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Mini Balrog
Magelleon Corporation Infensus
0
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Posted - 2016.12.19 07:35:08 -
[1] - Quote
Like the Topic says, why?
The Nestor was robbed of its theme, which was a cloaking scanner boat that can do exploration. I don't care about a cloak being too overpowered, then the design was flawed from the beginning. The Nestor as it stands, is a useless piece of trash to a large portion of the eve community. I remember when I first saw the SOE ship line I said i'm going to run a relic in that monster battleship, but now that I have the skills and money what good is it now?
The Nestor was robbed and so was I of my dream to burn money on stupid ships. For shame CCP, for shame. |
Wanda Fayne
346
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Posted - 2016.12.19 07:52:35 -
[2] - Quote
There is nothing that prevents a Nestor from cloaking.
your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic
-Lan Wang-
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Locator Agents cease to function on Offline Players:
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Vigirr
216
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Posted - 2016.12.19 07:58:31 -
[3] - Quote
Mini Balrog wrote:Like the Topic says, why?
The Nestor was robbed of its theme, which was a cloaking scanner boat that can do exploration. I don't care about a cloak being too overpowered, then the design was flawed from the beginning. The Nestor as it stands, is a useless piece of trash to a large portion of the eve community. I remember when I first saw the SOE ship line I said i'm going to run a relic in that monster battleship, but now that I have the skills and money what good is it now?
The Nestor was robbed and so was I of my dream to burn money on stupid ships. For shame CCP, for shame.
Because a covert cloaking BS is hilariously bullshit overpowered. Anyone asking for this either has no clue or is somehow ok with ships that are hilariously bullshit overpowered and should thus never be listened to in regards to ships or balancing.
Just because you didn't check a ship's traits before you trained for it or it's not useful to a majority of people doesn't mean it needs changing. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
46333
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Posted - 2016.12.19 08:08:43 -
[4] - Quote
Mini Balrog wrote:Like the Topic says, why? That would have made it a very powerful black ops capable logistics and refitting platform when it was released.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
22656
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Posted - 2016.12.19 08:17:25 -
[5] - Quote
Vigirr wrote:Mini Balrog wrote:Like the Topic says, why?
The Nestor was robbed of its theme, which was a cloaking scanner boat that can do exploration. I don't care about a cloak being too overpowered, then the design was flawed from the beginning. The Nestor as it stands, is a useless piece of trash to a large portion of the eve community. I remember when I first saw the SOE ship line I said i'm going to run a relic in that monster battleship, but now that I have the skills and money what good is it now?
The Nestor was robbed and so was I of my dream to burn money on stupid ships. For shame CCP, for shame. Because a covert cloaking BS is hilariously bullshit overpowered. Anyone asking for this either has no clue or is somehow ok with ships that are hilariously bullshit overpowered and should thus never be listened to in regards to ships or balancing. Just because you didn't check a ship's traits before you trained for it or it's not useful to a majority of people doesn't mean it needs changing. There are ways to make it less overpovered if equipped with covert cloak. They could give it more crippling fitting requirements for fitting cloak, lower speed while cloaked, greater targeting delay. It could still warp cloaked. Would not matter at gatecamps, it would be dead there, every time, easier to decloak and point, not enough agility to warp out in time.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
Osprey =ƒÜÇ
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Suicide Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
23
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Posted - 2016.12.19 08:20:51 -
[6] - Quote
Cloaking a BS as powerful as the Nester would be OP as hell, not to mention be a HUGE cut in training time to get into vs Black Ops.
If it did get a cloak, it would need to get the same treatment as Blackops BS, which is an IOU note where their hitpoints should be :p
Frig and Cruiser, sure it's a little faster to get into vs a T2 Cov Ops, but not by that much. Days-Week, nothing like getting into a Blackops BS.
And giving it a covops cloak like the frig and cruiser would make it silly OP. |
Vigirr
216
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Posted - 2016.12.19 08:28:25 -
[7] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Vigirr wrote:Mini Balrog wrote:Like the Topic says, why?
The Nestor was robbed of its theme, which was a cloaking scanner boat that can do exploration. I don't care about a cloak being too overpowered, then the design was flawed from the beginning. The Nestor as it stands, is a useless piece of trash to a large portion of the eve community. I remember when I first saw the SOE ship line I said i'm going to run a relic in that monster battleship, but now that I have the skills and money what good is it now?
The Nestor was robbed and so was I of my dream to burn money on stupid ships. For shame CCP, for shame. Because a covert cloaking BS is hilariously bullshit overpowered. Anyone asking for this either has no clue or is somehow ok with ships that are hilariously bullshit overpowered and should thus never be listened to in regards to ships or balancing. Just because you didn't check a ship's traits before you trained for it or it's not useful to a majority of people doesn't mean it needs changing. There are ways to make it less overpovered if equipped with covert cloak. They could give it more crippling fitting requirements for fitting cloak, lower speed while cloaked, greater targeting delay. It could still warp cloaked. Would not matter at gatecamps, it would be dead there, every time, easier to decloak and point, not enough agility to warp out in time.
It'd still be OP, otherwise you wouldn't agree to said "crippling requirements". |
Wanda Fayne
347
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Posted - 2016.12.19 08:28:40 -
[8] - Quote
"The Sanctuary corporation poured uncountable resources into making the cloaking technology developed for the Stratios fit the Nestor, but were eventually forced to concede that it was impossible. The effort was not without benefit though, as part of their work focused on reducing the Nestor's mass enough that it could make its way into unexplored territories that might've been hazardous to bulkier vessels. This paid off by affording the Nestor unmatched access to wormhole space, and meant that the embedded miniature rescue vessel on the ship's hull could be relegated to a decommissioned role. With covert function off the table, the Sanctuary turned their eyes on logistics and now the Nestor serves as one of the best support platforms in New Eden."
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=33472
/thread
your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic
-Lan Wang-
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Locator Agents cease to function on Offline Players:
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
22656
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Posted - 2016.12.19 08:35:20 -
[9] - Quote
Vigirr wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Vigirr wrote:Mini Balrog wrote:Like the Topic says, why?
The Nestor was robbed of its theme, which was a cloaking scanner boat that can do exploration. I don't care about a cloak being too overpowered, then the design was flawed from the beginning. The Nestor as it stands, is a useless piece of trash to a large portion of the eve community. I remember when I first saw the SOE ship line I said i'm going to run a relic in that monster battleship, but now that I have the skills and money what good is it now?
The Nestor was robbed and so was I of my dream to burn money on stupid ships. For shame CCP, for shame. Because a covert cloaking BS is hilariously bullshit overpowered. Anyone asking for this either has no clue or is somehow ok with ships that are hilariously bullshit overpowered and should thus never be listened to in regards to ships or balancing. Just because you didn't check a ship's traits before you trained for it or it's not useful to a majority of people doesn't mean it needs changing. There are ways to make it less overpovered if equipped with covert cloak. They could give it more crippling fitting requirements for fitting cloak, lower speed while cloaked, greater targeting delay. It could still warp cloaked. Would not matter at gatecamps, it would be dead there, every time, easier to decloak and point, not enough agility to warp out in time. It'd still be OP, otherwise you wouldn't agree to said "crippling requirements". It would still have to be OP in first place, when you give it some crippling additionally, it isnt, its just original, unusual, thought provoking.
Like Superman and kryptonite.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
Osprey =ƒÜÇ
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Vigirr
216
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Posted - 2016.12.19 08:36:36 -
[10] - Quote
Uhuh. |
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Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
1147
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Posted - 2016.12.19 08:43:31 -
[11] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Mini Balrog wrote:Like the Topic says, why? That would have made it a very powerful black ops capable logistics and refitting platform when it was released and powerful as a black ops DPS ship itself.
Except for the small problems that A: it lacks a jump drive and B: other BLOPS Battleships can only carry enough fuel to bridge a Nestor around 2.5'ish Light Years.
I'd rather bridge in a logi T3C or two. But then, if you're planning on needing a logi on your BLOPS fleets, you're already kinda doing it wrong. BLOPS drops are an execution style gank, not a standup fight.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
46333
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Posted - 2016.12.19 08:54:18 -
[12] - Quote
Mephiztopheleze wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Mini Balrog wrote:Like the Topic says, why? That would have made it a very powerful black ops capable logistics and refitting platform when it was released and powerful as a black ops DPS ship itself. Except for the small problems that A: it lacks a jump drive and B: other BLOPS Battleships can only carry enough fuel to bridge a Nestor around 2.5'ish Light Years. I'd rather bridge in a logi T3C or two. But then, if you're planning on needing a logi on your BLOPS fleets, you're already kinda doing it wrong. BLOPS drops are an execution style gank, not a standup fight. I would have certainly used it after bridging from a BLOPs no matter the shorter range.
I "solo" to a Loki in a Sin. Putting another alt in a Nestor if needed would have been fine for the area I blops in. Would have been way op.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Akis Talanas
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.12.19 09:29:27 -
[13] - Quote
You don't see the real cause for nerfs like this : envy....
There can't be a ship that can something that it is designed for better than all the others around....this is "overpowered" and has to be cut.....
Why? simply some envy people say it has to......they simply can't stand the fact that others had more then themselves....or had it easier.....
The last example was the myrmidon.....
How could ccp dare to design a ship that can do something better than other ships of its class (here : carrying drones)? This can't be tolerated by some people so the whining in the forum and ingame starts and they got their will it was nerfed......
There are people out there that can't sleep 'til all is flat und even in this game.....no ships that spike out the flatness of their world with special abilities.....they just want to even it all......
Most of those people dream of using ONE ship for all and they hate every individuality.......
Thats the bottom line......not an "overpowered" ship design....they want to flat it all..... |
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
22656
|
Posted - 2016.12.19 09:36:59 -
[14] - Quote
Hey, I remember something. Everyone wanted to play barbarians, and to nerf mages in AoC.
This was MMO like EVE so the team work was priced more than individual. People essentially complained that some class can shine so much in good team.
Can Nestor shine so much? Can it be even more shining?
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
Osprey =ƒÜÇ
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Neuntausend
Rens Nursing Home
1260
|
Posted - 2016.12.19 10:13:52 -
[15] - Quote
Akis Talanas wrote:You don't see the real cause for nerfs like this : envy....
There can't be a ship that can something that it is designed for better than all the others around....this is "overpowered" and has to be cut.....
Why? simply some envy people say it has to......they simply can't stand the fact that others had more then themselves....or had it easier.....
The last example was the myrmidon.....
How could ccp dare to design a ship that can do something better than other ships of its class (here : carrying drones)? This can't be tolerated by some people so the whining in the forum and ingame starts and they got their will it was nerfed......
There are people out there that can't sleep 'til all is flat und even in this game.....no ships that spike out the flatness of their world with special abilities.....they just want to even it all......they call it "balancing" but in the end it's just jealousy.
Most of those people dream of using ONE ship for all and they hate every individuality.......
Thats the bottom line......not an "overpowered" ship design....they want to flat it all..... Balance has nothing to do with envy. Nothing keeps players from training a Nestor or a Myrmidon, so why would they be envious about it?
However, if a ship gets too strong, it will invalidate many other ships. If one ship is simply the best one, why have all the others? The ships in Eve are still unique: The Nestor is the only battleship with a remote rep bonus, the Myrmidon is still the best drone battlecruiser, the Scorpion is still the only Battleship with an ECM bonus and so on. So, these ships are nowhere near a "flat line" in terms of their abilities, neither should they be. However, in terms of powerlevel they should be. If there are ships that clearly are more powerful than all the others, we will have a meta where everyone just uses just a handful of ships and ignores the rest, at which point one would wonder why we have all those ships anyway, if most of them are ****. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1145
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Posted - 2016.12.19 11:08:55 -
[16] - Quote
If the 2.5LY bridge aspect is true, I havent verified it myself. Then BLOPsing it would be kinda silly as others have also pointed out. Execution. Not a long fight.
Covert cloaks wouldnt be OP under two conditions so far in my mind; a longer reactivation delay AND the regular cloaks targeting delay without modification for skills, so 20 or even 30 seconds. This would nullify most OP activities other than run and hide and if you get decloaked while trying to run and hide you would still get caught with your pants down and bent over.
But I dont think it really would need one anyway. As theres not a good enough reason to change it.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
1030
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Posted - 2016.12.19 11:12:35 -
[17] - Quote
Nestor is a pretty decent ship IMO it is more people's lack of imagination rather than limitations of the ship that reduce how much it is used. While it would be cool I don't see a desperate need for covert cloak on it.
That said given its role/faction I've always thought it should have some aspect of black ops functionality - even if that was just a short range jump drive without black ops cloaking bonuses or atleast something unique to its navigation abilities in some shape or form. |
Rain6637
NulzSec
34580
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Posted - 2016.12.19 12:31:12 -
[18] - Quote
I would be okay with one thing hilariously overpowered each week, like a covops cloaking Nestor, then Widow, then Panther, then Sin
Or maybe a time-limited 20% PG or CPU implant (**** it why not both)
You want people logging in each week or what
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Rain6637
NulzSec
34580
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Posted - 2016.12.19 12:36:09 -
[19] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/gbWIsPX.png
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
8458
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Posted - 2016.12.19 12:41:41 -
[20] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I would be okay with one thing hilariously overpowered each week, like a covops cloaking Nestor, then Widow, then Panther, then Sin
Or maybe a time-limited 20% PG or CPU implant (**** it why not both)
You want people logging in each week or what
People already log in every day without any of that. Did you seriously think that nonsense finale was a clever point?
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Salvos Rhoska
1708
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Posted - 2016.12.19 12:42:41 -
[21] - Quote
Why cant Nestor use covops? -Cos it has remote rep bonuses.
Why does it have remote rep bonuses instead of covops? -Cos it would step on the toes of Black Ops ships -Cos it provides, iirc, the only faction logi BS in the entire game, which is pretty cool.
It has the same racial ship bonuses as the other two SOE ships, and also bonuses for probing/hacking, like them. So it clearly retains the quintessential SOE flavor.
Its a fantastic ship, with excellent stats and bonuses, for what it is.
Tbh I never liked the implementation of any of these SOE ships, cos they sort of poopooed on cov-ops explorers. Yes, I am bitter that my Cheetah, albeit faster and with better probe bonuses cos of extensive skilling, is made of tinfoil and categorically combat incapable compared to the Astero...Its my own fault for not training into one (although as Minmatar trained I was SOL anyways).
But I understand CCP wanted to encourage exploration and the ship models are fantastic. I wish they had made SOE ships so they had universal bonuses from all racial ship skills, but its the past now.
PvE v PvP
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
8458
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Posted - 2016.12.19 12:48:58 -
[22] - Quote
In the right hands, the Nestor is already an extremely powerful ship in its own right, not to mention an incredibly capable force-multiplier when used for logistics. Additionally, regardless of how you fit it, even if you wanna use lasers and the 50% bonus to optimal they get, its 125mbit/s drone bandwidth with the drone damage and hitpoint bonus make it a viable candidate for Gecko deployment and a very decent sentry platform. I could even see certain fits outclassing the Dominix for spider-tanking sentry doctrines. You really don't give a ship enough credit when you only focus on one factor.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Memphis Baas
2545
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Posted - 2016.12.19 12:50:21 -
[23] - Quote
Akis Talanas wrote:You don't see the real cause for nerfs like this : envy....
You can draw the conclusion that CCP nerfs based on player opinion if:
1. You look at threads calling for nerfs and conclude cause/effect when in fact CCP used their own data to make the decision.
2. You ignore all the times when they nerfed things "out of the blue" / with no previous player comments.
It's a nice feeling to think that they listen to us and we can influence them, but they don't and we don't. (With words, at least. Behavior is another matter; if everyone flies Svipul and mines in Rorquals, they'll see that in their statistics). |
Trevize Demerzel
23
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Posted - 2016.12.19 13:22:38 -
[24] - Quote
It would be nice if it could actually carry a little fitted Astero in it's hanger. :-) It would fit nicely with the lore written on the ship.
I agree on everything else tho. Cloaky would be way OP.
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FT Cold
R3d Fire Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
99
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Posted - 2016.12.19 20:49:29 -
[25] - Quote
I like the nestor the way it is. Leave it alone. |
Tykari
Aliastra Gallente Federation
170
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Posted - 2016.12.19 23:39:30 -
[26] - Quote
I think CCP made the right choice here. Sure they probably could have balanced the Nestor in a way to allow a covert ops cloak on it, but it would have likely made it only feasible for one very specific niche role. With the way it is now, there are more options open and be used for a lot more stuff with a bit a creativity.
In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness.
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PopeUrban
El Expedicion Flames of Exile
316
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Posted - 2016.12.19 23:39:56 -
[27] - Quote
Because giving anything bigger than a cruiser a covops cloak sets a dangerous ******* precedent and severely cuts in to the role of cruiser and frig class covops ships. Simply being able to warp cloaked means that that battleship no longer needs a scout.
The Nestor's primary role is a low mass logi platform that's better than cruiser logi, worse than capital logi, and allows fleets to refit from it. It also has a massive drone bay, which when used creatively can serve as a pretty effective "drone replacement platform" for the other ships in its line since you can scoop abandoned drones to a bay while in space. 500m3 of drone bay is a LOT of replacement light drones for a little gang of asteros, even if you're mounting some personal meds and heavies for DPS.
This, along with its probing bonuses actually makes it a PERFECT addition to the SOE line, the flavor of which is exploration fleets. The nestor retains the ability to be "home base" for a number of asteros and stratios and efficiently scan sites under the power of its own cloak so that the hacking ships can hack in stead of spend more time scanning. The hacking ships can refit analyzers from that "home base" to swap between relic and data modules, deposit exploration loot, and in the case of hostiles in system rely on the logi and drone dps from it as a rather effective force multiplier for astero and stratios DPS.
It even has decent bonuses to hack cans itself, and as an armor tanked ship has the fitting resources to do so without losing much fighting power. This makes it a highly efficient way to complete many sleeper relic and data sites solo without selling your left testicle and gambling SP on a T3C.
Outside of its "lore" purpose for existing, it is hands down one of the best logi platforms avaliable for hisec warfare and wormhole roaming fleet ops due to its battleship hull size and low mass, and has the unique distinction of being one of very few subcap hulls with both fighting ability and fleet cargo bay.
If anything, the only problem the nestor has is that it costs too much LP. |
AlexHalstead
Viziam Amarr Empire
9
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Posted - 2016.12.20 00:31:15 -
[28] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Hey, I remember something. Everyone wanted to play barbarians, and to nerf mages in AoC. That's because they were arguing from lore; magic was rare and dangerous not only to others but to the caster as well. Warriors and thieves and scoundrels were plentiful in Robert E. Howard's Hyborian Age world. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
8085
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Posted - 2016.12.20 05:36:36 -
[29] - Quote
Mini Balrog wrote:Like the Topic says, why?
The Nestor was robbed of its theme, which was a cloaking scanner boat that can do exploration. I don't care about a cloak being too overpowered, then the design was flawed from the beginning. The Nestor as it stands, is a useless piece of trash to a large portion of the eve community. I remember when I first saw the SOE ship line I said i'm going to run a relic in that monster battleship, but now that I have the skills and money what good is it now?
The Nestor was robbed and so was I of my dream to burn money on stupid ships. For shame CCP, for shame.
You probably mean, why can't it covert-ops cloak.
Because the killmail addicts need every possible reason to keep playing the game.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Mallea Cesaille
Hardan Luca Invest
0
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Posted - 2016.12.20 11:55:50 -
[30] - Quote
Quote:Why does it have remote rep bonuses instead of covops? -Cos it would step on the toes of Black Ops ships -Cos it provides, iirc, the only faction logi BS in the entire game, which is pretty cool.
Most importantly it's too accessible, it wouldn't be fair to get a covert ops battleship for just Amarr and Gallente BS 3 and cloaking 4. |
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