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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
5680
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Posted - 2016.11.11 16:13:21 -
[1] - Quote
Hello
With the release of Ascension just around the corner, we realized that one implication of the Clone States has not been discussed yet, and we wanted to make sure and bring it up as it may affect your corporations.
Because Clone States allows anyone to login and play as an Alpha, our old account status system has undergone changes. One of them is that from now on, there will be no expired state associated with accounts, they will all be considered 'active'. Before Clone Status, disabled or expired accounts were not counted when calculating Corporation standings. This means that after the release of Ascension, your Corp standings may change if you have characters in the Corp that had been inactive or expired.
This may mean some extra admin work at release if inactive characters are having an undesired affect on standings. Unfortunately, we can't avoid that without making major changes to standings calculations which we A: don't want to do and B: would be out of scope for this release anyway.
Sorry for any inconvenience, the good news is that you can tell those players with expired accounts that they have no reason not to log in and play :)
@ccp_rise
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Yarosara Ruil
Haighare Pirates
677
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Posted - 2016.11.11 17:18:20 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:This may mean some extra admin work at release if inactive characters are having an undesired affect on standings. Unfortunately, we can't avoid that without making major changes to standings calculations which we A: don't want to do and B: would be out of scope for this release anyway.
You think you don't want that, but you should reconsider.
The way standings are calculated is rubbish. Players and NPC standings work on two different wavelengths, for the sake of convenience player standings are set to -10, -5, 0, +5 and +10 values, because setting specific values to a player is impossible since the standing slider has the precision of a surgeon wearing oven mittens. And don't get me started on the fact that NPC standings work in an asymptote function, that gets stupidly harder to raise the higher the value gets, while no such distinction is given when standing penalties are involved.
Also, there's the fact that even with positive Guristas corporation and faction standings, Guristas still shoot players on sight and unprovoked, making it exceedingly hard to sustain those standings when resorting to self-defense. Plus, you've been removing the advantages of high NPC standings with each passing year, to the point they just make up for a poor roleplaying tool and a gatekeeper for missions.
My opinion might be worth less than spit, but I'd like that you guys give some thought to reviewing the standing system down the line, even if it takes years to make it a reality. Just saying. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Tactical-Retreat
2100
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Posted - 2016.11.11 17:23:02 -
[3] - Quote
With factional warfare being one of the most likely places to receive new alpha players, and (if I recall correctly) stated CCP intent to redirect players toward FW at the end of the new tutorial, it would be a big mistake to consider the standing system as "out of the scope of this release".
People taking faction standing hits without realizing it, and then quitting when they realize what they have to do to bring them back up, will definitely be a thing.
Similarly, the idea of being able to help newbies get access to higher level missions due to their presence in a player corporation could be a nice advantage given to player corporations in high-sec, which suffer from so many disadvantages due to the war dec system, it's not even funny... Instead, we have this system, which makes it counterproductive to recruit newbies if you want high corp standings.
Another wasted opportunity
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr
Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
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John McCreedy
Eve Defence Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
230
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Posted - 2016.11.11 17:33:39 -
[4] - Quote
Yarosara Ruil wrote:CCP Rise wrote:This may mean some extra admin work at release if inactive characters are having an undesired affect on standings. Unfortunately, we can't avoid that without making major changes to standings calculations which we A: don't want to do and B: would be out of scope for this release anyway. You think you don't want that, but you should reconsider. The way standings are calculated is rubbish. Players and NPC standings work on two different wavelengths, for the sake of convenience player standings are set to -10, -5, 0, +5 and +10 values, because setting specific values to a player is impossible since the standing slider has the precision of a surgeon wearing oven mittens. And don't get me started on the fact that NPC standings work in an asymptote function, that gets stupidly harder to raise the higher the value gets, while no such distinction is given when standing penalties are involved. Why on earth are standings calculated based on percentages instead of a flat value? And why is it that each standing rank is a flat 100% and the maximum being 1000%? Wait, that's wrong, because a "maxed" 10 NPC standing is actually a 999,999999% rounded up with CCP_round magic. Also, there's the fact that even with positive Guristas corporation and faction standings, Guristas still shoot players on sight and unprovoked, making it exceedingly hard to sustain those standings when resorting to self-defense. Plus, you've been removing the advantages of high NPC standings with each passing year, to the point they just make up for a poor roleplaying tool and a gatekeeper for missions. My opinion might be worth less than spit, but I'd like that you guys give some thought to reviewing the standing system down the line, even if it takes years to make it a reality. Just saying.
Your opinion is worth less than spit because to CCP, CEOs and Directors opinions are worth less than **** and unless you're some flavor of the month and/or CSM, we won't be listened to. In short, CCP don't give a **** about Corporations any more and haven't for a number of years now.
12 years and counting. Eve Defence Force is recruiting.
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Shalmon Aliatus
Bluestar Enterprises The Craftsmen
35
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Posted - 2016.11.11 17:52:18 -
[5] - Quote
What about war decs ? |
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate
1755
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Posted - 2016.11.11 17:54:32 -
[6] - Quote
"Out of scope"
I'm confused... account time vs last login time... is there really that much of a difference? |
Yarosara Ruil
Haighare Pirates
678
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Posted - 2016.11.11 18:15:39 -
[7] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:"Out of scope"
I'm confused... account time vs last login time... is there really that much of a difference?
Way back when jump clones required standings to install, an active player could contribute their standings to their corporation to allow everyone to install jump clones in stations belonging to any NPC corp that met the standing requirements. Their standing contribution,however, would be turned off if they didn't had an active subscription. The same way ghost training (training skills without a subscription) is also disabled.
What happens now is that every account will have a "subscription" come 15th of November, and what we will be playing is for the Omega status, as opposed to the freemium Alpha status. When that happens, players that didn't have a subscription paid account will count as subscribed, activating their login privileges, their skill training, and corporation standing contribution.
What this means for Faction Warfare corporations is that suddenly their Faction standings might drop thanks to inactive players becoming active. If those faction standings drop bellow 0 for their main faction, they will be kicked out of FW. Same is true for alliances. |
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
5680
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Posted - 2016.11.11 19:02:40 -
[8] - Quote
Quote:You think you don't want that, but you should reconsider.
Sorry, to be more clear, my team doesn't want to take on standings system changes as part of the Clone States work. You are likely correct that the system definitely warrants improvement and hopefully we (the dev team) get an opportunity to do that. I'm just saying that we (Team Size Matters) aren't interested or able to try and take that on right now.
Hope that makes more sense.
@ccp_rise
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Demolishar
United Aggression Corpse Collectors Group
1177
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Posted - 2016.11.11 19:16:28 -
[9] - Quote
So basically, kick your inactive members with bad standings before the 15th. |
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate
1755
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Posted - 2016.11.11 19:19:57 -
[10] - Quote
Yarosara Ruil wrote:What happens now is that every account will have a "subscription" come 15th of November, and what we will be playing is for the Omega status, as opposed to the freemium Alpha status.
I get that, my question was more of a technical one.
If standings were calculated based on account status (I assume account status is a database index) why would it not be a (comparatively) simple change to have standings based on last login time (presumably another index).
This is assuming that there's a single process which calculates them at downtime. I seem to remember that being the case.
I think that would be better than a rather-poor "We don't want to deal with it" even when it falls under the effects of alpha clones in every way, shape and form.
Disclosure: I do not expect to be hit by this adjustment. I just have an interest in CCP teams not being allowed to cut corners. |
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Velarra
543
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Posted - 2016.11.11 19:35:05 -
[11] - Quote
Yarosara Ruil wrote:CCP Rise wrote:This may mean some extra admin work at release if inactive characters are having an undesired affect on standings. Unfortunately, we can't avoid that without making major changes to standings calculations which we A: don't want to do and B: would be out of scope for this release anyway. You think you don't want that, but you should reconsider. The way standings are calculated is rubbish. Players and NPC standings work on two different wavelengths, for the sake of convenience player standings are set to -10, -5, 0, +5 and +10 values, because setting specific values to a player is impossible since the standing slider has the precision of a surgeon wearing oven mittens. And don't get me started on the fact that NPC standings work in an asymptote function, that gets stupidly harder to raise the higher the value gets, while no such distinction is given when standing penalties are involved. Why on earth are standings calculated based on percentages instead of a flat value? And why is it that each standing rank is a flat 100% and the maximum being 1000%? Wait, that's wrong, because a "maxed" 10 NPC standing is actually a 999,999999% rounded up with CCP_round magic. Also, there's the fact that even with positive Guristas corporation and faction standings, Guristas still shoot players on sight and unprovoked, making it exceedingly hard to sustain those standings when resorting to self-defense. Plus, you've been removing the advantages of high NPC standings with each passing year, to the point they just make up for a poor roleplaying tool and a gatekeeper for missions. My opinion might be worth less than spit, but I'd like that you guys give some thought to reviewing the standing system down the line, even if it takes years to make it a reality. Just saying.
While you may be one of the Guri, ... in league with Nation and the Blood Raiders... You are certainly not alone in your valuing of Standings and how important they are to some of New Eden's Pilots. |
Flextra Aurilen
Deutsche Lichtbringer AG Fidelas Constans
1
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Posted - 2016.11.11 20:48:52 -
[12] - Quote
I assume the "paidUntil" field in XML API's AccountStatus doesn't change, right? So we can still see how long their Omega is active? |
El 1974
Green Visstick High
155
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Posted - 2016.11.11 21:47:44 -
[13] - Quote
Shalmon Aliatus wrote:What about war decs ? Yes, IIRC war dec cost are also related to the number of active players in a corporation. Will war dec cost go up now? |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
19024
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Posted - 2016.11.11 23:54:17 -
[14] - Quote
El 1974 wrote:Shalmon Aliatus wrote:What about war decs ? Yes, IIRC war dec cost are also related to the number of active players in a corporation. Will war dec cost go up now? Pretty sure they're going to stay the same. It's tied to the membership, I don't ever remember seeing anything about active members through.
We're Back in Business ,
have your very own Meeny Faced Bastards on call today
=]|[=
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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
428
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Posted - 2016.11.12 01:54:28 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Rise, how much work would it be to tie the standings calculation to the Omega members only?
Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
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Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc.
1557
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Posted - 2016.11.12 02:02:59 -
[16] - Quote
Petrified wrote:CCP Rise, how much work would it be to tie the standings calculation to the Omega members only?
According to his above post, a lot more than they are able or willing to do for now. To quantify it into an actual man-hours count is likely impossible. |
DJB16
DJB Alpha
27
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Posted - 2016.11.13 15:52:13 -
[17] - Quote
ive asked on twitter to several CCP members but no one has said yet
can your transfer Characters from alpha clone status or do you need to be Omega to do so char bazaar rule 11 and 13 need to be updated to reflect this also please also make a public post about it |
Feed Syndication
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.11.14 06:13:50 -
[18] - Quote
Isn't "number of active accounts" also used in calculating war costs? |
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1827
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Posted - 2016.11.14 08:52:12 -
[19] - Quote
Quote:The formula for calculating wardec cost is (log2.05831 N)^2 * 300000 * N^0.27, where N is the number of members in the target corp/alliance.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/War_Declaration |
Sarus Gailen
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.12.02 02:47:06 -
[20] - Quote
Reminder, this is just speculation and is only brought up because of the Gnosis.
Is there a possibility that battlecruisers (except for the ones that can use BB guns) be made available to Alpha clones in the future? I mean this is only me wondering because I can fly a Gnosis. And despite it being an ugly ship I can fit it out quite nicely even with only using T1 weaponry.
The battlecruiser is still a medium-sized ship and can only use medium weapons (except the so-called 'T3' ones that can use battleship turrets. I know, wrong way of calling them but the name stuck to many other people). |
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Energizer Hashem
Taurus Quantum Technologies Taurus Quantum Dynamics
0
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Posted - 2016.12.02 17:00:24 -
[21] - Quote
About racial restrictions, than one can only access ships and weapon systems of his empire, iam amarrian but chose the caldari playing style so iam skilled on it so it sucks to return to the game to find that i completely lost my playing style Why that racial restrictions? |
James HudsonJr
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.12.05 19:54:55 -
[22] - Quote
As a alpha clone that was a regular player for years before. I have seen some odd things since I came back. I asked about some books in skills that can be bought by alphas, but never used. I was told on the help line that the alphas are racial and so not everything can be used. I then asked why my Amar destroyer has 3 missile slots and when I paid 100k for the book, it cant be trained, and launchers...of any type...cant be used on an alpha clone. I asked again in help why and got the same answer, so came here. If you want to racialize the alpha clones that's fine, but do it all the way or not at all. If Amar ships use nothing but beam weapons then that's it...but they dont...I believe you tried to make a limited racial system cutting out things that alphas want to get them to subscribe..nothing unusual there. But you made it twice as hard on yourselves... do it this way. Want to limit alphas easier? Make them racialized like now BUT let them have every skill or ship that the civilization they choose can use...BUT only in tech 1 equipment. The people you want to pay for subscriptions are the ones with the cash to d it, so let them rush to buy plex at ridiculous prices and spent tons of cash on tech 2-3 ships. The alphas are for the most part either new players trying out the game, or old player who cant afford to pay every month. Let us play in a limited way without having to pick and choose what skills and ships we can play with. No one in a tech 1 cruiser is safe nearly anywhere, and the higher level players with their tech 2-3 equipment and skills will still have lots of fodder to hunt. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2989
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Posted - 2016.12.15 06:29:25 -
[23] - Quote
I can't say for sure, but I worry that certain farming opportunities available to lower-skilled characters in smaller ships may be too abundant at current. It seems very possible that, should we get a large influx of new players on alpha clones, certain portions of the market may see prices change drastically. Things I am most concerned with:
- Veldspar in highsec/Tritanium - abundance may lead to drop in price despite them using Ventures edit: actually they'll probably be using proportionately more tritanium, so nevermind
- Hacking/Archaeology in lowsec and nullsec - probe frigates and moderate skills are adequate for the second most difficult sites
- Gas mining in W-space - Gas Harvesting 2 is all you need to max output on a Venture
- tech 3 materials from class 1 sites in W-space - 1-2 moderately skilled T1 cruisers is enough to beat these sites and they are a good source of direct ISK
- Implants from level 2 and 3 storyline missions - since they can't farm level 4s very well, mission runners will likely run many level 3s
The new alpha clone players may also raise the price of market goods which they can use but cannot produce very well, such as level 4/5 mission yields/rewards, deadspace and officer modules, or any PI products they have a use for. There might be some benefit to price increases on some of the deadspace modules as a few of the more potent ones are alarmingly cheap, but otherwise I think the changes will be a bad thing and thus should be mitigated to prevent them from causing major economic upheaval.
I do feel that they should be able to produce PI goods, albeit with a low output. It's difficult to balance, though, to prevent it from being a source of income for those who would farm many free accounts. Perhaps they could control only one command center, but could upgrade it to level 4--with the catch being that they cannot build a spaceport. They can get a decent level of production going, but they have to use the command center launch to retrieve the goods, meaning that the time cost of collecting the goods will defeat attempts to farm many accounts to make profit on it.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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