Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1086
|
Posted - 2016.11.12 23:54:01 -
[1] - Quote
I think the title says it all. I really want to see killmails for these expensive things. It gives incentive to people to pick off the fighters rather than the miners/rorqual in certain cases. And given the expensive nature of these new drone/fighters showing the isk expenditure with a lossmail would be a good thing imo.
Thanx.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
764
|
Posted - 2016.11.13 00:20:58 -
[2] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:I think the title says it all. I really want to see killmails for these expensive things. It gives incentive to people to pick off the fighters rather than the miners/rorqual in certain cases. And given the expensive nature of these new drone/fighters showing the isk expenditure with a lossmail would be a good thing imo. Thanx.
How does that give someone an incentive? Being on killmails means you are giving free intel about yourself to other people. I want to be on as little killmails as possible. If I could never have a killmail be generated for anyone or anything I killed, I'd take that option in a heartbeat. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3707
|
Posted - 2016.11.13 00:34:29 -
[3] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote: How does that give someone an incentive? Being on killmails means you are giving free intel about yourself to other people. I want to be on as little killmails as possible. If I could never have a killmail be generated for anyone or anything I killed, I'd take that option in a heartbeat.
Because unlike you most people love to brag about their (normally fake due to split value) Killboard efficiency. |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
764
|
Posted - 2016.11.13 00:50:20 -
[4] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Because unlike you most people love to brag about their (normally fake due to split value) Killboard efficiency.
To each his own (I'm not going to tell anyone how to play this game) but I have a hard time flying with someone who needs to keep ISK efficiency above 90% on KBs. To me, that just means they are so risk averse they will never take a fight they don't know they can win.
Some of the best times in EVE are when you say f*ck it, lets go when you know you might lose spectacularly. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1086
|
Posted - 2016.11.13 01:20:34 -
[5] - Quote
It has little to do with killboard efficiency but the likely fact that these drones will be a considerable isk value on their own and killing one IS often the point even of a single or small roam in terms of efficiency. Some Alpha noobs killing even one excavator in exchange for a few cheap frigates or cruisers is a good thing imo even if you cannot kill the rorqual or they all die in a fire doing it. It gives people incentive simply because people understand value in terms of currency. It also means that the person you attacked LOST something in the attempt and everyone will know it rather than it being just a drone.
There is a reason CCP changed it so fighters gave killmails so there is zero reasons not to continue this with excavators.
As for killboards and killmails I would change them drastically myself as I am a firm believer that dissemination of information IS a huge issue for Eve in the information age. But this is an entirely different reason.
And as a rorqual pilot that sat in a POS in YHN for hours and days on end this is pertinent to me as well. These drones will NOT be cheap, especially at first and hitting a rorqual pilot for around 600mil to 1bil in drones before they can scoop them is a POWERFUL incentive for roams that might just die in a fire to do so. That figure is based on the 60K LP and 40mil price in the ORE LP stores price given that ORE expanded cargoholds are 67.5K LP and 45mil and are roughly 220-250mil in Jita currently. These will be newer and more sensitive imo in certain cases and therefore will likely command a better price. 5 of these will be likely more than a bil isk at first. Each of these is a hulk in itself in both price and effectiveness and a worthy target in its own right.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1649
|
Posted - 2016.11.13 01:34:40 -
[6] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: Each of these is a hulk in itself in both price and effectiveness and a worthy target in its own right.
Seen through the prism of isk value, it does make sense, even Mobile Depots generate a mail. Suppose it's because drones, no matter how expensive, are seen as weapons, not structures. Are we going to insist that a carrier's fighters have their own killboards when they kill expensive things?
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
|
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1086
|
Posted - 2016.11.13 02:33:04 -
[7] - Quote
No I dont think you would have to go that far lol the reality is that fighters didnt generate lossmails until the changes and these are:
The new GÇÿExcavatorGÇÖ Mining Superdrones are the ultimate culmination of drone mining technology. These giant drones (pictured above) are the result of secretive ORE research into rogue drones. They can only be used by Rorqual-class capital industrial ships. By themselves a set of GÇÿExcavatorGÇÖ Superdrones make the Rorqual the most powerful mining ship in the game, and when boosted by an active Industrial Core module they each individually gain the yield of an Exhumer. These Superdrones use the drone system (they are not fighters) and function just like normal mining drones. They require the Mining Drone Specialization and gain its benefits
"Superdrones" that equal an exhumer. That isnt chump change to a pilot.... either side of the killmail.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1653
|
Posted - 2016.11.14 08:25:23 -
[8] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: "Superdrones" that equal an exhumer. That isnt chump change to a pilot.... either side of the killmail.
Again with the isk value, i don't think that's relevant.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
|
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1086
|
Posted - 2016.11.14 14:36:33 -
[9] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: "Superdrones" that equal an exhumer. That isnt chump change to a pilot.... either side of the killmail.
Again with the isk value, i don't think that's relevant. Reshipping and wars of attrition say that your opinion is invalid. If you get destroyed and cannot replace that ships value over time in a sustained attack/defense situation nor have the will to do so because it is not "fun," worth it, or for any other reason such as morale dictates then you will either not do so or not be able to. Isk value isnt just about paper value but about how it applies to the ability to defend.
When I first started playing Eve isk value of a ships kill didnt matter, it was purely number of kills versus number of losses. This gradually changed to wars of attrition most commonly idealized by Goonswarms "noob swarm" style tactics to use cheap ships to take out larger, more expensive ones. It is ironically the same tactic used by the Russians during WWII against the Germans. The T-34s for vastly inferior tank designs but when produced in such high numbers to the German Panzers, Tigers and Panthers, technologically superior tanks but limited in numbers, they overwhelmed them.
These are real world and in game examples of how the warfront has changed. CCPs inclusion in the game design to "build where you live" and the ideas of system indexs means that wars of attrition are being fought more and more. Especially as isk piles grow in personal, corporate and alliance level wallets. Until either morale is broken or isk reserves are used up and one is unable to field fleets to defend or attack objectives. The "Hell camping" of systems is a common occurrence now, which is reminiscent of many "castle" sieges or even Stalingrad, the Berlin "siege" just after WWII where NATO forces shipped in millions of tons of supplies to Berlin citizens before the corridor was reopened. And let us not forget the German U-boat blockade of Britian during WWII that brought an entire nations food and supply reserves down to approximately 2 weeks worth.
If you think isk value in these cases means just that then you are greatly mistaken. If I can kill your industrial supply lines and SHOW you you are hurting because you must resupply again and again and that supply line is LIMITED to begin with then there is a REAL threat to your supply lines and as such IS a very valid target in a true war effort.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1937
|
Posted - 2016.11.14 17:22:55 -
[10] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: "Superdrones" that equal an exhumer. That isnt chump change to a pilot.... either side of the killmail.
Again with the isk value, i don't think that's relevant. Reshipping and wars of attrition say that your opinion is invalid. If you get destroyed and cannot replace that ships value over time in a sustained attack/defense situation nor have the will to do so because it is not "fun," worth it, or for any other reason such as morale dictates then you will either not do so or not be able to. Isk value isnt just about paper value but about how it applies to the ability to defend. When I first started playing Eve isk value of a ships kill didnt matter, it was purely number of kills versus number of losses. This gradually changed to wars of attrition most commonly idealized by Goonswarms "noob swarm" style tactics to use cheap ships to take out larger, more expensive ones. It is ironically the same tactic used by the Russians during WWII against the Germans. The T-34s for vastly inferior tank designs but when produced in such high numbers to the German Panzers, Tigers and Panthers, technologically superior tanks but limited in numbers, they overwhelmed them. These are real world and in game examples of how the warfront has changed. CCPs inclusion in the game design to "build where you live" and the ideas of system indexs means that wars of attrition are being fought more and more. Especially as isk piles grow in personal, corporate and alliance level wallets. Until either morale is broken or isk reserves are used up and one is unable to field fleets to defend or attack objectives. The "Hell camping" of systems is a common occurrence now, which is reminiscent of many "castle" sieges or even Stalingrad, the Berlin "siege" just after WWII where NATO forces shipped in millions of tons of supplies to Berlin citizens before the corridor was reopened. And let us not forget the German U-boat blockade of Britian during WWII that brought an entire nations food and supply reserves down to approximately 2 weeks worth. If you think isk value in these cases means just that then you are greatly mistaken. If I can kill your industrial supply lines and SHOW you you are hurting because you must resupply again and again and that supply line is LIMITED to begin with then there is a REAL threat to your supply lines and as such IS a very valid target in a true war effort. I think you are seeing too much in simple 'destroyed ISK value" The only thing lossmail can say is that you lost stuff. Whether you replaced it or not you cannot see from lossmail.
Just for exmaple: loss for 1 million when you have 5million against lossmail for 10 billion when your wallet is in trillions....
Back to topic: i see no reasons to have killmails from these drones. Yes, it is like final slap in the face: "HA, you need to replace drones AND you have lossmail i can show to anyone!".... Other than that? Where are the reasons?
Talking about bragging rights we have no lossmails for failed attacks too. Eighter you killed him and you have killmail or you don't and 'nothing happened'
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
|
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1086
|
Posted - 2016.11.14 17:57:07 -
[11] - Quote
Yet you are arguing against killmails period now and that is silly imo as in the last sentence you negated your entire point. Either you killed him or you didnt....
200mil+ drones arent just killmail worthy when ALL capital fighter drones now already give killmails when they are 10-15mil+ isk. These are CAPITAL fighter drones just for a Capital mining ship and should be afforded the same reality and consistency.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
Ammath
Mentis Fidelis ChaosTheory.
7
|
Posted - 2016.11.14 21:19:46 -
[12] - Quote
Give Rorquals a Fighter Bay, and make them a 'fighter' so they can be organized into squadrons, and have MWD/MJDs, and triple their HP and resists, and base speed.... and I am fine with a killmail.
But also let rorqs roll 2 light fighter squadrons and 1 support or mining squadron each .... :D
|
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
443
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 01:07:40 -
[13] - Quote
Moved To Player Feature and Ideas.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Evemails.
|
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1087
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 01:42:35 -
[14] - Quote
ISD Max Trix wrote:Moved To Player Feature and Ideas. ISD Max Trix lights cyno and moves thread......
Enemy supercaps inbound!!
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1462
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 09:08:58 -
[15] - Quote
If I may make a suggestion, if those drones are so valuable why would you kill them in the first place instead of killing the ship and keep the drones?
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them.
This is the law
|
Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
189
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 14:57:42 -
[16] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:If I may make a suggestion, if those drones are so valuable why would you kill them in the first place instead of killing the ship and keep the drones? Because they're freaking huge and much s squishier than a Rorqual.
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
|
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1088
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 17:41:58 -
[17] - Quote
Dark Lord Trump wrote:elitatwo wrote:If I may make a suggestion, if those drones are so valuable why would you kill them in the first place instead of killing the ship and keep the drones? Because they're freaking huge and much s squishier than a Rorqual. What he said. They also reduce the mining output and are harder to acquire thereby causing logistics and other interventive measures to halt production and resupply based on usage through denial of items causing a supply/demand bottleneck that can be exploited just as well as any other items in Eve. Controlling and manipulating markets has always been a hallmark of Eve.
The fact that it is and will be much easier to pop these than a rorqual, about as easy as a hulk lets say, means that you can do significant damage to a mining operation both isk and production wise in a very short time. It also gives an option to those who wish to attack these targets solo or in small groups as an effective way to harass and harry them without need for a larger force. Forcing more counterplay and defense options to be fielded or to simply downgrade to a more viable form of boosting like the Orca or the Porpoise.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
454
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 18:50:45 -
[18] - Quote
Concentrated Veldspar Asteroid [image] CCP
Asteroid (Veldspar)
2016.11.16 22:38 ZXJ-71 -0.7 < XLL-Z7 < Querious
Involved Parties (1)
Final Blow Rorqual oid Buster [Excavator Drone] 117,566 (100.0%)
Top Damage Rorqual Roid Buster [Excavator Drone] 117,566 (100.0%)
Fitting and Content Concentrated Veldspar 117,566 Total Worth: 2,338,387.74 ISK
Here's your Excavator Drone KM. :)
--Helpful Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
|
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1089
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 19:45:48 -
[19] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Concentrated Veldspar Asteroid [image] CCP
Asteroid (Veldspar)
2016.11.16 22:38 ZXJ-71 -0.7 < XLL-Z7 < Querious
Involved Parties (1)
Final Blow Rorqual Roid Buster [Excavator Drone] 117,566 (100.0%)
Top Damage Rorqual Roid Buster [Excavator Drone] 117,566 (100.0%)
Fitting and Content Concentrated Veldspar 117,566 Total Worth: 2,338,387.74 ISK
Here's your Excavator Drone KM. :)
--Helpful Gadget Youre so helpful Gadget I dont know what we would do without you here!!
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1089
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 19:48:41 -
[20] - Quote
Excavator Drone Entry
There is an entry.... heres to hoping!!
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
|
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
549
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 20:24:15 -
[21] - Quote
I always fail to realise how important KM are to some, I don't get why it's important...just seems so trivial to me. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1089
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 21:50:35 -
[22] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:I always fail to realise how important KM are to some, I don't get why it's important...just seems so trivial to me. Intel is one thing, market manipulation is another. Even to NPCs if one dies you know what they are doing there. How many die and how prices fluctuate as a result is always good intel.
There are a lot more to killmails than just isk values, k/d ratios and epeen waving you know.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |