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Lilith deMorta
Akimamur Industries
1
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Posted - 2016.11.18 04:01:12 -
[1] - Quote
One of the few things I have enjoyed over the years of playing Eve is mining. I know it sounds weird but I always have other things going on in the background that keep me busy in RL. I have run two account now for the better part of 6 years. One Orca pilot one Hulk pilot I have survived more gank attempts than I can remember, Now I am faced with the fact that CCP has nerfed the hulk and mining as a whole once again.
How did they nerf it? Well lets see they took one high slot away from the hulk which dropped its mining speed by about 30% even with t2 drones out. That is with full boosts and max skills.
Second Nerf: boost themselves they now cost between 4k to 8k each. And the best part is it cycles twice per one cycle of the strip miners.
So I am losing more money now in a field that does not make near as much as pretty much any other type of play. And before you say that it is "safe' play. Look at the kill broads. Mining ships make most of all the kills in the Eve universe.
Cya laters everyone it has been nice flying with you. |
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
438
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Posted - 2016.11.18 04:06:45 -
[2] - Quote
No, they buffed it. The cycle time bonus means it behaves like 3 stripminers (even down to crystal wear!), and the third low means you can get a little more yield than you used to.
But I haven't mined in months, so what do I know?
A signature :o
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2646
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Posted - 2016.11.18 04:07:58 -
[3] - Quote
Lilith deMorta wrote:One of the few things I have enjoyed over the years of playing Eve is mining. I know it sounds weird but I always have other things going on in the background that keep me busy in RL. I have run two account now for the better part of 6 years. One Orca pilot one Hulk pilot I have survived more gank attempts than I can remember, Now I am faced with the fact that CCP has nerfed the hulk and mining as a whole once again.
How did they nerf it? Well lets see they took one high slot away from the hulk which dropped its mining speed by about 30% even with t2 drones out. That is with full boosts and max skills.
Second Nerf: boost themselves they now cost between 4k to 8k each. And the best part is it cycles twice per one cycle of the strip miners.
So I am losing more money now in a field that does not make near as much as pretty much any other type of play. And before you say that it is "safe' play. Look at the kill broads. Mining ships make most of all the kills in the Eve universe.
Cya laters everyone it has been nice flying with you.
Virtually 100% of this is erroneous in some way or another. You should probably stop crying and actually do the math.
PS: Those boost charges cost something like a few hundred isk each to make. They're expensive because they're brand new and impatient idiots will cheerfully pay 1000% markups.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1094
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Posted - 2016.11.18 04:10:44 -
[4] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Lilith deMorta wrote:One of the few things I have enjoyed over the years of playing Eve is mining. I know it sounds weird but I always have other things going on in the background that keep me busy in RL. I have run two account now for the better part of 6 years. One Orca pilot one Hulk pilot I have survived more gank attempts than I can remember, Now I am faced with the fact that CCP has nerfed the hulk and mining as a whole once again.
How did they nerf it? Well lets see they took one high slot away from the hulk which dropped its mining speed by about 30% even with t2 drones out. That is with full boosts and max skills.
Second Nerf: boost themselves they now cost between 4k to 8k each. And the best part is it cycles twice per one cycle of the strip miners.
So I am losing more money now in a field that does not make near as much as pretty much any other type of play. And before you say that it is "safe' play. Look at the kill broads. Mining ships make most of all the kills in the Eve universe.
Cya laters everyone it has been nice flying with you. Virtually 100% of this is erroneous in some way or another. You should probably stop crying and actually do the math. PS: Those boost charges cost something like a few hundred isk each to make. They're expensive because they're brand new and impatient idiots will cheerfully pay 1000% markups. What he said lol!!!
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Lilith deMorta
Akimamur Industries
1
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Posted - 2016.11.18 04:22:27 -
[5] - Quote
Before 8k m3 per two cycles now less than 6k m3 same time for cycles. Before if I had mining drones out I had to dump after first cycles because I was mining close to 5k m3 on one cycle timer. How is this a buff? |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1064
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Posted - 2016.11.18 04:40:21 -
[6] - Quote
The Cycle time is definitely shorter. Don't forget the 25% role bonus.
Hm, not a Miner, so I may be missing something. And I'm bad at math, so I may be completely wrong here. But shouldn't it gobble up about 3.5 strip miners worth of ore with the current stats? Is that really less than it had before? |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2646
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Posted - 2016.11.18 04:46:52 -
[7] - Quote
Lilith deMorta wrote:Before 8k m3 per two cycles now less than 6k m3 same time for cycles. Before if I had mining drones out I had to dump after first cycles because I was mining close to 5k m3 on one cycle timer. How is this a buff?
Pssst. They made the cycle time shorter, so maybe you should stop measuring things in utterly meaningless units such as "cycles" and try using an actual fixed frame of reference instead?
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Jennifer Starblaze
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.11.18 10:16:45 -
[8] - Quote
On top of it you also forget that instead of just having 1 hulk mining while you are sitting next to your orca, your orca also can now mine a quite significant amount of ore. (1400 m-¦ / minute according to ccp).
Especially with a 2 account setup like you described that is a huge buff. Your Orca also did get a lot harder to gank and did get a larger ore hold.
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1437
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Posted - 2016.11.18 11:09:36 -
[9] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Lilith deMorta wrote:Before 8k m3 per two cycles now less than 6k m3 same time for cycles. Before if I had mining drones out I had to dump after first cycles because I was mining close to 5k m3 on one cycle timer. How is this a buff? Pssst. They made the cycle time shorter, so maybe you should stop measuring things in utterly meaningless units such as "cycles" and try using an actual fixed frame of reference instead?
Wait, you mean like m3/second? That sort of reference where the number is higher than it used to be?
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1095
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Posted - 2016.11.18 11:13:36 -
[10] - Quote
Jennifer Starblaze wrote:On top of it you also forget that instead of just having 1 hulk mining while you are sitting next to your orca, your orca also can now mine a quite significant amount of ore. (1400 m-¦ / minute according to ccp).
Especially with a 2 account setup like you described that is a huge buff. Your Orca also did get a lot harder to gank and did get a larger ore hold.
Any "nerf" you speak of is basically fully negated by this buff alone.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Antheria
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
20
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Posted - 2016.11.18 12:47:55 -
[11] - Quote
Pretty much a knee jerk reaction based on bad assumptions.
If you read the information properly & use your ships wisely, you'll actually be at least 20% better off overall. |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
577
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Posted - 2016.11.18 13:13:27 -
[12] - Quote
If you're trying to semi-afk mine in the background while getting work done you should consider something other than a hulk which requires so much attention.
Good news is that the Orca ore hold is much bigger so you won't have to haul so often. Bad news is between super mining Rorqual's and alpha miners ore values may decline.
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Abadayos
Yulai RnD
20
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Posted - 2016.11.18 13:38:31 -
[13] - Quote
Previously with a hulk, before the current patch (but after the change to mining lasers going from 3 to 2) my hulks where getting teh following (roughly) with max Rorqual boosts:
59.2 second cycle 3,700m3 ore/cycle
So lets assume 3.7k/cycle/minute.
Now with new changes to boosts, using a Rorq with onl T1 industrial core:
48.2 second cycle time 3,280 m3/cycle
Oh my god! Less per cycle!...But no, your cycle time is less and thus your yield is less PER CYCLE...but more PER MINUTE compared to your old.
Here let me break it down for you:
Old amount per second:
3,700 / 60 = 61.6666... Rounding up to 62 to make it easy for myself 3,720m3 / minute
New amount: 3,280 / 48.2 = 68.049... Rounding down to 68
68 * 60 = 4,080m3/minute
Now to find the difference:
4,080 - 3,720 = 360 m3
That's an increase of around 9% (too lazy to do that part of the math) Using just a T1 industrial core, the bonus on top of the old system.
Disclaimer: numbers are rough, from memory and it's late here, so expect some variance but the result is the samem you gained not lost |
Xayder
Infinitum Cartel Stella Nova
365
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Posted - 2016.11.18 13:46:37 -
[14] - Quote
Lilith deMorta wrote:One of the few things I have enjoyed over the years of playing Eve is mining.
I don't always post, But when i post I do it with my main
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Siigari Kitawa
Waking Dreams
430
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Posted - 2016.11.18 15:59:52 -
[15] - Quote
Abadayos wrote:) with max Rorqual boosts:
Yeah. But now your Rorqual must be on grid with you, so is the 9% (with only tech 1) yield boost to a Hulk worth it?
My guess is the Porpoise is going to be the miner's friend in most high-end ore situations (Orca's still in highsec likely.)
Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it.
Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else.
Ingame channel: PUSHX
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TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1791
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Posted - 2016.11.18 16:09:52 -
[16] - Quote
Lilith deMorta wrote:One of the few things I have enjoyed over the years of playing Eve is mining. I know it sounds weird but I always have other things going on in the background that keep me busy in RL. I have run two account now for the better part of 6 years. One Orca pilot one Hulk pilot I have survived more gank attempts than I can remember, Now I am faced with the fact that CCP has nerfed the hulk and mining as a whole once again.
How did they nerf it? Well lets see they took one high slot away from the hulk which dropped its mining speed by about 30% even with t2 drones out. That is with full boosts and max skills.
Second Nerf: boost themselves they now cost between 4k to 8k each. And the best part is it cycles twice per one cycle of the strip miners.
So I am losing more money now in a field that does not make near as much as pretty much any other type of play. And before you say that it is "safe' play. Look at the kill broads. Mining ships make most of all the kills in the Eve universe.
Cya laters everyone it has been nice flying with you.
None of this makes any f*cking sense. Learn to play and maybe more importantly, learn to interpret numbers.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
460
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Posted - 2016.11.18 16:37:57 -
[17] - Quote
I obtained a Porpoise to add to my fleet. I haven't tried it out yet - charge BP's are still cooking, but I may buy a few pre-made just for testing.
I'll make sure to hit that Clean Ship button before I set out.
--Gadget - polishing the Porpoise
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18417
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Posted - 2016.11.18 16:46:18 -
[18] - Quote
The only thing reduced is the tanking ability, miners seem to overlook this though. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14925
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Posted - 2016.11.18 16:47:50 -
[19] - Quote
Jennifer Starblaze wrote:On top of it you also forget that instead of just having 1 hulk mining while you are sitting next to your orca, your orca also can now mine a quite significant amount of ore. (1400 m-¦ / minute according to ccp).
Especially with a 2 account setup like you described that is a huge buff. Your Orca also did get a lot harder to gank and did get a larger ore hold.
This post exactly explains the OP's problem.
People develop habits. It's natural, but it's also a pretty stupid thing to do in a game that changes every few months. In this case, the OP got used to doing things one way, things changes and the OP didn't (not realizing all the amazing advantages the changes meant), and runs to the forum to complain, just to be told how badly he/she is doing it.
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Jagd Wilde
The Scope Gallente Federation
75
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Posted - 2016.11.18 17:08:31 -
[20] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:
--Gadget - polishing the Porpoise
This makes me warm in all the right places.
every alt I own has a red safety
this has brought my friends much laughter
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
473
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Posted - 2016.11.18 17:13:14 -
[21] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: ... and runs to the forum to complain, just to be told how badly he/she is doing it. But Jenn, you know this is the only option. Everything else would require too much effort :D
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nugina
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.11.18 17:36:48 -
[22] - Quote
Lilith deMorta wrote: Second Nerf: boost themselves they now cost between 4k to 8k each. And the best part is it cycles twice per one cycle of the strip miners.
It is possible to set the command burst so that it doesn't auto repeat - then you manually activate the module every 120 seconds just as the boost is about to expire. Sure it's a bit more work, but that is the whole point of the update - give boosters something to do.
It's early days but running a maxed boost orca and couple of maxed hulks seems to give about 20% increase in yield compared to my old way of working. There are lots of interdependent factors...
> reduced orca hauling trips (approx double hold capacity overall) > increased orca drone mining > hulk changes
The fleet is now a little more complex to manage - but the increased return is definitely worth it.
I don't have real numbers as I haven't gone in to that level of detail - just rough comparisons of what I could mine in an hour pre and post updates.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2007
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Posted - 2016.11.18 19:21:40 -
[23] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:The only thing reduced is the tanking ability, miners seem to overlook this though. Tanking ability is pretty much the same, possibly slightly better if you're referring to the recent change that normalized 2 strips for every barge. The only way it's worse is if you try using that extra low for yield on the Hulk, but then again if you don't you did actually get a yield nerf. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18417
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 20:14:07 -
[24] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:baltec1 wrote:The only thing reduced is the tanking ability, miners seem to overlook this though. Tanking ability is pretty much the same, possibly slightly better if you're referring to the recent change that normalized 2 strips for every barge. The only way it's worse is if you try using that extra low for yield on the Hulk, but then again if you don't you did actually get a yield nerf.
They reduced CPU/powergrid room. Lots of people ignore the drawback on the mining upgrades so think they have a lot more room than they actually have. New hulk needs a fitting mod/rig to use its mids. |
Matthias Ancaladron
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2016.11.18 20:30:08 -
[25] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:If you're trying to semi-afk mine in the background while getting work done you should consider something other than a hulk which requires so much attention.
Good news is that the Orca ore hold is much bigger so you won't have to haul so often. Bad news is between super mining Rorqual's and alpha miners ore values may decline.
Alphas are limited to a sub par fit venture that takes like... what 11-12 minutes to fill maxed out. Usually around 15ish+ on what I actually had trained on this new guy.
No alpha is gonna compete with any hulk or orca in the game and lol at alphas having any effect on the ore market whatsoever. Took me like an hour to do one jetcan worth of rich plagioclase with a venture and made 300 compressed blocks I go to the market and first number I see is like 12500 compressed blocks and 20000 under that for sell orders and then buy orders are up to 100k at 6150 a block. I sold my measly 300 for 7700 there later that night. Cause the big orders were selling for 8800-9000 a piece
I have no impact on anything lol |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2007
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Posted - 2016.11.18 20:33:07 -
[26] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:baltec1 wrote:The only thing reduced is the tanking ability, miners seem to overlook this though. Tanking ability is pretty much the same, possibly slightly better if you're referring to the recent change that normalized 2 strips for every barge. The only way it's worse is if you try using that extra low for yield on the Hulk, but then again if you don't you did actually get a yield nerf. They reduced CPU/powergrid room. Lots of people ignore the drawback on the mining upgrades so think they have a lot more room than they actually have. New hulk needs a fitting mod/rig to use its mids. That reasoning is a bit backwards, they reduced the CPU by less than a single, 0 MLU strip miner. So basically you lost a mod using 60+ TF, but only lost 50TF (40TF base + skills) fitting room. That means if you left the lowslot alone you had the same tank, less yield per the nerf, an additional ~10+ TF leftover CPU and an empty lowslot. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
13137
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Posted - 2016.11.18 20:48:47 -
[27] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:I obtained a Porpoise to add to my fleet. I haven't tried it out yet
So what's it's Porpoise?
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
461
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Posted - 2016.11.18 21:00:21 -
[28] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:I obtained a Porpoise to add to my fleet. I haven't tried it out yet So what's it's Porpoise?
Why, to explode, of course.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18417
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Posted - 2016.11.18 21:01:47 -
[29] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:baltec1 wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:baltec1 wrote:The only thing reduced is the tanking ability, miners seem to overlook this though. Tanking ability is pretty much the same, possibly slightly better if you're referring to the recent change that normalized 2 strips for every barge. The only way it's worse is if you try using that extra low for yield on the Hulk, but then again if you don't you did actually get a yield nerf. They reduced CPU/powergrid room. Lots of people ignore the drawback on the mining upgrades so think they have a lot more room than they actually have. New hulk needs a fitting mod/rig to use its mids. That reasoning is a bit backwards, they reduced the CPU by less than a single, 0 MLU strip miner. So basically you lost a mod using 60+ TF, but only lost 50TF (40TF base + skills) fitting room. That means if you left the lowslot alone you had the same tank, less yield per the nerf, an additional ~10+ TF leftover CPU over prior and an empty lowslot.
Well used to be you could fit a 34k tank while sporting an MLU and rockscanner. Todays Hulk has issues, granted not nearly as bad as the covetor. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2007
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Posted - 2016.11.18 21:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Well used to be you could fit a 34k tank while sporting an MLU and rockscanner. Todays Hulk has issues, granted not nearly as bad as the covetor. What was the fit? Also did that include links? Even ignoring CPU, with 1 low, 3 mids and both rigs I'm not able to pull a 34k omni tank, but that could just be me doing it wrong.
I an using T2 at best so if you're going faction that could be it as well. |
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