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Luda Desekus
Spurious Tendencies
0
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Posted - 2016.11.29 09:22:58 -
[1] - Quote
Saved 100 mil bought a bunch of mods and some frigs to transport from JITA to another high sec near FW to start doing FW. I lost it all pop'd instantly it was fitted wrong.. an Iteron mark V. I'm in despair but I will go through this and learn.
Given the above and me looking around google (most fits are old) what is a good fit for an Iteron Mark V (I saw videos of the mwd/cloak trick) is this trick the best for my case? Any fits and recs would helpful. Thanks in advance |
Taurean Eltanin
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
41
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Posted - 2016.11.29 09:35:02 -
[2] - Quote
The thing is, T1 haulers are best used for high bulk, low value goods. Their tanks simply are not that good. And Jita is absolutely the worst place to try and get cheeky. Every ship is scanned down and considered as a possible target.
That said, I routinely haul values in that region in a T1 hauler. When I do, though, it tends to be very small items. I have perhaps one or two cargo extenders at max, and all my remaining lows, and all my mids are dedicated to upping my EHP. I can get to about 20k EHP without having to fit a heavy plate that would slow me down, but I often carry a few of those in the hold in case I have to move something even more valuable.
A higher number of lower value runs is usually better than one big one.
Good attitude, though. You'll get over this, especially once you start getting those FW LP rolling in.
If you like reading about low sec piracy or faction warfare, you might enjoy my blog.
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Keno Skir
1018
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Posted - 2016.11.29 09:36:46 -
[3] - Quote
How did it die?
Were you in lowsec or at war perhaps? Gank?
<Gùï> 250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <Gùï>
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Thursday Park-Laine
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2016.11.29 09:42:48 -
[4] - Quote
The fit is bad, but you don't get ganked when you only haul a few million ISK around, I do it all the time. What got you killed was the skill extractor in your cargo, that thing made it worth the gank. |
gfldex
799
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Posted - 2016.11.29 11:02:15 -
[5] - Quote
Luda Desekus wrote:Iteron Mark V
The best fit for any T1 hauler is the courier contract. There are various groups that will shift you stuff over night for a reasonable fee.
Those freighter services corps are not in the business of moving things. They are insurance companies.
If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
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Luda Desekus
Spurious Tendencies
0
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Posted - 2016.11.29 11:04:21 -
[6] - Quote
Thursday Park-Laine wrote:The fit is bad, but you don't get ganked when you only haul a few million ISK around, I do it all the time. What got you killed was the skill extractor in your cargo, that thing made it worth the gank.
True, a rookie's mistake. Next time I will damn sure to double check my cargo.
Thank you all for the response. I actually was able to move with ease some cargo using the MWD/cloak trick which I learned after my loss and watched videos of. This in addition to limiting my hold value to be 90m and lower seems to help so far. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the posing meat Snuffed Out
3716
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Posted - 2016.11.29 11:05:35 -
[7] - Quote
why were you hauling a skill extractor?
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Baldy McNoHair
State War Academy Caldari State
21
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Posted - 2016.11.29 11:10:59 -
[8] - Quote
Luda Desekus wrote:Saved 100 mil bought a bunch of mods and some frigs to transport from JITA to another high sec near FW to start doing FW. I lost it all pop'd instantly it was fitted wrong.. an Iteron mark V. I'm in despair but I will go through this and learn.
Given the above and me looking around google (most fits are old) what is a good fit for an Iteron Mark V (I saw videos of the mwd/cloak trick) is this trick the best for my case? Any fits and recs would helpful. Thanks in advance
So, why do you pack 100 mil isk in a ship that can be taken down with a 2 mil destroyer? :) |
gfldex
799
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Posted - 2016.11.29 11:11:25 -
[9] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:why were you hauling a skill extractor?
Because he didn't know they you can activate them remotely right from the assets window.
If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1730
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Posted - 2016.11.29 11:47:02 -
[10] - Quote
Small, high value, sexy items like a skill injector or PLEX are things that you don't want to carry around in an industrial with a bunch of other stuff. Items like that you move in something small and with very fast align times.
Of course as has been stated above there is not a need to move either of those items as they can be used remotely. But the above rule still holds true for things like BPOs and Overseers Effects etc... |
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Memphis Baas
2351
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Posted - 2016.11.29 13:41:39 -
[11] - Quote
For some background info, CCP has spent some time in the past re-tuning the ships to be better in performance; they called this "tiericide" and you'll probably hear the term being used. Industrials got changed to have specialized holds for ore, minerals, etc., and also each race got an industrial that has 200+ power grid, which means it can install some defenses.
The Iteron V has huge cargo space (if you fill the low slots with cargo expanders), and the specialized industrials have huge holds. But they all have 80-100 power grid, which severely limits the shield defenses that they can install to frigate-sized. Something to keep in mind, there's always a trade-off, you can have (some) defenses but not much cargo, or huge cargo but no defenses.
As indicated above, do not cram all you have into an undefended ship. This is a PVP game. As you've found out, your 5 million ISK industrial with 100 million ISK cargo can easily be killed by a 1 million ISK destroyer, and people WILL DO IT in the highest of high-sec, to get a chance at that sweet loot. For them, it's 5 minutes of work, 1 million ISK investment, 50 million ISK profit (approx. half your stuff survives the explosion).
Industrials use low slots for cargo expanders, so fit LARGE (oversized) shield extenders + shield hardeners in the med slots, and don't worry about shield repair. Your aim is to survive long enough for Concord to arrive and destroy the attacker, or to dock back in station, or to warp away, or to jump through the gate. Use all the available powergrid to fit a buffer tank on that industrial.
But more importantly, don't carry valuable stuff in it. Fill it up with Veldspar and nobody will care. If your ship can be destroyed by approx. 1 million ISK destroyer, and the chance of your stuff to survive is 50%, then carrying more than 3 million ISK in the cargo means you'll be attacked as soon as you undock.
Never transport PLEX, extractors, injectors, or outfits/costumes.
Always redeem CCP gifts, anything you purchase from the NEX store, and PLEX, extractors, and injectors, inside the Jita station so you don't have to transport them. PLEX and injectors can be used from anywhere.
Outfits / costumes, use character appearance customization to put them on, then fly to the destination, then use character customization to take them off. This way they won't drop if you get killed.
Skill books that you plan on using, just right-click and inject them, that way they're in your character sheet and can't drop as loot.
Anything else that's small and valuable, use the best defended COMBAT ship that you can pilot to transport them. Typically a cruiser or T2 heavy-attack cruiser will have very good resistances and defenses, which means they have to bring a larger force to chew through all the shields or armor before Concord arrives. It's not impossible, but it does mean that you can carry slightly more valuable stuff before it becomes worth killing your ship.
Otherwise, for complete safety, use a courier contract. Ask for enough ISK as collateral to more than pay for the item, and thus make suicide-ganking someone else's problem; if they die you still get paid the full ISK value of what you lost. |
Memphis Baas
2351
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Posted - 2016.11.29 13:44:54 -
[12] - Quote
Oh, and frigates are sold everywhere. Find the (smaller) trade hub near your forward FW base. No need to buy from Jita. |
Francis Raven
ExDominion Evictus.
51
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Posted - 2016.11.29 13:56:37 -
[13] - Quote
From the zkillboard report, it looks like you were simply transporting too much isk value compared to your ship.
Gankers will look at the value of your itty V, the value of their ship (in this case a T1 tornado) and the value of your cargo. At nearly 500m isk worth of product being hauled, it made perfect sense for them to lose their ship compared to what you were hauling.
In this case, the isk-ration was in their favor.
To recommend things to improve - Dont ever haul injectors/extractors and plex. - Just because you can fit it in your cargohold doesnt mean you should. Look at the estimated isk value for the product in your hold and dont let it creep too high. - If you are going to transport expensive loads anyways, stay clear of Jita, Amarr, Dodixie, Renz and Hek. Campers will scan ships coming out of the station and see what you are carrying. They will make a split-second decision as to whether its worth it or not to gank you, and poof, youre toast.
Good attitude. Pick on some gangsta rap and get back on the grind. Keep going.
ExDominion | Nullsec Corporation | Website | Forums | Established Nov. 2015 |
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Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
1095
|
Posted - 2016.11.29 13:57:55 -
[14] - Quote
Luda Desekus wrote:Thursday Park-Laine wrote:The fit is bad, but you don't get ganked when you only haul a few million ISK around, I do it all the time. What got you killed was the skill extractor in your cargo, that thing made it worth the gank. True, a rookie's mistake. Next time I will damn sure to double check my cargo. Thank you all for the response. I actually was able to move with ease some cargo using the MWD/cloak trick which I learned after my loss and watched videos of. This in addition to limiting my hold value to be 90m and lower seems to help so far.
You, Sir, have a splendid attitude. You'll fit in quite well around here.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
821
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Posted - 2016.11.29 16:17:32 -
[15] - Quote
First, fit some sort of tank, but more importantly, grab a frigate and make instadock and instaundock bookmarks at every station you haul to or from. Warping to a station doesn't get you exactly to it, so create a bookmark at 0 on the station. Set the station as your destination and warp to your bookmark. After hitting warp, turn on autopilot (the only time it's OK to autopilot) you will dock instantly and not allow anyone the couple seconds they normally have to shoot you. Then take your frigate and undock. Don't change direction, just turn on your MWD and burn in a straight line until you are far enough away that you can warp. Make a bookmark there. When you undock, warp to that bookmark first, as you can instantly warp to it given you are already aligned.
Doing those minor things makes it much more difficult to be caught like you were. |
Amon Santos
Dot.Inc TRUE VINE
1
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Posted - 2016.11.29 16:30:36 -
[16] - Quote
I too lost a Iteron some time ago, hauling valuable cargo. To move implants and other low volume high isk cargo, now i use like a very fast warp align frigate. Hard to lock, and gives passive freak voyeurs at gates / stations few time to "scan".
No armour will save your from a scram / bump gank group...try to make them harder do spy (harder, not impossible) |
Hrist Harkonnen
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2016.11.29 19:23:03 -
[17] - Quote
Luda Desekus wrote:Saved 100 mil bought a bunch of mods and some frigs to transport from JITA to another high sec near FW to start doing FW. I lost it all pop'd instantly it was fitted wrong.. an Iteron mark V. I'm in despair but I will go through this and learn.
Given the above and me looking around google (most fits are old) what is a good fit for an Iteron Mark V (I saw videos of the mwd/cloak trick) is this trick the best for my case? Any fits and recs would helpful. Thanks in advance
The trick is to carry cheap stuff on T1 industrials. If you carry anything above 20mil ISK i would say you are doing it wrong.
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Bobb Bobbington
Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects
355
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Posted - 2016.11.29 21:10:37 -
[18] - Quote
Hrist Harkonnen wrote:Luda Desekus wrote:Saved 100 mil bought a bunch of mods and some frigs to transport from JITA to another high sec near FW to start doing FW. I lost it all pop'd instantly it was fitted wrong.. an Iteron mark V. I'm in despair but I will go through this and learn.
Given the above and me looking around google (most fits are old) what is a good fit for an Iteron Mark V (I saw videos of the mwd/cloak trick) is this trick the best for my case? Any fits and recs would helpful. Thanks in advance The trick is to carry cheap stuff on T1 industrials. If you carry anything above 20mil ISK i would say you are doing it wrong.
Lol, I took 1.5b of compressed ore straight through Niarja unscouted once in an untanked t1 gallentee ore hauler because I was still training the skills for the t2 one.
You just have to know what you're doing.
That being said, newbeans should definitely stick to low value m3. I think the rule of thumb is like no more than 3m per 1k ehp, so you shouldn't be able to get more than 30m in a t1 hauler.
This is a signature.
It has a 25m signature.
No it's not a cosmic signature.
Probably.
Btw my corp's recruiting.
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Chainsaw Plankton
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
2323
|
Posted - 2016.11.29 21:46:39 -
[19] - Quote
itty 5 is the high volume low hp gallente hauler. Consider flying the nereus, It hauls less but it aligns and warps faster, plus can be fit for a decent tank. Also it has plenty of fitting room so you can mwd+cloak easily.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Luda Desekus
Spurious Tendencies
5
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Posted - 2016.11.29 22:02:59 -
[20] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:itty 5 is the high volume low hp gallente hauler. Consider flying the nereus, It hauls less but it aligns and warps faster, plus can be fit for a decent tank. Also it has plenty of fitting room so you can mwd+cloak easily.
Yess! Exactly what I got and what I'm using :D
Now this begs a new question. Are the T2 variants are similar to Nereus just more haul potential and can use cloak more efficiently? haven't check in-game at work at the moment. From the looks of it I don't even need T2 (Transport Ships) since the method of travel/escape is similar to Nereus unless I'm missing something... (ex: crane) |
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Erin Oswell
Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance
46
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Posted - 2016.11.30 00:51:03 -
[21] - Quote
Alternatively you could pay a haulage corp to move your stuff for you and let them worry about any potential losses with the collateral, if you were doing it that way I'd buy a whole bunch of ships and have that moved with your stuff since you'll die a lot in FW lol.
Basically any hauler will get extra attention from gankers, the bigger the juicier. Using a cloaky variant would def be an option for you, or a jump freighter if you have the skills and a friend/alt with cyno. You should absolutely fit at least two or three stsbs too!
Rules of Acquisition #13: "Anything worth doing is worth doing for money"
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erg cz
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
531
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Posted - 2016.11.30 08:50:27 -
[22] - Quote
Dont transport frigs. Build them. Their BPO are dirt cheap and it is always pain to transport even 20 frigs... Buy BPO, afk mine or buy minerals and build your ships in the nearest station with factory.
Suggested MWD/cloak trick all the way, skip iteron and skill Mastodon, if you really need to carry large value stuff (like T2/T3 cruisers, for example). Use wreathe (or, better, prowler) to transport modules, ammo and drones
Or do not transport anything at all. Vllilirier is very well supplied market in the middle of the Gallente FW zone. Sure Caldari has their own as well.
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Rodrigo Dorgiers
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.12.01 00:22:51 -
[23] - Quote
I have a couple of relevant questions:
1. Does the total worth of what you're hauling matter, or is it the isk/m3 instead? What if you're carrying a huge volume of ammo or something like that? Would it discourage gankers if they can't fit your drop in their ship?
2. How do gankers take the stuff? Don't they get blown up by CONCORD? Isn't it a risk to them that someone else will steal the stuff instead? |
Rei Y
Minmatar Citizen 90483936 Corporation
2
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Posted - 2016.12.01 01:28:28 -
[24] - Quote
Rodrigo Dorgiers wrote:I have a couple of relevant questions:
1. Does the total worth of what you're hauling matter, or is it the isk/m3 instead? What if you're carrying a huge volume of ammo or something like that? Would it discourage gankers if they can't fit your drop in their ship?
2. How do gankers take the stuff? Don't they get blown up by CONCORD? Isn't it a risk to them that someone else will steal the stuff instead?
1. my guess would be they usually have an equal-sized ship waiting. if they hunt industrials, they have one to pick up drop. if they gank freighters, they have one too. 2. the pilot(s) who did the gank will have a criminal timer on them and will get CONCORDed if they show up in space in anything but a pod, but they usually have an alt or a friend waiting nearby in a ship to pick the drop. they only get the suspect timer for doing that. |
Bobb Bobbington
Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects
356
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 01:35:52 -
[25] - Quote
Rodrigo Dorgiers wrote:I have a couple of relevant questions:
1. Does the total worth of what you're hauling matter, or is it the isk/m3 instead? What if you're carrying a huge volume of ammo or something like that? Would it discourage gankers if they can't fit your drop in their ship?
2. How do gankers take the stuff? Don't they get blown up by CONCORD? Isn't it a risk to them that someone else will steal the stuff instead?
In answer to 1, it's really the isk/ehp. For instance, if you were carrying 1b of cargo, they would likely gank it if it was a t1 industrial (easy and cheap to gank, 10k ehp) than a bulkhead fit freighter (~300k ehp). I believe the general rule of thumb is no more than 3-4 million per 1,000 ehp.
This is a signature.
It has a 25m signature.
No it's not a cosmic signature.
Probably.
Btw my corp's recruiting.
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Paranoid Loyd
9857
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Posted - 2016.12.01 01:36:08 -
[26] - Quote
Rodrigo Dorgiers wrote:I have a couple of relevant questions:
1. Does the total worth of what you're hauling matter, or is it the isk/m3 instead? What if you're carrying a huge volume of ammo or something like that? Would it discourage gankers if they can't fit your drop in their ship?
2. How do gankers take the stuff? Don't they get blown up by CONCORD? Isn't it a risk to them that someone else will steal the stuff instead? The value is all that matters. You can't successfully gank for profit without at least two accounts, most use three, hauler, ganker, scout.
"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix
Fix the Prospect!
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
11015
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 03:16:11 -
[27] - Quote
Here is a copy-paste from another thread where a newbie was suicide ganked. It should answer your first question OP.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6544374#post6544374
ShahFluffers wrote:Congrats as this is probably the worst-case scenario you will ever face in High-sec (besides War Declarations). Other situations you encounter in the future not be as fast paced as this.
Now... before I can explain what things you can do avoid this situation in the future, I need to explain how Suicide Ganking works.
The general idea behind Suicide ganking is to blow up a target ship before the NPC police arrive.
The NPC police, called CONCORD, will respond to any "illegal" act of aggression in high-security space (1.0 to 0.5 space). This response is purely punitive (the NPCs don't care about you, only making the offender pay for their craven act) and will result in the destruction of the offender's ship 100% of the time. Avoiding this punishment or delaying in any way is seen as an exploit and will result in a ban from the GMs.
More than that... there is no amount of tank that can mitigate the damage coming from CONCORD. These NPCs basically use a "death ray" to wipe out percentages of the offender's HP (alongside regular, "standard" damage).
Now... the response times for COCNORD are thus: - 5 seconds in 1.0 space - 6 seconds in 0.9 space - 8 seconds in 0.8 space - 10 seconds in 0.7 space - 13 seconds in 0.6 space - 15 seconds in 0.5 space - No response in 0.4 or lower space
What the Suicide Gankers do is choose a ship with high damage potential and max out that stat. Destroyer class ships are generally preferred, though they can use bigger ships if they want to take out tankier, more high value targets.
Let us use a Catalyst as an example as it is the preferred ship for most ganks (and the gankiest destroyer in general).
[Catalyst, Ganking Ship Example] Magnetic Field Stabilizer I Magnetic Field Stabilizer I Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
5MN Microwarpdrive I [empty med slot]
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I [empty rig slot]
With max skills applied and the weapons overloaded, this ship can pump out about 400 damage per second. Using the above response times, that is... - 2000 damage in 5 seconds in 1.0 space - 2400 damage in 6 seconds in 0.9 space - 3200 damage in 8 seconds in 0.8 space - 4000 damage in 10 seconds in 0.7 space - 5200 damage in 13 seconds in 0.6 space - 6000 damage in 15 seconds in 0.5 space
So your ship has to effectively tank that much damage, in that amount of time, in order to survive.
Now please bear in mind.... these numbers are all "upper limit" numbers. A ganker may do less damage if conditions are not optimal (which we will get into in a bit).
Now why do Suicide Gankers do this? Everyone has a reason, but they basically boil down to three things:
- For Profit: This type of ganker is generally selective and will attack people they think they can make a profit off of. They try to calculate the value of their gank ship(s) versus the value of the potential loot. If they can potentially break even or turn a profit, they will mobilize and make an attempt.
- Make a Statement: Some of your mining competitors may not be keen on "sharing" asteroid belts with you. They will thus nuke you (or hire someone to nuke you) and use your wreck to set an example to others.
- For Giggles: Some people simply want to see the world burn. Cost and/or political fallout are not factors to these kinds of gankers. And if you mobilize against them... well... they like that too. They basically want to make things explode for the sake of things exploding.
What can you do? There are a few things you can do. None of them are silver bullets, but they will stack the odds more in your favor.
- Tank your ship: As pointed out above, the gankers are trying to apply as much damage as possible in as short a time as possible. If you have more HP than they have damage (even 1 more HP can make a difference), you will survive. ------ The best tanks you can fit for this purpose are called "Buffer Tanks." The general idea is to load up on raw HP (see: Shield Extenders, Armor Plates) and increase your damage resistances (see: Adaptive Nano Plating, Shield Amplifiers). ------ "Active Tanking" is the act of fitting an Armor Repairer or Shield Booster to "repair" or "absorb" damage. This is generally not preferred against Suicide Ganking as it may not be fast enough to counter the amount of incoming damage
... (snip)...
- Don't AFK, use D-Scan: Not much to say about this. I know mining is boring and all that, but stay alert and keep an eye on your Directional Scanner for potential ganking ships (you will be scanning for destroyers within 1 AU of where you are).
- Get a tankier ship: Take a look at the Procurer. Gankers hate that ship.
- Get friends.
To answer your second question:
The gankers themselves cannot scoop any loot while they are criminally flagged (lasts for 15 minutes). Their solution to this problem is to throw manpower at it.
They get another person in another ship (usually a sufficiently large one) to grab the loot and warp off to a safe location (note: grabbing loot from a wreck that is not your own will turn your ship suspect... meaning anyone and everyone in the game can shoot you)
How did you Veterans start?
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Othran
Route One
743
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Posted - 2016.12.01 10:22:32 -
[28] - Quote
There's little point in hauling your own stuff around if you're solo(ish), just get the froggies to do it for you.
Red Frog for empire stuff, Black Frog for null/wormholes.
red-frog.org |
Hrist Harkonnen
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2016.12.01 12:56:17 -
[29] - Quote
Luda Desekus wrote:Saved 100 mil bought a bunch of mods and some frigs to transport from JITA to another high sec near FW to start doing FW. I lost it all pop'd instantly it was fitted wrong.. an Iteron mark V. I'm in despair but I will go through this and learn.
Given the above and me looking around google (most fits are old) what is a good fit for an Iteron Mark V (I saw videos of the mwd/cloak trick) is this trick the best for my case? Any fits and recs would helpful. Thanks in advance
Come on guys, when are you going to learn that T1 industrials were created to bait people into hauling expensive stuff for easy ganking/profit?
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