Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Buckeroo Bonzai
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 02:09:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Nyphur So where do you draw the line? If it's an exploit to kill someone in a cosmos complex by remote repping the NPCs, is it an exploit to tank those same npcs, kill any scramblers and let them respawn until they are all attacking you but not scrambling, fly over to someone and warp out so that they scramble and kill your target? Is it then an exploit to warp out while tanking npcs if someone is nearby? Could you be banned for tanking a cosmos complex and finishing up for the night, not noticing a frigate flying around nearby? What about someone flying around you deliberately so they can file a petition when you warp out, forcing you to stay there or get yourself banned?
My point is that this line of thinking opens itself to harassment, depending on where exactly the line is drawn. What's needed is not rules and bans for exploitation of the game mechanics, the game mechanic itself needs to be fixed. The simplest and most effective fix is to make remote repairers simply not work on NPCs.
I agree 100% that is the way to go.
|
Wendat Huron
Lupus Industries
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 02:16:00 -
[32]
Cut cosmos off from NPC corporations.
|
Jebe
Gallente White Nova Industries
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 02:36:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Wendat Huron Cut cosmos off from NPC corporations.
I honestly like that idea ;)
But honesty, its a very small few people who are doing this, and it would be unfair to punish all the rest.
I've lost an ishkur to this and a friend lost a cerberus.
I think at the very least Shield Transporters and Remote Armor Repair modules should NOT BE ALLOWED to work on NPCs.
/signed
|
Nanobotter Mk2
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 02:36:00 -
[34]
"Exactly if they got flagged and you could shoot at them if would be different. But as it is now all you need is a T1 frig with a shield transfer and you can kill anyone or rather help the rats kill them with no risk to yourself. "
How so? it is no different than suicide gankers, who sit there camped at the gates, untouchable. If suicide ganking is legit than so is reping rats, even if the people are untouchable because they are in npc corps...
|
Nanobotter Mk2
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 02:38:00 -
[35]
"Cut cosmos off from NPC corporations."
sure right after you cut off 0.0 corps from empire.
|
Sergio Ling
Slacker Industries
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 02:41:00 -
[36]
that's no exploit
it's griefing poetry _ Your sig is pwn - Eris
*snip* This is a english speeking forum, for moderation perposes - hutch |
Buckeroo Bonzai
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 02:46:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "Exactly if they got flagged and you could shoot at them if would be different. But as it is now all you need is a T1 frig with a shield transfer and you can kill anyone or rather help the rats kill them with no risk to yourself. "
How so? it is no different than suicide gankers, who sit there camped at the gates, untouchable. If suicide ganking is legit than so is reping rats, even if the people are untouchable because they are in npc corps...
Suicide gankers run the risk of losing thier ship repping rats is ZERO risk. And suicide gankers attack you directly they dont use rats to do there dirty work.
|
Rooker
Dark-Rising Fallen Souls
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 03:23:00 -
[38]
I can't think of a single thing you might do about this under the current mechanics. That certainly sounds like an unbalanced situation and should be dealt with now that its been discovered.
The best way to balance this probably is to make the person doing the repping flagged against the corporation of the person fighting with the rats, same as if a war target were being repped by a neutral. That would let the players deal with the problem instead of anything being nerfed or unnecessarily disabled.
|
Miraxiam
Gallente Argent Industries
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 03:43:00 -
[39]
Hahahahha... oh
HAHAHAHHA
I think it's funny.
|
dennyreborn
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 04:01:00 -
[40]
two options abound here.
1. if CCP decide to allow Repping NPCs. (some events have protect a NPC as a job so repping might be a needing thing here but then again those are different NPCs') In which case CCP needs to make the NPC repper flag to everyone. most other MMORGs that use flagging systems for PVP do that if you buff/heal a mob then you flag. this of course will lead to the reppers having gang mates in BS ready to shoot all who comes to shoots the repper. but hey more PVP in the empire Cosmos systems would be a good thing.
2. disallow repping of NPCs. this might effect events and such but this will end the issue once and for all. several MMORGs that don't use a flag system or don't have pvp do this.
|
|
Dal Thrax
Caldari Multiverse Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 04:09:00 -
[41]
So first report on April 10th. Lets see how long it takes for this to replace ore stealing as the prefered way to grief miners in high sec.
Dal
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. delaying startup again. soon as i have time i will fill you in on the details
|
Sorela
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 05:54:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Why would repairing NPC:s be an exploit?
I assume this is happening in empire? The exploit would be avoiding being concorded for a hostile action. CCP has said many times that if you somehow find a bug that lets you avoid being concorded then that is an exploit.
This case seems pretty clear cut to me.
|
Sorela
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 05:58:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Dal Thrax So first report on April 10th. Lets see how long it takes for this to replace ore stealing as the prefered way to grief miners in high sec.
Dal
I doubt it will replace ore stealing considering everyone in this thread knows CCP is going to call it an exploit and warn/ban people for doing it. Some might argue that CCP is wrong when it happens but everyone here knows it's going to happen. Unless they fix it first.
|
Frug
Zenithal Harvest
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 07:56:00 -
[44]
Although I don't think you should be tossing the word 'exploit' around willy nilly, and what they did is amusingly clever, they should get a criminal flag for helping criminals. NPC or otherwise.
- - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - "We need to invent a new Clue Super Weapon... Something that distributes clue on a never before seen level." -Cpt Psycho |
Presidente Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 08:14:00 -
[45]
Well ... this is tactics not an exploit.
The only thing CCP should change that giving support to NPC like repping them should cause the same effect like picking up someones loot in high-sec. That would be fair. Otherwise those plexes will be useless due plex-support-campers.
My presidential opinion.
Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++ |
Auron Shadowbane
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 08:49:00 -
[46]
it is an exploit as they exploit the mistake of a dev who didnt code the criminal flag into repairing rats.
you get flagged if you repair a player, so you should get flagged for repairing a rat. if you dont its an exploit.
ban them!
|
Farlax
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 09:00:00 -
[47]
I agree that if you help a ship you have taken sides and should then be marked accordingly no matter if the ship is an npc or a player... i.e. the player attacking the rats should have the chance to fire on you if you help the rats in any way.
A corp friend lost his ship to this self same issue last night and their is nothing he could do to get any form of payback on or from the aggressor.
CCP should change to game mechanics to at least let you have justice.
Cheers, Farlax |
Kaliipso
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 09:18:00 -
[48]
flagging them wont fix this problem , it will be like with ore stealing , they repair npc , u attack them and get ganked by hes buddies.
|
Jesters Knight
Eclipse Enterprises Empire Research
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 09:46:00 -
[49]
The only reason i think this is an exploit is because they are in NPC corps hiding behind concord.
i agree withteh post sayign that NPC corps should not be allowed in cosmos.
fi they want in, then they can make an alt on antoher character slot, pay 2 mil, and have there verry own corp. they dont need to join someone elses, and whiel this would hurt some innocent people not doing it hurts people just as innocent. Highsec POS labs with no risk of scamming
|
Frances Ducoir
Academy of Decadence
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 10:08:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Frances Ducoir on 10/04/2007 10:07:15 Imagine someone in a command ship with Deadspace tank. This person could tank the whole deltole plex. If there is someone repping the scrambling npcs and thus keeping you in place this would be harrasment.
Flagging is no solution because you will be ganked by them if you attack them. Make remote repping not work on npcs. this also rerolls the question why npc corp members are not deccable. or even better: make it so that people can only be in npc corps till they have a few mio skillpoints. or make it so, that you have to work for the npc corps to be allowed to stay in them (missions). this would lead to less alts in npc corps.
a friend of mine lost an ishtar + corpum x-type repper to this issue in the deltole plex. i also heard of lots of other hacs dieing in there to this.
Another BIG problem in the deltole plex is can camping. There are 4 cans (serpentis analyzed date module) which are able to spawn "stolen formulas" decryptor which are needed for ship invention and are pretty expensive (150mio). these 4 cans can easily be camped. if stolen formulas would spawn in all cans of the plex, everybody would have a fair chance of getting them, not only the 23/7 campers. Furthermore the droprate of stolen formulas is too low to cope the needs of invention.
as you can see there are lots of issues with the deltole plex.
|
|
Presidente Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 10:19:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Kaliipso flagging them wont fix this problem , it will be like with ore stealing , they repair npc , u attack them and get ganked by hes buddies.
It will not +fix the problem½ overall, sure. But it's working in a right direction. You can bring your fleet over there and you get a chance to take them. Solving the problem doesn't mean: to forbid that kind of action. It's the same problem with gate campers in low-sec. They tank sentries and camp. This is not an exploit. It's nice tactics. And exactly this makes EVE exciting IMO. But this Deltole issue is an exploit indeed. CCP should get petitions and change that but not remove it. Giving support to rats means: criminal flagged and no Concord backup.
Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++ |
Kylar Renpurs
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 10:35:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 10/04/2007 10:33:41 Oh man, someone's doing something about the COSMOS farmers? About f'n time,,, i'm sick of the ramped-up decryptor prices considering how common they are. Worried about stolen formulas? Installation guide used to be about 3 mil,, now it's 10, and is in bountiful supply compared to old times.
Maybe now i can go in, tank the rats and get my one or two decryptors even with these rat-aiders.
|
Roshan longshot
Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 10:46:00 -
[53]
CCP has for several years, stated we the players are the police force of Eve-Online. CCP only manages the data. If this tactic works against macros and farmers then lets all do it.
Or on the darker side why are you still in empire with a tech II fitted drake? 0.0 is the safest area I have ever seen, in the four years I have been playing.
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
|
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 10:52:00 -
[54]
So, did you actually petition it as an exploit?
|
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 11:00:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Dal Thrax So first report on April 10th. Lets see how long it takes for this to replace ore stealing as the prefered way to grief miners in high sec.
Dal
This tactics have been used for months. The use in cosmos missions might be new but people have been using it to ransom mission runner etc for a long time. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Vasiliyan
Gallente Ordnace Research and Development
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 11:18:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Frances Ducoir
a friend of mine lost an ishtar + corpum x-type repper to this issue in the deltole plex. i also heard of lots of other hacs dieing in there to this.
If you can tank the rats, AB away from the plex. Eventually they'll get bored and return to their regular station. Although the scramblers tend to web as well
I wonder what happens if you jam the rats? Getting them to change aggro would be handy.
Logoffski may also fix it (because you're not agressed to any player)
Originally by: Frances Ducoir
Another BIG problem in the Deltole plex is can camping.
The stolen formulas shouldn't spawn in the same cans, they should be in exploration plexes. Why are the NPCs putting the formulas in the can when the last 2347 times they did that they got stolen?
Originally by: Frances Ducoir
as you can see there are lots of issues with the deltole plex.
/signed - the minmatar cosmos is much better.
|
Dregann
Amarr Trading Company
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 11:27:00 -
[57]
k.
|
000Hunter000
Gallente Magners Marauders
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 11:30:00 -
[58]
Oh come on!!! Now really, someone shieldrepping the npc's in hi sec with the obvious attempt to get ur ship killed and this should not be considered an exploit? oh please!!!
Now if they did it while beeing in a corp i would say ok, u can wardec them afterwards but them beeing able to do this without any way to be able to retaliate them (u can't shoot them cuz concord comes and pwns u, can't wardec cuz there in an npc corp) is just silly.
Obvious fix would be to make it impossible to use any form of positive mod on npc's and problem solved without too much trouble or negative effect.
|
jizzmonkey
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 11:32:00 -
[59]
Edited by: ****monkey on 10/04/2007 11:29:40 i wholeheartedly applaud the people who came up with this :P
it took 10x the skill/ingenuity than it does to run missions all day,
in eve u shoudlnt be able to make billions without any risk,
ps, theyre not avoiding concord, they are aiding pirates that are already there, which concord presumably know about
|
Xerxes Ceasar
InfoMorph Services Ltd
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 11:32:00 -
[60]
I was a victim to this cunning tactic in the serpentis survey site in Deltole. First they tried to just rep the warpscrambling rats. When the whole group of rats couldnt break my Eos's tank, they used 3 suicide alts to destroy my ship. As it has been said. repping npc and suicide attacks are ok according to ccp rules. However I see two major issues here. First, they use this tactict not only to grief unsuspecting cosmos runners. But also, as was said earlier here, stop others from obtaining items from the cans. This is clearly harassment ant exploit in my eyes. I could even be content with that it's allowed to repp npc's in this way IF it was possible to take counter actions. As long as those characters are in NPC corps they are untouchable by legitime actions. Someone suggested that members of NPC corps shouldn't have access to complexes. My suggestion would be that they shouldnt be allowed to target anything but asteroids Xerxes
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |