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xMercyx
Vector Technology Integration
0
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Posted - 2016.12.07 21:16:51 -
[1] - Quote
add some skill books to prevent what i think is the abuse of the war declaring system. what i mean by that is, the corps and alliances mass war dec-ing us tiny little corps with little to no restrictions. don't just add isk requirement, that's not enough. thanks for your 5 mins of time. |
Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
3007
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 21:18:12 -
[2] - Quote
xMercyx wrote:add some skill books to prevent what i think is the abuse of the war declaring system. what i mean by that is, the corps and alliances mass war dec-ing us tiny little corps with little to no restrictions. don't just add isk requirement, that's not enough. thanks for your 5 mins of time.
It's not an abuse and mostly happen because the system itself is broken. Fixing the system is more important than duct taping one odd behavior and leaving the rest broken.
In short, no need to limit dec numbers. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5013
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 21:18:19 -
[3] - Quote
Why do you deserve to be functionally immune to wardecs from mercenary corps, and why is your corp worth more to the game than any of said merc groups? |
Kara Hawke
The Scope Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 22:05:27 -
[4] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Why do you deserve to be functionally immune to wardecs from mercenary corps, and why is your corp worth more to the game than any of said merc groups?
It ruins the game and drives many people away. I've personally been a part of two corps that have dissolved from constant war decs by superior corps. People left or just stopped logging in when all the game became was sitting in station spinning your ship. So yes, if you want to still be playing the game in a few years, the smaller corps are more important to the game because eventually those players can get more involved in the game and pvp. The currrent system is completely broken, as it stands why even bother forcing corps to pay concord to keep wars active indefinitely, its penny's to large aggressive griefer corps.
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5013
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 22:11:18 -
[5] - Quote
Kara Hawke wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Why do you deserve to be functionally immune to wardecs from mercenary corps, and why is your corp worth more to the game than any of said merc groups? It ruins the game and drives many people away. I've personally been a part of two corps that have dissolved from constant war decs by superior corps. People left or just stopped logging in when all the game became was sitting in station spinning your ship. So yes, if you want to still be playing the game in a few years, the smaller corps are more important to the game because eventually those players can get more involved in the game and pvp. The currrent system is completely broken, as it stands why even bother forcing corps to pay concord to keep wars active indefinitely, its penny's to large aggressive griefer corps.
That isn't a problem with the game mechanics, that's a problem with the corp leadership.
This is a PVP centric game. Declaring war on a bunch of people is not griefing, it is a part of the game, and it always has been. (And hell. Wardecs aren't even hard to evade, especially now watchlists are gone. Just try not being in a market hub for a week, or use an alt for your jita runs like the rest of us have to do.)
And frankly, if people quit the game when they lose a ship or two to a wardec group instead of going somewhere else, finding a better corp, or learning how to fight back, they weren't going to stick around anyway. |
Iain Cariaba
3349
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 22:11:28 -
[6] - Quote
Kara Hawke wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Why do you deserve to be functionally immune to wardecs from mercenary corps, and why is your corp worth more to the game than any of said merc groups? It ruins the game and drives many people away. I've personally been a part of two corps that have dissolved from constant war decs by superior corps. People left or just stopped logging in when all the game became was sitting in station spinning your ship. So yes, if you want to still be playing the game in a few years, the smaller corps are more important to the game because eventually those players can get more involved in the game and pvp. The currrent system is completely broken, as it stands why even bother forcing corps to pay concord to keep wars active indefinitely, its penny's to large aggressive griefer corps.
Given the vast amount of stuff to do in this game, the only ones responsible for those people doing nothing but ship spinning is themselves.
Think of a wardec as an opportunity to step outside your narrow little world and experience more that the game has to offer.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Kara Hawke
The Scope Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 22:16:31 -
[7] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Kara Hawke wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Why do you deserve to be functionally immune to wardecs from mercenary corps, and why is your corp worth more to the game than any of said merc groups? It ruins the game and drives many people away. I've personally been a part of two corps that have dissolved from constant war decs by superior corps. People left or just stopped logging in when all the game became was sitting in station spinning your ship. So yes, if you want to still be playing the game in a few years, the smaller corps are more important to the game because eventually those players can get more involved in the game and pvp. The currrent system is completely broken, as it stands why even bother forcing corps to pay concord to keep wars active indefinitely, its penny's to large aggressive griefer corps. Given the vast amount of stuff to do in this game, the only ones responsible for those people doing nothing but ship spinning is themselves. Think of a wardec as an opportunity to step outside your narrow little world and experience more that the game has to offer.
I think you people fail to understand that there are some people who can contribute allot to the game that simply cannot defend themselves from some of these better geared, more experienced "merc" corps. There is no learning involved when one of them can absolutely decimate 3 newbies without breaking a sweat and then camp their stationfor days. Obviously EVE is very pvp focused, but why should that mean 9/10 people quitting the game shortly after starting it.
If you want this game to be around for another 10 years you're going to have to extend your very narrow view of the game and accept that EVE shouldn't appeal only to scammers and greifers. |
Kara Hawke
The Scope Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 22:21:58 -
[8] - Quote
Unless of course you're arguing that it's not a problem that these griefing corps have to war dec 10-15 corps just to get anyone to fight them... |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3760
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 22:22:05 -
[9] - Quote
Kara Hawke wrote: I think you people fail to understand that there are some people who can contribute allot to the game that simply cannot defend themselves from some of these better geared, more experienced "merc" corps. There is no learning involved when one of them can absolutely decimate 3 newbies without breaking a sweat and then camp their stationfor days. Obviously EVE is very pvp focused, but why should that mean 9/10 people quitting the game shortly after starting it.
If you want this game to be around for another 10 years you're going to have to extend your very narrow view of the game and accept that EVE shouldn't appeal only to scammers and greifers.
Mercs don't station camp people with no stuff randomly. They only do so because those people have been very very rude to someone with lots of money who is now responding. Also you can just drop corp, move stations, set up a jump clone so you can't get perma camped and rejoin corp if you have to.
Normally all that happens in a War Dec is they camp the trade hubs, and if you advised your newbies to set a medical clone in a trade hub system, well..... you are the one at fault here.
So yes, some people can't 'defend themselves' from those Merc corps, they don't have the SP, Isk, or Guns to do so, but they can just go somewhere else and make it not worth chasing them. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5013
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 22:22:16 -
[10] - Quote
If they're camping a station containing three newbies for a week, why can said newbies not just set their clones back to their starting school stations, which can be done from any clone bay any time with no restrictions, fly somewhere else and continue to play the game in, get this, A DIFFERENT PLACE? |
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PopeUrban
El Expedicion Flames of Exile
257
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 22:22:28 -
[11] - Quote
If you are getting constantly wardecced in your area of space, ******* move somewhere with more chill neighbors.
There is a LOT of space, and you can even build stations in systems that don't have them now. Including one-off hisec pockets in the middle of losec and null!
I assure you nobody is blanket deccing every corp in the game. They're blanket deccing corps that look profitable to shoot at and easy to find targets from. Wardecs are cheap but they aren't free. If you can't get a reasonable amount of content or ISK for the price of a dec it rapidly becomes a giant waste of money. |
Kara Hawke
The Scope Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 22:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
So it's ok that the defenders have to change how they play the game and go through the trouble of moving or removing roles and quiting the corporation, but we can't change how wars work because that will impact the merc corps gameplay. I see.
I think you've been playing too long to remember everything there is to learn in this game and being destroyed by wartargets because they don't understand how the game works is not incentive to stay. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5013
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 22:32:01 -
[13] - Quote
You've asked for mercs and wardeccers to have their playstyle entirely removed, we've suggested you actually react to thier actions and adapt your behaviour to suit your situation.
Which is another thing any group worth it's salt will do in this game.
How do you propose to learn anything about this game if your response to an action you perceive as unfair is to ask for that entire playstyle to be deleted? |
Kara Hawke
The Scope Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 22:42:28 -
[14] - Quote
I don't think I said anything about removing high sec war decs. In fact, I only commented on how broken the system is because it encourages greifing of newer players who don't pvp. There's very little incentives to join high sec player corporations which is why personally 3 of my 4 characters are in a npc corporations. So in fact, mercs play style is what's killing their play style. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3760
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 23:07:03 -
[15] - Quote
Kara Hawke wrote:I don't think I said anything about removing high sec war decs. In fact, I only commented on how broken the system is because it encourages greifing of newer players who don't pvp. There's very little incentives to join high sec player corporations which is why personally 3 of my 4 characters are in a npc corporations. So in fact, mercs play style is what's killing their play style. Even if War Decs were limited 3 out of 4 of your characters would still be in NPC corps. Because the only real reason for a high sec corp is Bounty/Mission tax evasion.
The problem you are trying to solve is not war dec mechanics but corp mechanics. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5013
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 23:14:11 -
[16] - Quote
Kara Hawke wrote:I don't think I said anything about removing high sec war decs. In fact, I only commented on how broken the system is because it encourages greifing of newer players who don't pvp. There's very little incentives to join high sec player corporations which is why personally 3 of my 4 characters are in a npc corporations. So in fact, mercs play style is what's killing their play style.
Limiting these corps to a handful of decs limits the number of targets massively, which is going to essentially delete the merc playstyle. What's the point if you can only have half a dozen targets? You'd dec goons, test, nc., brave and PH, and that'd be your lot.
Wardecs are not griefing. PVP is not griefing. I have been under wardecs pretty much constantly for several years. I do not think this is griefing at all.
There is no way to not PVP in this game, everything is competitive by nature. People who are so afraid of losses that they never leave NPC corps are not going to be the kind of people who stick around for very long in this kind of game. Why should they be pandered to like this?
Why is your flat out refusal to adapt to a hostile environment worth the removal of said environment? |
PopeUrban
El Expedicion Flames of Exile
257
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 23:25:02 -
[17] - Quote
Kara Hawke wrote:I don't think I said anything about removing high sec war decs. In fact, I only commented on how broken the system is because it encourages greifing of newer players who don't pvp. There's very little incentives to join high sec player corporations which is why personally 3 of my 4 characters are in a npc corporations. So in fact, mercs play style is what's killing their play style.
This is not griefing.
According to CCP, undocking is consent to PVP. This is the very reason why wardecs exist, and why CONCORD patrols empire space rather than simply forcing safeties to green. Hisec is not, nor was it ever intended to be completely safe. It is inteded to be safER than low and null.
There is no such thing as "players who don't PvP" in EVE. Only players who prefer to avoid it when possible. If you play EVE, and you use spaceships, you are entering a PvP space.
Your problem is you are not willing to do what is required of you to avoid PvP. |
Kara Hawke
The Scope Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 23:59:19 -
[18] - Quote
Apparently im not getting my point across. It is a problem because this game has a higher turnover rate than McDonalds. CCP may not consider indefinite and unlimited war decs griefing but expecting people who can barely understand the games mechanics to properly organize or fight back against vets who have been playing for years with superior ships is just ignorant. The alpha surge is already dying down. Unless CCP does something to address broken highsec and encourage people to stick around without buying plex to compensate for constant losses it's going to drop to pre expansion numbers and you people will have even less people to dec. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5013
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 00:04:54 -
[19] - Quote
Why do you think wardecs of all things is what drive people away, and what makes you think that people who are incapable of adapting their playstyle to deal with a hostile environment would continue to play a game that is essentially one giant hostile environment?
Perhaps your newbie friends should try joining a real corp until they learnt he mechanics? eve uni is a good (and at least mostly neutral) choice, iirc. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3761
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 01:11:48 -
[20] - Quote
Kara Hawke wrote:Apparently im not getting my point across. It is a problem because this game has a higher turnover rate than McDonalds. CCP may not consider indefinite and unlimited war decs griefing but expecting people who can barely understand the games mechanics to properly organize or fight back against vets who have been playing for years with superior ships is just ignorant. The alpha surge is already dying down. Unless CCP does something to address broken highsec and encourage people to stick around without buying plex to compensate for constant losses it's going to drop to pre expansion numbers and you people will have even less people to dec. People who barely understand the game mechanics shouldn't be trying to run a corp that does something to attract rthe attention of Pirat/etc. They only target juicy options or people who insult them, and it's rare they target someone for more than a week other than the obvious big old groups.
If you've evidence of them deliberately targeting new players to grief them, send it to CCP, don't whinge here about something that is already against the rules. Otherwise work out why you are doing so badly. |
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3633
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 01:14:49 -
[21] - Quote
Kara Hawke wrote:Apparently im not getting my point across. It is a problem because this game has a higher turnover rate than McDonalds. CCP may not consider indefinite and unlimited war decs griefing but expecting people who can barely understand the games mechanics to properly organize or fight back against vets who have been playing for years with superior ships is just ignorant. The alpha surge is already dying down. Unless CCP does something to address broken highsec and encourage people to stick around without buying plex to compensate for constant losses it's going to drop to pre expansion numbers and you people will have even less people to dec.
Why can't they organise? Why can't they defend themselves? Why can't they operate in anyway under a wardec? Where is their leadership?
Starting a corp is consenting to the wardec mechanic. New players who get together and start a corp do so at their own peril. Nothing stopped them joining more experienced organisations who can show them that they don't have to dock up during a dec.
Let's not further destroy a playstyle because of players who don't know what they're doing. As someone mentioned, your issue is with corps and clueless players leading noobs to failure.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
3000
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 06:08:49 -
[22] - Quote
Kara Hawke wrote:Apparently im not getting my point across. It is a problem because this game has a higher turnover rate than McDonalds. CCP may not consider indefinite and unlimited war decs griefing but expecting people who can barely understand the games mechanics to properly organize or fight back against vets who have been playing for years with superior ships is just ignorant. The alpha surge is already dying down. Unless CCP does something to address broken highsec and encourage people to stick around without buying plex to compensate for constant losses it's going to drop to pre expansion numbers and you people will have even less people to dec. Why are you so sure of this? Data presented by CCP Quant and Rise suggest the opposite - that isolating people from the players from the sandbox decreases retention rates and the average time players spend in the game. Making it so new players can get trapped in clueless highsec new player corps that never interact with anyone else seems more likely to put players on a path to quitting then to stay with the game long term.
I am sure that people have quit the game after being wardecced and told to stay logged out. Either reflects the fact that they don't really want to be playing a PvP game, which is therefore a good thing as the wouldn't be likely to stick around that long anyway and can do something else with their time, or that their corp has terrible leadership and we lost a potential long-term Eve player which is a shame. The solution isn't however is to let these terrible corps operate with impunity by nerfing wardecs into irrelevance.
There are probably changes to the mechanic to promote more balance on each side as well as give some space for a purely social corp to exist. That is where you should focus your energies if you truly want to make the game better. Don't propose to remove large parts of the competitive aspect of the game because you don't want to, or are unable to, compete. Competition is the heart of this game.
-1 to your proposal then.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
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Kenrailae
mind games. Suddenly Spaceships.
669
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 06:29:31 -
[23] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Let's not further destroy a playstyle because of players who don't know what they're doing. As someone mentioned, your issue is with corps and clueless players leading noobs to failure.
This right here is why War dec's won't ever be fixed.
Everyone is too busy worrying about the balance of the status quo, poor noobs getting decced in high sec, poor deccers who can't use watchlist anymore.
This game is going on 14 years old. Play styles come and go and must change as the game itself changes. How bout them ishtars, eh? Or even something we take as a concrete fixture these days, Concord?
Because of this, it's impossible to discuss the actual problems, because as soon as one tries, everyone and their brother does exactly what's going on here.
http://puu.sh/sI9qL/8d3a1ceba8.jpg
This is not good 'gameplay' for anybody, no matter how you try to spin it. But go ahead, let's keep going on about how the status quo is just fine, I'm sure that will get it fixed.
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3633
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 14:09:17 -
[24] - Quote
Ken, all that is is some numbers. On its own the amount of wars a corp has is not an indicator of anyone having fun or not. It is entirely possible that every one of those wars to have plenty of activity and even fights where the defenders have fun. Thats why, along some other reasons, im against just putting a limit to the amount of decs a corp/alliance can make.
The reason we expect those decs to be crappy blanket decs has a lot to do with different features to dec limit. And a lot of the people arguing against the op here are actually not happy with the status quo either. I'm not. Ralph especially isn't fond of blanket deccing.
Kara Hawke is someone who thinks nerfing wardecs into the ground will make the game a fun and safe place to play and subs will go up. She thinks players will enter into pvp later if they are allowed to grow. Problem with that is, it's not meant to be a safe place to play and players rarely enter pvp later. Instead the opposite of what she thinks happens, they just 'level up their raven and quit'. Where as those who get shot at, stay with the game. When wardecs were cheaper, more frequent, less biased towards the defender and hunters could see the moment you logged on, the game subscriptions grew every year. It WAS new players that were deccing other corps and learning to hunt and pvp. And more of these players stuck around.
So yeah, every time someone says 'war decs are mean -something something, think of the children-. Nerfing them will make the game better'. Im gonna pile on. The 'children' used to love the wardec mechanic.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Ripoff Works
442
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 16:27:15 -
[25] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Ken, all that is is some numbers. On its own the amount of wars a corp has is not an indicator of anyone having fun or not. It is entirely possible that every one of those wars to have plenty of activity and even fights where the defenders have fun. Thats why, along some other reasons, im against just putting a limit to the amount of decs a corp/alliance can make.
The reason we expect those decs to be crappy blanket decs has a lot to do with different features to dec limit. And a lot of the people arguing against the op here are actually not happy with the status quo either. I'm not. Ralph especially isn't fond of blanket deccing.
Kara Hawke is someone who thinks nerfing wardecs into the ground will make the game a fun and safe place to play and subs will go up. She thinks players will enter into pvp later if they are allowed to grow. Problem with that is, it's not meant to be a safe place to play and players rarely enter pvp later. Instead the opposite of what she thinks happens, they just 'level up their raven and quit'. Where as those who get shot at, stay with the game. When wardecs were cheaper, more frequent, less biased towards the defender and hunters could see the moment you logged on, the game subscriptions grew every year. It WAS new players that were deccing other corps and learning to hunt and pvp. And more of these players stuck around.
So yeah, every time someone says 'war decs are mean -something something, think of the children-. Nerfing them will make the game better'. Im gonna pile on. The 'children' used to love the wardec mechanic.
As one of those people who "grew up" in Eve doing wardecs, I second this. If I had kept doing what I was doing and stayed in the carebear corp I was in, I would've quit the game a long time ago. There is a reason why I'm still here after 7 years, and it ain't the carebear playstyle. |
Kenrailae
mind games. Suddenly Spaceships.
670
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 20:38:48 -
[26] - Quote
My 'Teeth cutting' into PVP was also war decs. I started in one of those corps being founded and ran by a nub, who knew nothing and lost stupid crap all over the place. We ended up being constantly at war, until we got tired of it, broke off, formed our own corp, and became the guys war deccing others.
But those war decs weren't part of a 70+ War dec everything that comes through the Perimeter gate campaign. They were small, localized affairs designed at finding an active group in an area and war deccing them. This meant sometimes we moved around a bit. Not huge moves I've become used to since joining Suddenly, but moving a region or two one way or another. This meant spending 3-4 days sometimes sitting in traffic areas watching people, checking KB's, member counts, etc, looking for someone we thought would be active and big enough to try to fight, but that we still had a reasonable chance of beating.
Yes this sometimes meant station games. Yes, we hit towers from time to time. And yes, we occasionally had targets move across new eden. And we followed.
That's what war decs should be aiming to achieve. And if the game has changed so much that they cannot do that function anymore, then they need taken apart completely and rebuilt from the ground up. Continuously clinging to a dead and gone system because it's what you've always done is as anti-eve as you can get. How's Black Legion doing these days anyway?
You're telling me that is all just some numbers?
Well no. That's one example of a blanket war dec system being in place. Occasionally there are a few peeps that roam around, but they're the exception. We've been one of those 96 active war decs for closing on a month. Why? Because someone flew an alliance JF into Jita, and someone else forgot about the war, and flew another one into Perimeter before seeing the war targets and jumping back out. There was no scouting out our local activity, looking at our pilots depth and ability, looking for any of our vulnerable industry corps, or seizing on an opportunity like an onlining citadel. It was just because someone flew an in alliance JF through Jita. It doesn't bother me, I gave into game of Alts years ago so can still do all my stuff just fine. You'd have to figure out how to war dec a couple NPC corps and war dec a few alt corps all at the same time to start bothering me with war decs. But that doesn't mean I can't look at the system and see it's very much broken and why.
But the status quo is preferable to any progress being made on fixing the system, short of CCP giving into a bunch of salt and giving high seccers more special protections/rules and letting them have agents that tell you literally the one single most important piece of information and biggest violation of privacy a game can give you in the context of the game, whether someone is online or not.
Lemme know if you wanna actually talk about the problems. Until then I'm done here.
In response to OP, I'm for limiting war decs, as part of one of many changes that need made to the war dec system to restore war decs to what they need to be. Not because high sec needs to be safer, but because war decs need more of a purpose than just sitting in Jita and war deccing everything that comes through. +1
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3633
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 22:31:07 -
[27] - Quote
Arden Elenduil wrote:
As one of those people who "grew up" in Eve doing wardecs, I second this. If I had kept doing what I was doing and stayed in the carebear corp I was in, I would've quit the game a long time ago. There is a reason why I'm still here after 7 years, and it ain't the carebear playstyle.
Absolutely. If it wasn't for that very special, yet disturbing, corp (you know the one) picking me up as a noob, i honestly wouldn't be here.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Iain Cariaba
3351
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 23:39:52 -
[28] - Quote
Why do we need further nerfs to resolve a situation that is the direct result of multiple nerfs in the first place?
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3762
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 00:11:59 -
[29] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Why do we need further nerfs to resolve a situation that is the direct result of multiple nerfs in the first place? Except, you know, it isn't. The War Dec spamming was happening and slowly growing before all these 'nerfs' people claim created the problem. Because various groups had worked out it was a low effort way for them to get their fun. Great for them, it's legit, camping trade hubs for juicy war targets is hardly griefing newbies or station camping people for weeks so who cares that it happens, it's not really a big deal, sometimes people forget and they die, oh well.
As always the problem with 'War Decs' is utterly unrelated to war decs and entirely related to the lack of meaning for High Sec corps. With the new structures there was hope, but then CCP applied double nerfs to them in High Sec, with incredibly weak high sec defence (Since most of the defence power comes from the AOE weapons) & weaker statistics directly also. So look to corp incentives as the problem, not the war mechanics. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2383
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 13:29:46 -
[30] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Kara Hawke wrote:I don't think I said anything about removing high sec war decs. In fact, I only commented on how broken the system is because it encourages greifing of newer players who don't pvp. There's very little incentives to join high sec player corporations which is why personally 3 of my 4 characters are in a npc corporations. So in fact, mercs play style is what's killing their play style. Limiting these corps to a handful of decs limits the number of targets massively, which is going to essentially delete the merc playstyle. What's the point if you can only have half a dozen targets? You'd dec goons, test, nc., brave and PH, and that'd be your lot. Wardecs are not griefing. PVP is not griefing. I have been under wardecs pretty much constantly for several years. I do not think this is griefing at all. There is no way to not PVP in this game, everything is competitive by nature. People who are so afraid of losses that they never leave NPC corps are not going to be the kind of people who stick around for very long in this kind of game. Why should they be pandered to like this? Why is your flat out refusal to adapt to a hostile environment worth the removal of said environment?
I think you are confusing mercenary and mercenary work with 'player farming'. There is a difference. Mercing was great and good for the game. Player farming sux and isn't good for the game. The continual onslaught of recommended changes (spanning awesome, good, bad to downright horrible) have a lot to do with current war dec mechanics. Currently the only smart move in HS pvp is to mass dec and farm players. That's what the current mechanics dictate and that's what current HS pvp folks do. This is not rocket science. Bad mechanics need to become good ones. The game (specifically HS pvp in this case) needs to be challenging, fun and interesting. Currently HS pvp isn't a healthy combination of these attributes. It could be and should be more.
If anyone is claiming that deccing the 6 largest player groups and 4 additional groups doesn't provide enough targets, then they are lazy and sux at eve. Carrying 100+ decs coupled with player assists in its current form HAS reduced HS pvp to player farming. It sux.
If you can't see and understand the difference between mercing and player farming, you're really not worth the time to argue with. |
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