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Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2016.11.30 16:01:30 -
[1] - Quote
Say you have account #1 with a single character with 1 month Omega left on it. In account #2 you have a single character you want to add to account #1, Now you pay a PLEX to transfer account #2 character with 1 year of Omega on it into account #1. Does the Omega time left on account #2 move to account #1? Does account #1 following this transaction have 1 month of MCT and 1 year and 1 month of Omega (or just 1 year of Omega)? |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
46101
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Posted - 2016.11.30 16:02:59 -
[2] - Quote
Omega doesn't apply to characters. It applies to accounts.
The time stays exactly where it is.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2016.11.30 16:04:53 -
[3] - Quote
So if you want to consolidate accounts this is not possible? So, this would leave 1 account with 1 year of Omega and no characters? |
Stevn Thomas
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.11.30 16:09:42 -
[4] - Quote
Also you can only train one character at a time on a account.
There is literaly no point in transferring characters unless you just want to pay for a single account. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2762
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Posted - 2016.11.30 16:12:36 -
[5] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:So if you want to consolidate accounts this is not possible? So, this would leave 1 account with 1 year of Omega and no characters?
Er... sure, if you want to look at it that way (which is silly).
In the scenario you provided, it would clearly make more sense to transfer from account 1 (which only has a one month sub) to account 2 (which has a one year sub), as you said each account only has one character.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
46101
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Posted - 2016.11.30 16:16:15 -
[6] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:So if you want to consolidate accounts this is not possible? So, this would leave 1 account with 1 year of Omega and no characters? Sure. Wait to the end of the month of training left on account 1 and then transfer the character to account 2
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
825
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Posted - 2016.11.30 17:23:55 -
[7] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:So if you want to consolidate accounts this is not possible? So, this would leave 1 account with 1 year of Omega and no characters?
Train a new character on the one account for the rest of that year, the last day of your subscription extract all skillpoints and give them to your actual characters.
Or sell it on the bazaar.
Stevn Thomas wrote:There is literaly no point in transferring characters unless you just want to pay for a single account.
Not really. I spent a while training up specialized characters (hauling/industry) and they are now at the point where they don't need training queues. It's cheaper to run another account to train than to do multi-character training. After they have the skills I wanted, they are transferred to extra character slots. |
Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2016.11.30 17:58:32 -
[8] - Quote
Slightly different take, is there alpha MCT garnered for 2nd or third characters introduced to accounts? Seems like any character should be able to train up to alpha level without any cost... |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
46102
|
Posted - 2016.11.30 18:23:59 -
[9] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:Slightly different take, is there alpha MCT garnered for 2nd or third characters introduced to accounts? Seems like any character should be able to train up to alpha level without any cost... All characters on an omega account have access to all their skills, ships, etc.
Only 1 can train at a time unless multi character training is paid for.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2016.11.30 20:56:54 -
[10] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Zorn Cosby wrote:Slightly different take, is there alpha MCT garnered for 2nd or third characters introduced to accounts? Seems like any character should be able to train up to alpha level without any cost... All characters on an omega account have access to all their skills, ships, etc. Only 1 can train at a time unless multi character training is paid for.
Honestly I cannot see that this is fair and balanced. Alpha characters can gain sp in certain skills without the expenditure of a single penny, why should second characters on an Omega account be any different in earning those very same sp?
I personally believe that all additional characters on an Omega account should be able to earn sp without MCT as an Alpha account. Once the Alpha character has maxed their permitted sp levels, then moving beyond that should require either MCT or stopping sp gain on the other character associated with the account. |
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
46104
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Posted - 2016.11.30 20:59:57 -
[11] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Zorn Cosby wrote:Slightly different take, is there alpha MCT garnered for 2nd or third characters introduced to accounts? Seems like any character should be able to train up to alpha level without any cost... All characters on an omega account have access to all their skills, ships, etc. Only 1 can train at a time unless multi character training is paid for. Honestly I cannot see that this is fair and balanced. Alpha characters can gain sp in certain skills without the expenditure of a single penny, why should second characters on an Omega account be any different in earning those very same sp? I personally believe that all additional characters on an Omega account should be able to earn sp without MCT as an Alpha account. Once the Alpha character has maxed their permitted sp levels, then moving beyond that should require either MCT or stopping sp gain on the other character associated with the account. Well then, become an alpha I guess.
You'll train slower and are limited in what you can train, fly and use, but if you do t feel the benefit of an omega outweighs the cost, then you can create and alpha and train away.
No account, alpha or omega, has more than 1 training queue (and alphas don't have an unlimited queue). Omegas can pay to activate a second queue, which alphas can't do either.
Overall, there is no such thing as an alpha character, or an omega character. They are alpha accounts or omega accounts, so it makes no logical sense to have an omega account with alpha characters.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Another Posting Alt
Zerious Fricken Biziness
196
|
Posted - 2016.11.30 21:26:22 -
[12] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote: Honestly I cannot see that this is fair and balanced. Alpha characters can gain sp in certain skills without the expenditure of a single penny, why should second characters on an Omega account be any different in earning those very same sp?
Because those SP are worth something. You can sell them or use them yourself. An Alpha account can make x SP per month. An Omega account can make 2x SP per month. You get to pick where you allocate them. |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
825
|
Posted - 2016.11.30 21:35:10 -
[13] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:Honestly I cannot see that this is fair and balanced. Alpha characters can gain sp in certain skills without the expenditure of a single penny, why should second characters on an Omega account be any different in earning those very same sp?
I personally believe that all additional characters on an Omega account should be able to earn sp without MCT as an Alpha account. Once the Alpha character has maxed their permitted sp levels, then moving beyond that should require either MCT or stopping sp gain on the other character associated with the account.
"They just let me play for free for the first time in 13 years but I still want more"
If you give a mouse a cookie... |
Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2016.11.30 22:02:06 -
[14] - Quote
There are accounts, alpha and omega are features that are either free or not. With a paid Omega feature without MCT I can train 1 character only at 2x the rate for a fee. On an account with Alpha, I can train 1 character at 1x for free.
The Alpha can garner a fairly large amount of sp for no cost whatsoever. The second character on the account with the Omega can not garner any sp for free, ever for either the main character or for any other characters associated with the account. Now exactly why is it ok for a FREE account to be able to gain FREE sp and the paid account cannot? |
Doddy
Excidium.
957
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 04:52:33 -
[15] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:There are accounts, alpha and omega are features that are either free or not. With a paid Omega feature without MCT I can train 1 character only at 2x the rate for a fee. On an account with Alpha, I can train 1 character at 1x for free.
The Alpha can garner a fairly large amount of sp for no cost whatsoever. The second character on the account with the Omega can not garner any sp for free, ever for either the main character or for any other characters associated with the account. Now exactly why is it ok for a FREE account to be able to gain FREE sp and the paid account cannot?
My argument is that accounts with Omega features should be able to have at least 1 of the 2 potential alternate characters be able to train up to the max available for Alpha without cost.
Its not a very good argument. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
46107
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 04:59:39 -
[16] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:There are accounts, alpha and omega are features that are either free or not. With a paid Omega feature without MCT I can train 1 character only at 2x the rate for a fee. On an account with Alpha, I can train 1 character at 1x for free.
The Alpha can garner a fairly large amount of sp for no cost whatsoever. The second character on the account with the Omega can not garner any sp for free, ever for either the main character or for any other characters associated with the account. Now exactly why is it ok for a FREE account to be able to gain FREE sp and the paid account cannot?
My argument is that accounts with Omega features should be able to have at least 1 of the 2 potential alternate characters be able to train up to the max available for Alpha without cost. The one character on an alpha account can train a limited set of skills up to a maximum amount. The second character can also not train at the same time. Nor the third character.
The one character on an omega account has unlimited access to all skills, faster training and access to more ships and modules. The complete range of activities the game offers. If a player stops the training queue, the second character has access to that exact same freedom, as does the third. They can't be trained at the same time without paying for MCT and this is exactly the same as it was before clone states were introduced.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 16:34:43 -
[17] - Quote
So from a practical perspective in terms of dollars. All characters should max out via an Alpha before purchasing an Omega. It is cheaper to farm Alpha accounts for sp, then purchase 1 PLEX to transfer to another account than it would be to have that character developed as a secondary on the PAID Omega account.
How is making the dedicated PAID user jump through hoops to train up a secondary character to maxed Alpha status a good thing?
If you really wanted to make things completely fair, then have paid Omega users have the ability to purchase a maxed Alpha character as a secondary using PLEX or so. This would not encourage the proliferation of account generation... |
Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY Domestic Disturbance
390
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 17:16:46 -
[18] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:So from a practical perspective in terms of dollars. All characters should max out via an Alpha before purchasing an Omega. It is cheaper to farm Alpha accounts for sp, then purchase 1 PLEX to transfer to another account than it would be to have that character developed as a secondary on the PAID Omega account.
How is making the dedicated PAID user jump through hoops to train up a secondary character to maxed Alpha status a good thing?
Except it takes twice the time.
And during such time, you cannot do anything or use anything that would require an Omega account.
So yes, if youre okay with waiting twice the amount of time and not being able to do what you want to, then i suppose maxing alpha before purchasing Omega would be the better choice, money-wise.
And if youre going to eventually lose your ship either way, then only flying T1 frigate cruisers with T1 guns would be the better choice, money-wise.
And if youre going to lose your isk either way, never undocking and never playing the game would be the better choice, money-wise.
And if youre going to spend money either way, then not spending it on this game and instead buying something that will last for a couple years is the better choice, money-wise.
Quote: If you really wanted to make things completely fair, then have paid Omega users have the ability to purchase a maxed Alpha character as a secondary using PLEX or so. This would not encourage the proliferation of account generation...
A month of training is only around 1.5 million SP. A max alpha is about 5 million SP. How is that fair?
Also, lets say i pause training on my Omega character, and start up the training queue on my alpha. Then my alpha would no longer be an alpha, and I would essentially have 2 Omega characters, would I not? |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2773
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 17:30:25 -
[19] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:
Honestly I cannot see that this is fair and balanced. Alpha characters can gain sp in certain skills without the expenditure of a single penny, why should second characters on an Omega account be any different in earning those very same sp?
Oh, look, it's this thread again.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 17:34:46 -
[20] - Quote
So you are arguing that a paid account, that had to struggle to get to 5M sp, should not have access to what is FREE to unpaid players? That a PAID account should have less benefit than an UNPAID account?
An unpaid account can now generate a 5M sp character for no cost. A paid account cannot generate such a character for no cost. So, to generate a 5M sp character on an Omega account either requires a multi-month commitment of the paid sp generation portion of an account holder, OR a multi-month commitment of MCT, VS creation of a new Alpha account, daily interaction of that account to do NOTHING OTHER THAN SET THE QUE until it reaches 5M sp and then the account gets transferred to the paid account for LESS MONEY than would otherwise be required for the paid account to generate said character.
This is not rational. |
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
46126
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 17:42:24 -
[21] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:So you are arguing that a paid account, that had to struggle to get to 5M sp, should not have access to what is FREE to unpaid players? That a PAID account should have less benefit than an UNPAID account?
An unpaid account can now generate a 5M sp character for no cost. A paid account cannot generate such a character for no cost. So, to generate a 5M sp character on an Omega account either requires a multi-month commitment of the paid sp generation portion of an account holder, OR a multi-month commitment of MCT, VS creation of a new Alpha account, daily interaction of that account to do NOTHING OTHER THAN SET THE QUE until it reaches 5M sp and then the account gets transferred to the paid account for LESS MONEY than would otherwise be required for the paid account to generate said character.
This is not rational. Why does it have to struggle and it does have access to what alpha accounts have access to, plus a whole lot more.
We don't pay to get less. As soon as you switch to omega you have access to additional ships, modules and capabilities across industry, trading and contracting.
It's not all about skill points.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 18:37:10 -
[22] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote: Why does it have to struggle and it does have access to what alpha accounts have access to, plus a whole lot more.
We don't pay to get less. As soon as you switch to omega you have access to additional ships, modules and capabilities across industry, trading and contracting.
It's not all about skill points.
I HAVE paid accounts. But now CCP is offering players that have NO FINANCIAL commitment to the game 5M sp toward a new character for zero dollars. This character has value. This character's value for zero dollars is far in excess of a single month of Omega costs in terms of sp generation. So now why, for zero dollars and no commitment toward the game WHATSOEVER, should a 5M sp character be available and convertible to an Omega character, when current Omega players do not have access to the SAME 5M sp character as an alt on the same PAID account?
You are arguing that paid accounts are worthwhile, I have not said otherwise. I am arguing that if you give 5M sp out for free to those with no financial commitment and no history of financial commitment to the game, why is CCP not offering this to those who wish to start alts on their paid accounts, when they have demonstrated financial commitment to the game?
It is CHEAPER BY FAR for existing Omega account owners to start an entirely new Alpha account, get that account maxed out for no cost, then pay to transfer it to the Omega account than it is to have an alt started on the Omega account from the very get go. MCT or using the Omega account to start a new alt is irrational in the current model. Period. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2777
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 19:28:13 -
[23] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:
I HAVE paid accounts. But now CCP is offering players that have NO FINANCIAL commitment to the game...
Quote:I am arguing that if you give 5M sp out for free to those with no financial commitment and no history of financial commitment...
So basically, you're the kind of self-absorbed child who manages to convince yourself that you're being ripped off any time you perceive someone else is getting a "deal".
Alpha accounts exist, first and foremost, as a marketing tool to further CCP's business interests. The chief purpose is converting people with "no financial commitment" into paying customers. It's not a gift, and it wasn't designed to be a mechanism to facilitate and streamline the creation of non-revenue generating alts.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 19:35:07 -
[24] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote: So basically, you're the kind of self-absorbed child who manages to convince yourself that you're being ripped off any time you perceive someone else is getting a "deal".
Alpha accounts exist, first and foremost, as a marketing tool to further CCP's business interests. The chief purpose is converting people with "no financial commitment" into paying customers. It's not a gift, and it wasn't designed to be a mechanism to facilitate and streamline the creation of non-revenue generating alts.
Wow moved pretty quick to name calling since your argument against fell flat. CCP offers something for free to non paid account holders, paid account holder wants the same or better. And I guess that you don't want the same thing or better from CCP because you have more money or time than most of us?
Really? |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2014
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 19:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote: So basically, you're the kind of self-absorbed child who manages to convince yourself that you're being ripped off any time you perceive someone else is getting a "deal".
Alpha accounts exist, first and foremost, as a marketing tool to further CCP's business interests. The chief purpose is converting people with "no financial commitment" into paying customers. It's not a gift, and it wasn't designed to be a mechanism to facilitate and streamline the creation of non-revenue generating alts.
Wow moved pretty quick to name calling since your argument against fell flat. CCP offers something for free to non paid account holders, paid account holder wants the same or better. And I guess that you don't want the same thing or better from CCP because you have more money or time than most of us? Really? Paid account holders get better than unpaid ones, so there is no issue. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2777
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 19:47:43 -
[26] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote: Wow moved pretty quick to name calling since your argument against fell flat. CCP offers something for free to non paid account holders, paid account holder wants the same or better.
You already get the same or better (a LOT better, in fact). The mechanism is intended to entice new customers to pay. You're literally whining about the fact that a marketing ploy intended to bring in new paying customers doesn't afford you, an already-paying customer, any special treatment.
Nobody has a single care to spare for your desire to concurrently frontload 5 million SP onto omega-alts at no additional cost to yourself. Get over it and pony up the plex.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
46127
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 21:00:05 -
[27] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote: So basically, you're the kind of self-absorbed child who manages to convince yourself that you're being ripped off any time you perceive someone else is getting a "deal".
Alpha accounts exist, first and foremost, as a marketing tool to further CCP's business interests. The chief purpose is converting people with "no financial commitment" into paying customers. It's not a gift, and it wasn't designed to be a mechanism to facilitate and streamline the creation of non-revenue generating alts.
Wow moved pretty quick to name calling since your argument against fell flat. CCP offers something for free to non paid account holders, paid account holder wants the same or better. And I guess that you don't want the same thing or better from CCP because you have more money or time than most of us? Really? But we do get better for being omega.
There is no aspect of an omega that is inferior to an alpha.
Not a single one.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY Domestic Disturbance
390
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 21:09:08 -
[28] - Quote
Zorn Cosby wrote:
You are arguing that paid accounts are worthwhile, I have not said otherwise. I am arguing that if you give 5M sp out for free to those with no financial commitment and no history of financial commitment to the game, why is CCP not offering this to those who wish to start alts on their paid accounts, when they have demonstrated financial commitment to the game?
You are free to make a trial account and get as many Alphas up to 5 million skillpoints as you want. There are no restrictions placed upon you.
Quote: It is CHEAPER BY FAR for existing Omega account owners to start an entirely new Alpha account, get that account maxed out for no cost, then pay to transfer it to the Omega account than it is to have an alt started on the Omega account from the very get go. MCT or using the Omega account to start a new alt is irrational in the current model. Period.
Again, time is an issue. You have to invest more time to get an alpha to 5 m than an omega. Twice the amount, infact. And yes, Time is just as important as money, and can translate to money as well.
People who do not want to wait, get MCT. They cannot stand around because they dont want to waste TIME. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2781
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 21:33:11 -
[29] - Quote
Solonius Rex wrote:Zorn Cosby wrote:
You are arguing that paid accounts are worthwhile, I have not said otherwise. I am arguing that if you give 5M sp out for free to those with no financial commitment and no history of financial commitment to the game, why is CCP not offering this to those who wish to start alts on their paid accounts, when they have demonstrated financial commitment to the game?
You are free to make a trial account and get as many Alphas up to 5 million skillpoints as you want. There are no restrictions placed upon you. Quote: It is CHEAPER BY FAR for existing Omega account owners to start an entirely new Alpha account, get that account maxed out for no cost, then pay to transfer it to the Omega account than it is to have an alt started on the Omega account from the very get go. MCT or using the Omega account to start a new alt is irrational in the current model. Period.
Again, time is an issue. You have to invest more time to get an alpha to 5 m than an omega. Twice the amount, infact. And yes, Time is just as important as money, and can translate to money as well. People who do not want to wait, get MCT. They cannot stand around because they dont want to waste TIME.
Not only that, but his argument is that since A is cheaper than B, instead they should just make it available at absolutely no additional cost.
If you make your alt on a separate account because you want to train concurrently with your main, then transfer it later, it's going to cost you two plex.
If you make your alt on your existing account and want to train concurrently with your main, it's going to cost you an MCT per month.
What he proposes effectively deletes this revenue.
Mostly this boils down to entitled, "People who aren't me are getting something so I should get a concession, too, because I deserve things, because I am me," type thinking.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 21:35:25 -
[30] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Paid account holders get better than unpaid ones, so there is no issue.
Not true, paid account holders HAVE to pay for the first 5M sp on their accounts. Unpaid do not. This only encourages a proliferation of accounts for those with paid accounts.
SurrenderMonkey wrote:] You already get the same or better (a LOT better, in fact). The mechanism is intended to entice new customers to pay. You're literally whining about the fact that a marketing ploy intended to bring in new paying customers doesn't afford you, an already-paying customer, any special treatment.
Nobody has a single care to spare for your desire to concurrently frontload 5 million SP onto omega-alts at no additional cost to yourself. Get over it and pony up the plex.
Again, personally disparaging those on the community is so effective. Take much away from the US presidential election? Very effective upon those less educated...
I have suggested having this available via plex if you bothered to read, but guess you don't have the time. This is a matter of comparable offering of sp to those that actually PAY for their accounts vs gifts to those that do not.
Scipio Artelius wrote: But we do get better for being omega.
There is no aspect of an omega that is inferior to an alpha.
Not a single one.
Alpha is FREE for 5M sp. Omega is not.
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