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Haffsol
62
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Posted - 2016.12.09 17:18:56 -
[1] - Quote
What happens when wardec happens at those using a public Citadel or EC? Do they get a mail too or at least a notification?
Is there a way to know if a corp owning one of those structures has been wardecced, meaning if it's in the 24 hrs _before_ the war actually starts? Afaik in the "war" tab in the corp information thingy only active or past wars are listed so nothing about an incoming war in the next 24 (or less) hrs. Right? Wrong?
Is it possible to move your stuff out during the shield reinforce time (6 days iirc) or you have to wait for the structure to be completely repaired or destroied? I knew it was possible to deliver jobs in that time, but I don't remember where I read it. If someone can confirm this one too that'd be good. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2854
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Posted - 2016.12.09 17:37:43 -
[2] - Quote
Haffsol wrote:What happens when wardec happens at those using a public Citadel or EC? Do they get a mail too or at least a notification?
Is there a way to know if a corp owning one of those structures has been wardecced, meaning if it's in the 24 hrs _before_ the war actually starts? Afaik in the "war" tab in the corp information thingy only active or past wars are listed so nothing about an incoming war in the next 24 (or less) hrs. Right? Wrong?
Is it possible to move your stuff out during the shield reinforce time (6 days iirc) or you have to wait for the structure to be completely repaired or destroied? I knew it was possible to deliver jobs in that time, but I don't remember where I read it. If someone can confirm this one too that'd be good.
AFAIK you won't get a notification, but it is trivial to just check the owning corps war information. You could also very easily monitor this through CREST if you were so inclined. Not 100% sure pending wars show up.
Shield reinforcement does not affect the functionality of the structure. It is a 24 hour timer. After the armor is broken comes the 6 day timer, and that will halt service modules.
Not sure if anything changed with this, but at least in initial sisi testing it was possible to cancel in-progress jobs during the armor timer. Not sure about delivering. I would expect not.
To date, exactly 2 highsec ECs have been destroyed, so I'd say they're fairly low-risk. Most jobs can simply be installed "around" the vuln timer, if you're still that concerned.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Haffsol
62
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Posted - 2016.12.10 07:58:24 -
[3] - Quote
Ok well, so the golden rule of highsec manufacturing about "start jobs longer than 24hrs at your own risk" could be changed into "start jobs longer than 48hrs at your own risk". Sounds good to me.
Last bit of information: is there a way to know how vulnerability windows are set for a specific structure? I know they are fixed in terms of hrs per week, but for instance an Astrahus can be set to have a single window of 3 hrs or 3 smaller windows of 1 hr (dunno if you can split hrs like in 2 of 1.5 hrs tbh). |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3138
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Posted - 2016.12.10 10:43:02 -
[4] - Quote
You only see in public the current window, whether it's vulnerable or not and how long till the next window.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Fulbert
The Scope Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2016.12.10 10:47:14 -
[5] - Quote
Haffsol wrote: Last bit of information: is there a way to know how vulnerability windows are set for a specific structure? I know they are fixed in terms of hrs per week, but for instance an Astrahus can be set to have a single window of 3 hrs or 3 smaller windows of 1 hr (dunno if you can split hrs like in 2 of 1.5 hrs tbh).
The minimal duration of a vuln. window is 1 hr. You can split the 9hr weekly vuln of the Raitary into 9x 1hr, 3x 3hrs, 4h + 5h etc.., at your convenience As Tipa Riot said, other people will only see the remaining time before the next window. They'll have to figure out what the planning is. |
Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
285
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Posted - 2016.12.10 21:58:23 -
[6] - Quote
Haffsol wrote:Ok well, so the golden rule of highsec manufacturing about "start jobs longer than 24hrs at your own risk" could be changed into "start jobs longer than 48hrs at your own risk". Sounds good to me.
However, there is still the risk that the owner doesn't provide fuel for the manufacturing service module (your jobs will stop and you can't cancel them without losing your material, you can just cross fingers or urge the owner that he provides fuel again), or, even worse, that he simply unfits the service module (your jobs will cancel and material is lost immediately).
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T'asha Blightsea
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.12.16 17:55:53 -
[7] - Quote
Kolmogorow wrote:or, even worse, that he simply unfits the service module (your jobs will cancel and material is lost immediately).
This is what happened to me yesterday, lost about 2bil... is there any chance that I can get it back? |
Haffsol
64
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Posted - 2016.12.16 19:01:05 -
[8] - Quote
Looks like a borked mechanic to me. Not to CCP I reckon. |
Scarlett LaBlanc
Midnight Savran Industries
175
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Posted - 2016.12.16 19:50:32 -
[9] - Quote
T'asha Blightsea wrote:Kolmogorow wrote:or, even worse, that he simply unfits the service module (your jobs will cancel and material is lost immediately).
This is what happened to me yesterday, lost about 2bil... is there any chance that I can get it back?
No, I don't think there is any chance of that. It was not a bug, just the proper functioning of the game mechanic.
It's just a matter of risk vs. reward. You risked the 2 billion in mats to have the reward of using a structure you did not pay for.
Myself, I would have gotten to know the owning corp before starting a job(s) of that size. Not that it would make you feel any better, I imagine your experience is going to be somewhat rare. |
T'asha Blightsea
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.12.16 20:01:32 -
[10] - Quote
Well, I'm a returning player, so I've got the isk but missing the knowledge apparently... did not think that something like that might happen, since it doesn't make any sense. Why not just return the mats to the producer? If it is really intended like that, it completely breaks using other ppls stations for me. If the owner of the station feels like ruining me, he can just unfit his service modules. Completely stupid. |
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Cecil Oppenheimer
Uti Possidetis
0
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Posted - 2016.12.17 03:32:18 -
[11] - Quote
Actually ECs are a bit more broken than you realise.
I run a public Raitaru and I have no visibility of whether jobs are currently running on my EC or not.
I can see the job fees in my corp wallet, and know when they started and by whom, but have no idea whether the jobs are still active or were installed for 1 hour or 1 month.
Neither can I even see what type of job was kicked off and hence what modules are being used or not.
As a player who does mostly Indy, I understand your frustration, but don't assume the EC operator is a baddie, we're flying completely blind...
CO |
Scarlett LaBlanc
Midnight Savran Industries
175
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Posted - 2016.12.17 04:49:13 -
[12] - Quote
Cecil Oppenheimer wrote:
Neither can I even see what type of job was kicked off and hence what modules are being used or not.
As a player who does mostly Indy, I understand your frustration, but don't assume the EC operator is a baddie, we're flying completely blind...
CO
That is seriously bad juju.
At the very least I would expect you to get an "Are you sure you want to do this warning?" when you try to remove a service.
A dialog box that said "WARNING, removing this service module will cancel XX# of jobs currently in progress" would at lest let the owner know what they were doing. |
Titanium Vokan
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2016.12.18 07:19:01 -
[13] - Quote
Don't know anything about EC's but surely there's some oversights here in the configuration.
There should be options to configure them for:
No new jobs - so it keeps running until the last job has finished. Limit job length so people can't put in 30 day jobs if you are thinking of changing things in the fairly close future. The ability to see how many jobs are running - and finish date.
One of these days I'll probably re-sub an account and have a dabble with industry again but at the moment I've not got the time.
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Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
286
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Posted - 2016.12.18 14:57:25 -
[14] - Quote
T'asha Blightsea wrote:Well, I'm a returning player, so I've got the isk but missing the knowledge apparently... did not think that something like that might happen, since it doesn't make any sense. Why not just return the mats to the producer? If it is really intended like that, it completely breaks using other ppls stations for me. If the owner of the station feels like ruining me, he can just unfit his service modules. Completely stupid.
I think, not only returning players will fall into that trap. I doubt that this mechanic is well-known. I discovered it more or less accidentally when I did a few tests on SiSi, since I got no convincing answers how it actually works. I had luck finishing my live production jobs without loss but will think twice to start a new expensive batch in a public EC.
Most corps who build an EC in high sec and make the services public don't have bad intentions, I believe. They just don't have the tools to change services without destroying the property of somebody else accidentally. At least there should be some way to shut down a service module in a safe way. Simple things would already help, like a flag that the owner can set to disallow starting new jobs and just displaying to them when the last job will finish - and of course proper warnings when they try to shut down the service.
You didn't get a mail when your jobs were canceled, the jobs were simply gone, right? How can you know that the owner removed the service module (and perhaps added it again afterwards, so that it looks like the manufacturing plant was available without interruption)? Disappearing jobs look like a bug to me... I would write a bug report. Maybe they blush at least if they should answer, "that's not a bug, but a feature". Maybe it isn't actually a feature, who knows? The help center still doesn't know what ECs are and how they are supposed to work and it says that production in citadels isn't available yet.
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HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1830
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Posted - 2016.12.19 09:58:12 -
[15] - Quote
I don`t see any difference between a POS and an EC.
It is the same risk, like a public manufacturing POS would have got.
In my opinion, it is a wanted "feature", that you can make players lose their ISK with a simple click :)
Imagine, the owner of the huge public tradehubs in Perimeter decide to remove public docking access and remove the market module.
All the PLEX and skill injectors stored / traded there, would be banned for at least 9 days (1 day wardec, 8 days of shield / armor and hull reinforce and at least the invulnerbility timer) |
Huttan Funaila
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
380
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Posted - 2016.12.25 07:13:28 -
[16] - Quote
I think that the "forgot to put fuel in" is the largest risk that players using citadels/EC have. An option to let players outside the corporation add fuel (perhaps right click, "add fuel") would mitigate the risk. I have encountered a number of citadels in high sec that had T2 reprocessing rigs where the reprocessing module goes offline several weeks later. There is no way for the owners to charge for reprocessing/compressing, so it becomes a net loss if they themselves are not using the services.
An option to let other players add fuel would be a simple way to tip owners of citadels and to keep services going when the owners themselves go offline. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3195
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Posted - 2016.12.25 09:16:01 -
[17] - Quote
That would be a "bring your own fuel" model. Sounds feasible, I think the access lists would allow the role of a fuel manager to be public ... needs to be tested, especially regarding unwanted side effects.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1832
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Posted - 2016.12.25 17:43:42 -
[18] - Quote
The new structures have got an infinite fuel bay. A POS was limited to around 30 days.
A module costs around 3M ISK fuel per day. 1B ISK of fuel, will let run ONE modul for nearly one year... |
Les Routiers
Proudly Snoring Game Of Anomalies
20
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Posted - 2016.12.26 15:48:23 -
[19] - Quote
Huttan Funaila wrote:I think that the "forgot to put fuel in" is the largest risk that players using citadels/EC have. An option to let players outside the corporation add fuel (perhaps right click, "add fuel") would mitigate the risk. I have encountered a number of citadels in high sec that had T2 reprocessing rigs where the reprocessing module goes offline several weeks later. There is no way for the owners to charge for reprocessing/compressing, so it becomes a net loss if they themselves are not using the services.
An option to let other players add fuel would be a simple way to tip owners of citadels and to keep services going when the owners themselves go offline.
Upvoting the dirty Goon, here
One drawback is at the moment I believe you need to sink in 3 days' worth of fuel to get a service module online, and *then* you must pay the fuel to keep it online. So the system does not reward on demand reprocessing, but an option for the citadel / EC owner to let outsiders add fuel would be great.
http://fr.capstable.net/ - podcast en français sur Eve online.
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Tatanka Startamer
Rio Nova
25
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Posted - 2016.12.28 16:46:29 -
[20] - Quote
HandelsPharmi wrote:In my opinion, it is a wanted "feature", that you can make players lose their ISK with a simple click :)
I think you're missing the point. Nobody says you shouldn't be allowed to do this. What people want is a way to avoid doing this if that was not the intention.
If you purposely WANT people to lose their jobs/mats, would it kill you to have to click twice (once to uninstall, once to confirm that, yes, you know jobs are running)?
Tat |
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Dracones
Tarsis Inc
49
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Posted - 2017.01.01 18:28:52 -
[21] - Quote
There are going to be quite a few broken mechanics with citadels that'll be obvious over the next 6 months. I saw one person already using them to "scam" people into getting plex into space. They have a citadel 1 jump off of Dod with the highest plex buy prices, but the market hub is down there. So you go to station, redeem plex, and can't fulfill the buy order because the market module is offline. Good luck jumping it back to Dod.
In 6 months space is going to be littered with citadels that have no fuel in them and no active modules. Trying to find 1 for refining, 1 for research, 1 for building(because the way rigs work is all F'd up) that are actually online will be a nightmare. I guess if nothing else they'll be useful as a cheap corporate office while you still work out of your POS in system.
I don't particularly blame CCP for the issues. They build the toys, we break them. I just hope it doesn't take 3+ years for them to get around to working the kinks out.
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HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1832
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Posted - 2017.01.01 22:36:29 -
[22] - Quote
Dracones wrote:There are going to be quite a few broken mechanics with citadels that'll be obvious over the next 6 months. I saw one person already using them to "scam" people into getting plex into space. They have a citadel 1 jump off of Dod with the highest plex buy prices, but the market hub is down there. So you go to station, redeem plex, and can't fulfill the buy order because the market module is offline. Good luck jumping it back to Dod.
In 6 months space is going to be littered with citadels that have no fuel in them and no active modules. Trying to find 1 for refining, 1 for research, 1 for building(because the way rigs work is all F'd up) that are actually online will be a nightmare. I guess if nothing else they'll be useful as a cheap corporate office while you still work out of your POS in system.
I don't particularly blame CCP for the issues. They build the toys, we break them. I just hope it doesn't take 3+ years for them to get around to working the kinks out.
I totally agree with you, in the point of "space will be littered".
There are so many offline POS, but they are limited to the number of moons available in the system.
If you have got 100B ISK, just spam Perimeter with 100 complexes just to advertise your corp / alliance ^^ |
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