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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Xennos Octavian
Cloak and Daggers Fidelas Constans
1
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Posted - 2016.12.07 20:50:06 -
[181] - Quote
Man v Food wrote:nice fozzie is back after his last ****** idea,now another **** up by fozzie
if you think enough time has passed and people have forgotten your completely useless ideas...it has'nt
and on that note you can refund the isk i spent on these **** drones that move slower than my rorqual and now they are going to mine less than a ship that cost 1/4 that they do
gj fozzie wb tosser
I take it CCP Fozzie is the source of the "Balanced Legion" thing I have heard about the Zkill videos by rhiload (since Fozzie was the guy responsible for the nightmare Svipul).
I can definitely see what you mean by the viability of the Excavators (do they really move slower than a Rorq). If you want to have the Rorq be a Capital Ship capable of mining, you should have it able to function at a suitable level, not at one that a group of much smaller, less expensive Exhumers can out-mine (given the Excavators were once almost equivalent to one Exhumer each). |
Ascenity
Ciggy Butt Brains. ChaosTheory.
0
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Posted - 2016.12.07 20:51:17 -
[182] - Quote
Wait, so in the expansion you gave us a change that made the Risk >>>>>>>> Reward, and now you are removing even more of the reward??? I really hope that you have more plans for making it safer to use the Rorquals for those who do not have a Fat alliance behind them. Don't get me wrong, Excavator drones mined sooo much, but with so so much risk. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2835
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Posted - 2016.12.07 20:59:19 -
[183] - Quote
Ascenity wrote:Wait, so in the expansion you gave us a change that made the Risk >>>>>>>> Reward,
Yeah, you can tell the risk vastly exceeds the rewards because absolutely nobody is using Rorquals at all anymore.
That's why they need a nerf - lack of use due to insufficient reward:risk ratio.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund Goonswarm Federation
1059
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Posted - 2016.12.07 21:01:06 -
[184] - Quote
Ascenity wrote:Wait, so in the expansion you gave us a change that made the Risk >>>>>>>> Reward, and now you are removing even more of the reward??? I really hope that you have more plans for making it safer to use the Rorquals for those who do not have a Fat alliance behind them. Don't get me wrong, Excavator drones mined sooo much, but with so so much risk. i dont see what our weight problems have to do with this |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2780
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Posted - 2016.12.07 21:17:59 -
[185] - Quote
Gobbins wrote:Unbelievable
1. So why would anyone siege 9 bil worth of rorqual to make 200 mil an hour post-nerf, when a 2 bil carrier will make 150 mil/hr while staying fully aligned?
2. By making the excavator cheaper won't most dual boxing rorqs just add a third rorq? the total isk committed to the belt will stay the same, and rorquals are not very hard to multi box - so what do you do then nerf it harder? All this does is makr Rorquals the multi boxer's isk printer while single boxing plebes will stick to carriers.
3. Why not balance the risk reward through **Risk** rather than nerfing reward? For example by nerfing panic mode, or putting a delay between recall and drones entering the bay. Rorquals ops are incredibly easy to disrupt due to how fragile the excavators are. It makes for really interesting game play and counter play and you go and say "oh no we can't have that"
I mean your recent changes have all been a mind boggling series of removing risk from everying:
- Citadels making supers untouchable while moving - ECs making bpos untouchable while building/researching - I mean citadels in general and god knows we've been taking advantage of them - And let's not forget good old hi sec incursions printing equivalent isk to nullsec ratting, but without risk
Finally you had put something interesting in the game and you nerf it? What are you guys even doing?
Man I am so triggered I am sitting here agreeing with goons that's how butt-annhilated I am.
> Leave the big Reward, increase RISK by looking at the panic module OR by making excavators more vulnerable. <
Cripes.
Best post in the thread so far...
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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ckinoutdahoe
Jolly Codgers Get Off My Lawn
16
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Posted - 2016.12.07 21:22:54 -
[186] - Quote
Good day to CCP and all the players of EVE,
This post will be a bit salty as there is a good bit to be pissed about.
Aside from not getting my ticket addressed for 8 days so I was not able to play..well boohoo right.
Well as a 10 year player and have taken the time to save some 30 bill liquid and have on hand another amount of such if need be for the NOVEMBER 15th massive release.
Not only was I not able to enhance all players who went to the outer ring to convert the LP's they had for isk by via the new bpc's due to being unable to log in........great timing for the 2 part verification BS... massive thumbs up on that. NOT!!!!!
Next, but far less important being able to buy x amount of material for the new drones. Thus, if you think the Imperium has a lot of RORQ's on the field now consider how many left theirs docked due to no excavator drones being available to include 4 of mine. I am sure I can list at least a 1/2 dozen with at least 4 accounts with RORQ's and dozens of others 3 or less accounts wanting to play with the improved version of this massive null sec mining ship
More importantly is that a non named GM stated to one person only about info on what is more or less needed to build them at the vegas convention.....so instead of making a release of the info; one person or group has made trillions of isk at the expense of all the others, nor has CCP addressed the issue to ensure such parts would be available after said person (group) sucked the markets dry well before hand thus after the release you as a RORQ pilot got shafted.
Now that you have spent a billion plus per drone to the tune of about 6 billion plus per set now you get the nerf in less than a month.
Maybe a small nerf is in order but 32%....really !!! for drones that move slow as mole ass's unless you have 3 faction mods on it to help it out a little bit.
So to sum things up...... (1) Rorq at 3 bill, fittings and rigs add another 2.5b to fend off a small fleet at best, and another 6 plus billion for the new drones.......for a grand total of 11.5 plus bill just to mine with the best ship in the game ........and now nerf it in less than a month is deplorable.
There has been ample time in advance to do the math, so leave the nerf in the dust or maybe take 10% and give the new drones some speed.
There is more to say but I hope you see the points addressed in all of our posts to this point.
Thank you for your time |
COMMANDER KATMAN
DUST Expeditionary Team Good Sax
3
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Posted - 2016.12.07 21:25:22 -
[187] - Quote
CCP the buff to drop rates sure... still going to take time for that to be farmed and hit markets, but you swing to hard this time with The Bat
I think the nerf needs to be more like 10-20% and a balance buff to drone speed so you don't totally kill the whole revamp with this 32%
you could even add some high level skills and lock some of the excavators yield in to the extra skill time investment, rather than just flat nerf the crap out of them
You did good with the rework, don't kill that work being heavy handed.
Also maybe think about adding more than 1 super weapon option, give us other options to the Nexus Core... I am sure we all have tons of good ideas for such mods.
Thanks.
Kat
The EvE Feats Are Real.
-Officer Hunting Legend-.
G£¬G£¬G£¬ 65 Life Time Officer Spawns... !
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Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
395
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Posted - 2016.12.07 21:33:06 -
[188] - Quote
Andail Chanter wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:Because GSF cannot fly Rorqs? PL has an in-game surface area that presents few, if any, soft spots, unlike most other groups in game. It's to their advantage to have a wildly OP jump HIC. Sounds like a nice PL advert. Seriously though, I used to respect Goons. They could take a mechanics and abuse it as hell, showcasing how broken it was. And there were the days when Goons could take on any ~apex force~ with twice the numbers and build a monument of their enemy titan wrecks. |
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund Goonswarm Federation
1060
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Posted - 2016.12.07 21:35:21 -
[189] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Andail Chanter wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:Because GSF cannot fly Rorqs? PL has an in-game surface area that presents few, if any, soft spots, unlike most other groups in game. It's to their advantage to have a wildly OP jump HIC. Sounds like a nice PL advert. Seriously though, I used to respect Goons. They could take a mechanics and abuse it as hell, showcasing how broken it was. And there were the days when Goons could take on any ~apex force~ with twice the numbers and build a monument of their enemy titan wrecks. just as always, it would literally be impossible for us to care less about the respect of npc pubbies |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2613
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Posted - 2016.12.07 21:36:52 -
[190] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote: Seriously though, I used to respect Goons.
Found the lie.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
143
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Posted - 2016.12.07 21:37:26 -
[191] - Quote
Fozzie originally said the excavator mining drones would be 18k m-¦ per minute. The release had them mine 40k m-¦ per 90 seconds which is about 27k m-¦ per minute. a 32% nerf is happening.
0,68 * 26.666m-¦ / minute = 18000 m-¦ / minute. Coincidence? I THINK NOT!!! |
Sharasa
Greyhaven Logistical Merchants
1
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Posted - 2016.12.07 21:46:32 -
[192] - Quote
Let me get this straight. I just bought a Rorqual a few days ago because of the exciting new mining calculations i came up with. My only thing I was worried about was losing it during its mining seige. I never got to even use it once. I spent a lot of time and isk to move it. Then you take away the whole reason for me buying it within 2 weeks of the changes. Awesome planning CCP.
I want my 3 billion isk back
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FearlessLittleToaster
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
155
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Posted - 2016.12.07 21:46:34 -
[193] - Quote
Well this is interesting. A few days before my Rorquals were due to be delivered too. So, in terms of feedback, there are two different issues here. One is fine, the other is not.
On the not OK front, how is having an invincible seven minute heavy tackle a good thing? Especially one that costs less than a billion more than a properly fit HIC after insurance? A billion in Hics won't get anywhere near that kind of endurance in a real fight. I get that PL went all over-achiever and actually rigged/fit theirs in the recent fight, but that wasn't a requirement to use them as thins kind of tackle.
On the OK front, the nerf seems harsh but it's not changing my plan to buy a bunch of Rorquals. In fact, so long as the drop rate changes to the components bring down the price of the Excavators significantly, it makes them more attractive. I would rather risk 5b in a belt with 1.4b in insurance than 10b. Much less time to see my ROI, even with the payout chopped by a third.
Now, I also live in heavily inhabited space where I can reasonably expect to get a fleet to bail me out well before my PANIC wears off. For somebody without ten thousand foaming at the mouth Goons for backup the math may now look very very different. |
Sarah Flynt
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
260
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Posted - 2016.12.07 21:46:52 -
[194] - Quote
Henry Plantgenet wrote:Fozzie originally said the excavator mining drones would be 18k m-¦ per minute. The release had them mine 40k m-¦ per 90 seconds which is about 27k m-¦ per minute. a 32% nerf is happening.
0,68 * 26.666m-¦ / minute = 18000 m-¦ / minute. Coincidence? I THINK NOT!!! which makes this basically not a nerf but a bugfix
Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
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Zappity
Horde Vanguard. Pandemic Horde
3078
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Posted - 2016.12.07 21:48:07 -
[195] - Quote
Why? Everyone has already priced in a high end mineral crash. Just let it be. Abundant minerals are essential to local production if you ever want to nerf jump freighters. Just fix T2 supply chain and we're good to go.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Sharasa
Greyhaven Logistical Merchants
1
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Posted - 2016.12.07 21:49:46 -
[196] - Quote
Why don't they have a dislike button like in you tube.
Everyone should be pissed including non miners. Because then you could have killed people like me soloing in 0.0.
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Nire Retipuj
The Dysfunctionals Fidelas Constans
5
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Posted - 2016.12.07 21:53:47 -
[197] - Quote
So much for believing what was promised. CCP reneged again. Industry Fire Sale tonight in Immensea. Ratting is my new career since miners have been getting undermined for about 11 years now.
Excavators cost 1.5 billion making them cost prohibitive and now they're nerfed. Bad enough it's open season on Rorquals. What a waste of isk and pixels.
Keep breaking our game and watch us all go away. Don't think it cant happen. All you have to do is keep doing what you've been doing for the last eight years and keep making your membership angry. You all have been warned. This path eventually leads to certain doom.
Just offering up some advice to heed. I don't want to see it go because I love this game. Please stop trying to fix what aint broken.
(I understand that "broken" is subjective.) |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
395
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Posted - 2016.12.07 21:58:45 -
[198] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:Andail Chanter wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:Because GSF cannot fly Rorqs? PL has an in-game surface area that presents few, if any, soft spots, unlike most other groups in game. It's to their advantage to have a wildly OP jump HIC. Sounds like a nice PL advert. Seriously though, I used to respect Goons. They could take a mechanics and abuse it as hell, showcasing how broken it was. And there were the days when Goons could take on any ~apex force~ with twice the numbers and build a monument of their enemy titan wrecks. just as always, it would literally be impossible for us to care less about the respect of npc pubbies Fair enough. Then I'll make the same treatment for you: Everything you say here is either a) propaganda b) metagame c) scam Neither of these is worth reading. Move along people, this is just goons doing their goon thing! |
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund Goonswarm Federation
1060
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Posted - 2016.12.07 22:00:00 -
[199] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote: Fair enough. Then I'll make the same treatment for you: Everything you say here is either a) propaganda b) metagame c) scam Neither of these is worth reading. Move along people, this is just goons doing their goon thing!
fire is hot, do not stick your hand in it |
Renfus
Dread Fleet
26
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Posted - 2016.12.07 22:14:04 -
[200] - Quote
Give Orcas the ability to use the new excavator drones.
((( Alliance Creation )))
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Contact me In-Game.
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Kerono Thalmor
Alexylva Paradox
48
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Posted - 2016.12.07 22:15:34 -
[201] - Quote
Rorquals are supposed to be the be-all-end-all of industry-related ships. Having the yield of three hulks doesn't seem like it's worth it instead of having a porpoise and three hulks. But if you guys are seriously bent on changing this, at least buff it in another area in return. A larger ore hold, or a boost in the effectiveness of boosts, even a slight one. I really don't think that just chopping off a third of the yield without doing anything else to the ship is wise, and this is indicated by the (rightfully) irritated posts previous mine.
EDIT: In essence, it may be an oversight on your end, CCP, but now the cat's out of the bag; either don't change the yield, or do something equally useful but less potentially harmful to the economy instead.
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Cade Windstalker
624
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Posted - 2016.12.07 22:27:06 -
[202] - Quote
Kerono Thalmor wrote:Rorquals are supposed to be the be-all-end-all of industry-related ships. Having the yield of three hulks doesn't seem like it's worth it instead of having a porpoise and three hulks. But if you guys are seriously bent on changing this, at least buff it in another area in return. A larger ore hold, or a boost in the effectiveness of boosts, even a slight one. I really don't think that just chopping off a third of the yield without doing anything else to the ship is wise, and this is indicated by the (rightfully) irritated posts previous mine.
EDIT: In essence, it may be an oversight on your end, CCP, but now the cat's out of the bag; either don't change the yield, or do something equally useful but less potentially harmful to the economy instead.
This is just poor logic, if you have four pilots the actual answer is either 4 Rorquals or 1 Rorqual and 3 Hulks, not a Porpoise and 3 Hulks.
Also I'd like to point out that they *just changed the Rorqual* so preventing harm to the economy from the previous changes is exactly what this tweak is trying to do, probably by tweaking the Risk/Reward matrix on the Rorqual a bit and reducing their impact on the economy as a result. |
Cyrus th3V1RUS
Cornerstone Training Academy
0
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Posted - 2016.12.07 22:27:09 -
[203] - Quote
When ever something great and good for the player occurs in this Game Fozzie fks it up. WTF. Ya I'm salty, I just spent crap tons of isk to risk inturn for more reward. So, I'/ll be getting a refund on the Excavators I spent billions on? You already have made us put the rorq into the belts, then add niv\ce fat expensive drones, but the reward is great for your risk....now u fk that in the as5.....why keep subbing I dont know. Eat a diq Fozzie |
Hippojaxx
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2016.12.07 22:40:50 -
[204] - Quote
As a rorqual miner I assumed a nerf would come in a timely manner. Do I think it's a little soon ? Yes, but what can you do. My big
gest concern is the 10ly jump hictor that is getting a "wait and see" response.
Fozziesmug |
Bleeding Fox
Triplanetary Development Integritas Constans
5
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Posted - 2016.12.07 22:47:36 -
[205] - Quote
Deploying that ship makes my heart race. lol. This change hurts my soul but hopefully the argument "nerfing volume, not income" will be true in the bigger picture.
I have my doubts it will be true though, being stuck behind an ore buyback program |
Advenat Bedala
Facehoof Out of Sight.
191
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Posted - 2016.12.07 22:47:47 -
[206] - Quote
Looks like CCP finally discovered presence of mining rigs.
IMO most rorqual OP is in "90% reduction to effective distance travelled for jump fatigue"
Rorqual is multi-functional ship, not only industrial |
Solari Eclipse
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.12.07 22:58:18 -
[207] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:- Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
Thanks!
Perhaps you could nerf them 132% then see where you are from there? Would pay minerals to sit stuck on a anom with 6b in drones that outpace the quickest of glaciers.
Come now, let's not over correct so hard it takes 3 years to figure this out, like the drone bug that shows my seriously spendy drones as being out when they're in my bay or worse vise versa.
How about we fix that, and *balance* mining rather than ignore one or both. |
GetSirrus
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
108
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Posted - 2016.12.07 23:02:44 -
[208] - Quote
So where was this love for mining when the Procurer and Retriever received a 25% yield nerf?
And to the rest; you want more Drone Speed - fit Drone Navigation Computers. You know - that valued Reward vs Risk metric. |
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
198
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Posted - 2016.12.07 23:16:36 -
[209] - Quote
Aasir wrote:Vald Tegor wrote:
Things tend to need a "nerf" when you tell your economy guys to run a number, then overshoot it by 50%.
Your telling me that in all the time they were re balancing the rorqual no one at ccp remembered their were mining drone rigs? Don't even talk to me Care to give a better explanation as to why the actual yield, that made it to the live server, is 50% higher than the presented changes in the dev blog? Can you not multiply the rocks you are getting by their volume or something?
Here's another possibility, after thinking about it some more:
We have established that the yield estimate in the blog is missing a ~50% multiplier. People have been endlessly wondering how the 2000 drone dps in the dev blog was arrived at. 5 Ogre 2's with T2 core and 4 T2 drone damage amps give us 1352 dps according to pyfa.
2000 * 0.68 = 1360
There's an extra 50% multiplier in there.
Drone interfacing gives +50% drone mining yield and +50% drone dps. Not two (stacking) 50% drone dps multipliers. Easy mistake to make on a spreadsheet. Hard to miss when you undock.
Do we get a drone dps buff with this change as well to compensate? |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3761
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Posted - 2016.12.08 00:17:25 -
[210] - Quote
Vald Tegor wrote:
We have established that the yield estimate in the blog is missing a ~50% multiplier. People have been endlessly wondering how the 2000 drone dps in the dev blog was arrived at. 5 Ogre 2's with T2 core and 4 T2 drone damage amps give us 1352 dps according to pyfa.
Try using Augmented drones, also what happens if you use Sentries with max Sentry DPS rigs. Also fill all your low slots with W-634 DDA's. The fit to get the max DPS they used is not really sensible. |
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