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Vito Tattaglia
New Paradigm Inc.
3
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Posted - 2011.12.25 03:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
I know that missiles are frowned upon in PvP, but since I'm Caldari that what I use primarily. As the day the my corp moves to Low-Sec gets closer and closer, I find myself wondering, if I shouldn't use missiles, what should I use instead? |
Kiyl
YOU ARE ALL DOOMED Double Tap.
4
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Posted - 2011.12.25 04:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Since when have Missiles been frowned upon in PvP?
Edit: Maybe large scale fleet fights, but not small gangs/solo. |
Vito Tattaglia
New Paradigm Inc.
3
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Posted - 2011.12.25 04:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kiyl wrote:Since when have Missiles been frowned upon in PvP?
Edit: Maybe large scale fleet fights, but not small gangs/solo.
Everybody rags on them since they take a while for them to hit the targets. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
17
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Posted - 2011.12.25 04:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vito Tattaglia wrote:Kiyl wrote:Since when have Missiles been frowned upon in PvP?
Edit: Maybe large scale fleet fights, but not small gangs/solo. Everybody rags on them since they take a while for them to hit the targets.
Move to a corp that's not full of mouthbreathers unless your corp exclusively uses sniper fleets. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
164
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Posted - 2011.12.25 05:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
I agree, if you're in a corporation that insists that missiles are bad you should find a less ignorant corproation. |
Dradius Calvantia
Creative Cookie Procuring Rote Kapelle
176
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Posted - 2011.12.25 05:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
In some situations, missiles work perfectly fine. They have their advantages and disadvantages just like every other weapon systems.
The important things to remember when using missiles are:
99% of the time, faction missiles are better than using either of the T2 variants Using Crash is pretty much required when shooting at ships of a smaller class You will usually have the range advantage, use it (Too many HML drake pilots just let close range ships sit on their face) Missiles DPS usually receives a larger advantage from painters and webs, do not forget to comp them You are useless in an Alpha fleet. If a missile boat is all you have, fill a support role instead
Missile ships that work just fine in PVP:
PodLa (Nano) Drake Most other Drake variants CN Hookbill Worm Merlin HAM Legion Caracal (For some lol anti-frig fits) Nuet Phoon
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Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
66
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Posted - 2011.12.25 05:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Keep in mind that the second most popular pvp ship in the game is the Drake, thats 100% missile boat last time I checked.
There are many, MANY versions of a Pvp Drake, learn then and there tactics. Drop your current corp as they really don't know the power of the Drake Train! |
Vito Tattaglia
New Paradigm Inc.
3
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Posted - 2011.12.25 06:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
It's actually not my corp that is ragging on missiles, it's just what I picked up while reading the Evelopedia. |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
66
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Posted - 2011.12.25 07:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Try something on TQ before you write it off. Personal experience is far greater than reading about it and listening to stories. Decide for yourself if you think something is effective or not. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
224
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Posted - 2011.12.25 08:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vito Tattaglia wrote:I know that missiles are frowned upon in PvP, but since I'm Caldari that what I use primarily. As the day the my corp moves to Low-Sec gets closer and closer, I find myself wondering, if I shouldn't use missiles, what should I use instead? Just because your character is Caldari doesn't mean you can only fly Caldari ships. Any character can train for any ship in game and be just as good with it.
Training another race's (subcap) ships shouldn't take more than a few days, and training another weapon system maybe a week or two. |
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Shaalira D'arc
Quantum Cats Syndicate
273
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Posted - 2011.12.25 08:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Fly with what you're comfortable and used to using, then branch out (if you feel the need) after you gain some experience.
As pointed out already, the Drake is a popular and common PvP ship. It's easy to train into, and relatively cost-effective.
If you're completely new to PvP, though, I'd recommend flying frigates, destroyers and t1 cruisers to get your feet wet. Your (probable) initial losses won't be as costly and you can focus on learning from each experience. Merlins, Kestrals, and Caracals are viable options for a new player.
Since your corp is moving to low-sec, read the classic Beginner's Guide to Piracy. Even if you have no plans of going pirate, the guide offers lessons in low-sec navigation, dscan use, and target selection that are universally useful. |
Mutnin
Mutineers
3
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Posted - 2011.12.25 14:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Missiles are pretty handy in many PVP situations as they are not dependent on capacitor nor are they affected by tracking disruptors. The draw backs with say a HML drake is they don't pump out a lot of DPS so they generally require numbers to be effective. HAM drakes on the other hand can pump out a lot of DPS but lack the range of HML's so it's all a matter of picking the right tool for the job.
With frigs Rockets when combined with webs are pretty dam effective now days. Example a Dual web Hookbil can eat a Dramiel alive.
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Torin Corax
Zebra Corp
21
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Posted - 2011.12.25 16:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kiyl wrote:Since when have Missiles been frowned upon in PvP?
Edit: Maybe large scale fleet fights, but not small gangs/solo.
Pretty much this^ For long range sniper fights they may be frowned on due to travel time, but in many situations they are a positive benefit. Missile boats tend to be hard targets for some of the nastier recons for example. Pilgrim and curse pilots may think twice before attacking you (not a guarantee ofc.) as tracking disruption is one of their bonused e-war, and this has no effect on missiles.
Missiles are also the only weapon system (other than drones under specific circumstances) that can allow you to continue firing while jammed. Not a great DPS output perhaps, but better than any turret user is going to get in those circumstances.
If I had an inappropriate signature, it would be removed from here By. Spitfire |
drdxie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2011.12.25 23:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
I have a PvP toon in null, and I prefer the drake to the harby, even if the harby has better paper dps. In many small fleet battles the drakes out dps the cane's as they don't always hit 100% with each shot due to tracking. Canes will often get the final blow as they have a higher rate of fire. Range is your friend and a nano drake will outrun a plated harby and will beat him most times. Also a drake is very seldom primaried first.. so you will be a round for more kills. Cant use t2 ac's so never tried a cane, but am in no hurry to change. |
Aessaya
Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings
21
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Posted - 2011.12.26 02:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Missiles are perfectly good for pvp, mainly because of range advantage (they deal solid damage up till the max flight range which can get ludicriously hight for some ships), ability to tailor damage to the target (you can swotch to any damage type, especially if your ship does not have a specific damage type bonus) and the fact that they are not affected by transversal velocity.
Keep in mind though, that for heavier missiles not only the ship siganture but ship's linear speed also affect the damage, so you'd want to keep enemy as slow as possible. This as well makes them perfect for small fast ships. So for guided missiles i'd generally go with the painter and stasis web for the unguided ones. Guided missiles are the Light, Heavy and Cruise variations, while unguided ones are the Rockets, Heavy Assaults and Torpedoes. Also be aware that Guided Missile Precision skill and explosion radius rigs affect only the guided variety and have no effect on the unguided ones.
Also a lot of pilots underestimate missile boats, much to their own doom (and my fun, lol).
/proud pilot of HAM legion
edit: @Dradius Calvantia - you have missed the Tengu :) Ah, you seek meaning?-áThen listen to the music, not the song. |
Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
37
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Posted - 2011.12.26 19:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dradius Calvantia wrote:In some situations, missiles work perfectly fine. They have their advantages and disadvantages just like every other weapon systems.
The important things to remember when using missiles are:
99% of the time, faction missiles are better than using either of the T2 variants
Ignore this - Rage works fine for same ship classes (HML Furies vs Battlecruisers hit for full damage) and are thus significantly better to use than Faction missiles. Keep Faction in the launchers and swap to Furies when y |
Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
37
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Posted - 2011.12.26 19:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dradius Calvantia wrote:In some situations, missiles work perfectly fine. They have their advantages and disadvantages just like every other weapon systems.
The important things to remember when using missiles are:
99% of the time, faction missiles are better than using either of the T2 variants
Ignore this - Rage works fine for same ship classes (HML Furies vs Battlecruisers hit for full damage) and are thus significantly better to use than Faction missiles. Keep Faction in the launchers and swap to Furies if there aren't many frigates around. |
ValentinaDLM
Unofficial Master Kuvakei Fan Club
422
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Posted - 2011.12.26 20:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
I have an alt that only has missiles trained as a weapons system, granted they spend more time flying a Falcon or Blackbird, but at no point have I felt the need to have then stop and train a different weapon system. Not only are missiles nice but, the drake is a heck of a nice ship at a low price that does a myriad of tasks decently. |
BearJews
YOU BETTER
6
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Posted - 2011.12.27 17:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hawk, crow (kinda sticks compared to other interce), caracal, caracal navy issue, all the recons, drakes, nighhawks, ravens are all legit in pvp.
I wouldn't say as great as winmitar for pvp, but if you have some balls and a willingness to fight when other assume you will run, you can get some really nice kills.
phear da HAMMY drake. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
166
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Posted - 2011.12.27 20:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
The Amarr T2 missile ships are pretty good too. They have the advantage of not using their medslots for tank so you can fit webs and possibly painters. Typhoons with torps are great too. |
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Alaric Faelen
Aquila Venatici Bringers of Death.
21
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Posted - 2011.12.28 17:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
I'm primarily a missile user too and no one complains in my corp. The Drake is still the shining gem for us- Nanodrakes are always welcomed in any fleet I've been in, and with a module swap or two and T1 ammo- it's a 'win button' PvE ship to whip thru the grind to get back out to melting faces in PvP. Anti-frigate Caracals, Nanodrakes, Stealth Bombers (the first T2 hull I trained for), etc.....missile users get to breeze thru PvE that much faster and have some of the core make up of many PvP fleets. Given a missile heavy fleet- one guy with a TP essentially gives a boost to the entire fleet's weapon systems. Tracking disruption means nothing to you. We don't get instant alpha, true. But missiles are hardly as useless in PvP as the blogs and such would have you believe.
TBH, I haven't met anyone in my corp or alliance that isn't thrilled just to have another active PvP pilot actually willing to pew pew. Being good at fighting is WAY more important than what you aim at the other guy. Stick with missile skills- specializing in one thing is better than splitting between a 'PvE only' weapon and "PvP' only one. (I'm guilty of this myself, learn from my mistake- don't waste time cross training until you have mastered one thing) |
Fidelium Mortis
Quantum Cats Syndicate
6
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Posted - 2011.12.28 20:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
No love for the nano-HAM cerb or nano-HML navy caracal? They are both kind of non-standard fits but work well especially given people rarely fly against them. ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon |
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