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Annabelle Le
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.11.18 02:23:40 -
[1] - Quote
I started a trial account a couple weeks ago because I had heard Eve was going free to play. I like the game and I was thinking of subscribing so I could take the training wheels off. However, other than unlimited skills what is the incentive to subscribe? I know that if you were a subscriber by a certain date you will get a ship in an up coming patch. But what about going forward for new players and of course those who have been subscribing for years? Please understand I am not asking for anything. Its just a question. Other games I have played have free to play models that offer different things to subscribers. Of course Eve not offering many skills to the free to play players can be seen as a reward for the loyal supports of the game. Just wondering where the free to play model verses play to play in Eve is going. |
Mark Marconi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
96
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Posted - 2016.11.18 02:30:21 -
[2] - Quote
Annabelle Le wrote:I started a trial account a couple weeks ago because I had heard Eve was going free to play. I like the game and I was thinking of subscribing so I could take the training wheels off. However, other than unlimited skills what is the incentive to subscribe? I know that if you were a subscriber by a certain date you will get a ship in an up coming patch. But what about going forward for new players and of course those who have been subscribing for years? Please understand I am not asking for anything. Its just a question. Other games I have played have free to play models that offer different things to subscribers. Of course Eve not offering many skills to the free to play players can be seen as a reward for the loyal supports of the game. Just wondering where the free to play model verses play to play in Eve is going. Where to start....
You get access to many more ships, higher wealth making abilities, Planetary interaction, better weapons, weapon skills.
Better access to trade, mining, killing, hell everything. For me atm I sub for the few moments a day I get to make some cash with planetary interaction, for the time when I actually have some time off and can pay.
What attracted me to EvE years ago was the fact I can work and still get some where with the Skill points, while other games I got no where at all. I ended up taking a break for 3 years because I got bored and had even less time.
So it depends on your time and what you want to do with the game if you want to sub or not. If you are happy putting around every once in a while to kill some time, not subbing is probably good. If you want to go further then you will need to sub. |
Xodiac Primus
New Eden's Best.
12
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Posted - 2016.11.18 02:37:13 -
[3] - Quote
Its really just an un-timed DEMO. Get the free-to-play thing out of your head as that's really not what they are offering in the least. Bait-N-Switch is alive and well..... |
Sir BloodArgon Aulmais
Maximus Corp The Volition Cult
1
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Posted - 2016.11.18 02:46:54 -
[4] - Quote
Xodiac Primus wrote:Its really just an un-timed DEMO. Get the free-to-play thing out of your head as that's really not what they are offering in the least. Bait-N-Switch is alive and well.....
Bait and switch? A game that required payment for regular access now requires no payment for regular access. FREE to PLAY.
Anything past that, is basically an incentive system. Why should something thats been millions of dollars in development over 10 plus years be fully free to the latest round of snot-nosed kids? 15$ a month (or less when you bundle) is hardly anything, a price I happily pay. |
Xodiac Primus
New Eden's Best.
12
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Posted - 2016.11.18 02:58:37 -
[5] - Quote
Bait and switch? A game that required payment for regular access now requires no payment for regular access. FREE to PLAY.
Anything past that, is basically an incentive system. Why should something thats been millions of dollars in development over 10 plus years be fully free to the latest round of snot-nosed kids? 15$ a month (or less when you bundle) is hardly anything, a price I happily pay. [/quote]
Oh.. I see I didn't realize that I get regular access and do not have to pay for regular access.... wait... thats not what I got. Where did you get the free-to-play Omega?
I have no problem with what they are doing, they should just not call it Free-To-Play as there are plenty of FTP games out there but you can literately play the entire game and you just pay for either faster advancement, vanity items etc... but you can literately never spend a penny and do everything they have to offer.
Path of Exile World of Tanks League of Legends many others.
Those games are Free-To-Play and you can pay for bonusxp, camo/skins ect.... but you are not required to pay anything to level right to the top.
By your definition World of Warcraft is free to play because you can level to 20 and play that starter toon forever. Hell, the WoW demo is closer to Free-To-Play than what they are offering here.
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Sir BloodArgon Aulmais
Maximus Corp The Volition Cult
1
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Posted - 2016.11.18 03:07:21 -
[6] - Quote
The old trial system, you couldn't influence the game. Whatever you did was erased within two weeks, essentially.
Under this new system, despite all its restrictions, you can in fact experience 90% of the game. You can mine, shoot, pve, pvp, wormhole, build, interact, market all to your hearts content. It may take a lot of time and a lot of extra effort but alpha accounts alone could make an impact on the market or a section of space. You could kick a corp out of their space with t1 fit vexors. You could inflate the price of an item if you had all your friends horde it.
This game doesn't work the way WoW or LoL do; for you to even bring those up as examples against this says a lot. (Go back to wow) "Buying power" essentially has been in the game forever. Before we had skill injectors we had the character bazzar. Your sub fee keeps the lights on, it keeps the servers running.
If everyone "played the entire game without spending a penny" then where would CCP get income? I don't want to look at intrusive advertisements every fking gate jump. With the scale of this game and its universe, it cant be free "just cuz". Not sure where you get this entitlement that "free to play" automatically means "I deserve everything everyone else previously paid for"
Its free to login, free to play. You want the full package? Pay the fee.
Or hey, theres this thing called Plex.
To keep this on topic, OP, the game is heading in a great direction. We started this journey a year or two ago, with an industry overhaul, and now citadels, our new homes in space. The next step is player owned stargates, and basically a 'brave new frontier' for us to create, explore, and conquer. With this destination of a ever expanding universe, you can amass a fortune, an empire of loyal fighters, or simply kick back in a quiet system producing weapons for the next great war. The choice is yours, and omega status gives you all the tools to do so. Be it by t1 vexor, or mighty t2 black ops battleships. |
Xodiac Primus
New Eden's Best.
12
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Posted - 2016.11.18 03:12:52 -
[7] - Quote
>>If everyone "played the entire game without spending a penny" then where would CCP get income?<<
How does any actual Free-To-Play game make money? |
Sir BloodArgon Aulmais
Maximus Corp The Volition Cult
1
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Posted - 2016.11.18 03:15:59 -
[8] - Quote
Xodiac Primus wrote:>>If everyone "played the entire game without spending a penny" then where would CCP get income?<<
How does any actual Free-To-Play game make money?
By compromising integrity. world of tanks has golden ammo, does it not? CCP got leaked just TALKING about golden ammo and the entire community **** itself. This and many other things is what separates Eve from all the other games. We don't want cheezy shortcuts to glory, we don't want advertisements and over the top vanity items. That's why its lasted 10 plus years, and now the flood gates are open to all to participate. I'm sorry but if you can't see the direction I'm coming from, maybe someone else will explain it better. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2007
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 03:21:56 -
[9] - Quote
Xodiac Primus wrote:Oh.. I see I didn't realize that I get regular access and do not have to pay for regular access.... wait... thats not what I got. Where did you get the free-to-play Omega? You seem to be confusing "to play" with "full access". We clearly have the former for free, just not the latter.
And since the community decided direct cash for advantage consumables were a no go aside from PLEX or training queues on top of skins not being renewable income there has to be some incentive to pay and keep the game funded. |
Xodiac Primus
New Eden's Best.
12
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Posted - 2016.11.18 03:26:12 -
[10] - Quote
Sir BloodArgon Aulmais wrote:Xodiac Primus wrote:>>If everyone "played the entire game without spending a penny" then where would CCP get income?<<
How does any actual Free-To-Play game make money? By compromising integrity. world of tanks has golden ammo, does it not? CCP got leaked just TALKING about golden ammo and the entire community **** itself. This and many other things is what separates Eve from all the other games. We don't want cheezy shortcuts to glory, we don't want advertisements and over the top vanity items. That's why its lasted 10 plus years, and now the flood gates are open to all to participate. I'm sorry but if you can't see the direction I'm coming from, maybe someone else will explain it better.
Guess what, "Gold ammo" can be purchased with regular in game coin so EVERYBODY can use gold ammo and it does not require real money to get.
I'm guessing when they talked about premium ammo it was going to cost you real money, and not just ISK. |
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2007
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Posted - 2016.11.18 03:31:35 -
[11] - Quote
Xodiac Primus wrote:Guess what, "Gold ammo" can be purchased with regular in game coin so EVERYBODY can use gold ammo and it does not require real money to get.
I'm guessing when they talked about premium ammo it was going to cost you real like money, and not just ISK. When did that change? Used to be HEAT (as well as some ACPR?) ammo had gold exclusive versions.
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1094
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Posted - 2016.11.18 03:56:49 -
[12] - Quote
It was stated by another poster. You can literally do everything in this game that is normal gameplay, just not extremely well, with the skills they have given you as an alpha account. Eve has had a steep learning curve and now you can learn at your own pace for as long as you wish, enjoy what you wish in the game just at a lower/slower level than others that pay. It removes ALL of the "I have to do this in 14-21 days!!!" to enjoy this game or I am forced to pay to play a game I dont get or havent gotten into yet because I know nothing yet.
Imagine being a 2-5 year old and being thrown to the wolves by your parents. This is historically what the trial amounted to. Tossing a toddler into a shark pool and expecting it to survive. Now you can grow and do and not worry about the fiscal costs, out of game of course, so you can enjoy it without getting to scarred for life.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Xodiac Primus
New Eden's Best.
12
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Posted - 2016.11.18 04:10:14 -
[13] - Quote
Changed a long long time ago. For the same reason, lot of people said it was Pay to Win so they made it so everybody can use everything with just normal currency. You still get 50% extra XP per match if you want to spend gold for premium time, but they give away gold so much now that's not an issue. I got enough gold sitting in my account for about 7 years of premium time and literately earned that much in about 4 months of clan wars/tournaments.
They still sell stuff for actual cash but mostly just tanks that are different but not really any better than anything else you can get.
Just as an example, they are coming out with three new Swiss lines of tanks next month... 3 lines with 10 tanks each and every Tom-****-Harry can get every last one for free by just putting in his time. That Sir is what I call Free-To-Play
At last count I think they have 270 in game tanks and you can get 235 +/- free , 20 +/- using gold / mission reward (which is easy to get) and about 15 at any given time that are for cash, but generally 6 months after they sell them for cash you can get them in game via missions/gold or as rewards. But none of those special tanks are OP vs. what everybody else can get.
Path of Exile literately has nothing you can buy for cash except vanity items.... period. Actual game content is 100% free and all weapons and gear come from drops
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Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
633
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Posted - 2016.11.18 04:16:23 -
[14] - Quote
Plenty of people play omega accounts for free via plex. Its F2P.
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
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Xodiac Primus
New Eden's Best.
12
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Posted - 2016.11.18 04:18:18 -
[15] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:It was stated by another poster. You can literally do everything in this game that is normal gameplay, just not extremely well, with the skills they have given you as an alpha account. Eve has had a steep learning curve and now you can learn at your own pace for as long as you wish, enjoy what you wish in the game just at a lower/slower level than others that pay. It removes ALL of the "I have to do this in 14-21 days!!!" to enjoy this game or I am forced to pay to play a game I dont get or havent gotten into yet because I know nothing yet. Imagine being a 2-5 year old and being thrown to the wolves by your parents. This is historically what the trial amounted to. Tossing a toddler into a shark pool and expecting it to survive. Now you can grow and do and not worry about the fiscal costs, out of game of course, so you can enjoy it without getting to scarred for life.
Single race mix of weapons so no mixing projectile/missle etc... .no missions above 2 and nothing heavier than a cruiser so you will never fight anything heavier than another cruiser if you mission run. Thats what... 2% of the ships you can use? Drones limited to just small and medium,no salvage, mining etc...
yah, you can do a fair bit, enough to categorize it as a DEMO.. not free-to-play.
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Sir BloodArgon Aulmais
Maximus Corp The Volition Cult
2
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Posted - 2016.11.18 04:23:27 -
[16] - Quote
Xodiac Primus wrote:Single race mix of weapons so no mixing projectile/missle etc... .no missions above 2 and nothing heavier than a cruiser so you will never fight anything heavier than another cruiser if you mission run. Thats what... 2% of the ships you can use? Drones limited to just small and medium,no salvage, mining etc...
yah, you can do a fair bit, enough to categorize it as a DEMO.. not free-to-play.
Here comes the classic scale of eve ships. Who says you HAVE to be in a BC or BS to be "good"? There has to be limits to prevent farming (missions) but there is literally so much content out there in terms of frigate, destroyer, and cruiser fights. Logistics, kiting, brawling, there are people that have played for years and still feel most comfortable in a dingy little frigate or t1 dessys with meta guns. I can fly capitals and black ops and t3s and all that crap but I still feel best when roaming in a brand new thorax fit I cooked up. Thats where Eve shines, and I think most people would agree. So with that best-element now being completely free instead of 2-week limited, is frickin huge. Sorry that you don't get that. |
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
469
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 04:33:39 -
[17] - Quote
You can, with some effort, farm a PLEX with your Alpha. Once you have that first PLEX, you should be able to make a PLEX every month. So yes, the game is F2P and just like any F2P game, it requires some effort in order to keep up with the paying customers. |
Xodiac Primus
New Eden's Best.
12
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 04:38:11 -
[18] - Quote
>>I can fly capitals and black ops and t3s and all that crap but I still feel best when roaming in a brand new thorax fit I cooked up.<<
I hope that sweet fit using nothing but T1 racial gear with skills you can train to level 3 and sometimes 4 because if your kitting that thing out with anything that costs more than 20k on the open market, you sir are NOT playing the free-to-play game.
It's a Demo man, pure and simple. I think you guys have been playing this game so long that you have not actually tried a legitimate free-to-play game to even know what that means.
North Korea is actually called "Democratic PeopleGÇÖs Republic of Korea" but calling it Democratic does not make it so.
Calling this Free-To-Play does not make it so either. I don't begrudge them making money, but if you going to call it free-to-play and crow about it all over the net, then you better have changed the biz model to reflect a source of income OTHER than pay-to-play the other 98% of the game. |
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
633
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 04:41:42 -
[19] - Quote
Maekchu wrote:You can, with some effort, farm a PLEX with your Alpha. Once you have that first PLEX, you should be able to make a PLEX every month. So yes, the game is F2P and just like any F2P game, it requires some effort in order to keep up with the paying customers. In one respect this never changed, it was possible to chain together trials before, sending the proceeds from one grind to the next in line (or even plex within 21days in one full sweep)... once the first month was covered you could setup a more reliable income from thereon.
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
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Xodiac Primus
New Eden's Best.
12
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Posted - 2016.11.18 04:45:11 -
[20] - Quote
Perhaps it should be renamed "Free-To-Grind" That I would be OK with as its at least more accurate. |
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
470
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Posted - 2016.11.18 04:45:23 -
[21] - Quote
Xodiac Primus wrote:It's a Demo man, pure and simple. I think you guys have been playing this game so long that you have not actually tried a legitimate free-to-play game to even know what that means. I've played both LoL and PoE.
I think the problem here, is that you have not played EvE long enough to understand the possibilities the Alpha clones present. You just look at the ships and think "Oh, I cannot fly the biggest and most expensive ship out there, then I can't do ****". |
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
633
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 04:51:21 -
[22] - Quote
Xodiac Primus wrote:Perhaps it should be renamed "Free-To-Grind" That I would be OK with as its at least more accurate. Implying that other F2P titles dont make free players jump through similar hoops.
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
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Sir BloodArgon Aulmais
Maximus Corp The Volition Cult
2
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Posted - 2016.11.18 04:59:06 -
[23] - Quote
It's funny. An alpha player could train up for a week, join a nullsec alliance, stroll into battle, ninja some faction mods, make some friends, score some more fat loot, pay for plex all in the course of about two weeks. Then you get better ships to ninja that loot.
Thats the type of opportunities that have just been given out for free.
And this persons... "wahh, I can't use heavy drones" |
Xodiac Primus
New Eden's Best.
12
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Posted - 2016.11.18 05:16:34 -
[24] - Quote
Sir BloodArgon Aulmais wrote:It's funny. An alpha player could train up for a week, join a nullsec alliance, stroll into battle, ninja some faction mods, make some friends, score some more fat loot, pay for plex all in the course of about two weeks. Then you get better ships to ninja that loot.
Thats the type of opportunities that have just been given out for free.
And this persons... "wahh, I can't use heavy drones"
Is that what you think will happen with new players? This game has a pretty steep learning curve and I don't see any rookie getting in and running to nullsec to ninja-loot faction mods because before he finishes the starter missions/tutorial he will have long since hit the cap on all the skills and stopped seeing any progress.
You guys keep talking like all this stuff you can do is so damn obvious that people off the street will be on long enough to discover any of it. Stop thinking like people who have played this game for 10 years and pretend you started yesterday.
Clearly CCP has no idea how to capture new people...this game is awesome but if you want new blood to discover that, you have to give them a big phrapping crumb to compete with all the virtual plates of cheese other games offer and without having to grind to plex to do it.
Wake up man, this is NOT the only game out there and people will gravitate to those that are both easier to learn and offer more to do than this bread crumb they are dangling out there.
I came back because I saw the free-to-play and I about wet my panties... then I got here and.... meh. Same old same old with a new wrapper.
What this game has (had) that no other game out there has is that "Eve Atmosphere" but then they pull boners like replacing the voice with some terrible new one...and they will never go back no matter how many threads they have to lock. Its just the way they think. |
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
470
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 05:43:04 -
[25] - Quote
Xodiac Primus wrote:Is that what you think will happen with new players? This game has a pretty steep learning curve and I don't see any rookie getting in and running to nullsec to ninja-loot faction mods because before he finishes the starter missions/tutorial he will have long since hit the cap on all the skills and stopped seeing any progress. You don't really have much trust in the abilities of people. The cap is 5M, which is several months worth of training. If you think, it will take several months for a newbie to finish the tutorial alone, then you are gravely mistaken.
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Mark Marconi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
97
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 05:43:22 -
[26] - Quote
Xodiac Primus wrote:
What this game has (had) that no other game out there has is that "Eve Atmosphere" but then they pull boners like replacing the voice with some terrible new one...and they will never go back no matter how many threads they have to lock. Its just the way they think.
Would be nice if we could buy a new voice like the ship skins.
Yoda: "Active Your warp Drive is..."
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Vigirr
42
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Posted - 2016.11.18 07:16:51 -
[27] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Xodiac Primus wrote:Guess what, "Gold ammo" can be purchased with regular in game coin so EVERYBODY can use gold ammo and it does not require real money to get.
I'm guessing when they talked about premium ammo it was going to cost you real like money, and not just ISK. When did that change? Used to be HEAT (as well as some ACPR?) ammo had gold exclusive versions.
Years ago, been so long I can't even remember when it changed. Same for rations and large repair kits. However, it's not the same situation: not many people actually bought that ammo with gold and now that they can with credits it heavily affects profitability which can be solved by... running a premium account so if you want tot talk about bait and switch, there is it.
People all want to drive the big tier 10 tanks which just aren't profitable on a basic account unless you're quite good, which most people aren't. WOT was to be a f2p game from the outset, it was meant to be annoying without premium being super grindy and annoying because of it. EVE is not. It has been relying on a sub that hasn't really changed in 13 years which due to inflation means they get less and less. They should have upped the sub fee, not go f2p imo. |
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
19892
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 09:59:20 -
[28] - Quote
Wait for a few days or months, I think they will announce another event with bonus for Omega players. Then fanfest, with more Omega stuff.
You can hoard stuff infinitely.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò =ƒÜÇ
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Cutter Isaacson
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3081
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 10:38:59 -
[29] - Quote
I keep seeing people comparing the Alpha system to other free-to-play games. Those people are missing something I would have thought was blindingly obvious. Those other games are designed, built, and run from the ground up to be fully F2P. EVE is not. Stop comparing apples to warp core stabs, you look stupid.
"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
365
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 11:05:41 -
[30] - Quote
Xodiac Primus wrote:Sir BloodArgon Aulmais wrote:It's funny. An alpha player could train up for a week, join a nullsec alliance, stroll into battle, ninja some faction mods, make some friends, score some more fat loot, pay for plex all in the course of about two weeks. Then you get better ships to ninja that loot.
Thats the type of opportunities that have just been given out for free.
And this persons... "wahh, I can't use heavy drones" Is that what you think will happen with new players? This game has a pretty steep learning curve and I don't see any rookie getting in and running to nullsec to ninja-loot faction mods because before he finishes the starter missions/tutorial he will have long since hit the cap on all the skills and stopped seeing any progress. You guys keep talking like all this stuff you can do is so damn obvious that people off the street will be on long enough to discover any of it. Stop thinking like people who have played this game for 10 years and pretend you started yesterday. Clearly CCP has no idea how to capture new people...this game is awesome but if you want new blood to discover that, you have to give them a big phrapping crumb to compete with all the virtual plates of cheese other games offer and without having to grind to plex to do it. Wake up man, this is NOT the only game out there and people will gravitate to those that are both easier to learn and offer more to do than this bread crumb they are dangling out there. I came back because I saw the free-to-play and I about wet my panties... then I got here and.... meh. Same old same old with a new wrapper. What this game has (had) that no other game out there has is that "Eve Atmosphere" but then they pull boners like replacing the voice with some terrible new one...and they will never go back no matter how many threads they have to lock. Its just the way they think.
well to be clear on your whole CCP has no idea how to capture new people, at a eve meeting when they introduced the jump tunnel graphics they did state "we are a point where we can lose players" followed by some time later "how do we get players to stay"
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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