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FQPW
Goshawk Mining Ltd
0
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Posted - 2016.11.18 11:13:49 -
[1] - Quote
As a alpha clone player trying out EVE Online I seriously find that people like me that really enjoy mining are being left out. Combat players have a variety of frigates, destroyers and cruisers. Miners only get a Venture... At least give Alpha Clones access to Mining Barges. And I am not even talking about the skills for mining and industry which I could count on 2 hands. Compared to combat skills which are a lot it is just ridiculous.
Please improve the mining capabilities for Alpha Cloners. |
Keno Skir
943
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Posted - 2016.11.18 11:32:10 -
[2] - Quote
Combat is LOADS more complicated than mining. If you could use a barge would you ever sub? I doubt it for the extra few % the better lasers will get you..
It's not like there are 10 different "kinds" of mining someone might want to have a go at, like there is with combat. A combat orientated char might want to do missions, PvP, exploration, incursions or sleeper sites to name a few, all of which require different styles of fitting and different hulls. Mining is literally just pointing a mining beam at a rock and waiting, ergo you can experience the vast majority of it from a venture.
If you want to make money from mining as an Alpha take your Venture to a wormhole, it is not as bad as you think it is ;)
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Sitting Bull Lakota
SBL Co
221
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Posted - 2016.11.18 11:55:18 -
[3] - Quote
I agree. Alphas can't log in simultaneously under threat of Permaband so they can't feasibly crash the value of materials. The real question is: which skills should be decreased so that alphas can fly barges? That 5m sp cap is the big thing here.
I feel like the game wouldn't suffer terribly from alphas having access tech II guns, mining barges, ships through battleship, and maybe some select tech II frigates like assault frigates and interceptors.
Personally, I'd like to up the skill cap to 10m, and give alphas a bigger bite of EvE. This would require increasing the sp threshold for extractors to 10m as well.
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FQPW
Goshawk Mining Ltd
0
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Posted - 2016.11.18 12:07:59 -
[4] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:Combat is LOADS more complicated than mining. If you could use a barge would you ever sub? I doubt it for the extra few % the better lasers will get you..
It's not like there are 10 different "kinds" of mining someone might want to have a go at, like there is with combat. A combat orientated char might want to do missions, PvP, exploration, incursions or sleeper sites to name a few, all of which require different styles of fitting and different hulls. Mining is literally just pointing a mining beam at a rock and waiting, ergo you can experience the vast majority of it from a venture.
If you want to make money from mining as an Alpha take your Venture to a wormhole, it is not as bad as you think it is ;)
Of course I would sub if I see potential in mining & industry. But you clearly don't see the point I am trying to make. Now it's just annoying since doing missions give 10x profit plus standing. Plus the venture is full within a few minutes. And yeah combat pilots have more options but that just shows that its more fun to play as a combat pilot instead of trying to get more people to mine and go into the industry path of the game. Like I said you only have a venture and most industrial and trade skills are locked out. New players can even explores these things to a medium level. Where combat pilots can do a shitload like you mentioned plus have a lot of combat related skills.
Basically an Alpha Clone looks like its made for 80% combat players and 20% industry (if not less...) players. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1064
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Posted - 2016.11.18 12:32:24 -
[5] - Quote
You think it will be any more fun to do the same with a Retriever with the difference that you push buttons less often?
I also wonder if it's true that you can make 10x what a venture can with missions, considering alphas can only fly T1 fit cruisers. They will likely not be able to run Level 3 missions efficiently, and with level 2s It will be difficult for most to reach 5M/h. |
FQPW
Goshawk Mining Ltd
0
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Posted - 2016.11.18 12:34:58 -
[6] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:You think it will be any more fun to do the same with a Retriever with the difference that you push buttons less often?
I also wonder if it's true that you can make 10x what a venture can with missions, considering alphas can only fly T1 fit cruisers. They will likely not be able to run Level 3 missions efficiently, and with level 2s It will be difficult for most to reach 5M/h.
L3's are pretty easy in a fully outfitted Gnosis with T1's
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1064
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Posted - 2016.11.18 12:43:07 -
[7] - Quote
ah, right, they have the gnosis. That kind of breaks alpha limitations a bit. |
Swoop McFly
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
59
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Posted - 2016.11.18 12:46:03 -
[8] - Quote
Mining in a venture is the exact same thing as mining in a barge: you sit next to a rock and watch the lasers fill up your ore hold.
The numbers you will be seeing with a barge are slightly higher but not to the point where you would get rich from it. Mining is one of the lowest paying "jobs" in Eve.
The restrictions regarding combat with alpha accounts are also pretty severe. Mining isn't really any more limited than combat - it's just that combat in Eve is a lot deeper (and better paying) than mining.
People mine for profit because it is an activity that requires little to no interaction and thus can easily be scaled up to multiple accounts - which requires omega anyway.
The manufacturing side is severely restricted to prevent people from abusing the system by making hundreds of accounts for manufacturing. It's passive ISK and thus could be easily scaled up without having to login multiple accounts at once. Alphas can't do planetary interaction for the same reason. |
Memphis Baas
2276
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Posted - 2016.11.18 12:48:17 -
[9] - Quote
It's not going to make you feel any better, but the whole game is 80% PVP and 20% mining/industry/PVE.
CCP is adding ships, balancing ships for PVP, and changing the combat mechanics almost every expansion. As far as mining, this expansion is focused on mining, with the Rorqual and other mining ship changes. Be prepared to wait another 5-10 years, like we have up till now, for more mining changes once this expansion is done.
In tune with that, CCP clearly intends to introduce newbies who try the Alpha program to combat and PVP, because that's what the game is focused on. And, as mentioned above, free mining barges would affect the economy greatly, so even the Omegas are against it.
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Bagatur I
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
86
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Posted - 2016.11.18 13:35:39 -
[10] - Quote
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:I agree. Alphas can't log in simultaneously under threat of Permaband so they can't feasibly crash the value of materials. The real question is: which skills should be decreased so that alphas can fly barges? That 5m sp cap is the big thing here.
where do you get this SP can bs? alphas can freely train within the skillset available to alphas. that is it. |
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FQPW
Goshawk Mining Ltd
0
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Posted - 2016.11.18 13:47:09 -
[11] - Quote
Bagatur I wrote:Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:I agree. Alphas can't log in simultaneously under threat of Permaband so they can't feasibly crash the value of materials. The real question is: which skills should be decreased so that alphas can fly barges? That 5m sp cap is the big thing here. where do you get this SP can bs? alphas can freely train within the skillset available to alphas. that is it.
Training all skills available to Alpha Clones caps you at 5m...
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Cara Forelli
Better Off Red Unspoken Alliance.
2116
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Posted - 2016.11.18 14:29:44 -
[12] - Quote
Eve is not free to play. Eve is free to try.
Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Baldy McNoHair
State War Academy Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2016.11.18 14:44:01 -
[13] - Quote
FQPW wrote:Please improve the free botting capabilities for Alpha Cloners.
nope.
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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
1169
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Posted - 2016.11.18 15:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:I agree. Alphas can't log in simultaneously under threat of Permaband so they can't feasibly crash the value of materials. The real question is: which skills should be decreased so that alphas can fly barges? That 5m sp cap is the big thing here.
Alphas can't log in simultaneously not because of threat of permaban, they can't log in simultaneously because the client won't let them.
Mining initially provides significantly better income than missioning. You'll definitely make more isk in your venture than you'll make doing level 1 or two missions, just as an example. Using the gnosis to do level 3s, that's a little more in the air, but from what I've experienced so far, especially mixing it up with some production, a miner should be making pretty good income.
Definitely enough income to pay for the frigates, destroyers, and cruisers to fly pvp in.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Keno Skir
943
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Posted - 2016.11.18 15:48:34 -
[15] - Quote
Bagatur I wrote:Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:I agree. Alphas can't log in simultaneously under threat of Permaband so they can't feasibly crash the value of materials. The real question is: which skills should be decreased so that alphas can fly barges? That 5m sp cap is the big thing here. where do you get this SP can bs? alphas can freely train within the skillset available to alphas. that is it.
Wut? It's been regularly mentioned on forums and dev publications that the chosen skills for each race add up to a 5 Mil SP cap (approx). That's where everyone's getting this "BS" from.... ...
Gùï> 30 Day Buddy Trial + ISK Bonus & Starting Assistance <Gùï
Feel free to contact me regarding my posts, or my 30 Day EvE Buddy Trials \o/
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Ocean Ormand
Bagel and Lox
38
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Posted - 2016.11.18 15:49:13 -
[16] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:ah, right, they have the gnosis. That kind of breaks alpha limitations a bit.
I thought they were limited to cruiser hulls and below. A gnosis is a bc. |
Keno Skir
943
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Posted - 2016.11.18 15:49:49 -
[17] - Quote
FQPW wrote:its more fun to play as a combat pilot instead of trying to get more people to mine and go into the industry path
Hit the nail on the head there didn't ya?
Gùï> 30 Day Buddy Trial + ISK Bonus & Starting Assistance <Gùï
Feel free to contact me regarding my posts, or my 30 Day EvE Buddy Trials \o/
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Keno Skir
943
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Posted - 2016.11.18 15:50:43 -
[18] - Quote
Ocean Ormand wrote:Neuntausend wrote:ah, right, they have the gnosis. That kind of breaks alpha limitations a bit. I thought they were limited to cruiser hulls and below. A gnosis is a bc.
Yeah it's because the Gnosis is really designed to help out new players, with it's 4-way fitting bonus etc.
Gùï> 30 Day Buddy Trial + ISK Bonus & Starting Assistance <Gùï
Feel free to contact me regarding my posts, or my 30 Day EvE Buddy Trials \o/
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1064
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Posted - 2016.11.18 16:38:54 -
[19] - Quote
Ocean Ormand wrote:Neuntausend wrote:ah, right, they have the gnosis. That kind of breaks alpha limitations a bit. I thought they were limited to cruiser hulls and below. A gnosis is a bc. It is, but it doesn't require the battlecruiser skill. In fact, it doesn't require any specific spcaeship command skills to fly beyond Spaceship Command I. Alphas are only limited through their skills, and since they don't need one for the Gnosis, they should be able to fly it. |
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
470
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Posted - 2016.11.18 17:06:22 -
[20] - Quote
If you want higher yields, then you should consider doing something else, than highsec mining with the Venture.
Maybe you should look into ninja gas huffing.
But as people have already stated, giving free access to barges would crash the mineral market and not give an incentive for highsec miners to ever sub. |
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Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY Domestic Disturbance
368
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Posted - 2016.11.18 17:56:23 -
[21] - Quote
FQPW wrote:Keno Skir wrote:Combat is LOADS more complicated than mining. If you could use a barge would you ever sub? I doubt it for the extra few % the better lasers will get you..
It's not like there are 10 different "kinds" of mining someone might want to have a go at, like there is with combat. A combat orientated char might want to do missions, PvP, exploration, incursions or sleeper sites to name a few, all of which require different styles of fitting and different hulls. Mining is literally just pointing a mining beam at a rock and waiting, ergo you can experience the vast majority of it from a venture.
If you want to make money from mining as an Alpha take your Venture to a wormhole, it is not as bad as you think it is ;) Of course I would sub if I see potential in mining & industry. But you clearly don't see the point I am trying to make. Now it's just annoying since doing missions give 10x profit plus standing. Plus the venture is full within a few minutes. And yeah combat pilots have more options but that just shows that its more fun to play as a combat pilot instead of trying to get more people to mine and go into the industry path of the game. Like I said you only have a venture and most industrial and trade skills are locked out. New players can even explores these things to a medium level. Where combat pilots can do a shitload like you mentioned plus have a lot of combat related skills. Basically an Alpha Clone looks like its made for 80% combat players and 20% industry (if not less...) players.
Ventures are still going to take around 15 minutes to get a full ore hold, which is not that different from mining barges.
And of course missions are going to give 10x the profits(a bit exaggerating here but okay) and standings, because you cant warp to a mission site, activate your weapons and go afk.
And you are still completely wrong. Ventures provide the perfect ships to enter wormholes to gas mine in, which is medium level gameplay.
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1064
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Posted - 2016.11.18 18:09:44 -
[22] - Quote
Maekchu wrote:Maybe you should look into ninja gas huffing. I don't think Alphas get the Gas Huffing skill, but I might be mistaken there. |
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
473
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Posted - 2016.11.18 18:30:16 -
[23] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Maekchu wrote:Maybe you should look into ninja gas huffing. I don't think Alphas get the Gas Huffing skill, but I might be mistaken there. Checked. They can use the Gas Cloud Harvester I.
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
757
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Posted - 2016.11.18 18:44:56 -
[24] - Quote
I think the hint here is to not let yourself be a one-trick-pony. Try running some Combat Anoms in between some mining sessions or look for relic sites, etc. Eve Online is huge!
So if you decide you do want to take all your mining skills to level V, then subscribe.
@lunettelulu7
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5986
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Posted - 2016.11.18 18:52:25 -
[25] - Quote
FQPW wrote:Please improve the mining capabilities for Alpha Cloners.
How much better do you think mining barges are? As your skills improve, the gap between mining income and other forms of income grows wider.
You can drastically improve your mining efficiency by finding people to work with in a fleet. There's no need to upgrade to barges to make the Alpha clone experience more enjoyable.
If you're after a higher income, consider speculative hauling, distribution missions or security missions.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
18198
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Posted - 2016.11.18 22:04:52 -
[26] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:FQPW wrote:Please improve the mining capabilities for Alpha Cloners. How much better do you think mining barges are? As your skills improve, the gap between mining income and other forms of income grows wider...
That was true 4 days ago. Now not so much.
"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."
Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
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Matthias Ancaladron
Hedion University Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2016.11.19 02:05:20 -
[27] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:Bagatur I wrote:Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:I agree. Alphas can't log in simultaneously under threat of Permaband so they can't feasibly crash the value of materials. The real question is: which skills should be decreased so that alphas can fly barges? That 5m sp cap is the big thing here. where do you get this SP can bs? alphas can freely train within the skillset available to alphas. that is it. Wut? It's been regularly mentioned on forums and dev publications that the chosen skills for each race add up to a 5 Mil SP cap (approx). That's where everyone's getting this "BS" from.... ... There's no actual cap on sp. The skills are capped and once you have trained each one to what an alpha allows it roughly equals 5m depending on which skill tree you get. Amarr has the fewest number of skill levels, then gallente Caldari and minmatar. There's a spreadsheet around here somewhere. Iirc it lists minmatar as 306-307 levels and amarr in the 290s. So in theory a fully trained min account would have more sp than an amarr account depending on how the levels are distributed maybe amarr has 1-2 fewer skills but they go to higher levels to equal it out. But there's no point where you 5m sp and it locks you down from training skills, the skills are predetermined and you can train only those skills.
A 5m sp cap is a misnomer assuming all of that is correct and I didn't misread something. Essentially the same thing just technically not a sp cap. A skill cap that also just happens to be around 5m sp |
Sitting Bull Lakota
SBL Co
226
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Posted - 2016.11.19 03:47:07 -
[28] - Quote
Technically, you're right. There isn't a hard 5,000,000sp and your queue shuts down kind of limit. They've been described as being skillable to "roughly 5 miion skillpoints" by CCP. Anytime someone suggests increasing alpha skills, I like to ask which skills should be lowered to accomodate the new increase while keeping the total at "roughly 5 million."
CCP will likely not allow Alphas to train above 5m sp for one big reason. You get three guesses and the first two don't count. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3106
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Posted - 2016.11.19 06:57:45 -
[29] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:FQPW wrote:Please improve the mining capabilities for Alpha Cloners. How much better do you think mining barges are? As your skills improve, the gap between mining income and other forms of income grows wider... That was true 4 days ago. Now not so much. Why? Mining is not an ISK faucet.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Stryffe Darkholm
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.11.19 08:37:21 -
[30] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Why? Mining is not an ISK faucet.
I'm not sure why you all keep asking him that. He's said he truly enjoys mining and industry, some people just do. My wife always enjoys the crafting side of games more than the combat. I agree with him here. if a player wants to specialize and make his way with industry and not combat, even as an Alpha clone he should be allowed to. To a point at least.
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