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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.04.10 19:26:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Humpalot on 10/04/2007 19:33:26
Originally by: Hllaxiu You can use ECM against the frigate. Or fit WCS, or do any other number of things.
ECM...maybe but then you have bolloxed your tank so badly you can't really run the mission and I have seen varying reports of the usefulness of jamming NPCs to the point it generally sounds like it is really a no-win effort. Not to mention many ships have a helluva time fitting anything approaching a decent ECM setup (guess the midslot challenged Amarr are just screwed here).
WCS...they come with such staggering drawbacks now as to make them totally unusable for a ship expecting to engage in any sort of combat. Strictly for travel setups these days. That and I have read that WCS or not NPCs seems to have a base chance at a scramble (do not now if that is true or not...never tested it myself). If so WCS become even less than reasonable.
EMP Blast...you'll likely tag the reppers and get CONCORDED.
Smartbomb...you'll likely tag the reppers and get CONCORDED (assuming you can overcome their repping anyway).
Drive Away...fair chance you are webbed too but if not I guess you have to hope to get off grid before you die. If you are webbed doubt you will make it.
Logoffski...Suppose this would work but a helluva thing to call a game mechanic you should be expected to use.
Suicide ALTs...bringing along several suicide ALTs on every mission and losing those ships and taking a sec hit on them is in no way a reasonable tactic to expect players to manage.
Anything else?
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Korizan
Oort Cloud Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.10 19:42:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Deckard Bishop i have spoken with a GM and bug hunter....
at the moment this is NOT considered an exploit
however i doubt that it is working as originally intended by the devs so i am sure it will be investigated further.
if i hear anything else i will pass it on.
Let me see if I got this clear.
This is NOT an EXPLOIT and it is NOT considered HARASSMENT either ? I have a distinct memory of another thread and this tactic used against suspected macro miners....
There is no difference between the 2 situations. So I am asking is if someone does this, NOTHING will happen to them ?
I just want to be very sure CCP is willing to go down this road.
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Optical Nous
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Posted - 2007.04.10 20:01:00 -
[93]
The mechanics should not be altered to prevent repping on NPC rats. The repper gets criminally flagged against you for assisting and you decide how to play it from there. Attack the repper, or come prepared with a WCS and bug out. If the repper is in a gang, get your own gang. Simple as that.
ON
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.04.10 20:06:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Optical Nous The mechanics should not be altered to prevent repping on NPC rats. The repper gets criminally flagged against you for assisting and you decide how to play it from there. Attack the repper, or come prepared with a WCS and bug out. If the repper is in a gang, get your own gang. Simple as that.
ON
While the flagging of the repper seems fair enough on the face of it remember the one guy is getting hammered by who knows how many NPCs and dealing with all the crud they are laying on him (webs/scrams/damps/nos/whatever). The NPC reppers have a distinct advantage.
Combine flagging with the NPCs switching targets (such as half going for one guy and half the other) and you might be on to something.
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Steph Wing
Gallente The Graduates Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.04.10 20:14:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Nyphur So where do you draw the line? If it's an exploit to kill someone in a cosmos complex by remote repping the NPCs, is it an exploit to tank those same npcs, kill any scramblers and let them respawn until they are all attacking you but not scrambling, fly over to someone and warp out so that they scramble and kill your target? Is it then an exploit to warp out while tanking npcs if someone is nearby? Could you be banned for tanking a cosmos complex and finishing up for the night, not noticing a frigate flying around nearby? What about someone flying around you deliberately so they can file a petition when you warp out, forcing you to stay there or get yourself banned?
My point is that this line of thinking opens itself to harassment, depending on where exactly the line is drawn. What's needed is not rules and bans for exploitation of the game mechanics, the game mechanic itself needs to be fixed. The simplest and most effective fix is to make remote repairers simply not work on NPCs.
Look out everyone, it's a slippery slope!
About TGRAD |
Presidente Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.10 20:33:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 10/04/2007 20:31:44
Originally by: Humpalot
Originally by: Deckard Bishop i have spoken with a GM and bug hunter....
at the moment this is NOT considered an exploit
however i doubt that it is working as originally intended by the devs so i am sure it will be investigated further.
Well that settles that I suppose but I REALLY have to wonder what exactly the Devs do consider an exploit. I'll quote from their own EULA where they define what is considered an exploit (highlighting mine):
"Exploits
An exploit is when someone bypasses normal game mechanics, such as by utilizing a bug in the game, allowing him to take advantage of other players without them having any means of preventing it whatsoever."
I would be interested in an answer as to how other players have any real means of preventing this unless getting CONCORDED by attacking the repping ships counts.
If you use WCS [which is crap of course] you have a chance to escape. If you have a support gang taking down the scrambler frigs the case is solved. So from CCP's pov there ARE some ways to prevent that kind of action. The only logical detail which should be +fixed½ now: giving support to those NPC's should cause flagging to the one who is attacked by the ship or its spwan. And just the support ship and not the whole gang. Period. Then we have some kind of balance again.
Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++ |
Arshes Nei
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.04.10 21:02:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Arshes Nei on 10/04/2007 20:59:41 Im with the people who say benifitial effects shouldnt work on rats. I mean the whole concept of using the dumbness of npcs(they never switch targets) as a means of killing someone in highsec is just hilarious.
CCP invents a security system and a police force aka concord to enforce that system in order to create a protected space, in this space you cant attack people without loosing your ship to concord(ccp stated several times that bypassing this is a bannable offense btw). Now some people go around this by using npcs. Its pretty obvious isnt it? Lets not pretend that this is anything but a means of killing players in highsec without having to wardec them or getting concorded in the process(oh and that they are not even allowed to fight back is a added bonus). So you're not using missiles or turrets or drones to kill people but you use npcs, big deal.
Imho if you want to kill someone in highsec you should wardec him, or be prepared for concord to open a can of whoopass on you, its that simple. Its funny ccp gave miners and beltratters a means to defend themselves from ore- and lootthieves, yet the GMs seem to think thats its perfectly ok if those players instead kill you by helping the rats you fight. But no worry they get flagged for looting your wreck .
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Roche Pso
Gallente Deltole Research Labs
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Posted - 2007.04.10 21:06:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider so.. they were in the cosmos plex and didnt have aggro? must have jammed them, i guess. or.. did they arrive after you..?
The spawn aggros when you scan a can, it's not dangerous to warp into the room and just keep a bit of distance from the spawn till you see the right moment for whatever action you are interested in.
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Roche Pso
Gallente Deltole Research Labs
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Posted - 2007.04.10 21:12:00 -
[99]
Originally by: dennyreborn this of course will lead to the reppers having gang mates in BS ready to shoot all who comes to shoots the repper.
They would need to cover all the exits from the system, cos they wouldnt be taking a BS into a BC-max plex
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Roche Pso
Gallente Deltole Research Labs
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Posted - 2007.04.10 21:12:00 -
[100]
Originally by: dennyreborn this of course will lead to the reppers having gang mates in BS ready to shoot all who comes to shoots the repper.
They would need to cover all the exits from the system, cos they wouldnt be taking a BS into a BC-max plex
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Roche Pso
Gallente Deltole Research Labs
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Posted - 2007.04.10 21:12:00 -
[101]
Originally by: dennyreborn this of course will lead to the reppers having gang mates in BS ready to shoot all who comes to shoots the repper.
They would need to cover all the exits from the system, cos they wouldnt be taking a BS into a BC-max plex
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Roche Pso
Gallente Deltole Research Labs
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Posted - 2007.04.10 21:14:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Akita T Ok, so why aren't THEY getting killed by the NPCs while YOU are ? How come the NPCs don't aggress them too ? Or when the NPCs aggress them how do they switch aggro back to you ?
The way the aggro works is that the people scanning the cans get it, all of it, until they die or warp out
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Roche Pso
Gallente Deltole Research Labs
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Posted - 2007.04.10 21:14:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Akita T Ok, so why aren't THEY getting killed by the NPCs while YOU are ? How come the NPCs don't aggress them too ? Or when the NPCs aggress them how do they switch aggro back to you ?
The way the aggro works is that the people scanning the cans get it, all of it, until they die or warp out
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Roche Pso
Gallente Deltole Research Labs
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Posted - 2007.04.10 21:14:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Akita T Ok, so why aren't THEY getting killed by the NPCs while YOU are ? How come the NPCs don't aggress them too ? Or when the NPCs aggress them how do they switch aggro back to you ?
The way the aggro works is that the people scanning the cans get it, all of it, until they die or warp out
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Buckeroo Bonzai
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Posted - 2007.04.10 21:44:00 -
[105]
Hello,
I am afraid that what GM Daishi told your corporation member is correct. Our policies do not permit us to intervene in situations where a player is repairing an NPC, be it in a mission or complex. While I appreciate that this is a frustration situation to be in, you will have to find in-game methods of dealing with it.
Regards,
GM Voodoo EVE Online Customer Support
Would you like to open the petition?
Well there it is guys the offcial response from CCP. So basicly it is now open season on anyone in a COSMOS plex or anywhere there are warp scramming rats. I am highly disapointed with you CCP that this is the way you want your game to be. April was the last payment you will ever get from me.
NO YOU GUYS CANT HAVE MY STUFF.
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Buckeroo Bonzai
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Posted - 2007.04.10 21:44:00 -
[106]
*snip* "Private communication between the Game Masters, Eve Team members, moderators and administrators of the forum and the forum users is not to be made public on these forums or by any other venue. You are not permitted to publicize any private correspondence (including petitions) received from any of the aforementioned. "
-Lord Harold
So basicly it is now open season on anyone in a COSMOS plex or anywhere there are warp scramming rats. I am highly disapointed with you CCP that this is the way you want your game to be. April was the last payment you will ever get from me.
NO YOU GUYS CANT HAVE MY STUFF.
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.04.10 21:48:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Buckeroo Bonzai Dev Response
FYI: It is a no-no to post official communications from CCP like this. A rule I am not too fond of but their rule nonetheless. You need to edit that out.
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lordharold
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.04.10 21:50:00 -
[108]
Please do not post communications with GM's.
- Lord Harold
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Buckeroo Bonzai
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Posted - 2007.04.10 22:02:00 -
[109]
2007.04.10 21:52
Hi,
Unfortunately we at Customer Support are unable to discuss or make any decisions in relations to game design, or any of the changes made in this patch/expansion. We therefore ask you to please post your concerns on the EVE forums for further discussion, as members of the Dev team constantly monitor the forums to get feedback and ideas from players. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/
For more details on changes of game features, be sure to read the patchnotes here: http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp
Reading the Dev blogs is also an excellent idea. http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp
Best regards, GM #$%^%$# EVE Online Customer Support Team
Would you like to open the petition?
OK this came form a different GM which name I have to withold. The pettion was copied and pasted using my other account and that was the response. Same pettion different GM. This brings up another major flaw with CCP. Depending on what time of day it is or if there is a full moon out you never know what GM will say what. There is no "universal" rule book they all follow. Its what ever they feel like doing or saying at the time. The GM's are the enforcers of the rule but they only enforce the rules they feel like enforcing at the time and that is BS.
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RedFall
Irreligion
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Posted - 2007.04.10 22:03:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Buckeroo Bonzai
2007.04.10 21:52
Hi,
Unfortunately we at Customer Support are unable to discuss or make any decisions in relations to game design, or any of the changes made in this patch/expansion. We therefore ask you to please post your concerns on the EVE forums for further discussion, as members of the Dev team constantly monitor the forums to get feedback and ideas from players. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/
For more details on changes of game features, be sure to read the patchnotes here: http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp
Reading the Dev blogs is also an excellent idea. http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp
Best regards, GM #$%^%$# EVE Online Customer Support Team
Would you like to open the petition?
OK this came form a different GM which name I have to withold. The pettion was copied and pasted using my other account and that was the response. Same pettion different GM. This brings up another major flaw with CCP. Depending on what time of day it is or if there is a full moon out you never know what GM will say what. There is no "universal" rule book they all follow. Its what ever they feel like doing or saying at the time. The GM's are the enforcers of the rule but they only enforce the rules they feel like enforcing at the time and that is BS.
ANARCHY!!! THIS IS MADNESS!!!
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Buckeroo Bonzai
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Posted - 2007.04.10 22:03:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Buckeroo Bonzai *snip* "Private communication between the Game Masters, Eve Team members, moderators and administrators of the forum and the forum users is not to be made public on these forums or by any other venue. You are not permitted to publicize any private correspondence (including petitions) received from any of the aforementioned. "
-Lord Harold
So basicly it is now open season on anyone in a COSMOS plex or anywhere there are warp scramming rats. I am highly disapointed with you CCP that this is the way you want your game to be. April was the last payment you will ever get from me.
NO YOU GUYS CANT HAVE MY STUFF.
Man talk about censorship.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar Sicarri Covenant Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.10 22:09:00 -
[112]
I'm sure CCP will fix this problem, right after they get rid of all the macrominers... you know if you turn to piracy you wouldn't even have to deal with it
And you get to say Yarrr!
Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking ... ~Liz Kali
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Adrian Kerensky
Caldari STK Scientific Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.04.10 22:14:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Adrian Kerensky on 10/04/2007 22:12:31 HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA
Made me burst out laughing tbh.
If CCP classes this as an exploit then I am afraid they're on a spiraling downward path away from what makes this game great: freedom to do what you want.
[EDIT] What kind of a bloody crap T2 drake fit was it if your friend couldn't overcome a frigate in the time it takes an xfer to cycle? Or to overcome some small xfers from noob corp members in T1 frigs? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil
258 bytes over! |
Buckeroo Bonzai
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Posted - 2007.04.10 22:20:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Adrian Kerensky Edited by: Adrian Kerensky on 10/04/2007 22:12:31 HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA
Made me burst out laughing tbh.
If CCP classes this as an exploit then I am afraid they're on a spiraling downward path away from what makes this game great: freedom to do what you want.
[EDIT] What kind of a bloody crap T2 drake fit was it if your friend couldn't overcome a frigate in the time it takes an xfer to cycle? Or to overcome some small xfers from noob corp members in T1 frigs?
So if im free to do what ever i want in the game how come i cant war dec NPC corps?
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Buckeroo Bonzai
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Posted - 2007.04.10 22:22:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Adrian Kerensky Edited by: Adrian Kerensky on 10/04/2007 22:12:31 HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA
Made me burst out laughing tbh.
If CCP classes this as an exploit then I am afraid they're on a spiraling downward path away from what makes this game great: freedom to do what you want.
[EDIT] What kind of a bloody crap T2 drake fit was it if your friend couldn't overcome a frigate in the time it takes an xfer to cycle? Or to overcome some small xfers from noob corp members in T1 frigs?
And yes I think its funny as hell too that CCP as a buisness would treat its customers this way.
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Amy Small
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Posted - 2007.04.10 22:24:00 -
[116]
Buckeroo Bonzai i thought you were quitting? Hurry up and quit already, we can do without your carebear whining.
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hattifnatt
Gallente The Movement
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Posted - 2007.04.10 22:25:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Buckeroo Bonzai
So if im free to do what ever i want in the game how come i cant war dec NPC corps?
Game mechanics?
Originally by: Nicholas Barker i tackled somebody in the middle of nowhere, and told them i wouldn't leave untill they stripped on web cam. Who wants the video?
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Buckeroo Bonzai
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Posted - 2007.04.10 22:30:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Adrian Kerensky Edited by: Adrian Kerensky on 10/04/2007 22:12:31 HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA
Made me burst out laughing tbh.
If CCP classes this as an exploit then I am afraid they're on a spiraling downward path away from what makes this game great: freedom to do what you want.
[EDIT] What kind of a bloody crap T2 drake fit was it if your friend couldn't overcome a frigate in the time it takes an xfer to cycle? Or to overcome some small xfers from noob corp members in T1 frigs?
I am sorry if i was misleading. It is possiable to do it in T1 frigs but this was not the case with my friend. It was 3 players in NPC corp flying Logistic ships. The COSMOS plex in Detolle or however you spell it. When you have 5-6 BS's 8-10 Cruisers and 2-3 warp scramming and webbing frigs on you. With other players shield repping the Frigs and what ever ship you happen to be shooting at all you can do is die a slow death.
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Buckeroo Bonzai
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Posted - 2007.04.10 22:32:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Amy Small Buckeroo Bonzai i thought you were quitting? Hurry up and quit already, we can do without your carebear whining.
If you are sick of my whining dont read the thread and yes i cancelled my accounts, but they dont run out untill the end of April so i still have 20 days left to complain.
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Kylar Renpurs
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Posted - 2007.04.10 22:38:00 -
[120]
Quote: at the moment this is NOT considered an exploit
however i doubt that it is working as originally intended by the devs so i am sure it will be investigated further.
Thank god someone sees this for what it is,,,
Why is it *not* considered an exploit? Lets quote someones quote of the EULA:
Quote: "Exploits
An exploit is when someone bypasses normal game mechanics, such as by utilizing a bug in the game, allowing him to take advantage of other players without them having any means of preventing it whatsoever."
Bypasses normal game mechanics? Nope, they're just shield repping an NPC,, no harm in that.
Take advantage of other players? Sure, but then isnt that what PvP is?
...without them having any means of preventing it whatsoever This is the nut *****er. YOU DO HAVE MEANS OF PREVENTING IT. Blow the freaking rat up, remote repping is not some instant permatank. Yeah, if six people do it then you may be required to dish out some DPS. But as someone else mentioned, EVE isnt about stepping on as an individual and suddenly making lots of cash with nary a lift of a finger.
Tanking cosmos rats to earn craploads of profit is nary lifting a finger, and as I've stated many times decryptor prices are stupid considering their abundance. Of course there's going to be some pretty heated competition for these things when they are so easily available. People wouldn't do this sort of stuff if there wasnt money in it, and at first there wasnt. Then some smart cookie decided to farm these places and ramp the prices up. Reap what you sow.
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