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Katrina Harkonnen
Sisters of Steel Moist.
8
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Posted - 2016.11.13 20:33:42 -
[1] - Quote
Comparing a Rattlesnake (with drones) and a Carrier (with fighters), I come to the conclusion, that the new fighter mechanic is two steps backwards.
I kindly ask CCP to change the behavior as follows:
1. Give fighters the ability for autoagression or at least "keep moving". 2. Allow to form fighter groups with arbitrary number. 3. Provide better feedback on fighter status, wrt shield, armor, hull.
Reason:
1. Once a fighter group finishes a target, it speed changes to 0, sitting there as lame ducks and practive targets. Drones behave more intelligent and look for the next target. I never lost a drone, but I alredy lost several fighters under identical circumstances. 2. Why can I only target and fight 3 targets? Any drone boat can do better. And in PvE I have to deal with a lot of frigs, where the firepower of a whole squad is overkill. Again, under indentical circumstances, a carrier is worse than any other drone boat. 3. I see "something is damaged". The next I see, is "fighter has gone". Drones give precise feedback, when the right time has come to call it back. I do not see, why a carrier, precisely designed for the role of controlling fighters, gives me less situational awareness.
In General: should a carrier not be better at controlling fighters, than any other ship controlling its drones?
Another suggestion: provide a "drag and drop" function, to drop fighter squad icons on target icons.
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Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
129
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Posted - 2016.11.13 20:44:30 -
[2] - Quote
Katrina Harkonnen wrote:Comparing a Rattlesnake (with drones) and a Carrier (with fighters), I come to the conclusion, that the new fighter mechanic is two steps backwards.
I kindly ask CCP to change the behavior as follows:
1. Give fighters the ability for autoagression or at least "keep moving". 2. Allow to form fighter groups with arbitrary number. 3. Provide better feedback on fighter status, wrt shield, armor, hull.
Reason:
1. Once a fighter group finishes a target, it speed changes to 0, sitting there as lame ducks and practive targets. Drones behave more intelligent and look for the next target. I never lost a drone, but I alredy lost several fighters under identical circumstances. 2. Why can I only target and fight 3 targets? Any drone boat can do better. And in PvE I have to deal with a lot of frigs, where the firepower of a whole squad is overkill. Again, under indentical circumstances, a carrier is worse than any other drone boat. 3. I see "something is damaged". The next I see, is "fighter has gone". Drones give precise feedback, when the right time has come to call it back. I do not see, why a carrier, precisely designed for the role of controlling fighters, gives me less situational awareness.
In General: should a carrier not be better at controlling fighters, than any other ship controlling its drones?
Another suggestion: provide a "drag and drop" function, to drop fighter squad icons on target icons.
It's great the way it is. Check your skills because I can target 10 ships at once. Spread your squads out ahd take frigs and cruisers on indivudually then use them tpgether againdt battleships. Also just hold you mouse and it'll tell you damage to the drone. And keep them moving.
I forgot anything? |
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1937
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Posted - 2016.11.13 20:49:03 -
[3] - Quote
Cien Banchiere wrote: I forgot anything?
in short words you forgot to read OP...
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate
1756
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Posted - 2016.11.13 23:23:11 -
[4] - Quote
That fighters just stop moving once they've killed a target is god-damned-annoying...
"Oh hai, our only defence is sig tank, so we're going to sit here so we can just be volleyed at 15m a pop until a circle has finished spinning and you've issued a new command!" |
Nomistrav
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
351
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Posted - 2016.11.14 01:23:09 -
[5] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:That fighters just stop moving once they've killed a target is god-damned-annoying...
"Oh hai, our only defence is sig tank, so we're going to sit here so we can just be volleyed at 15m a pop until a circle has finished spinning and you've issued a new command!"
I've never flown carriers and that still sounds stupid, lol. IMO, at the very least, they should return back to the carrier until further orders are given in order to 'keep moving'. Drones do that, I believe.
I think the thing that always bothered me about drones in general is functionally they're very automatic and I'd much prefer to assign 'acting orders' that they follow under certain conditions unless I override with manual input. Stuff like, "If health <50%, return to carrier and dock" or "If no target, attack target firing at parent" sort of deal. Amazes me how these advanced factions come up with drones that don't even have basic programming. The Fighters should have -no- excuse.
Third Place Winner
Pod and Planet Fiction Contest YC114
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
1085
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Posted - 2016.11.14 06:06:26 -
[6] - Quote
The lack of auto-engaging is a change CCP made to keep fighters and their host ships balanced. The "sitting duck" issue is one that is shared across conventional drones as well and especially sucks when you're not in a drone boat with a drone HP buff or not using sentries. So is the complaint on GUI feedback being slow and misinforming. Lights on a non-drone boat typically get one- and two-shot by rats, for instance, often because they just sit in place between targets and by the time the drone GUI reflects damage from being shot, you either lose one outright or it loses most of it's HP. I've lost drones at times despite them being closer than 15k to them while keeping the right-stick menu open and mouse over "Return to drone bay" and watching for any red on there bars. It doesn't happen often fortunately due to how inconsistent rat AI has been and still is since CCP altered their target calling behaviors.
Truth is I'm only glad they don't cost so much to replace, though I feel the OP's frustration.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Trevize Demerzel
17
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Posted - 2016.11.14 13:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ya I'd like to see fighters keep moving/orbit after the current target is destroyed. Stopped is just lame.
Also for damage. Having to hover over and wait.... wait... wait.. oh and wait for the pop-up to tell you the % is also lame.
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Captain Awkward
Republic University Minmatar Republic
129
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Posted - 2016.11.14 13:50:53 -
[8] - Quote
The "stop to 0" thing is annoying. The HP bar could use a little refining. The rest is fine.
No need to split dmg of a squad to more then 1 target. |
Voxbot
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.11.14 17:47:41 -
[9] - Quote
How to not lose fighters
If your current target is almost dead tell your fighters to orbit the next target that will keep them from stoping after killing |
radkid10
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
37
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Posted - 2016.11.15 00:15:13 -
[10] - Quote
I recommend using something else killing NPCs in a carrier is ********
I'm surprised you don't know how to get the Drone menu up my Drones always engaged things that attacked me
set them to be aggressive and it will automatically attack anything it fires on you or them |
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
1086
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Posted - 2016.11.15 02:22:24 -
[11] - Quote
Voxbot wrote:How to not lose fighters
If your current target is almost dead tell your fighters to orbit the next target that will keep them from stoping after killing
If it's anything like drones, they will still stop, but for a more brief moment since the command is more likely to catch the next server tick rather than several later like it normally does without manual control.
This does help, though, so not to count this trick out, but honestly a system like this shouldn't rely on tricks to make it work. I'm fine with how drones work when you're not paying them any attention, just not so much when you're actually taking the time and effort to micromanaging them.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
116
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Posted - 2016.11.15 03:11:29 -
[12] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:That fighters just stop moving once they've killed a target is god-damned-annoying...
"Oh hai, our only defence is sig tank, so we're going to sit here so we can just be volleyed at 15m a pop until a circle has finished spinning and you've issued a new command!" Yeah. If they changed this alone that would be a huge deal. |
Zappity
Horde Vanguard. Pandemic Horde
3058
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Posted - 2016.11.15 06:19:14 -
[13] - Quote
radkid10 wrote:I recommend using something else killing NPCs in a carrier is ********
I'm surprised you don't know how to get the Drone menu up my Drones always engaged things that attacked me
set them to be aggressive and it will automatically attack anything it fires on you or them I'm guessing you have never used fighters. They use an entirely different interface to drones. There is no automatic aggression functionality for fighters. Also, I'm not sure what your asterisks denote but I could suggest "efficient", "overpowered", or "really good isk".
I doubt CCP will add such a function. But an automatic 'return and orbit' would be better than nothing, especially given the annoying delay between the NPC being killed and the fighter cycling down. They often take damage if frigates are on field regardless of how alert you are.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
116
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Posted - 2016.11.15 15:32:03 -
[14] - Quote
Zappity wrote:radkid10 wrote:I recommend using something else killing NPCs in a carrier is ********
I'm surprised you don't know how to get the Drone menu up my Drones always engaged things that attacked me
set them to be aggressive and it will automatically attack anything it fires on you or them I'm guessing you have never used fighters. They use an entirely different interface to drones. There is no automatic aggression functionality for fighters. Also, I'm not sure what your asterisks denote but I could suggest "efficient", "overpowered", or "really good isk". I doubt CCP will add such a function. But an automatic 'return and orbit' would be better than nothing, especially given the annoying delay between the NPC being killed and the fighter cycling down. They often take damage if frigates are on field regardless of how alert you are. Exactly, often times they get alphad too :( |
Katrina Harkonnen
Sisters of Steel Moist.
10
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Posted - 2016.11.18 11:09:30 -
[15] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Cien Banchiere wrote: I forgot anything?
in short words you forgot to read OP... to OP: CCP changed carriers to lower load on servers.... So we won't get more squads soon. Carrier: 3, super: 5. That's all. Agree with you about stupid fighter behaviour. But personally i almost never lose fighters. You just watch them and always keep in work. Not sure what you want to get from shield/armor/structure indication tho....
I try to watch them too, but with the same amount of effort / attention, I never get into trouble with other ships, that use normal drones. shield/armor/structure indicator is not necessary, but I want a better feedback on the damage % Could also the single red bar, but filled proportionally to the total damage.
Sisters of Steel - we are recruiting now!
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Katrina Harkonnen
Sisters of Steel Moist.
10
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Posted - 2016.11.18 11:13:55 -
[16] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Cien Banchiere wrote: I forgot anything?
in short words you forgot to read OP... to OP: CCP changed carriers to lower load on servers.... So we won't get more squads soon. Carrier: 3, super: 5. That's all. Agree with you about stupid fighter behaviour. But personally i almost never lose fighters. You just watch them and always keep in work. Not sure what you want to get from shield/armor/structure indication tho....
If server load was the issue, they should have changed the mechanics for all drones. I would guess, that there are much less carriers in space at any time, than ships with standard drones.
Sisters of Steel - we are recruiting now!
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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1944
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Posted - 2016.11.18 11:47:30 -
[17] - Quote
Katrina Harkonnen wrote:March rabbit wrote:Cien Banchiere wrote: I forgot anything?
in short words you forgot to read OP... to OP: CCP changed carriers to lower load on servers.... So we won't get more squads soon. Carrier: 3, super: 5. That's all. Agree with you about stupid fighter behaviour. But personally i almost never lose fighters. You just watch them and always keep in work. Not sure what you want to get from shield/armor/structure indication tho.... If server load was the issue, they should have changed the mechanics for all drones. I would guess, that there are much less carriers in space at any time, than ships with standard drones. Well.... I remember when Rattlesnake and Gila got their drones halved in amount and doubled in DPS/HP. At that point of time it was given as "every drone is an object in space and needs special processing, etc...". I remember it well that i was sad losing my personal 'swarm of drones'.
I might be wrong for sure but i believe that carriers lost their drones at the same time. And it was done for the same reason. (Yes, yes, AFK too but it could be solved another way?)
Why other ships still have full amount of drones? I don't know. Maybe i'm wrong about Gila and Rattlesnake? Or maybe server load is no more a problem? Or CCP found new thing to switch to?
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
2976
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Posted - 2016.11.18 15:22:20 -
[18] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Katrina Harkonnen wrote:March rabbit wrote:Cien Banchiere wrote: I forgot anything?
in short words you forgot to read OP... to OP: CCP changed carriers to lower load on servers.... So we won't get more squads soon. Carrier: 3, super: 5. That's all. Agree with you about stupid fighter behaviour. But personally i almost never lose fighters. You just watch them and always keep in work. Not sure what you want to get from shield/armor/structure indication tho.... If server load was the issue, they should have changed the mechanics for all drones. I would guess, that there are much less carriers in space at any time, than ships with standard drones. Well.... I remember when Rattlesnake and Gila got their drones halved in amount and doubled in DPS/HP. At that point of time it was given as "every drone is an object in space and needs special processing, etc...". I remember it well that i was sad losing my personal 'swarm of drones'. I might be wrong for sure but i believe that carriers lost their drones at the same time. And it was done for the same reason. (Yes, yes, AFK too but it could be solved another way?) Why other ships still have full amount of drones? I don't know. Maybe i'm wrong about Gila and Rattlesnake? Or maybe server load is no more a problem? Or CCP found new thing to switch to?
Guristas missile+drone combo ships were reduced to 2 drones as a flavor thing so they did not just become vexors / dominixes with missiles. It plays a bit differently with only 2 drones out instead of 5.
The carrier and super changes came from a complete revamp being done. You no longer get 10 or 15 drones capability because they wanted to flush the regular drones from there so they would have their own weapon system instead of using a sub-cap one in large number like sentry carriers. |
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