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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7973
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Posted - 2016.11.21 14:20:46 -
[31] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Consider the following example: -You are in a store that is offering free smaller, less packaged/perfect samples of their product. -You consume a sample, and enjoy it. -You buy the product at full price. -You ask if you can still have a free sample. -They respond, "no, because you bought the product". -Meanwhile you watch as other customers who have not paid ANYTHING yet continue to gorge themselves on the free samples. -But you cant.
What planet do you come from that this actually happens? What store would allow people to gorge themselves on free samples? None, not one. You get one per customer, in any normal store that isn't completely inept at business, and then it's buy, or get out the store. You really don't have the first clue how free sampling works, do you?
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Rayit
The Vomit Comets Villore Accords
3
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Posted - 2016.11.21 14:21:35 -
[32] - Quote
Pendra Tahyan wrote:There are tons of reasons why being able to log onto a Omega and an Alpha account at the same time would be a horrible thing and I would say game balance is the most important.
You wouldn't be able to do this if your Alpha and Omega characters were on the same account. You can do this as things stand. People are running their main account alongside a separate Alpha account.
Adding an Alpha character slot to Omega accounts seemed like a simple and tidy suggestion. If it's not so simple then we can all just stick to running multiple accounts. Just seems a lot of "admin" for what it's worth. |
Memphis Baas
2305
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Posted - 2016.11.21 14:29:22 -
[33] - Quote
Opposed to the suggestion of allowing Omega + Alpha, because:
- To quote Raph King-Griffin and others who have said this in other similar threads, "no free scouts for you". The "option" of a free scout becomes the "mandatory requirement" of a free scout, because it's a disadvantage to not have it. And scouting affects PVP activities in a major way. No free scouts. Make friends, or pay for it through your nose (subscription required).
- As a matter of fact, people who want to multi-box or play multiple Omega accounts at the same time, should pay MORE than the sum of the subscriptions. An extra fee for being able to log in multiple characters simultaneously. Call it "you want to be anti-social, pay a fee" fee. Small fee for 2 accounts, exponential fee for crazy setups of 8-16-32 people mining, all at the same time, all one guy. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7973
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Posted - 2016.11.21 14:31:18 -
[34] - Quote
Rayit wrote:Pendra Tahyan wrote:There are tons of reasons why being able to log onto a Omega and an Alpha account at the same time would be a horrible thing and I would say game balance is the most important. People are running their main account alongside a separate Alpha account.
And they're not meant to be. I've already seen two people doing this get banned, so if you think they can't detect it, think again.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Vortexo VonBrenner
Raumfahrer Spiff Rakett Piloot Anslutning
2538
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Posted - 2016.11.21 14:33:39 -
[35] - Quote
I, too, want a free scout / cyno guy / hauler / etc etc etc and don't care what effect that would have on the game as a whole and CCP staying in business so we can play it. FREE NAO!
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Memphis Baas
2305
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Posted - 2016.11.21 14:34:40 -
[36] - Quote
CCP should make the Launcher color all other accounts red when an Alpha account is logged in (becoming green). To make their rule more obvious. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3982
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Posted - 2016.11.21 14:43:13 -
[37] - Quote
7Genius wrote:As a paying customer for this game I think it is pretty disparaging that we can't have one Omega and one Alpha clone (an alt account) logged in simultaneously.
I figure since I am now one of the people supporting this game and have been for 9 years, I was very disappointed to learn that I can not have an alpha clone logged in at the same time as my Omega. Maybe you don't appreciate your paid customers support, maybe this hasn't come up as an issue for you yet but it's not exactly fair for those of us who pay for the game to not have access to at least on Alpha clone.
As far as I see it if I am paying for an Omega account I should still be able to access at least one Alpha, can you please respond to the community of paying players on this. If you want an alt scout for your main, you have to pay for it.
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Jennifer Starblaze
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2016.11.21 14:53:46 -
[38] - Quote
I think it is just find the way it is.
If you pay for an account you pay to remove the alpha limitations ans not to get a free account. Also CCP has to draw the line somewhere ans this is the possible solution.
After all of you include the ability to run an alpha account if you pay for an Omega account, you would habe to give wach player x free accounts for x accounts you pay. Well, you don't have to, but that certainly is something people would whine about next. After all it is hard to justify that you get a free account for one payed account, but not for the other one which would mean that your first would get the full benefits of a subscription while your second or account number x would not. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2677
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Posted - 2016.11.21 15:01:20 -
[39] - Quote
You should let this go, guy. It's not happening - no way, no how - and you have to be quite distantly divorced from any appreciable understanding of gameplay and Eve meta to think it's a good idea. Learn more, speak less.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
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Salvos Rhoska
1577
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Posted - 2016.11.21 15:03:21 -
[40] - Quote
Maybe its cos Im a stingy, honest and simple Finn.
But something chafes me about losing access to a free service, simply cos I paid.
In my mind, I should receive the benefits of that free service as well as the additional services I have paid for. It is free, afterall, and in this case costs CCP nothing.
Im not going to start a huge crusade about this but I think I have atleast outllined some considerations that to my mind indicate it would be beneficial both to CCP and to the player base, that each single Omega account can simultaneously fly a single Alpha account (as long as they are registered to the same email account).
There probably are some heinous ways to exploit this that EVEs famously creatiive and nefarious community will come up with, but at face value I dont see any atm. Plus since any Omega can field on Alpha, the status-quo remains the same between all Omega players. Its as much an advantage to any and all subbed players.
I am of the opinion including an Alpha account option with each Omega, will help incentivize subbing. It increases the value of an Omega sub, at no cost to CCP.
I think this is particularly important, considering EVE, as Alphas, has now essentially become F2P. Inorder to offset players simply remaining Alpha, or making more Alphas, hence giving no revenue to CCP -,Including an Alpha option per Omega, makes subbing much more attractive.
Also, especially for new players (and to some degree space rich old vets), being able to fly an Omega and an Alpha at the same time is a huge multiplier in terms of opportunity for engaging in AND creating content.
If I was today a brand new player in EVE, on an Alpha, considering my options I would be much much more likely to sub if I knew I could fly my main as Omega as well as flying an Alpha alongside it. It would mean I can fly my main, train it, and have a seoond Alpha to support it. Thats huge. And since free players are flying Alphas for free anyways, why not?
See what I mean?
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7977
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Posted - 2016.11.21 15:14:13 -
[41] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
But something chafes me about losing access to a free service, simply cos I paid.
You didn't lose access to a free service, you paid for a full one and got that instead. You don't get to have more on top of that without paying. Again, "more than one active toon" is on they paid menu only. And that includes training.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Natural CloneKiller
The Phoenix Rising Vendetta Mercenary Group
262
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Posted - 2016.11.21 15:15:59 -
[42] - Quote
7Genius wrote:As a paying customer for this game I think it is pretty disparaging that we can't have one Omega and one Alpha clone (an alt account) logged in simultaneously.
I figure since I am now one of the people supporting this game and have been for 9 years, I was very disappointed to learn that I can not have an alpha clone logged in at the same time as my Omega. Maybe you don't appreciate your paid customers support, maybe this hasn't come up as an issue for you yet but it's not exactly fair for those of us who pay for the game to not have access to at least on Alpha clone.
As far as I see it if I am paying for an Omega account I should still be able to access at least one Alpha, can you please respond to the community of paying players on this.
Utter rubbish. Why should anyone get a free scout toon. Well done ccp for not allowing people to abuse this system. The Alpha clone is there for new players. Not really existing ones who want to fiddle. |
Sameli Adelora
State War Academy Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2016.11.21 15:51:37 -
[43] - Quote
This thread has inspired me! I'm going to buy 10 more computers (hmmm since I have already bought one maybe they will let me uses the others for free) and play 10 alpha accounts and my paid account at the same time. That way I can gank myself. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2678
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Posted - 2016.11.21 16:05:29 -
[44] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
There probably are some heinous ways to exploit this that EVEs famously creatiive and nefarious community will come up with, but at face value I dont see any atm.
"I can't even see a way to exploit this," said the guy desperately arguing to be allowed to exploit it.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Salvos Rhoska
1577
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Posted - 2016.11.21 17:09:53 -
[45] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:
But something chafes me about losing access to a free service, simply cos I paid.
You didn't lose access to a free service, you paid for a full one and got that instead. You don't get to have more on top of that without paying. Again, "more than one active toon" is on they paid menu only. And that includes training.
You dont seem to understand the difference between so ething that costs something, and so ething that is free.
When I pay for an account, Im am actively contributing to the provider. When I pay nothing, I do not. contribute to the provider.
When I pay to upgrade my account to Omega, I do so for the benefits. I pay for that.
Whereas Alphas pay nothing.
It is irrational that I, as a paying customer, should not have access to the same free service as a nonpaying customer. I should get the same free elements they get in addition to what I am paying for. Why? Cos I am paying for the benefits. They arent. Since their status is free, why shouldnt I as a paying customer get those free elements too?
Ergo, each Omega account should be able to fly an Alpha account simultaneously. I PAID for my Omega status, and since Alphas are free, why shouldnt I have access to a congruent free Alpha too? They cost nothing. Why shouldnt an Alpha account option be included in my PAID Omega option?
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2683
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Posted - 2016.11.21 17:22:42 -
[46] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
It is irrational that I, as a paying customer, should not have access to the same free service as a nonpaying customer. I should get the same free elements they get in addition to what I am paying for.
Your entire position is contingent on the barefaced lie that you "lose access" to something when you subscribe. You still have access to Alpha accounts within the scope of their limitations.
One of the limitations of an Alpha account is that it cannot be used concurrently with any other account. You need only log out of your Omega and log into your Alpha.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Sameli Adelora
State War Academy Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2016.11.21 18:10:48 -
[47] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:
But something chafes me about losing access to a free service, simply cos I paid.
You didn't lose access to a free service, you paid for a full one and got that instead. You don't get to have more on top of that without paying. Again, "more than one active toon" is on they paid menu only. And that includes training. You dont seem to understand the difference between so ething that costs something, and so ething that is free. When I pay for an account, Im am actively contributing to the provider. When I pay nothing, I do not. contribute to the provider. When I pay to upgrade my account to Omega, I do so for the benefits. I pay for that. Whereas Alphas pay nothing. It is irrational that I, as a paying customer, should not have access to the same free service as a nonpaying customer. I should get the same free elements they get in addition to what I am paying for. Why? Cos I am paying for the benefits. They arent. Since their status is free, why shouldnt I as a paying customer get those free elements too? Ergo, each Omega account should be able to fly an Alpha account simultaneously. I PAID for my Omega status, and since Alphas are free, why shouldnt I have access to a congruent free Alpha too? They cost nothing. Why shouldnt an Alpha account option be included in my PAID Omega option?
You have access just the same as anyone else. I pay for four accounts (yes I'm stupid) and the other day I started an alpha just to see what the new player experience stuff was like. So you can have an alpha. People with only an alpha don't have access to all the stuff people with paid accounts get and they can't have two alphas on at the same time. Paying customers like you and me are not getting ripped off, we have the same access and the same restrictions on alpha accounts. |
Salvos Rhoska
1578
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Posted - 2016.11.21 18:11:16 -
[48] - Quote
Alphas are free. Omegas are not.
It makes rational sense that a paying Omega should be able to fly an Alpha, as free, just like everyone else, simultaneous with their paid account.
The Omega is paid. In no way is it rational that si ultaneously you should not have access to a free Alpha, like everyone else.
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Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY Domestic Disturbance
371
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Posted - 2016.11.21 18:12:02 -
[49] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:
But something chafes me about losing access to a free service, simply cos I paid.
You didn't lose access to a free service, you paid for a full one and got that instead. You don't get to have more on top of that without paying. Again, "more than one active toon" is on they paid menu only. And that includes training. You dont seem to understand the difference between so ething that costs something, and so ething that is free. When I pay for an account, Im am actively contributing to the provider. When I pay nothing, I do not. contribute to the provider. When I pay to upgrade my account to Omega, I do so for the benefits. I pay for that. Whereas Alphas pay nothing. It is irrational that I, as a paying customer, should not have access to the same free service as a nonpaying customer. I should get the same free elements they get in addition to what I am paying for. Why? Cos I am paying for the benefits. They arent. Since their status is free, why shouldnt I as a paying customer get those free elements too? Ergo, each Omega account should be able to fly an Alpha account simultaneously. I PAID for my Omega status, and since Alphas are free, why shouldnt I have access to a congruent free Alpha too? They cost nothing. Why shouldnt an Alpha account option be included in my PAID Omega option?
I dont understand.
You are free to make a new account and pay nothing.
CCP does not prevent you from doing this.
CCP does not give you a warning message saying "Sorry, we have already detected an omega account belonging to this address, therefore you will not be able to make a new account".
The only restriction here is that you cannot have two active clients, one free and one paid, running at the same time.
You are still free to log on to your Omega account, fiddle around, log out, and then log into your alpha account.
You PAID for your Omega status. You get to fly your Omega account without any restrictions.
You DID NOT PAY for your Alpha account. You have the same restrictions as every other alpha account member.
Were you complaining about trial accounts as well? Did you think you should have had the right to fly a trial account alongside your paid account? |
Salvos Rhoska
1578
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Posted - 2016.11.21 18:15:58 -
[50] - Quote
I paid for an Omega account.
Why then should I not have the capacity to fly a free Alpha simultaneously with it. Alphas cost nothing, and have paid nothing. They are free.
If I have paid, why can I not fly both at the sametime. Free players paid nothing. I paid. Wtf is your argument?
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2689
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Posted - 2016.11.21 18:35:40 -
[51] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:I paid for an Omega account.
Why then should I not have the capacity to fly a free Alpha simultaneously with it. Alphas cost nothing, and have paid nothing. They are free.
If I have paid, why can I not fly both at the sametime. Free players paid nothing. I paid. Wtf is your argument?
Paying for one account doesn't magically remove the limitations of another, completely separate account.
It is the ALPHA account that cannot be logged in concurrently. You did not pay for *that* account. You paid for a different account, and your paying for a different account has absolutely no bearing on the limitations applied to a completely separate account. This is all really quite simple.
Alpha accounts also can't train beyond certain skills. Paying for an omega account does not lift this restriction as it applies to a separate Alpha account.
Alpha accounts train at half the speed of an Omega account. Paying for an Omega account does not lift this restriction as it applies to a separate Alpha account.
Alpha accounts have a 24hr queue. Paying for an Omega account does not lift this restriction as it applies to a separate Alpha account.
Alpha accounts cannot be logged in concurrently with any other account. Paying for an Omega account does not lift this restriction as it applies to a separate Alpha account.
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Salvos Rhoska
1578
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Posted - 2016.11.21 18:44:28 -
[52] - Quote
"Paying for one account doesn't magically remove the limitations of another, completely separate account."
They would not be separate, as in my proposal, it is required that they are registered to the same email account.
Meaning specifically only one Alpha, per Omega. Meaning if the email accounts are changed, this expires, until they are registered again to the same account. Meaning when the Omega expires, only one or the other of the accounts can be used through the client at any given time.
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Jennifer Starblaze
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2016.11.21 18:59:58 -
[53] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
When I pay for an account, Im am actively contributing to the provider. When I pay nothing, I do not. contribute to the provider.
When I pay to upgrade my account to Omega, I do so for the benefits. I pay for that.
Whereas Alphas pay nothing.
Saying that alphas do not contribute to the provider is a very narrow minded stance. Especially in a game like EvE which is all about players. They might not give money to CCP, but that does not mean that they do not contribute to the overall health of the game.
Their presence in our beloved sandbox alone makes the universe richer. More people = more content = more fun = higher motivation for people to actually subscribe. |
John WarpingSlow
150
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Posted - 2016.11.21 19:02:35 -
[54] - Quote
7Genius wrote:As far as I see it if I am paying for an Omega account I should still be able to access at least one Alpha, can you please respond to the community of paying players on this.
The reasons for limiting simultaneous login of Alpha clones, or an Alpha clone and any number of Omega clones were covered in two dev blogs written prior to the change from trial accounts to the new method.
September 2, 2016: Clone States GÇô Post Announcement Follow-up
October 10, 2016: Clone States - Post CSM Summit Roundup (See section Simultaneous Logon for Alphas: under the first picture.)
Both the player base and the CSM were pretty loud and obvious about there needing to be a restriction for Alpha clone logins.
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Salvos Rhoska
1578
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Posted - 2016.11.21 19:04:28 -
[55] - Quote
Jennifer Starblaze
You need to read the rest of this thread and the linked thread.
This has already been addressed.
Nor does it refute that an Omega with an associated Alpha would contribute just as much if not more to the health of the game. Especially since they are PAYING to do so.
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Keno Skir
983
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Posted - 2016.11.21 19:10:59 -
[56] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Jennifer Starblaze
You need to read the rest of this thread and the linked thread.
This has already been addressed.
Nor does it refute that an Omega with an associated Alpha would contribute just as much if not more to the health of the game. Especially since they are PAYING to do so.
Giving EVERY subbed account a free alt to follow them around would double server load while contributing nothing. Seriously this has gone on long enough, you are either trolling (on 2 threads) or you are literally too stupid to understand and should be issued a special hat to warn others.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14930
|
Posted - 2016.11.21 19:12:17 -
[57] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:
But something chafes me about losing access to a free service, simply cos I paid.
You didn't lose access to a free service, you paid for a full one and got that instead. You don't get to have more on top of that without paying. Again, "more than one active toon" is on they paid menu only. And that includes training.
I agree with what you wrote, just thought i'd highlight the part of your post that modern entitled people find utterly unacceptable. |
Fatima Foont
12
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Posted - 2016.11.21 19:45:40 -
[58] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Jennifer Starblaze
You need to read the rest of this thread and the linked thread.
This has already been addressed.
Nor does it refute that an Omega with an associated Alpha would contribute just as much if not more to the health of the game. Especially since they are PAYING to do so. Giving EVERY subbed account a free alt to follow them around would double server load while contributing nothing. Seriously this has gone on long enough, you are either trolling (on 2 threads) or you are literally too stupid to understand and should be issued a special hat to warn others.
This, The guy with the missing "m" key thinks he is a master debater. Fact is, it has always been thus. No simultaneous playing of sub and trial, which is all Alpha is.
You will live Snowflake. |
Rin Vocaloid2
DUST University Ivy League
61
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Posted - 2016.11.21 23:19:28 -
[59] - Quote
Didn't CCP post like 3 or 4 Dev blogs covering this and have communicated with the Eve Community for extensive feedback to see what can be done with Alpha clones without them breaking the game and such a thing resulted in Alpha clones in the way they are now? |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7988
|
Posted - 2016.11.21 23:28:49 -
[60] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: This has already been addressed.
You're right, it has. By CCP, who have stated in no uncertain terms that you cannot log in more than one account without paying for both the first, and the second. I don't think they care what sort of mental gymnastics a minority of entitled brats are performing to convince themselves that they're being ripped off and/or deserve more, either, so please, continue wasting your efforts on the forums and frothing at the mouth about it.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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