashion.
Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2005
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Posted - 2016.11.10 19:16:03 -
[23] - Quote
Meih Notyou wrote:From what I understand, it scales for each weapon size.
So, an 800mm cannon to have a 20 would be really really good.
A 425 to have a 20 would be awful, and a 200 to have a 20 would be... well, you wouldn't hit the broad side of a barn.
That's just from my understanding, though. I go off kind of a rule of thumb. For long-range guns like tachyon and arties, anywhere from 4-8 is normal. For short range guns(800mm autos) would be around 10-15.
For cruiser sized guns(short range, I don't use longrange) it would be somewhere around 50-80.
IDK about frigates, I don't fly the frigate menace. Not really.
Under the old stats that would be true but since the sig res was unified it's now an apples to apples comparison of WAS.
That's why you're seeing such different ranges of numbers for different sized guns. Prior there would have been some overlap in the tracking numbers with different sig res changing the actual tracking performance. |
Rasputin Demonde
Pagan Products
11
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Posted - 2016.11.10 23:03:56 -
[24] - Quote
Alana Packham wrote:Edward Dickcheese wrote:Im pretty new to EVE, and my brother asked me to PvP fit a thorax. I slapped some blasters and armor plates on that bad boy, and when I hover over my guns, it says "Weapon accuracy score: 74".
I have no idea what that means. Is this good? Is this bad? Will I be able to hit the broadside of a barn, or will I be better off ramming it? Put a ping pong ball in the toilet and aim for it. That pretty much describes this games aiming mechanics.
Is that before , or after a 6 pack of beer ? |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
1083
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Posted - 2016.11.10 23:23:29 -
[25] - Quote
Rasputin Demonde wrote:Alana Packham wrote:Edward Dickcheese wrote:Im pretty new to EVE, and my brother asked me to PvP fit a thorax. I slapped some blasters and armor plates on that bad boy, and when I hover over my guns, it says "Weapon accuracy score: 74".
I have no idea what that means. Is this good? Is this bad? Will I be able to hit the broadside of a barn, or will I be better off ramming it? Put a ping pong ball in the toilet and aim for it. That pretty much describes this games aiming mechanics. Is that before , or after a 6 pack of beer ?
After. Everyone knows having a buzz would give +10% tracking speed of all turret weapons. I don't quite know what it does to accuracy score now that that's a thing, but it it's bound to help too, right?
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Starrakatt
Celtic Anarchy Complaints Department
609
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Posted - 2016.11.11 00:16:26 -
[26] - Quote
With the old stats I had my overview to show angular velocity and knowing my turret's tracking I could figure if I could hit or not.
Now, I just slap webs/painters on targets, cross fingers and pray for the best.
Hopefully CCP will eventually come up with something where you don't need a math degree to understand.
Not holding my breath.
Sneaky bastard.
Complaints Department is recruiting!
We got wardecced, ohnoes!
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Steffles
University of Caille Gallente Federation
44
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Posted - 2016.11.11 05:38:47 -
[27] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:Steffles wrote:Eli Stan wrote:[quote=Tyberius Franklin]Of course when two ships are stationary relative to each other, both their Ship Evasion Scores are zero.
Are you sure about this. I thought that the sig of a weapons round affected the tracking irrespective of whether you are moving or not. If you fire a large round at a large stopped target you'll hit every time but firing a large round at a tiny stopped target you'll still often miss or graze. Yes, I'm as sure as I can be on the assumption that the tracking formula is correct. The angular velocity is a multiplicative factor, so if that is zero the entire term is zero no matter what the other numbers (sig radius and WAS) are. Of course, absolutely zero angular velocity just doesn't happen in EVE for the most part. You can see the formula here http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turret_Damage . Fair enough I remember seeing a post years ago where the formula for the sig size of the gun for some reason was affecting tracking rather than how the damage formula for explosion radius on missiles reduces damage based on radius of missile vs sig size of the ship.
Seems a bit odd if that's the case that you don't get 100% damage on a stopped target with a gun if tracking = 0 when a small ship is stopped.
Hey CPP - Time we put highsec back to how it was originally designed - http://i.imgur.com/GT0T0oS.jpg
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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1935
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Posted - 2016.11.11 05:56:34 -
[28] - Quote
Steffles wrote:Seems a bit odd if that's the case that you don't get 100% damage on a stopped target with a gun if tracking = 0 when a small ship is stopped. Well... look at it from other side.
In real world you never have mathematical precision. You always have some randomized disperse of output. And the most effort always comes to reduce size of this possible disperse.
Now big guns shooting small target. Yes, you can have perfect lock on target but the target is small and your guns are big (which means bigger disperse of output vector). Now EvE's system makes sense.
In RL on the other hand your shot can completely miss the target even if it passed very closely. In EvE you get reduced damage
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Steffles
University of Caille Gallente Federation
44
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Posted - 2016.11.11 06:33:47 -
[29] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Steffles wrote:Seems a bit odd if that's the case that you don't get 100% damage on a stopped target with a gun if tracking = 0 when a small ship is stopped. Well... look at it from other side. In real world you never have mathematical precision. You always have some randomized disperse of output. And the most effort always comes to reduce size of this possible disperse. Now big guns shooting small target. Yes, you can have perfect lock on target but the target is small and your guns are big (which means bigger disperse of output vector). Now EvE's system makes sense. In RL on the other hand your shot can completely miss the target even if it passed very closely. In EvE you get reduced damage Yeah except that the sig radius of a weapon is tied to tracking, not tied to damage reduction by sig size like missiles are.
Formula: gun tracking * (target sig radius / gun sig resolution)
Or is sig radius of target also used to reduce damage?
Hey CPP - Time we put highsec back to how it was originally designed - http://i.imgur.com/GT0T0oS.jpg
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Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
116
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Posted - 2016.11.11 07:12:35 -
[30] - Quote
It's all in the formula. The higher the dice roll, the higher the damage multiplier (except for wrecking shots). If your chance to hit is too low though, the higher dice rolls will miss and do no damage at all. To provide an extreme example: NPCs tend to fly away from you in a straight line when you get below their preferred orbit. This means I can get 100% chance to hit on NPC frigates with 1400s even when I'm closer to them than 1km.
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