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Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
17
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Posted - 2016.12.07 09:40:01 -
[1] - Quote
Allow Players to create and maintain their own deadspace areas.
The generator will be a deployable structure with low defensive capabilities and will have large fuel costs in order to maintain the field. Along with the primary generator structure, an acceleration gate for entering into the deadspace area will automatically be included as part of the deployment. Additional layers of gates may be a possibility for increasing the complexity of the area, or for having a third party break into the created space.
The generator structure will beam energy into a neighboring area, making the area inaccessible except through an acceleration gate. Within this area Hi-Sec and Low-Sec system security settings can be removed if the controlling corporation wants. if someone within the area is scanned down, warping to them will bring you to the entrance gate, just like a normal deadspace area does. The gate will be capable of locking out undesirables by their corp standings, but can be unlocked forcefully (destroying the generator, or maybe a locking mechanism) or perhaps also hacked with a data analyzer. Destruction will send an alert through local, Hacking will not.
There would be a lot of ramifications around this if dockable structures could also be built within this deadspace area and while I am open to the possibility, for the time being I will say that it won't be possible.
I think this could be a doable addition to the game. While I can really only think of using it as a training and exhibition area there may be other uses. Let me know if you can think of any, or of changes to make it more flexible and usable.
One big concern I can see with this would be the possibility of using this 'lower security space' as an area to light Cynos, but I'm sure many of you would be vehemently against this, so it will be off the table. I can see mobile depots and mobile scan inhibitors working interestingly with this though. |
Xcom
Quantum Vortex Battalion
73
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Posted - 2016.12.07 10:18:08 -
[2] - Quote
This is an interesting idea. But what would be the point other then anchoring a few cans in this space? It would be nice to have covert hideouts for pirates that don't want to anchor a tower or temporary staging base into enemy terf. It's just to early as we have yet to see enough anchorable structures in eve to have the tools to utilize deadspace pockets. They are adding more and more structures so who knows. At some point it makes sense to have something like a pocket to stage out of, just not at this point. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3759
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Posted - 2016.12.07 10:25:14 -
[3] - Quote
Xcom wrote:This is an interesting idea. But what would be the point other then anchoring a few cans in this space? It would be nice to have covert hideouts for pirates that don't want to anchor a tower or temporary staging base into enemy terf. It's just to early as we have yet to see enough anchorable structures in eve to have the tools to utilize deadspace pockets. They are adding more and more structures so who knows. At some point it makes sense to have something like a pocket to stage out of, just not at this point. The point is to bait people in highsec into a Nullsec zone and gank them without concord. Obviously. Along with the raft of other obvious abuses you could come up with for this. |
Iain Cariaba
3347
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Posted - 2016.12.07 10:32:07 -
[4] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Xcom wrote:This is an interesting idea. But what would be the point other then anchoring a few cans in this space? It would be nice to have covert hideouts for pirates that don't want to anchor a tower or temporary staging base into enemy terf. It's just to early as we have yet to see enough anchorable structures in eve to have the tools to utilize deadspace pockets. They are adding more and more structures so who knows. At some point it makes sense to have something like a pocket to stage out of, just not at this point. The point is to bait people in highsec into a Nullsec zone and gank them without concord. Obviously. Along with the raft of other obvious abuses you could come up with for this. The noob tears alone would flood the world, not to mention the bears who should've known better but did it anyway,
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
17
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Posted - 2016.12.07 10:32:39 -
[5] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Xcom wrote:This is an interesting idea. But what would be the point other then anchoring a few cans in this space? It would be nice to have covert hideouts for pirates that don't want to anchor a tower or temporary staging base into enemy terf. It's just to early as we have yet to see enough anchorable structures in eve to have the tools to utilize deadspace pockets. They are adding more and more structures so who knows. At some point it makes sense to have something like a pocket to stage out of, just not at this point. The point is to bait people in highsec into a Nullsec zone and gank them without concord. Obviously. Along with the raft of other obvious abuses you could come up with for this.
Yes I can see that potential, and it's a good one:
'Please come into our deadspace field for joint training, it will be fun' 'Well, now that you are all here ...' (bubbles get deployed and fleet decloaks) 'Newbs, Bwhahaha kill them all!!!'
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Xcom
Quantum Vortex Battalion
73
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Posted - 2016.12.07 10:38:31 -
[6] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Xcom wrote:This is an interesting idea. But what would be the point other then anchoring a few cans in this space? It would be nice to have covert hideouts for pirates that don't want to anchor a tower or temporary staging base into enemy terf. It's just to early as we have yet to see enough anchorable structures in eve to have the tools to utilize deadspace pockets. They are adding more and more structures so who knows. At some point it makes sense to have something like a pocket to stage out of, just not at this point. The point is to bait people in highsec into a Nullsec zone and gank them without concord. Obviously. Along with the raft of other obvious abuses you could come up with for this. What would you bait with? If pirates couldn't dock in stations then it would make sense. But pirates like everyone else can dock so its kinda pointless. Nothing else anchorable that is valuable that cant be placed in a station instead. |
Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
17
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Posted - 2016.12.07 10:56:01 -
[7] - Quote
Xcom wrote:This is an interesting idea. But what would be the point other then anchoring a few cans in this space? It would be nice to have covert hideouts for pirates that don't want to anchor a tower or temporary staging base into enemy terf. It's just to early as we have yet to see enough anchorable structures in eve to have the tools to utilize deadspace pockets. They are adding more and more structures so who knows. At some point it makes sense to have something like a pocket to stage out of, just not at this point.
I do admit that the structure may currently lack lasting purpose.
As for filling the pocket though, you could rework the mechanics around this to allow the generator to preserve existing deadspace areas and sites. If you need structures, debris, and asteroids in your pocket, for atmosphere, perhaps you just find some in a mission or site to capture. If this becomes possible, another big possibility opens up: -Use it to Capture Ice and Gas sites and then restrict access... (yes that would be a big step but just throwing it out there) |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3372
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Posted - 2016.12.07 12:23:14 -
[8] - Quote
this just sounds like a tool to further distance yourself from player interaction -1
BLOPS Hauler
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1080
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Posted - 2016.12.07 14:00:57 -
[9] - Quote
Deckel wrote: The generator structure will beam energy into a neighboring area, making the area inaccessible except through an acceleration gate.
Deckel wrote:The gate will be capable of locking out undesirables by their corp standings, but can be unlocked forcefully (destroying the generator, or maybe a locking mechanism) or perhaps also hacked with a data analyzer. To many things left to the imagination and not enough solid information in your idea to decide if this would be good or bad. So here are just a few of my concerns based on what you have given us.
How are you going to destroy a generator you cannot get to because it is locked behind a gate that will not let you pass?
How are you going to destroy the structures that create this dead space when they are protected behind a gate that will not let you pass?
You mention a locking mechanism that could be destroyed to allow passage but offer no details on how this might work and critical information like ehp, resist etc that would have to be overcome to destroy it. If this mechanism is tough enough to destroy to make it viable against cap ships in low and nul, would a small high sec group be able to destroy it in a reasonable amount of time? If it was low enough a high sec group could destroy it in a reasonable amount of time then it becomes trivially easy for a low or nul sec group with cap ships.
How do you prevent these from being used as another layer of security for a Citadel, or is that an important component of your idea?
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Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
17
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Posted - 2016.12.07 17:28:41 -
[10] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Deckel wrote: The generator structure will beam energy into a neighboring area, making the area inaccessible except through an acceleration gate. Deckel wrote:The gate will be capable of locking out undesirables by their corp standings, but can be unlocked forcefully (destroying the generator, or maybe a locking mechanism) or perhaps also hacked with a data analyzer. To many things left to the imagination and not enough solid information in your idea to decide if this would be good or bad. So here are just a few of my concerns based on what you have given us. How are you going to destroy a generator you cannot get to because it is locked behind a gate that will not let you pass? How are you going to destroy the structures that create this dead space when they are protected behind a gate that will not let you pass? You mention a locking mechanism that could be destroyed to allow passage but offer no details on how this might work and critical information like ehp, resist etc that would have to be overcome to destroy it. If this mechanism is tough enough to destroy to make it viable against cap ships in low and nul, would a small high sec group be able to destroy it in a reasonable amount of time? If it was low enough a high sec group could destroy it in a reasonable amount of time then it becomes trivially easy for a low or nul sec group with cap ships. How do you prevent these from being used as another layer of security for a Citadel, or is that an important component of your idea?
It is intended to have the Generator device positioned next to the acceleration gate, not within the deadspace area. This is why I mention it beaming energy into a neighboring area. This keeps the structure accessible to anyone within the system.
As for the defensive ability of the locking mechanism, if it is included, I would say it should contain the eph capable of holding back a 500-600dps vessel 2-3 minutes. Engaging the locking structure would not be a criminal offense, but doing so would flag the player as suspect. Sufficient damage will disable, not destroy the lock, as it will be repairable. Only destruction of the generator device will remove the deadspace area. Such a destruction will make warping to scanned targets within the area possible, and cause a 30 minute despawn timer for the acceleration gate, as it will still be usable for reaching the area.
It is not my intention to be able to use these as additional security for player owned stations, though I am not sure it would be such a horrible occurrence as long as the generator site is not capable of being armed with weaponry or going into a defensive mode. |
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PopeUrban
El Expedicion Flames of Exile
257
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Posted - 2016.12.07 22:11:51 -
[11] - Quote
Deadspace pockets exist to give players a little extra time to disengage from PVE combat in prepration for PVP.
We don't need player created deadspace pockets because everything players themselves build is intended to be primarily interacted with (mostly violently) by other players. |
Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
17
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Posted - 2016.12.07 22:58:24 -
[12] - Quote
PopeUrban wrote:Deadspace pockets exist to give players a little extra time to disengage from PVE combat in prepration for PVP.
We don't need player created deadspace pockets because everything players themselves build is intended to be primarily interacted with (mostly violently) by other players.
Just because something is not needed does not mean that it would not be useful.
I see no problem with players being able to create their own little segregated space. The real issue is what uses it is allow to be used for. With the right purpose and development, something like a personal deadspace pocket could become an invaluable addition to the game. |
PopeUrban
El Expedicion Flames of Exile
257
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Posted - 2016.12.07 23:36:46 -
[13] - Quote
Deckel wrote:PopeUrban wrote:Deadspace pockets exist to give players a little extra time to disengage from PVE combat in prepration for PVP.
We don't need player created deadspace pockets because everything players themselves build is intended to be primarily interacted with (mostly violently) by other players. Just because something is not needed does not mean that it would not be useful. I see no problem with players being able to create their own little segregated space. The real issue is what uses it is allow to be used for. With the right purpose and development, something like a personal deadspace pocket could become an invaluable addition to the game.
No, see, my problem is this:
It allows players to create choke points for literally any reason they want, which in turn makes brawling/smartbombing fleets disproportionately valuable because in stead of being good picks for existing systems, where certain natural choke points exist, it creates a system where any fight of any importance take place at a choke point.
With your system in place, brick tanking ships designed to sit in one place become the only logical choice for defending literally anything, and range/kite fits become the only logical option for attacking literally anything. |
Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
17
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Posted - 2016.12.08 00:55:22 -
[14] - Quote
PopeUrban wrote:
No, see, my problem is this:
It allows players to create choke points for literally any reason they want, which in turn makes brawling/smartbombing fleets disproportionately valuable because in stead of being good picks for existing systems, where certain natural choke points exist, it creates a system where any fight of any importance take place at a choke point.
With your system in place, brick tanking ships designed to sit in one place become the only logical choice for defending literally anything, and range/kite fits become the only logical option for attacking literally anything.
Yes, it creates a potential choke point that fleets could hide in, but chokepoints are one of the main basis for combat in Eve, I don't see much issue with it, especially since it will take effort and time to establish the site, and it will be a strategic advantage which is destroyable. If you know it leads to an ambush then take the time to destroy the generator, then they will either have to come to you to prevent it, wait until they become vulnerable, or they will have to flee. And even if they flee to another generator and you have to go through all that again, you are depriving them of expensive assets.
To minimize the choke point though, it may be possible to have additional scattering for when you land. What is current scattering, random placement 2500m from the beacon? Increase that to 10km and having a smartbomber sitting on beacon would have far less effect. (in fact that might be an interesting effect to be able to have on all acceleration gates) |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5018
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Posted - 2016.12.08 07:15:14 -
[15] - Quote
So can I use one of these to make my ihubs impossible to entosis without killing the generators first? Or to make rorqual stuffed mining anoms into impenetrable fortresses?
Or to hide my CSAA POSes? |
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
145
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Posted - 2016.12.08 13:27:38 -
[16] - Quote
What kind of deadspace are you looking because there's a few flavours to look for.... the old ghetto deadspace where you couldn't activate MWD, MJD, Cyno, bomb launcher, and some other stuff. the modern watered down version where you can use MWD, MJD but no cyno or bomb launcher. A new type of deadspace to be filled in by creative minds with radical particles. |
powdemonic Ellecon
Moosearmy Moose Federation
3
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Posted - 2016.12.18 11:26:54 -
[17] - Quote
you could just make it so we came build acceleration gate go to a deep safe and deploy the acceleration gate and it cannot be destroyed or picked up but has a life span of lets say 1 hour for t1 and 3 for t2 and if there are faction ones maybe more time, and they can be scanned down and only sub caps can go through and cyno's cannot be lit at the acceleration gate or in the pocket, and you can put up to 2 maybe 3 acceleration gates in a single constalation or maybe region I think that would be best for you idea |
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