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Salvos Rhoska
1579
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Posted - 2016.11.22 09:59:43 -
[61] - Quote
Im not frothing. You seem to be the one getting emotionally involved.
This is just debate and intellectual exercise.
I maintain my arguments are rational and valid. So too, however, is CCPs choice, depending on how you look at it. Will it cause a change in CCP policy in the foreseeable future, extremely unlikely. Do I expect that, or is it my motivation? No.
Remi, relax. This is not a life or death issue. The game goes on.
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
6005
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Posted - 2016.11.22 10:15:40 -
[62] - Quote
CCP fanboi reporting in.
OP is a whining brat.
Alpha clones are CCP's way of addressing the problems that some players have with the trial offers: they don't really get enough time to sink their teeth into the game and understand what it's all about. So now they have all the time in the world to learn, establish some relationships, and figure out that the game plays them :D
Salvos Rhoska wrote:I paid for an Omega account.
Why then should I not have the capacity to fly a free Alpha simultaneously with it.
But you do. Every time you log in on an Omega account, you have access to the Alpha account it's sitting on top of. I have access to all the alpha skills that I've already trained, and all the Omega skills I've paid for access to. I also get access to Alpha SP training rate, as well as the 2x training speed bonus of the Omega account.
You make it sound like paying for something entitles you to get something else for free. This is not logical.
It appears that your line of reasoning is predicated on the assumption that you are losing access to the Alpha part of the account when you pay for the Omega extras on top.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Matthias Ancaladron
Hedion University Amarr Empire
8
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Posted - 2016.11.22 10:22:17 -
[63] - Quote
You have an omega account. Wtf do you need an alpha for. Just log in another omega account.
At least I openly admit I'm dirt poor and don't have a lot of extra money to spend on gaming. I got an old dinky laptop that barely runs the game and I only had the chance to play it for a few months with a friends code back in high school to show me the game. And this guys already got accounts and has his fair share and is asking for more lol. People can go ahead and call me entitled if I want to expand alphas a bit so they're less restrictive considering I'm usually broken at the end of the week and have to skim wifi but hey it's a free account it can't do everything. I'll take what I can get and hopefully ccp decides it won't hurt to make them better than their current state
but LOL at a guy with an active omega account complaining about not being able to log in an alpha at the same time. That's worse than entitlement. Go play your main and enjoy having full access to the game, why would you want to waste time holding it on a gimped racially bound account that can't really do anything. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the posing meat Snuffed Out
3706
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Posted - 2016.11.22 10:23:04 -
[64] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:It was also impossible before this change, to have a trial account and a subscribed account logged in together.
Why is it such an issue all of a sudden?
Because free alts and entitlement
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Rayit
The Vomit Comets Villore Accords
3
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Posted - 2016.11.22 10:52:58 -
[65] - Quote
Wow. I thought the toxic reputation that the Eve community has was just a running joke.
Don't make suggestions people. You're being entitled, narrow minded and should just shut up. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the posing meat Snuffed Out
3706
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Posted - 2016.11.22 11:00:22 -
[66] - Quote
Rayit wrote:Wow. I thought the toxic reputation that the Eve community has was just a running joke.
Don't make suggestions people. You're being entitled, narrow minded and should just shut up.
why would it be a running joke?
Alliance Logo Design Service
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
6005
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Posted - 2016.11.22 11:03:53 -
[67] - Quote
Rayit wrote:Wow. I thought the toxic reputation that the Eve community has was just a running joke.
Don't make suggestions people. You're being entitled, narrow minded and should just shut up.
Making a suggestion is one thing, whining like an entitled brat is another.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7995
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Posted - 2016.11.22 11:20:48 -
[68] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
I maintain my arguments are rational and valid.
Well of course you would. Forget the fact that you've been told in no uncertain terms why they're not just not rational or valid, but completely irrelevant, you're never going to admit you're wrong even when you're screaming black and blue that the sky is red god dammit!
I don't think you would understand the first thing about 'intellectual exercise' if Isaac Newton himself travelled through time and bought you a treadmill.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
546
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Posted - 2016.11.22 11:22:57 -
[69] - Quote
Rayit wrote:Wow. I thought the toxic reputation that the Eve community has was just a running joke.
Don't make suggestions people. You're being entitled, narrow minded and should just shut up.
OP didn't make a suggestion, he asked a question which was already answered by the devs long before launch.
the guy just wants a free alt, can't blame him, who wouldn't want one, but it's not allowed while you fly an omega.
nothing toxic about anyones responses considering the OP is playing as long as they are and should know better.
best you leave them rumours and reputaions at the door and get to know the community before you judge it.
if this had been a suggestion it would have been moved to the correct section of the forums. it remains in GD because it was not a suggestion, it was a demand by a player who feels becasue he's payed for the game for x amount of time this should entitle him to a free account (an alt account)
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
526
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Posted - 2016.11.22 11:41:04 -
[70] - Quote
Rayit wrote:Wow. I thought the toxic reputation that the Eve community has was just a running joke.
Don't make suggestions people. You're being entitled, narrow minded and should just shut up.
dude, nobody here is toxic more than the OP, lol.
Just Add Water
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
527
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Posted - 2016.11.22 12:43:59 -
[71] - Quote
*double post*
Just Add Water
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Salvos Rhoska
1579
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Posted - 2016.11.22 13:15:27 -
[72] - Quote
Anyways, situation is what it is.
I wouldnt be surprised if CCP further granulates the Alpha/Omega account statuses in a year or so. Perhaps as I suggested so that Omegas can fly an Alpha simultaneously (and I have explained how that can be beneficial in a previous post), if they are registered to the same email account. Perhaps so that there is a purchase/reward/item option for training additional characters on an Alpha account at Alpha rates
Who knows. Many possibilities. Depends on how the Alpha/Omega project pans out.
Content Packs suffered a hard hit in value from this change, since they used to offer (additionally to other value) 15+20 days of full value SP training. (As well as possibly making advantage of Recruit a Friend, but Im not sure).
I didnt expect that my argument would be widely understood. It involves some hairsplitting and an unusual/unfamiliar (albeit logical and rationally valid) perspective on equity between free and paid services.
I "get" your arguments. I dont think you got mine.
No need to take any of this personally. We are just discussing/debating on an internet spaecship minigame forum. o7
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Memphis Baas
2318
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Posted - 2016.11.22 13:58:56 -
[73] - Quote
We get them, just don't agree. No malice, just disagreement.
For future iterations on the system, we expect CCP to follow what other MMO games have done, and itemize the various restrictions. Upgrade to Beta and you can train the Alpha skills from another race (or all of them), upgrade to Gamma and you can train battlecruisers / battleships, upgrade to Epsilon and you can have a training queue that spans 1 month instead of 1 day, and so on.
Any of the current restrictions, training speed, simultaneous logins, etc., are probably candidates for "pay to unlock". |
Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
739
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Posted - 2016.11.22 14:25:23 -
[74] - Quote
There is much entitled whining in this thread. This was always going to be a slippery slope once you start devaluing the game by dumbing it down and making things easier / cheaper to try and make more money. People will always want more.
This alpha clone thing isn't even much different from a trial account; and you couldn't run a trial alongside a full account. No one complained about that.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
2977
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Posted - 2016.11.22 14:25:27 -
[75] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:It was also impossible before this change, to have a trial account and a subscribed account logged in together.
Why is it such an issue all of a sudden? Because free permanent alts and entitlement
Fixed that for you. It's kind of a big deal for that alt to not stop being accessible after 14/21 days. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
8001
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Posted - 2016.11.22 14:31:57 -
[76] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:We get them, just don't agree. No malice, just disagreement.
For future iterations on the system, we expect CCP to follow what other MMO games have done, and itemize the various restrictions. Upgrade to Beta and you can train the Alpha skills from another race (or all of them), upgrade to Gamma and you can train battlecruisers / battleships, upgrade to Epsilon and you can have a training queue that spans 1 month instead of 1 day, and so on.
Any of the current restrictions, training speed, simultaneous logins, etc., are probably candidates for "pay to unlock".
No, EVE should not do what other games do. EVE should keep doing what it does best: being unique. Too many paywalls is way too complex, and I guarantee you more people will whine about that than this.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2449
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Posted - 2016.11.22 14:37:09 -
[77] - Quote
For the OP, the simple answer to your question is that Eve has always been a pay to win game, you can only play the game effectively with two characters in space, otherwise you are an easy kill and I think you understand that by the way you posted.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
8003
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Posted - 2016.11.22 14:40:28 -
[78] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:For the OP, the simple answer to your question is that Eve has always been a pay to win game, you can only play the game effectively with two characters in space, otherwise you are an easy kill and I think you understand that by the way you posted.
HAHAHA! Whatever mate, I've only ever played with one account and my KB speaks for itself.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2449
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Posted - 2016.11.22 14:41:48 -
[79] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Dracvlad wrote:For the OP, the simple answer to your question is that Eve has always been a pay to win game, you can only play the game effectively with two characters in space, otherwise you are an easy kill and I think you understand that by the way you posted.
HAHAHA! Whatever mate, I've only ever played with one account and my KB speaks for itself.
Calm down ganker!
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
8003
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Posted - 2016.11.22 14:48:13 -
[80] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Dracvlad wrote:For the OP, the simple answer to your question is that Eve has always been a pay to win game, you can only play the game effectively with two characters in space, otherwise you are an easy kill and I think you understand that by the way you posted.
HAHAHA! Whatever mate, I've only ever played with one account and my KB speaks for itself. Calm down ganker! Also there is no proof that you have only one account, just your word, which I have to say is not worth much!
Everyone that knows me well enough knows I only have one account. Whether or not you believe me is irrelevant. You're a nobody. But you'll never be able to tie another character to me as an alt of any kind, ever, because I don't have or use one. I've only ever played EVE with one account, and the three toons I have on this account, this one being my main, along with a hauling alt and a low-skilled alt for pvp with rookies learning the game. If there was an easy way to prove it, I'd do so in a heartbeat. I have no reason to lie about this.
And you call me ganker as if that's a bad thing. Why are you discriminating against gankers? Seriously dude, don't be racist.
I have never had any intention of getting more than one account. Honestly, if it was true that you needed to pay two subs to achieve anything in this game, I would never have subbed to begin with. That would just be a blatant ripoff, and anyone that thinks you need more than one account is only deceiving themselves, and wasting their own money. Sorry, but I'm just not that easy to swindle.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Keno Skir
991
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Posted - 2016.11.22 14:51:42 -
[81] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:For the OP, the simple answer to your question is that Eve has always been a pay to win game, you can only play the game effectively with two characters in space, otherwise you are an easy kill and I think you understand that by the way you posted.
Just because YOU cannot play effectively with one character does not mean the rest of us are as floppy and flacid as you, sir
<Gùï> 250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <Gùï>
Including ISK Bonus & In Game Assistance - Piracy / Wormhole Space / Covops PvP
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
8007
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Posted - 2016.11.22 14:57:50 -
[82] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:Dracvlad wrote:For the OP, the simple answer to your question is that Eve has always been a pay to win game, you can only play the game effectively with two characters in space, otherwise you are an easy kill and I think you understand that by the way you posted.
Just because YOU cannot play effectively with one character does not mean the rest of us are as floppy and flacid as you, sir
Well, that's probably also because the rest of us know how to make friend and join communities.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2449
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Posted - 2016.11.22 15:14:08 -
[83] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Dracvlad wrote:For the OP, the simple answer to your question is that Eve has always been a pay to win game, you can only play the game effectively with two characters in space, otherwise you are an easy kill and I think you understand that by the way you posted.
HAHAHA! Whatever mate, I've only ever played with one account and my KB speaks for itself. Calm down ganker! Also there is no proof that you have only one account, just your word, which I have to say is not worth much! Everyone that knows me well enough knows I only have one account. Whether or not you believe me is irrelevant. You're a nobody. But you'll never be able to tie another character to me as an alt of any kind, ever, because I don't have or use one. I've only ever played EVE with one account, and the three toons I have on this account, this one being my main, along with a hauling alt and a low-skilled alt for pvp with rookies learning the game. If there was an easy way to prove it, I'd do so in a heartbeat. I have no reason to lie about this. And you call me ganker as if that's a bad thing. Why are you discriminating against gankers? Seriously dude, don't be racist. I have never had any intention of getting more than one account. Honestly, if it was true that you needed to pay two subs to achieve anything in this game, I would never have subbed to begin with. That would just be a blatant ripoff, and anyone that thinks you need more than one account is only deceiving themselves, and wasting their own money. Sorry, but I'm just not that easy to swindle.
Calm down ganker is a rip off of the HTFU line calm down miner, it is a nice throw away line that one can use at certain points in time. Wow using racist out of context to boot, you do need to calm down.
There is no way to prove that your words are true, there are so many people who do solo PvP, but have a boosting alt, thankfully made a bit more difficult, a Falcon alt and of course scouts to locate and get close to targets. Put simply it may be possible that you do indeed only have one account, but the odds are very unlikely.
As for being flabby, I played the first two years with a single account and there are a number of things that were high risk because of having one account when there was no one else online. A little bit or organisation and foresight normally sorted that for me, but it got a bit tedious as it often involved a lot of work or waiting around for people to get online.
The issue is that casual players are easy meat because of this, but seeing as you seem to be pushing one account only, can we impose that so everyone has a single account, I would rather like that!
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2449
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Posted - 2016.11.22 15:17:37 -
[84] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Keno Skir wrote:Dracvlad wrote:For the OP, the simple answer to your question is that Eve has always been a pay to win game, you can only play the game effectively with two characters in space, otherwise you are an easy kill and I think you understand that by the way you posted.
Just because YOU cannot play effectively with one character does not mean the rest of us are as floppy and flacid as you, sir Well, that's probably also because the rest of us know how to make friend and join communities.
Which is why you are in your own alt corp with no other players I suppose.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
8007
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Posted - 2016.11.22 15:20:09 -
[85] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Meaningless words from a meaningless nobody
Uhuh, I've been playing with a single account since 2012. You don't have to believe it, because once again, you are a nobody who doesn't matter to anybody. There are enough people in the game who do matter that know this is true that I feel no need to convince you, only the people that might read your bullshit and be misled by it. One might even mistake you for a CCP shill trying to convince people to hand over more of their money unecessarily, but only briefly before remembering you're a nobody who just isn't good enough to work with CCP. I'm not pushing for people to have one account, I'm just calling out your bullshit claim that the game can't be played with just one. I'm not the only one who does just fine with one account though, vladdy boy, so you once again do little more than expatiate complete bullshit and subsequently demonstrate your lack of understanding of EVE Online, as usual. Thank you, come again.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14934
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Posted - 2016.11.22 15:21:27 -
[86] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:We get them, just don't agree.
Highlighted the part that will go way over his head .
I'd wager we all know people like this IRL, folks with severely suspect and self serving ways of thinking that always mistake disagreement as lack of understanding. ie "You would agree with me if you could just understand what I mean!!". I think it's a clear indication that the person can't grasp the idea that other people are different from them and will have different opinions even with the same information and understanding.
In this particular case we can also see the deep and selfish shortsightedness and lack of ability to understand consequences.
When CCP 1st announced alpha clones on this forum, I was one of the first few posters to say that multiboxing must not be allowed for alphas. The reason was simple, I could easily see how I myself would be able to use these things for my own benefit.
Even if we were allowed to use a single alpha alt, that would be too much, my alpha would fly a vexor with medium faction drones and follow my main ratting ship around anomalies and missions clearing up all the small stuff while i killed the bigger stuff, increasing my isk per hour greatly. And If I can figure that out, so can every other ratter and mission runner, and having a 'cleaner alt' would become standard.
If I were as shortsighted as Salvos and the OP appear to be, the thought of the consequences (and well as being able to understand WHY that would be bad) would never have crossed my mind. So again it's not a lack of being able to understand the guy, it's understanding all to well why such ideas are bad. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2449
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Posted - 2016.11.22 15:38:16 -
[87] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Meaningless words from a meaningless nobody Uhuh, I've been playing with a single account since 2012. You don't have to believe it, because once again, you are a nobody who doesn't matter to anybody. There are enough people in the game who do matter that know this is true that I feel no need to convince you, only the people that might read your bullshit and be misled by it. One might even mistake you for a CCP shill trying to convince people to hand over more of their money unecessarily, but only briefly before remembering you're a nobody who just isn't good enough to work with CCP. I'm not pushing for people to have one account, I'm just calling out your bullshit claim that the game can't be played with just one. I'm not the only one who does just fine with one account though, vladdy boy, so you once again do little more than expatiate complete bullshit and subsequently demonstrate your lack of understanding of EVE Online, as usual. Thank you, come again.
You do need to calm down, did the threat of legal action from those Scientologists really get you that worked up and you have never calmed down since?
So when people play with one account like I did for two years and those around me had two, three or even more accounts I am at a massive disadvantage am I not? My statement is that Eve has always been pay to win and having the ability to pay for more than one account is effectively paying to win, the OP asked to even that up a bit by allowing him to run an Alpha account alongside his Omega clone which is a fair point.
That you state rather self pompously that you have one account as if it means anything when the majority of PvP players have multiple accounts makes no real difference, the majority of people that one plays against in Eve have multiple accounts, or at least the ones who matter do. I for one would be very happy to restrict Eve to one account only, I guess you would not!
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Keno Skir
995
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Posted - 2016.11.22 18:35:38 -
[88] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Meaningless words from a meaningless nobody Uhuh, I've been playing with a single account since 2012. You don't have to believe it, because once again, you are a nobody who doesn't matter to anybody. There are enough people in the game who do matter that know this is true that I feel no need to convince you, only the people that might read your bullshit and be misled by it. One might even mistake you for a CCP shill trying to convince people to hand over more of their money unecessarily, but only briefly before remembering you're a nobody who just isn't good enough to work with CCP. I'm not pushing for people to have one account, I'm just calling out your bullshit claim that the game can't be played with just one. I'm not the only one who does just fine with one account though, vladdy boy, so you once again do little more than expatiate complete bullshit and subsequently demonstrate your lack of understanding of EVE Online, as usual. Thank you, come again. You do need to calm down, did the threat of legal action from those Scientologists really get you that worked up, and you have never calmed down since? So when people play with one account like I did for two years and those around me had two, three or even more accounts I am at a massive disadvantage am I not? My statement is that Eve has always been pay to win and having the ability to pay for more than one account is effectively paying to win, the OP asked to even that up a bit by allowing him to run an Alpha account alongside his Omega clone which is a fair point. That you state rather self pompously that you have one account as if it means anything when the majority of PvP players have multiple accounts makes no real difference, the majority of people that one plays against in Eve have multiple accounts, or at least the ones who matter do. I for one would be very happy to restrict Eve to one account only, I guess you would not!
Think you both need to walk away, nobody looks good here
(enjoying it all tho)
<Gùï> 250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <Gùï>
Including ISK Bonus & In Game Assistance - Piracy / Wormhole Space / Covops PvP
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Salvos Rhoska
1590
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Posted - 2016.11.22 19:33:42 -
[89] - Quote
Jenn aSide:
So many vitriolic hooks and barbs... Why you want to hurt my feelings :(
A) I do not expect rote agreement. If I did, I would only say things that everyone can agree with (if such a thing exists) B) "Getting" it was in reference to a number of other posters who did not understand the underlying concenpt I was talking about. C) This lack of understanding is evidenced not by their lack of agreement, but by their kneejerk reaction and/or avoidance of the issue in their responses. D) I was not aware Alphas can use faction items. This seems a stupid and incongruous decision, but nevermind that now. E) My point was to explore/discuss a perspective on the nature of equity between a free and paid service, not to whine or demand anything. F) I dont care, either way. As it stands, my only use for Alphas atm is to setup as many of them as I can be bothered to login to update skill ques on for whichever future purpose.
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Vortexo VonBrenner
Raumfahrer Spiff Rakett Piloot Anslutning
2540
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Posted - 2016.11.22 19:46:50 -
[90] - Quote
Rayit wrote:Wow. I thought the toxic reputation that the Eve community has was just a running joke.
Don't make suggestions people. You're being entitled, narrow minded and should just shut up. What you may not realise is that the OP's "suggestion" is entitled (wants free stuff without considering the effects that would have on the game) is narrow minded (devs considered the issue and publicly addressed it long ago) and well...perhaps...
If you consider this bad, might I suggest you evaluate your hardness vs. softness level?
Welcome to the internet and welcome to EvE.
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Smoke me a Kipper...
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