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Bob Donovitch
The Iron Bank and Trust
28
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Posted - 2016.12.08 14:43:06 -
[151] - Quote
WIS... I can think of one good reason for it.
The ability to walk into a bar and spot that pilot that snatched your loot in that combat site you were finishing up and vaporize him into cosmic debris.
Beyond that.... Can't see any real advantage to it. |
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
420
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Posted - 2016.12.08 16:23:05 -
[152] - Quote
Snyzer Erata wrote:I'm new here. I have talked about "walking in stations" with some people in the game and the old players seem to be against it. Could someone explain to me exactly why this is such a bad idea? It seems simple to implement and would increase the immersion of the game.
I didnt read this whole thread but from what i read on the first page one would get the impression that WIS was supported originally and then we players didnt support it. That would be incorrect.
Here is how this actually went. the carebears of Eve ( i distinctly remember this as we told them to go back to WOW), started whining on the forums and causing a fuss because they wanted to be able to walk in stations. They thought it would be cool to have like a bar, shopping area, gaming area with mini games, what not in stations.
A majority of Eve players said that is a dumb idea. This is a space game, not Second Life. The minority of players won. It was the first time that CCP didnt listen to the majority of their player base. I believe at a time they thought it would appeal to more "softcore" players and up subs.
The community was outraged except for this almost drowned out voice from bears who wanted to watch their avatar walk around inside a station. We tried to get CCP to change their minds. Many threatened to unsub. I guess CCP though we were bluffing.
After WIS was released it was a disaster. A lot of dev time had been spent on it and it added nothing of value to the game. Players were outraged that CCP would spend so much time on a such a useless feature that only a very small minority wanted.
That was the first time in Eves history it had a net loss in subs. I had few friends that quit, and AFAIK none of them have returned. CCP boxed the idea of WIS and it has never been discussed as more than a bad time in Eve history. CCP has never once mentioned doing anything else with it. It was not added to Citadels and honestly it will probably die a quiet death when stations disappear from Eve unless the opinions of players changes and thats probably not going to happen.
CCP cannot afford to make risky moves not supported by players in todays gaming market. They are learning that every time they do something we dont like they lose some of us. This has lead them to refocus on Eve and to focus on emergent gameplay and new features that give us more to do in space.
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Alice Wonders
Acadia Investment Group
1
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Posted - 2016.12.08 16:43:15 -
[153] - Quote
Snyzer Erata wrote:I'm new here. I have talked about "walking in stations" with some people in the game and the old players seem to be against it. Could someone explain to me exactly why this is such a bad idea? It seems simple to implement and would increase the immersion of the game.
For the same reason one of the most popular mods for X:Rebirth is the removal of walking in stations. |
Salvos Rhoska
1646
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Posted - 2016.12.08 17:11:41 -
[154] - Quote
CCP had their chance to integrate various side-projects into the continuous EVE universe, and to include FPS content such as WiS.
They flubbed it completely.
Fortunately, EVE itself is a game that will age extremely well. There simply is nothing even remotely like it. Star Citizen may offer a more vicarious, intimate experience of captaining a spaceship, but is also hugely expensive as well as requiring top rate rigs to play.
Many EVE players never even see their ship except as a small marker on the display, except when they bring up the fitting window. And they are totally fine with that. EVE is a meta experience that is largely community driiven. I dont see SC ever achieving that to the extent EVE has.
Its a huge shame, CCP came so close, but they borked it. WiS failed utterly. DUST failed utterly. Valkyrie failed utterly. And none of them got relevantly included i to the EVE continuity.
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
21889
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Posted - 2016.12.08 17:24:24 -
[155] - Quote
Quote:Valkyrie failed utterly. CCP have 1% of VR market.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò =ƒÜÇ
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ Osprey
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Salvos Rhoska
1646
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Posted - 2016.12.08 17:28:24 -
[156] - Quote
How the hell does Facebook have any part in VR market?
And yes, I consider 1% a failure, considering Valkyrie was basically tied to, developed for and shipped with VR systems.
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
21889
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Posted - 2016.12.08 17:39:37 -
[157] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:How the hell does Facebook have any part in VR market? And yes, I consider 1% a failure, considering Valkyrie was basically tied to, developed for and shipped with VR systems. Here is the report. You can see for yourself.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò =ƒÜÇ
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ Osprey
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Salvos Rhoska
1646
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Posted - 2016.12.08 17:52:21 -
[158] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:How the hell does Facebook have any part in VR market? And yes, I consider 1% a failure, considering Valkyrie was basically tied to, developed for and shipped with VR systems. Here is the report.You can see for yourself.
1950 bucks for full report. No thanks.
Tbh reading through the introduction looks like a piece of contrived crap.
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Orakkus
m3 Corp Evictus.
283
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Posted - 2016.12.08 18:13:31 -
[159] - Quote
I'll add my two cents in here even though I'll probably be parroting what a lot of folks said.
The biggest problem was that CCP put time into WiS when there were VERY serious problems going on with the overall game. And back then, the devs were way less willing to listen to players and there were many seriously broken aspects to the game. Minmatar, for example, had like two or three ungodly outstanding ships, but the rest were near useless, Typhoons required 3x the number of skillpoints as any other battleship just to be as effective as any other battleship, etc. Things were really, really bad. Essentially players were playing in spite of the devs, who at the time lacked the ability to understand how things were actually be done in game.. and some had not played the game in months. I still remember the fight over projectiles and how it took nearly a year before the dev in charge of balancing was forced to admit that we were right.
There were a lot of issues and then when Incarna was released.. none of these were addressed on top of the fact that while the character creator was top notch (even now), all you could do was walk from your dock to your room. You couldn't even visit other people in station. I personally was in favor of WiS, but I have to agree.. without any useful content attached to it.. it was pointless to even push it.
He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
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Zimmy Zeta
Lisa Needs Braces.
59830
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Posted - 2016.12.08 18:37:25 -
[160] - Quote
Orakkus wrote:I'll add my two cents in here even though I'll probably be parroting what a lot of folks said.
The biggest problem was that CCP put time into WiS when there were VERY serious problems going on with the overall game. And back then, the devs were way less willing to listen to players and there were many seriously broken aspects to the game. Minmatar, for example, had like two or three ungodly outstanding ships, but the rest were near useless, Typhoons required 3x the number of skillpoints as any other battleship just to be as effective as any other battleship, etc. Things were really, really bad. Essentially players were playing in spite of the devs, who at the time lacked the ability to understand how things were actually be done in game.. and some had not played the game in months. I still remember the fight over projectiles and how it took nearly a year before the dev in charge of balancing was forced to admit that we were right.
There were a lot of issues and then when Incarna was released.. none of these were addressed on top of the fact that while the character creator was top notch (even now), all you could do was walk from your dock to your room. You couldn't even visit other people in station. I personally was in favor of WiS, but I have to agree.. without any useful content attached to it.. it was pointless to even push it.
Your version of the whole Incarna story is much closer to how I remember it myself, unlike Roenok Baalnorn's hateful diatribe. Back before Incarna, CCP were the superstars of the videogame industry. Eve had won the "Best MMO" award yet again, they had just acquired the rights for World of Darkness, DUST was announced and they had hired many more devs for their new US offices. We thought they were infallible. Eve's "papercuts" were annoying, but most of us were excited about the prospects of avatar gameplay. Everything bad or unfinished about Eve was excusable since "Eve is hard, don't dumb it down". It's only when the final product Incarna came out that this bubble of wishful expectation burst with a bang. And when the "Greed is Good" newsletter added insult to injury, the disgruntled mood turned into open rebellion. Only then a big part of the players realized that development spent on WiS was badly invested dev time and damaging the spaceship part of the game. It's only then when being fiercely opposed to WiS became fashionable.
I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it.
Yes, I do feel bad about it.
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
21899
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Posted - 2016.12.08 19:10:38 -
[161] - Quote
CCP Soundwave in that internal newsletter was probably who most of people remember.
He was like "I would buy that golden ammo for a dollar. Bring it on"
Then he moved to Riot Games, anybody knows Is he still working there?
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò =ƒÜÇ
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
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Stevn Thomas
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2016.12.08 19:48:54 -
[162] - Quote
Orakkus wrote:I'll add my two cents in here even though I'll probably be parroting what a lot of folks said.
The biggest problem was that CCP put time into WiS when there were VERY serious problems going on with the overall game. And back then, the devs were way less willing to listen to players and there were many seriously broken aspects to the game. Minmatar, for example, had like two or three ungodly outstanding ships, but the rest were near useless, Typhoons required 3x the number of skillpoints as any other battleship just to be as effective as any other battleship, etc. Things were really, really bad. Essentially players were playing in spite of the devs, who at the time lacked the ability to understand how things were actually be done in game.. and some had not played the game in months. I still remember the fight over projectiles and how it took nearly a year before the dev in charge of balancing was forced to admit that we were right.
There were a lot of issues and then when Incarna was released.. none of these were addressed on top of the fact that while the character creator was top notch (even now), all you could do was walk from your dock to your room. You couldn't even visit other people in station. I personally was in favor of WiS, but I have to agree.. without any useful content attached to it.. it was pointless to even push it. Actualy there were a few who had actualy never played the game working there.
For that mater it was surprising how often the people on Sisi could see just how ****** up things were in development, and actualy spelled out how and why something was broken, and then watch as broken crap was shoved in anyway.
A few examples
Akita t pointing out that shoving out an expansion with PI code disabled would mean that people would be able to buy underpriced end products from npcs and make rediculous profits
Several people pointing out that due to all the physics prossesing and rendering tied to the new models and environments, how manny YEARS it would take for graphics cards to catch up to allow real time rendering of a normal number of avatars on screen, let alone that betrayal sceen in the Dust trailer, but no there were going to be rolling out more and more actual WIS content with each expansion... |
Zimmy Zeta
Lisa Needs Braces.
59832
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Posted - 2016.12.08 19:54:35 -
[163] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:CCP Soundwave in that internal newsletter was probably who most of people remember. He was like "I would buy that golden ammo for a dollar. Bring it on" Then he moved to Riot Games, anybody knows Is he still working there?
Just found him on twitter- he's still with Riot Games: https://twitter.com/ktouborg?lang=de
I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it.
Yes, I do feel bad about it.
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Stevn Thomas
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2016.12.08 20:18:54 -
[164] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:CCP Soundwave in that internal newsletter was probably who most of people remember. He was like "I would buy that golden ammo for a dollar. Bring it on" Then he moved to Riot Games, anybody knows Is he still working there? Just found him on twitter- he's still with Riot Games: https://twitter.com/ktouborg?lang=de I find it amusing that there is currently two layers of management between him and the current lead producers there.
That said from everything I have heard he is very good at his job.
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eveyn
19
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Posted - 2016.12.08 20:25:24 -
[165] - Quote
It's not so much that I am against walking in stations as it is more that I am for moon walking in stations. Though it is a fine line, a line it is nonetheless. |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2561
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Posted - 2016.12.08 23:10:15 -
[166] - Quote
So CCP tried to leverage an nVidia technology demo to build a Vampire game. That went nowhere and to try and stop the Eve community from complaining about taking resources away from Eve to chase this dead end CCP promised awesome WIS. What they delivered was the Captains Time Out room. The most resource intensive single player feature free MMORPG in history. The real bottom line is other than RPG types of distractions (don't get me wrong, I would love those!) no one has ever figured out a real way to make WIS add any interesting game play to Eve.
I fought for a long time for WIS and finally have given up. I'd much rather see CCP figure out things like comets or a real booster drug dealer role finally making black market making smuggling a real trade.
I don't ever expect to see that door in my Captain's jail open although I'd be happy if it would and just flood my cell with poisonous gas! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
18235
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Posted - 2016.12.08 23:51:31 -
[167] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote: I fought for a long time for WIS and finally have given up. I'd much rather see CCP figure out things like comets or a real booster drug dealer role finally making black market making smuggling a real trade.
Hey baby, it's all legal now, Free your mind.
"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."
Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
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Hal Morsh
Hmmzor. Muffins of Mayhem
567
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Posted - 2016.12.09 00:03:18 -
[168] - Quote
mkint wrote:The best anyone can come up with is vague "because I want to see what it'll look like."
http://scr3.golem.de/screenshots/0811/EveOnline_Walking-in-Stations/WiS_screen_18.jpg
We sure do.
Being sapient can drive us mad.
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mkint
1290
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Posted - 2016.12.09 02:29:49 -
[169] - Quote
The most expensive to make, lowest return pr0n ever.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
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Gogela
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3371
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Posted - 2016.12.09 03:18:29 -
[170] - Quote
mkint wrote:The most expensive to make, lowest return pr0n ever. BRING BACK PLEASURE HUBS CCP! DO WHAT'S RIGHT!
Signatures should be used responsibly...
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Dyllan Ybrex
Sanguis Inceptum
2
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Posted - 2016.12.09 03:27:04 -
[171] - Quote
Snyzer Erata wrote:I'm new here. I have talked about "walking in stations" with some people in the game and the old players seem to be against it. Could someone explain to me exactly why this is such a bad idea? It seems simple to implement and would increase the immersion of the game.
Once upon a time...
CCP used walking in stations to test code for another game they were developing, World of Darkness Online. EVE players had been given a taste of walking in stations earlier, on what looked like a less graphic intensive engine. That lesser iteration was scraped in favor of using EVE players as play testers for the code for WoDO. This play test was released as an entire expansion, which kind of sucked after players had been told for quite a while that problems with ships and balance and stuff would be held off until after this expansion.
To put it plainly, this expansion sucked. You could only walk around in your cabin, all cabins looked like the Minmatar cabin, and you had to be in your cabin if docked. There was no station spinning. Many people's computers could not handle the cabin. Many people were pissed that EVE had been ignored in favor of this new game, and that now they were play testing material meant for another game. People were super pissed.
There were other foibles on behalf of CCP that exasperated this. Two hundred dollar cosmetic items, other features that players hated, etc. But mostly it is because players felt that the game they were paying for was being ignored in favor of a game they didn't care about.
There was a huge in game riot, people were really pissed, CCP finally woke up when the torches and pitchforks were at the castle gate (in game) and relented. Since then WiS as a topic for development is toxic and never touched upon, and WoD was eventually scrapped (a shame, I would have liked to play it).
So, we have what we have now. A useless cabin, very nice looking player character portraits that don't quite look as cool as the old ones (the old one's were weird and had more customization for free), and we all try and move forward from the time CCP almost self destructed their own company and the game we like.
This is EVE.
> "I find it hard to believe that the notoriously incompetent DED investigators managed to solve this 'mystery' in such a short time" ~ Omir Sarikusa
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
21958
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Posted - 2016.12.09 07:49:08 -
[172] - Quote
mkint wrote:The most expensive to make, lowest return pr0n ever. You have not seen everything.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò =ƒÜÇ
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ Osprey
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mkint
1291
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Posted - 2016.12.09 13:47:47 -
[173] - Quote
Maybe that's why WIS was so bad and took so long... it's hard to code with 1 hand.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
21976
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Posted - 2016.12.09 14:00:10 -
[174] - Quote
mkint wrote:Maybe that's why WIS was so bad and took so long... it's hard to code with 1 hand. I suspect that even when they would use their dicks, it would be faster.
But to be serious, scraping work after spending so much resources on it would "slowly" kill every project (similarly to situation with WoD).
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò =ƒÜÇ
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ Osprey
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Cutter Isaacson
wiggle Tech. Pandamimic Legion
3169
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Posted - 2016.12.20 14:13:29 -
[175] - Quote
You know, I'd really like an interactive, 3D, VIVE compatible add-on that allows for real time fleet management. Imagine being able to slip on your headset and see the battlefield. Be able to drag and drop ships into fleets which would then either warp pilots to each other or send a command to do so, and then be able to drag and drop those fleets to systems. Integrate it with cynosural fields and bam, a proper fleet commander. Super sexy, and functional, especially for null sec alliances. Heck, Vive group chats with fleet sub-commanders would be ultra super sexy.
"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
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Josef Djugashvilis
3502
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Posted - 2016.12.20 15:01:35 -
[176] - Quote
At the time WiS was first suggested, most of the 'pro' folk seemed to want the ability to gamble in stations as the primary aim.
This alone was and continues to be my main objection to WiS.
I have never understood why CCP seems to think that exposing 13 year old children to gambling in any form is acceptable.
Raise the age to play Eve to 18 and folk should be allowed to gamble all day long if they so desire.
This is not a signature.
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Zimmy Zeta
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
59934
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Posted - 2016.12.20 17:36:33 -
[177] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:You know, I'd really like an interactive, 3D, VIVE compatible add-on that allows for real time fleet management. Imagine being able to slip on your headset and see the battlefield. Be able to drag and drop ships into fleets which would then either warp pilots to each other or send a command to do so, and then be able to drag and drop those fleets to systems. Integrate it with cynosural fields and bam, a proper fleet commander. Super sexy, and functional, especially for null sec alliances. Heck, Vive group chats with fleet sub-commanders would be ultra super sexy.
That actually sounds awesome.
I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it.
Yes, I do feel bad about it.
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Pix Severus
Empty You
5391
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Posted - 2016.12.20 17:40:21 -
[178] - Quote
Hot.
MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - Dec 20 2016 - The Damsel
MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide
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Cutter Isaacson
wiggle Tech. Pandamimic Legion
3170
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Posted - 2016.12.20 17:45:07 -
[179] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:You know, I'd really like an interactive, 3D, VIVE compatible add-on that allows for real time fleet management. Imagine being able to slip on your headset and see the battlefield. Be able to drag and drop ships into fleets which would then either warp pilots to each other or send a command to do so, and then be able to drag and drop those fleets to systems. Integrate it with cynosural fields and bam, a proper fleet commander. Super sexy, and functional, especially for null sec alliances. Heck, Vive group chats with fleet sub-commanders would be ultra super sexy. That actually sounds awesome.
I'm going to mock something up over Christmas, see what CCP think of it.
"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
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Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
71
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Posted - 2016.12.20 18:58:17 -
[180] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:At the time WiS was first suggested, most of the 'pro' folk seemed to want the ability to gamble in stations as the primary purpose.
This alone was and continues to be my main objection to WiS.
I have never understood why CCP seems to think that exposing 13 year old children to gambling in any form is acceptable.
Raise the age to play Eve to 18 and folk should be allowed to gamble all day long if they so desire.
CCP does not set the ESRB rating for the game... the ESRB does that, a completely seperate entity. And the ESRB as a rule does not monitor or rate player interactions as part of their rating system. only the game mechanics themselves.
Additionally simulated gambling (using IG currency) only gets a game a teen rating, (13+). in order to merit an AO (18+) rating the gambling would have to be for real life money. something ccp would never allow because that is a legal landmine.
If you think that exposing children to gambling in "any form" is acceptable, then you are talking to the wrong company, because it is not CCP who set the rating for the game, and it is pretty clear from their promotion, style, etc, that they do not actively court the under 18 demographic, even if they are technically allowed to play.
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