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Dietrich Roosevelt
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.11.20 20:55:26 -
[1] - Quote
I want to work on establishing a functioning government in-game, something I've never truly seen. This wouldn't be a Corporation or an Alliance per se, but rather an organization of players separate from other politics. I think it should be put together from the ground up after numerous discussions and planning. Some vague thoughts on what this could look like:
-True democracy in action: organized elections and actual branches of government -financial regulation: find ways to allow financial systems to exist in EVE and prevent fraud -ambitious projects, such as a constantly updated wormhole map with autopilot -laws and law enforcement: develop the ability to attach consequence to player actions and enforce them through player action
I'm not discussing a Corporation or Alliance, so I don't believe this belongs in Recruitment forum. If I'm wrong, I apologize and I ask a moderator to kindly move me over there. I'm also not suggesting updates to the game itself, this is purely something that players would run within the existing game structure.
I'm not calling for a total upheaval of the game's political and power structures, rather something that runs parallel to them. If any of this interests you or you simply want to follow developments, please comment in the thread.
FWIW: I'm an old '09 player who has returned under the new Free to Play system (handy since I haven't the money to play otherwise). |
Engage You
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
6
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Posted - 2016.11.20 20:59:11 -
[2] - Quote
it's called code
a communist state and a dictatorship |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
19164
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Posted - 2016.11.20 21:06:34 -
[3] - Quote
Bahaha, no they're not. Don't get me wrong now I like CODE. I think they're funny as hell and ****ing with miners is always a good thing
But an authority they are not.
We're Back in Business ,
have your very own Meeny Faced Bastards on call today
=]|[=
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3716
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Posted - 2016.11.20 21:08:48 -
[4] - Quote
You are asking for a Corp in Null. Where you can enforce your rules and revoke docking access if they don't obey your rules. You can have organised elections and the like in your corp if you want, nothing stops you running your corp like that. |
Valkin Mordirc
2657
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Posted - 2016.11.20 21:16:37 -
[5] - Quote
That a very big idea, and starting here of all places is not the start you want.
Edit: And CODE. authority if they had actually authority AFK mining and autopilot wouldn't be a thing. But it is.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Aaron
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
416
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Posted - 2016.11.20 21:25:22 -
[6] - Quote
Dietrich Roosevelt wrote:I want to work on establishing a functioning government in-game, something I've never truly seen. This wouldn't be a Corporation or an Alliance per se, but rather an organization of players separate from other politics. I think it should be put together from the ground up after numerous discussions and planning. Some vague thoughts on what this could look like:
-True democracy in action: organized elections and actual branches of government -financial regulation: find ways to allow financial systems to exist in EVE and prevent fraud -ambitious projects, such as a constantly updated wormhole map with autopilot -laws and law enforcement: develop the ability to attach consequence to player actions and enforce them through player action
I'm not discussing a Corporation or Alliance, so I don't believe this belongs in Recruitment forum. If I'm wrong, I apologize and I ask a moderator to kindly move me over there. I'm also not suggesting updates to the game itself, this is purely something that players would run within the existing game structure.
I'm not calling for a total upheaval of the game's political and power structures, rather something that runs parallel to them. If any of this interests you or you simply want to follow developments, please comment in the thread.
FWIW: I'm an old '09 player who has returned under the new Free to Play system (handy since I haven't the money to play otherwise).
I tried to do something reasonably similar. I invited people to npc nullsec and got them to blue every other corp/solo player involved. Communication was done via mailing list.
It worked for a short while, we had people who scanned out wh hi sec routes, we had people who did missions and invited other blues we had lookouts gathering intel. It did fall apart due to difference of opinion with lots of people wanting to roll us up into one corp or alliance. I disagreed claiming that people liked their independence and wanted to be part of a relaxed blue coalition and still maintain their identity.
It sounds like you and I have similar views and I would be more than happy to talk with you on this. Perhaps a blue coallition where there is a council and an elected leadership specialising in operating in hi sec and npc nullsec.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1658
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Posted - 2016.11.20 21:49:41 -
[7] - Quote
Amateur-planner megalomania is a thing. You want to run a democratic group separate from other politics? Impossible because you're in the same closed environment with no way to keep others out of your territory or out of your group as spais. Any group is part of the bigger picture, it's actually a good thing about eve that 17 guys tearing up a lowsec pipe will develop relationships with groups that are huge and play a part in the ecosystem. Aaron wanted things done his way and has exploded groups in comedy fireballs repeatedly, losing members to properly and seriously organised neighbours. Has the US election made you care about politics? In days of old it was seen as a refuge for men unhappily married.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
442
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Posted - 2016.11.20 22:03:09 -
[8] - Quote
The nullbears have this big blue donut nobody wants to poke.
A signature :o
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
20164
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Posted - 2016.11.20 22:09:58 -
[9] - Quote
Villore Accords maybe. They have even done something like Villore Assembly that is doing stuff only politicians do.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò =ƒÜÇ
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45856
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Posted - 2016.11.20 22:16:40 -
[10] - Quote
GO talk to Aaron. This seems a bit like hub zero.
Then go look at the previous hub zero threads.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Aaron
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
417
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Posted - 2016.11.20 22:39:53 -
[11] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Amateur-planner megalomania is a thing.
Aaron wanted things done his way and has exploded groups in comedy fireballs repeatedly, losing members to properly and seriously organised neighbours.
My way seems to be precisely what the op is suggesting. If the OP is interested in working together on this we would need to find more people who agree with the OP and not people who pretend to agree with the OP.
Have your fun with trolling this. I know there are a good 50 people lining up ready to insult me and attempt to stop the OP and myself working together with stories of how hard they found me to work with etc. Feel free to post my previous threads and try your hardest to ensure nothing happens with this.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1658
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Posted - 2016.11.20 23:40:08 -
[12] - Quote
Aaron wrote:Feel free to post my previous threads and try your hardest to ensure nothing happens with this.
Nobody has done a thing to get in your way except you. The thread is not about you and won't be. OP needs to understand that working outside the corp/alliance/coalition structure has real drawbacks. "Your way" has to provide for members, there are groups numbering in their thousands out there, they are not losers who give up their identity or freedom. When leadership doesn't enable a stable place to operate from, or provide content for the more passive line members, the group dissolves. The rest is RP fluff and details.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Aaron
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
417
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Posted - 2016.11.21 00:15:22 -
[13] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Aaron wrote:Feel free to post my previous threads and try your hardest to ensure nothing happens with this.
Nobody has done a thing to get in your way except you. The thread is not about you and won't be. OP needs to understand that working outside the corp/alliance/coalition structure has real drawbacks. "Your way" has to provide for members, there are groups numbering in their thousands out there, they are not losers who give up their identity or freedom. When leadership doesn't enable a stable place to operate from, or provide content for the more passive line members, the group dissolves. The rest is RP fluff and details.
Of course there are drawbacks to working outside of the corp/alliance structure. The fun and challenge is in seeing if something different can be achieved. It depends on you're perspective, you don't strike me as a person who is interested in helping to build something like this.
Perspective is like a block of flats with 50 floors. Depending on what floor you live on your perspective when you look out of the window will be different from the others.
Chopper I'd suggest you leave to OP and myself to think exactly how we want to think. We understand the drawbacks fully and I get the impression the OP likes doing stuff like this cos its interesting. You took a wrong turn somewhere chopper and ended up posting in this thread.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Aaron
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
417
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Posted - 2016.11.21 00:19:48 -
[14] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Aaron wrote:Feel free to post my previous threads and try your hardest to ensure nothing happens with this.
Nobody has done a thing to get in your way except you.
Except tell me they agree with something when in fact they don't.
You see OP, lots of people will be quick to tell you how anything outside of a corp and alliance won't work. Try your best to ignore them and continue with your vision. Don't waste any of your time listening to people like Chopper and do your best to keep them out of your circle. Find people who are honestly passionate about the general idea and then work out the logistics in executing it.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5992
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Posted - 2016.11.21 00:28:38 -
[15] - Quote
True democracy, without the politics?
You need to understand that wherever you get two or more people together, the politics have already started before anyone says a word. You can not excape politics, and I would suggest you try the conventional organisational model and draw on the experience of others before you start trying to create your utopia.
I wish you well, but I think you have some painful lessons to learn about herding cats, butting heads, and finding out that wrangling egos involves compromising many of the ideals that you have up to now considered holy and pure. You will be lying to friends and shaking hands with enemies, and politics will become part of your everyday life.
When you have some experience, you will find people who want to follow you. When you have concrete ideas on how to establish this government, people will follow.
Without people-wrangling experience or any concrete ideas on how things will work (e.g.: a constitution and charter) you are basically setting yourself up for failure.
Join an existing organisation, see if you can develop the skills for leadership and administration, then come looking for followers.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1658
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Posted - 2016.11.21 00:53:42 -
[16] - Quote
Aaron wrote:Chopper I'd suggest you leave to OP and myself to think exactly how we want to think.
You don't think maybe it's your advice that would be damaging? Captain of Titanics 1 to 5?
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Memphis Baas
2294
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Posted - 2016.11.21 01:00:40 -
[17] - Quote
This is a pipe dream that's impossible to implement.
Players who want to organize themselves this way join a corp or nullsec alliance. Players who don't, they stay in high-sec.
A lot of the infrastructure for "government" would have to be coded by CCP as changes to the game mechanics, because otherwise nobody's gonna follow the "laws."
The game already has rules ("laws") that we follow, no need for more.
Organizing anything that involves people, a fleet op, a corp, an alliance, is a ton of work and quite a few expenses out of pocket. Those who want to put in the work already do it. You going to elect "officials" to do the work? First thing I'd do if elected would be to steal whatever money I'm given, give everyone the bird in an email, and log off for a year. You can't make people work in a game if they don't want to.
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
853
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Posted - 2016.11.21 02:18:46 -
[18] - Quote
Isn't this pretty much provibloc ? (after a fashion) |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7966
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Posted - 2016.11.21 02:55:53 -
[19] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Bahaha, no they're not. Don't get me wrong now I like CODE. I think they're funny as hell and ****ing with miners is always a good thing
But an authority they are not.
They've never claimed to be an authority, either. Just the saviours and peacekeepers that they are, upholding and enforcing the law of highsec.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7966
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Posted - 2016.11.21 03:00:21 -
[20] - Quote
Aaron wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Aaron wrote:Feel free to post my previous threads and try your hardest to ensure nothing happens with this.
Nobody has done a thing to get in your way except you. Except tell me they agree with something when in fact they don't. You see OP, lots of people will be quick to tell you how anything outside of a corp and alliance won't work. Try your best to ignore them and continue with your vision. Don't waste any of your time listening to people like Chopper and do your best to keep them out of your circle. Find people who are honestly passionate about the general idea and then work out the logistics in executing it.
Who are you and why should anyone listen to you over Chopper, who I know has been here for years and has tonnes of experience and understanding of the game.
At the end of the day, you do what you want, and what you have the power to do, in this game.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Aaron
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
417
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Posted - 2016.11.21 03:08:08 -
[21] - Quote
Some of you Eve players over complicate things.
You seem to ignore the fact there are lots of solo pilots and small corps who like being small and being independent from an alliance. Being involved in some sort of blue community allows these smaller solos/corps to network among like-minded people and gain pvp or isk opportunities.
The OP could arrange for a specific group of corps to act as a security force for the blues in this "government" other blues can join the fleet and help out if they choose. We could have an intel channel which highlighted where the camps are in high sec, all our blues would gain an advantage being part of this "government"
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7966
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Posted - 2016.11.21 03:16:38 -
[22] - Quote
Aaron wrote:Some of you Eve players over complicate things.
You seem to ignore the fact there are lots of solo pilots and small corps who like being small and being independent from an alliance. Being involved in some sort of blue community allows these smaller solos/corps to network among like-minded people and gain pvp or isk opportunities.
Yeah, I'm one of em, but I do all these things solo, including PVP, without needing what you're talking about. I have one already, but we're all in different time zones and I only see them for about two hours of an evening. The rest of the day, I'm on my own, and do just fine. But all that aside, what's the difference between a 'blue community' and just joining a corp/alliance that does and lets you do what you want?
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Aaron
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
417
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Posted - 2016.11.21 03:18:15 -
[23] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Aaron wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Aaron wrote:Feel free to post my previous threads and try your hardest to ensure nothing happens with this.
Nobody has done a thing to get in your way except you. Except tell me they agree with something when in fact they don't. You see OP, lots of people will be quick to tell you how anything outside of a corp and alliance won't work. Try your best to ignore them and continue with your vision. Don't waste any of your time listening to people like Chopper and do your best to keep them out of your circle. Find people who are honestly passionate about the general idea and then work out the logistics in executing it. Who are you and why should anyone listen to you over Chopper, who I know has been here for years and has tonnes of experience and understanding of the game. At the end of the day, you do what you want, and what you have the power to do, in this game.
Who am I??!!
I'm the guy whose been on the front line since 2006 and had the courage to try things and analyse the results. I've invited new guys to npc 0.0 and watched them become more powerful than they could have ever imagined. I'm the guy who looks out for the little guy, I'm the guy who dares to dream. I'm the rebel, I am against all forms of elitism and capitalism.
I'm they guy whose had a very different experience from chopper.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7966
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Posted - 2016.11.21 03:24:25 -
[24] - Quote
Capitalism is a necessary balancing factor to socialism, as socialism is to capitalism. When you have one without the other, you open the doors much wider to corruption and chaos. If you're against one or the other, it's for ideological reasons, not academic ones, which means you haven't got the ability to form a relevant, educated objection to either in the first place.
I know chopper. I don't know you. And 'daring to dream' is not a convincing qualifier when it comes to experience with EVE Online and its socioeconomic dynamics. Try again.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Aaron
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
417
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Posted - 2016.11.21 03:29:48 -
[25] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Aaron wrote:Some of you Eve players over complicate things.
You seem to ignore the fact there are lots of solo pilots and small corps who like being small and being independent from an alliance. Being involved in some sort of blue community allows these smaller solos/corps to network among like-minded people and gain pvp or isk opportunities.
Yeah, I'm one of em, but I do all these things solo, including PVP, without needing what you're talking about. I have one already, but we're all in different time zones and I only see them for about two hours of an evening. The rest of the day, I'm on my own, and do just fine. But all that aside, what's the difference between a 'blue community' and just joining a corp/alliance that does and lets you do what you want?
Quick answer, it all depends on perspective. I know that lots of money is pumped into ensuring the little guy is wardecced, ganked and robbed of anything he has. These acts are carried out by some of the large corps and alliances. Some people can get a kick out of fighting the corporate machine that keeps them under an oppressive regime.
It depends what you want really. You may not care for the things I speak of, I like things like this because it creates content and there's normally drama, politics and excitement surrounding it.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7966
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Posted - 2016.11.21 03:31:08 -
[26] - Quote
And those are fair points, you've made your case, but it all comes back to what I said before: This is EVE, you do what you want and what you have the power to accomplish.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Aaron
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
417
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Posted - 2016.11.21 03:47:16 -
[27] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:And those are fair points, you've made your case, but it all comes back to what I said before: This is EVE, you do what you want and what you have the power to accomplish. In order to accomplish what this thread is looking for, then you need to understand that the players you want to get involved in this are also going to do what they want and what they have the power to accomplish. You need to figure out what that is for each individual that you want to convince to join you, so that you can cater to their needs. Government isn't as easy as you seem to think, and whether you like it or not, every leader, dictator or not, needs his keys.
I've done enough talking for now, I'd like to read more from the OP. Ill come back to your point later on in the thread.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3704
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Posted - 2016.11.21 10:12:56 -
[28] - Quote
its called the csm, you're not relevant enough
Alliance Logo Design Service
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Loyalist to Angel Cartel
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Vigirr
55
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Posted - 2016.11.21 10:21:17 -
[29] - Quote
People who WANT to lead rarely are qualified to do so, mostly has to do with low self esteem and illusions of grandeur.
People who choose to lead because they feel someone needs to take control to in order to deal with a specific situation tend to become the best leaders.
People who want to lead and create a character with an obvious name, somehow trying to signify their leadership capabilities, are hilariously obvious and by default not leadership quality. In EVE there is one exception to this and even that one is debatable
EVE is a meritocracy, if you want to lead you had be better be good at it. |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1663
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Posted - 2016.11.21 11:14:28 -
[30] - Quote
Vigirr wrote:People who WANT to lead rarely are qualified to do so, mostly has to do with low self esteem and illusions of grandeur...
People are more complex than that. Napoleon Bonaparte said that once he'd experienced command he could never take orders again. Nobody argues that he was either a bad leader, an idiot or flawed somehow. His actions changed the genetic makeup of a continent, for a long time he was the archetypal historic 'great man' that drives history and now when people hear his name they think of cognac. Eve mechanics are simpler and more forgiving than life, what with resources spawning forever and nobody ever dying. Great thing about Eve is tinpot little dictator types can be quite useful in generating action, while good, smart men get used as stooges for the players behind coups. I'm looking at you BNI 2015.
OP, people set up all sorts of arrangements but the game's limits remain. Democracy requires more of the individual and the organisation than most spaecships pilots are willing to commit.
That link from Remiel is gold, it collapses big important things down into sentences.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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