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4Rum Alt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.11.24 15:37:28 -
[1] - Quote
Again Eve is all about balance and counters. A cyno is instant where nothing else in eve is instant, not even jumping thru a gate is instant. So why does the cyno still remain instant? The cyno needs to be giving a timer, even if its just a 5 sec timer. In a game of balance and counters there is no counter to a cyno hotdrop. There is no time for a reaction, which makes it unbalanced. You can't even lock the cyno ship and destroy it before a cyno is up. My proposal is to add some sort of timer to a cyno, from the time it is activated to the time it actually sends the signal to the awaiting ships. I think covert cyno 5 secs and regular cyno 10 secs is a good starting point. |
Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Ripoff Works
431
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Posted - 2016.11.24 16:53:17 -
[2] - Quote
There is a counter. Mobile cyno inhibitors. That said, sometimes you can snipe the cyno ship (if it's a small frigate) before anything gets through. |
Iain Cariaba
3286
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Posted - 2016.11.24 18:54:03 -
[3] - Quote
There's also regular cyno inhibitors, those protect entire systems from regular cynos, but not covert cynos.
Also, post with your main.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4983
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Posted - 2016.11.24 19:01:57 -
[4] - Quote
I think you should post with your main.
And also explain why.
And also search the damn forums to see how many times this has been proposed. |
4Rum Alt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.11.24 19:50:45 -
[5] - Quote
This is my main forum posting toon. Why do all other mods that have something to do with a cyno, including the cyno inhibitor have a timer to make it work? Why should a cyno be instant? You guys do no want a challenge or equal odds fights. There is no challenge in hotdropping a 10 man cap fleet with a 60 man cap fleet. Its like a basketball game, the other team have 5 players and you bring 30 players and put on the court at the same time. You could literally put 6 of your players on each one of theirs. Then you say stop whining and just play, we are just better than you. You are so afraid to lose that you will only play with the odds stacked in your favor and then don't want any rules changed that might unstack or god forbid even the odds. You already have 10 times the personal, then still want the rules in your favor. You guys play the game on easy, then brag about how good you are. You are the ones that have no balls. One of my friends would play the playstation, buy one of those adventure games, say Resident Evil. Put the settings to easy, beat the game in a few days then brag about how he beat the game in 3 days. Or how about my nephew would play me in madden, but go and raise all of his players stats to 99. Then have to nerve to brag about beating someone. I do not mind losing, but damn give me a straight up fade, don't bring 50 of your friends, jump me from out the bushes, then brag about how you beat my ass. |
Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
2981
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Posted - 2016.11.24 20:09:10 -
[6] - Quote
4Rum Alt wrote:This is my main forum posting toon. Why do all other mods that have something to do with a cyno, including the cyno inhibitor have a timer to make it work? Why should a cyno be instant? You guys do no want a challenge or equal odds fights. There is no challenge in hotdropping a 10 man cap fleet with a 60 man cap fleet. Its like a basketball game, the other team have 5 players and you bring 30 players and put on the court at the same time. You could literally put 6 of your players on each one of theirs. Then you say stop whining and just play, we are just better than you. You are so afraid to lose that you will only play with the odds stacked in your favor and then don't want any rules changed that might unstack or god forbid even the odds. You already have 10 times the personal, then still want the rules in your favor. You guys play the game on easy, then brag about how good you are. You are the ones that have no balls. One of my friends would play the playstation, buy one of those adventure games, say Resident Evil. Put the settings to easy, beat the game in a few days then brag about how he beat the game in 3 days. Or how about my nephew would play me in madden, but go and raise all of his players stats to 99. Then have to nerve to brag about beating someone. I do not mind losing, but damn give me a straight up fade, don't bring 50 of your friends, jump me from out the bushes, then brag about how you beat my ass.
Adding a timer to cyno will not lead to equal fight it will lead to no fight. You don't know what is on the other side of that upcoming cyno so the only good answer will always be GTFO if you can. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4983
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Posted - 2016.11.24 20:17:30 -
[7] - Quote
...Why do you think only the big groups benefit from cynos? Who do you think hotdrops our ratters, jump freighters and cyno beacons?
Hell. Last year there was a guy in mordus angels, a 1500 man group, who killed cfc/imperium (a ~30k man group) jump freighters almost every single day.
By hotdropping them.
You'd nerf one of the best tools a smaller group has to hurt a bigger group with a change like this. I don't think that's a good idea. |
Sitting Bull Lakota
SBL Co
230
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Posted - 2016.11.24 20:17:34 -
[8] - Quote
4Rum Alt wrote: You guys do no want a challenge or equal odds fights. You do not want to have any risk at all to your precious isk/hr.
See? I can make ridiculous over-generalizations about you too. |
Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Ripoff Works
436
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Posted - 2016.11.24 23:37:04 -
[9] - Quote
Eve Online
Fair fights
Pick one...
Alternatively, if in Eve Online, you find yourself in a fair fight, you're either in a tournament, or you've done something horribly wrong.
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Iain Cariaba
3286
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Posted - 2016.11.24 23:40:57 -
[10] - Quote
Arden Elenduil wrote:Eve Online
Fair fights
Pick one...
Alternatively, if in Eve Online, you find yourself in a fair fight, you're either in a tournament, or you've done something horribly wrong.
FTFY
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3309
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Posted - 2016.11.25 07:44:48 -
[11] - Quote
Arden Elenduil wrote:Eve Online
Fair fights
Pick one...
Alternatively, if in Eve Online, you find yourself in a fair fight, you're either in a tournament, or you've done something horribly wrong.
every fight in eve is a fair fight and they all started the first time you logged in
BLOPS Hauler
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Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
175
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Posted - 2016.11.25 08:47:10 -
[12] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:...Why do you think only the big groups benefit from cynos? Who do you think hotdrops our ratters, jump freighters and cyno beacons?
Hell. Last year there was a guy in mordus angels, a 1500 man group, who killed cfc/imperium (a ~30k man group) jump freighters almost every single day.
By hotdropping them.
You'd nerf one of the best tools a smaller group has to hurt a bigger group with a change like this. I don't think that's a good idea.
That-¦s only right when it comes to hotdropping jumpfreighter / ratters. Which should not be the main factor for balancing stuff.
A short summary:
- Cyno instant
- Cyno jammer 30 min warm up
- Mobile cyno inhibitor 5 min warm up.
To make them more balanced make the same time for all (chose the time of your need). |
Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
175
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Posted - 2016.11.25 10:34:58 -
[13] - Quote
Arden Elenduil wrote:There is a counter. Mobile cyno inhibitors. That said, sometimes you can snipe the cyno ship (if it's a small frigate) before anything gets through.
And with this statement you proof that you never read the descripton of the Mobile cyno inhibitor. 2 min activation timer is no real counter.
When a cyno goes up and you get blobbed mostly of all times after 2 min-¦s the fight is over for about 1.5 min.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3309
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Posted - 2016.11.25 10:38:50 -
[14] - Quote
Tabyll Altol wrote:Arden Elenduil wrote:There is a counter. Mobile cyno inhibitors. That said, sometimes you can snipe the cyno ship (if it's a small frigate) before anything gets through. And with this statement you proof that you never read the descripton of the Mobile cyno inhibitor. 2 min activation timer is no real counter. When a cyno goes up and you get blobbed mostly of all times after 2 min-¦s the fight is over for about 1.5 min.
you need to put it down BEFORE you need it. they are preventative tools not reaction tools. that's what keeps them balanced. you add a timer to a cyno and no one is going to use them except people who already control the battle field thus defeating the point of the cyno
BLOPS Hauler
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Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
175
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Posted - 2016.11.25 10:53:03 -
[15] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Tabyll Altol wrote:Arden Elenduil wrote:There is a counter. Mobile cyno inhibitors. That said, sometimes you can snipe the cyno ship (if it's a small frigate) before anything gets through. And with this statement you proof that you never read the descripton of the Mobile cyno inhibitor. 2 min activation timer is no real counter. When a cyno goes up and you get blobbed mostly of all times after 2 min-¦s the fight is over for about 1.5 min. you need to put it down BEFORE you need it. they are preventative tools not reaction tools. that's what keeps them balanced. you add a timer to a cyno and no one is going to use them except people who already control the battle field thus defeating the point of the cyno
So i will put a 60 Million (Jita buy) module up which have a range of 200 km and have to wait 2 min until i can start charging in. This could be realistiv in smallscale battles. Every fight (with more than 20 dudes on each side) would pop it in notime (170k ehp). Or the cyno just warps to a ping (takes about 20-30 sec).
And for all that you can-¦t scoope it back. Yes and because this module is so good balanced it is used so often. Wait oh no it-¦s almost useless.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3309
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Posted - 2016.11.25 12:05:08 -
[16] - Quote
Tabyll Altol wrote:
The problem of the cyno is not that it-¦s instant, the problem is that 1 ship could cyno in a 255 man super fleet in 1-10 sec. What-¦s your aproach for balancing that !
That-¦s the broken part !
but that part isn't broken and in fact you could say it is one of the most eve things in eve. 1 ship literally able to turn the tide of battle in an instant.
If this is not a mechanic you want to play with you can go to HS, sov null and set up a jamer or play in WH. if you don't want to do that and still want to avoid Cynos then fly smart. mark cyno pilots/ corps that regularly use them, avoid engaging common cyno ships. Remember if you are on grid with a cyno you were the one dumb enough to get yourself into that situation
as some one who does a lot with small fleets/gangs cynos are essential to letting us hit above our weight and force our opponints into fights they would not otherwise take.
i'm not sure you know just how much effort it takes to get those 255 people into ships ready to jump to a cyno or how difficult it is to keep their attention to ensure that as few as possible are afk when they are needed. the cyno isn't just a magic "poof spaceship" button there is a lot of background work and pre-planning that goes into organizing those fleets.
BLOPS Hauler
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Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
175
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Posted - 2016.11.25 12:32:11 -
[17] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Tabyll Altol wrote:
The problem of the cyno is not that it-¦s instant, the problem is that 1 ship could cyno in a 255 man super fleet in 1-10 sec. What-¦s your aproach for balancing that !
That-¦s the broken part !
but that part isn't broken and in fact you could say it is one of the most eve things in eve. 1 ship literally able to turn the tide of battle in an instant. If this is not a mechanic you want to play with you can go to HS, sov null and set up a jamer or play in WH. if you don't want to do that and still want to avoid Cynos then fly smart. mark cyno pilots/ corps that regularly use them, avoid engaging common cyno ships. Remember if you are on grid with a cyno you were the one dumb enough to get yourself into that situation as some one who does a lot with small fleets/gangs cynos are essential to letting us hit above our weight and force our opponints into fights they would not otherwise take. i'm not sure you know just how much effort it takes to get those 255 people into ships ready to jump to a cyno or how difficult it is to keep their attention to ensure that as few as possible are afk when they are needed. the cyno isn't just a magic "poof spaceship" button there is a lot of background work and pre-planning that goes into organizing those fleets.
I know that it-¦s not that easy to get a 255 man Super/titan fleet. No cyno-¦s were there (before capitals could take gates) to move capitals. The broken thin (in my opinion) is that they can stay safe until the fc needs them. The don-¦t have to do anything in the battle and can be ongrid in less then 5 sec. And this in a game where most things take time. If you travel via gates the same route i could take you up to 1 h.
Super/titan fleet are the current i win button (if large enough). They could be beaten isk wise with many counterdreads or surprise a larger superfleet.
I don-¦t say the should not be powerful but at least the user should commit to the fight (bringing in the supers before for warping) or cyno them in slow. The bigger party would still win but the effort is then bigger than now and takes travel time (like e.g. Battleship-¦s after the warps speed change).
To your arguments:
- The one ship could also change the whole battle but he could not send the whole superfleet in at once he warp on a safe and they jump in there. The difference would be the time needed.
- I want to improve the machanik to an more balanced thing. If you don-¦t want it play in HS/LS/WH is a bad argument, everybody cried about fozzy sov and now many people realize that it actually works better than last sov (in my opinon).
- The effort for supers/titans are the same as for normal fleet but some points are more relevant:
Ping --> form fleet --> warp to a meeting point (mostly keepstar/Fortizar) --> wait on call.
When your fleetmembers don-¦t attend to orders thats no reason for not changing a game mechanics.
Hope you try to see the things from a different view or at least try. I would also try to understand your position but please in a neutral view not a "I-¦m in the biggest superblob and want to keep my easy kills" view.
still for the idea
+1 |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3310
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Posted - 2016.11.25 13:02:51 -
[18] - Quote
Tabyll Altol wrote: but please in a neutral view not a "I-¦m in the biggest superblob and want to keep my easy kills" view.
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: as some one who does a lot with small fleets/gangs cynos are essential to letting us hit above our weight and force our opponints into fights they would not otherwise take.
and sure the ships are free from harm b4 they jump in but after they are much harder to evac than sub caps particularly after fatigue
the go to a different area of space is a valid argument that is why they have different rules so that you can play how you want
BLOPS Hauler
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Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Ripoff Works
440
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Posted - 2016.11.25 13:21:54 -
[19] - Quote
Tabyll Altol wrote:Arden Elenduil wrote:There is a counter. Mobile cyno inhibitors. That said, sometimes you can snipe the cyno ship (if it's a small frigate) before anything gets through. And with this statement you proof that you never read the descripton of the Mobile cyno inhibitor. 2 min activation timer is no real counter. When a cyno goes up and you get blobbed mostly of all times after 2 min-¦s the fight is over for about 1.5 min.
Please point out on the doll where the evil PL cyno touched you |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1070
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Posted - 2016.11.25 15:13:33 -
[20] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Also, post with your main.
Danika Princip wrote:I think you should post with your main. Why? Posting with a main was the single biggest mistake I ever made in EvE. |
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James Zimmer
D3RP Clan Elemental Tide
58
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Posted - 2016.11.25 15:29:45 -
[21] - Quote
Going back to the OP. I agree, cyno's are wildly unbalanced right now. I've been on both sides of a hotdrop, and personally find them to be very boring. The only real counter to a cyno is a counter cyno, or flying something kitey enough to never get locked down (with the exception of timers where there is a fixed place/time where the fight will be going down). This isn't about fair fights, it's about game balance. If you get to bypass entire systems using this mechanic, there needs to be some downsides to using it as well. Jump fatigue is there, but it's not really sufficient and almost everyone hates it to a degree.
A short activation timer, like the OP suggested would be an extremely mild (and in my opinion, insufficient) downside to using a cyno. I would prefer to see longer delays, and different sizes of cynos with mass limits based on size. If you want to bring a dread on field to light your cyno, by all means, bring the entire world in, if you're only willing to commit a frigate, maybe not so much. It's all about risk and reward, and right now when it comes to cynos, there's too much reward for too little risk. |
4Rum Alt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2016.11.27 19:04:29 -
[22] - Quote
Ok, how about since a cyno can be fit to basically any ship with hardly no skills and is instant. Make the cyno inhibitor also a ship mod that can be fit to basically any ship with hardly no skills to use and it also be instant. Instantly light a cyno, instantly have a cyno inhibitor also lit. Should be the same exact rules as a cyno. once its lit you cannot move and has a 5 min timer. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3316
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Posted - 2016.11.28 03:00:17 -
[23] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:Also, post with your main. Danika Princip wrote:I think you should post with your main. Why? Posting with a main was the single biggest mistake I ever made in EvE.
because if you are not willing to stand by what you believe why should we assume you really believe it
BLOPS Hauler
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Iain Cariaba
3310
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Posted - 2016.11.28 03:33:55 -
[24] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:Also, post with your main. Danika Princip wrote:I think you should post with your main. Why? Posting with a main was the single biggest mistake I ever made in EvE. If you're afraid of negative responses to what you have to say, perhaps you should rethink what you're saying.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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