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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2995
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Posted - 2016.12.22 01:45:10 -
[1] - Quote
Throughout EVE's history, frigates have been unpopular for mining due to their low yield, and usually only new players use the frigates while veterans fly barges exclusively. But what if there were a reason for veteran players to mine in frigates?
I present: Intrusion Mining A style of mining in which you spend time finding a very small but very rich pocket of ore, then you mine it out in a short amount of time and move on to the next one.
There could be little pockets of asteroids that must be scanned down, and they contain too little ore too spread out across the grid to be useful for a barge, but a frigate could mine it easily. These asteroids would yield perhaps +50% or +100% minerals, or even higher, to offset the lower yield of the frigate and the time spent searching for sites. The Venture and Prospect would be the best ships for mining these as they are swift and can fit a probe launcher, but some players may use a procurer or skiff. Retriever/mackinaw/covetor/hulk would be ineffective in these ore pockets.
These ore pockets could be pretty common since they individually have very little total ore.
Important Changes to Existing Ships: Venture: reduce ore hold a bit Prospect: reduce mining yield closer to the Venture and reduce ore hold significantly
previous proposal
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Iain Cariaba
3403
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Posted - 2016.12.22 02:20:07 -
[2] - Quote
What's stopping you from being able to do this with current belts? Cherry pick the +10%s if you're ninja mining.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
EvE is a PvP game. Stop pretending it isn't.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3446
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Posted - 2016.12.22 02:29:19 -
[3] - Quote
... as a vet who mines exclusively in prospects i take offence to this
BLOPS Hauler
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2995
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Posted - 2016.12.22 07:29:39 -
[4] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:What's stopping you from being able to do this with current belts? Cherry pick the +10%s if you're ninja mining.
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:... as a vet who mines exclusively in prospects i take offence to this
The Prospect mines like a barge, the Venture does not.
I am saying the Prospect shouldn't mine like a barge, and it shouldn't have to. +10% ores will do almost nothing to close the gap spent searching for ore, and they're already abundant in large volumes in the bigger pockets which are abundant enough you can spend a half hour looking for one per 5-10 days spent mining it out. This is barge territory and the only reason the Prospect can play in this league is because it mines like a barge.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
643
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Posted - 2016.12.22 09:05:53 -
[5] - Quote
We have the Prospect and Endurance mining frigates based on the Venture hull. Neither of them work anything like a barge. We also have shattered wormholes with rich deposits for them to harvest and now have the Porpoise so you can even have boosts in the shattered wormholes.
I think this is a well solved problem! |
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop Eve Radio Alliance
592
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Posted - 2016.12.22 14:36:56 -
[6] - Quote
Um....
What can be mined by a Venture can be mined by a barge faster. Use a scout to find the pocket, and warp the barge(s) in and suck it all up. What time is lost?
The only way you would keep the bigger ships out would be to have a warp-gate excluding barges.
I don't see how this would change the status quo. This might be up the Alpha's alley due to no access to barges, but then Omegas in barges can just strip the pockets out that much faster.
I'm not sold on this.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
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Cade Windstalker
639
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Posted - 2016.12.22 14:56:35 -
[7] - Quote
What you're looking for here is ninja-mining in Frig class wormholes. It's extremely profitable for the risk and time involved and can only be realistically done in a frigate class hull. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2995
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Posted - 2016.12.22 15:03:26 -
[8] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:and they contain too little ore too spread out across the grid to be useful for a barge,
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:The only way you would keep the bigger ships out would be to have a warp-gate excluding barges. Did you read the post? I explained how barges will fail to mine these out as fast as a Venture. But I can go into more detail if you don't understand: Example: you have asteroids each spaced so far apart that the mining ship must travel 25km to get to one more asteroid. Each asteroid has 800m3 of ore inside. A veteran in a Mackinaw mines 1000m3/minute without boosts. He can mine an asteroid in 48 seconds, but at 165m/s it takes him 2:30 to get to the next asteroid. The mining uptime is 32%. An alpha clone comes in with a Venture that mines only 200m3/minute without boosts. He can spend 4 minutes mining an asteroid while sitting near it, then just 20 seconds flying the 15km it takes to get in range of the next one. With some preparation, even that time can be reduced, but he's already at 92.3% mining uptime. The Venture pilot still mines less than the Mackinaw pilot, but that's due to skills, and the gap is closed considerably.
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:I don't see how this would change the status quo. This might be up the Alpha's alley due to no access to barges, but then Omegas in barges can just strip the pockets out that much faster. They won't, if it's spread out enough. The barge might be able to set bookmarks quickly throughout the anomaly, but it'll still spend close to a minute warping in and out just to get at best 2-3 asteroids before warping out and in again. And if it's in a deadspace pocket, warp tricks won't work at all.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop Eve Radio Alliance
592
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Posted - 2016.12.22 15:23:10 -
[9] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Reaver Glitterstim wrote:and they contain too little ore too spread out across the grid to be useful for a barge, Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:The only way you would keep the bigger ships out would be to have a warp-gate excluding barges. Did you read the post? I explained how barges will fail to mine these out as fast as a Venture. But I can go into more detail if you don't understand: Example: you have asteroids each spaced so far apart that the mining ship must travel 25km to get to one more asteroid. Each asteroid has 800m3 of ore inside. A veteran in a Mackinaw mines 1000m3/minute without boosts. He can mine an asteroid in 48 seconds, but at 165m/s it takes him 2:30 to get to the next asteroid. The mining uptime is 32%. An alpha clone comes in with a Venture that mines only 200m3/minute without boosts. He can spend 4 minutes mining an asteroid while sitting near it, then just 20 seconds flying the 15km it takes to get in range of the next one. With some preparation, even that time can be reduced, but he's already at 92.3% mining uptime. The Venture pilot still mines less than the Mackinaw pilot, but that's due to skills, and the gap is closed considerably. Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:I don't see how this would change the status quo. This might be up the Alpha's alley due to no access to barges, but then Omegas in barges can just strip the pockets out that much faster. They won't, if it's spread out enough. The barge might be able to set bookmarks quickly throughout the anomaly, but it'll still spend close to a minute warping in and out just to get at best 2-3 asteroids before warping out and in again. And if it's in a deadspace pocket, warp tricks won't work at all.
Unless the group is a Hulk and Porpoise with a scanner or a scout. One player could make a living killing these pockets, and at 50-100% more minerals... it might be worth it. The rocks would definitely need to be spaced so a boosted hulk couldn't touch them all at once.
However, I'm still trying to find the need for such a mechanic such as these sigs anyway. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the idea, but it looks like a solution looking for a problem.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2995
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Posted - 2016.12.22 15:41:10 -
[10] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:However, I'm still trying to find the need for such a mechanic such as these sigs anyway. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the idea, but it looks like a solution looking for a problem.
--Gadget The problem is the old problem of mining-going back to the early days of EVE: the problem of making active mining more profitable than AFK mining. And I've found a solution.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2393
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Posted - 2016.12.22 15:58:27 -
[11] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:However, I'm still trying to find the need for such a mechanic such as these sigs anyway. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the idea, but it looks like a solution looking for a problem.
--Gadget The problem is the old problem of mining-going back to the early days of EVE: the problem of making active mining more profitable than AFK mining. And I've found a solution.
So your fix of afk mining is to nerf the venture (ore hold) and the prospect (ore hold and yield) and add high yield mini sites? That's not where this post started.
Wonking the hold on the venture and prospect will be a huge kick in the nutz for gassers and gassing operations. I don't think your idea will cure eve of afk mining it will just **** of gassers. Let's be honest - WH players keep getting kicked in the nutz as it is, I don't think screwing gassers is a good next step.
AND FINALLY - here's what you are missing about AFK mining. The premise is that I want to do it AFK. I'm not worried about mini pockets being more profitable. I'm just looking to pull in some AFK income while I'm doing chores around the house. There is NO incentive you can put in the game that will do the laundry and 30 other honey do's on my list so I can sit down full time mine properly. For me AFK mining is something I check on periodically while I'm making my wife happy (cleaning the shower and what not).
You can make at the keyboard mining more profitable than say botting, but you can never make any facet of mining better than AFK mining, because I don't care about profits, I care about getting my wife's list done and I can grab some veld here and there while I'm doing that. DO YOU SEE NOW????
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2995
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Posted - 2016.12.22 16:39:45 -
[12] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Wonking the hold on the venture and prospect will be a huge kick in the nutz for gassers and gassing operations. I don't think your idea will cure eve of afk mining it will just **** of gassers. Let's be honest - WH players keep getting kicked in the nutz as it is, I don't think screwing gassers is a good next step. It's a fair point, but gas volume is very low so I really don't think they'll be hurt that much by a reduction in their ore holds. I don't want to hurt gas mining, though.
Serendipity Lost wrote:AND FINALLY - here's what you are missing about AFK mining. The premise is that I want to do it AFK. I'm not worried about mini pockets being more profitable. I'm just looking to pull in some AFK income while I'm doing chores around the house. There is NO incentive you can put in the game that will do the laundry and 30 other honey do's on my list so I can sit down full time mine properly. For me AFK mining is something I check on periodically while I'm making my wife happy (cleaning the shower and what not).
You can make at the keyboard mining more profitable than say botting, but you can never make any facet of mining better than AFK mining, because I don't care about profits, I care about getting my wife's list done and I can grab some veld here and there while I'm doing that. DO YOU SEE NOW???? I haven't missed anything. I'm not suggesting that you stop AFK mining. In my suggestion, intrusion mining would be marginally more profitable than AFK mining--don't let the +100% yield fool you. After counting time spent probing the site and all that warping to drop or get in position as well as the reduced mining output of the frigate, the yields don't wind up being that high after all when compared to AFK mining. I like AFK mining, too. With my proposal, you're free to AFK mine exactly the same as before--though your profits may drop a very tiny amount due to the influx of slightly more minerals from the folks who do choose to mine actively.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3449
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Posted - 2016.12.22 16:54:30 -
[13] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:What's stopping you from being able to do this with current belts? Cherry pick the +10%s if you're ninja mining. Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:... as a vet who mines exclusively in prospects i take offence to this The Prospect mines like a barge, the Venture does not.
mining in a prospect is nothing like mining in a barge thanks to its higher speed and lower range. the prospect mines just like a venture just a bit faster. not to mention gas sites.... you know those sites that mining frigs do better than any other ship. or shattered frig WH where you can only get frigs in to mine
BLOPS Hauler
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2393
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Posted - 2016.12.22 17:01:02 -
[14] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Wonking the hold on the venture and prospect will be a huge kick in the nutz for gassers and gassing operations. I don't think your idea will cure eve of afk mining it will just **** of gassers. Let's be honest - WH players keep getting kicked in the nutz as it is, I don't think screwing gassers is a good next step. It's a fair point, but gas volume is very low so I really don't think they'll be hurt that much by a reduction in their ore holds. I don't want to hurt gas mining, though. Serendipity Lost wrote:AND FINALLY - here's what you are missing about AFK mining. The premise is that I want to do it AFK. I'm not worried about mini pockets being more profitable. I'm just looking to pull in some AFK income while I'm doing chores around the house. There is NO incentive you can put in the game that will do the laundry and 30 other honey do's on my list so I can sit down full time mine properly. For me AFK mining is something I check on periodically while I'm making my wife happy (cleaning the shower and what not).
You can make at the keyboard mining more profitable than say botting, but you can never make any facet of mining better than AFK mining, because I don't care about profits, I care about getting my wife's list done and I can grab some veld here and there while I'm doing that. DO YOU SEE NOW???? I haven't missed anything. I'm not suggesting that you stop AFK mining. In my suggestion, intrusion mining would be marginally more profitable than AFK mining--don't let the +100% yield fool you. After counting time spent probing the site and all that warping to drop or get in position as well as the reduced mining output of the frigate, the yields don't wind up being that high after all when compared to AFK mining. I like AFK mining, too. With my proposal, you're free to AFK mine exactly the same as before--though your profits may drop a very tiny amount due to the influx of slightly more minerals from the folks who do choose to mine actively.
What is the gas volume for c320 and c540? How can you consider this low? You just said this would take care of the problem in a previous post, now you're saying not to worry, afk mining will be impacted by a 'very tiny amount'. Which is it?
At this poiht I have to ask - Have you ever used a venture or a prospect? Have you ever gassed? This is getting whackier by the minute. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2393
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Posted - 2016.12.22 17:02:24 -
[15] - Quote
Can an alpha clone use the venture and/or prospect?
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3449
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Posted - 2016.12.22 17:11:30 -
[16] - Quote
it can use the venture
BLOPS Hauler
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1531
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Posted - 2016.12.22 17:26:11 -
[17] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Throughout EVE's history, frigates have been unpopular for mining...
That's the first time I am hearing this. Seriously, the Venture was a success story since the announcement and have you even tried the Prospect or the Endurance?
I don't say this often but I don't wanna miss my Endurance, the best ice mining boat in New Eden. I am indifferent about the Prospect and Endurance about deep core mining or ore mining.
I lean more to the Endurance because of the bigger ore bay, the drone bay, the swiss-army-knife-I-can-do-everything-and-probe-and-OMG-solo-BBQ-drones-mining and murder boat.
I mean what, that boat is a miners wet dream come true and she has the proper slot layout for a shield tank and a cloak that doesn't slow her down.
By the time someone warps to your belt or anomaly or ice belt, you uncloak at 3000km away and say bye.
Mining frigates are awesome.
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop Eve Radio Alliance
595
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Posted - 2016.12.22 17:58:58 -
[18] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:
Mining frigates are awesome.
So was my mining Navitas... At least I thought it was at the time.
--Reminiscing Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
881
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Posted - 2016.12.22 19:36:11 -
[19] - Quote
You just described ninja gas mining |
Cade Windstalker
639
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Posted - 2016.12.22 20:00:44 -
[20] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:What you're looking for here is ninja-mining in Frig class wormholes. It's extremely profitable for the risk and time involved and can only be realistically done in a frigate class hull. I haven't done it myself, but with existing asteroid ore types and mining frigate ore holds, I don't see how that's possible. Are you saying that these anomalies have richer ore types than exist elsewhere? But even if it's solved for wormhole space, there still aren't mining opportunities like this in K-space.
Nope, I'm saying that for the risk (a relatively cheap ship in a wormhole many other ships can't even enter) the reward is quite high.
If you're looking for a better reward out of a T1 Frigate than you can get out of a much large ship that's more expensive, more vulnerable, and mines more... I'd say pull the other one, it's got bells on. That's just not how risk/reward works in Eve. |
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2995
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Posted - 2016.12.23 02:07:27 -
[21] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:What is the gas volume for c320 and c540? How can you consider this low? You just said this would take care of the problem in a previous post, now you're saying not to worry, afk mining will be impacted by a 'very tiny amount'. Which is it?
At this poiht I have to ask - Have you ever used a venture or a prospect? Have you ever gassed? Have you? The volume is irrelevant, a Venture at max skills with t2 harvesters pulls in 160m3 gas per minute, without command bursts. That'll take over a half hour to fill the Venture's ore bay, over an hour to fill the Prospect. That takes longer to fill up than a Mackinaw mining ice.
To answer your question, yes I have mined gas, and yes I have flown a Venture plenty of times.
Cade Windstalker wrote:Nope, I'm saying that for the risk (a relatively cheap ship in a wormhole many other ships can't even enter) the reward is quite high.
If you're looking for a better reward out of a T1 Frigate than you can get out of a much large ship that's more expensive, more vulnerable, and mines more... I'd say pull the other one, it's got bells on. That's just not how risk/reward works in Eve. How does the reward compare to low-risk mining in a cheap retriever in Nullsec? I can mine up an average value of crokite all day on days PL isn't around, which is about half of the days. Are you mining up enough ore to break even in profit with a retriever constantly mining crokite?
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3645
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Posted - 2016.12.23 02:45:14 -
[22] - Quote
I think this idea is very close to gas sites.
What I've really come to say is make 5% and 10% ore much rarer but buff yields to +50% and +100%. I say this because i find 5% and 10% ores annoying but rather than remove them completely, putting super-versions of them in dangerous space could be fun.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Cade Windstalker
640
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Posted - 2016.12.23 04:24:29 -
[23] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Nope, I'm saying that for the risk (a relatively cheap ship in a wormhole many other ships can't even enter) the reward is quite high.
If you're looking for a better reward out of a T1 Frigate than you can get out of a much large ship that's more expensive, more vulnerable, and mines more... I'd say pull the other one, it's got bells on. That's just not how risk/reward works in Eve. How does the reward compare to low-risk mining in a cheap retriever in Nullsec? I can mine up an average value of crokite all day on days PL isn't around, which is about half of the days. Are you mining up enough ore to break even in profit with a retriever constantly mining crokite?
In a Prospect? Sure, probably, though without hard mining numbers for the two I can't say too much.
Again though, the Venture is still *far* cheaper than the Retriever, to the point that you can lose around 8-10 T2 fitted Ventures for the cost of one T2 fitted Retriever.
Also your Retriever is being protected by an entire Alliance's work and logistics, and is at worst slightly less likely to die than a careful and clever completely solo Venture pilot who knows how their D-Scan works.
Even if I upgrade to a Prospect my ship is worth less than your Retriever and it has a cloak while being innately harder to catch.
Again, the risk here is far lower, the ship being risked is worth far less, the time required to pay back the cost of said ship is minuscule, and the rewards are just fine. What you're asking for isn't needed for the game or at all realistic.
The only way to create what you're looking for here would be to introduce something massively out of line with the current rewards for mining and then try to weirdly and artificially restrict it to make it somehow magically not broken or the best possible thing someone can do with their time in a mining ship ever.
That's patently ridiculous and I'm really not sure how you can't seem to see that... |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2995
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Posted - 2016.12.23 04:50:28 -
[24] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:That's patently ridiculous and I'm really not sure how you can't seem to see that... I can't seem to see how you actually believe your Venture mines anything close to Retriever value with such a large fraction of down time, even if you were mining exclusively +10% Arkonor. Is there some new kind of ore in these sites, or is one of us completely failing at math here? It seems pretty simple: Venture mines about half what the Retriever mines, running through sites takes up at least a third of your time, so you'd have to mine ores 3x the value of Crokite to break even with me. Even if you were mining at a significantly lower profit, it could be reasonable since it doesn't require alliance logistics and the Venture is much cheaper than the Retriever (Prospect is NOT). But I'm finding it difficult to believe you make significantly more profit than mining Veldspar in highsec with a Retriever. Once again, I haven't done this and I can't find a lot of resources online to study it, but if it's just ore, the math doesn't add up to you getting some decent profit justifying the work.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2395
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Posted - 2016.12.23 11:45:45 -
[25] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:What is the gas volume for c320 and c540? How can you consider this low? You just said this would take care of the problem in a previous post, now you're saying not to worry, afk mining will be impacted by a 'very tiny amount'. Which is it?
At this poiht I have to ask - Have you ever used a venture or a prospect? Have you ever gassed? Have you? The volume is irrelevant, a Venture at max skills with t2 harvesters pulls in 160m3 gas per minute, without command bursts. That'll take over a half hour to fill the Venture's ore bay, over an hour to fill the Prospect. That takes longer to fill up than a Mackinaw mining ice. To answer your question, yes I have mined gas, and yes I have flown a Venture plenty of times. Cade Windstalker wrote:Nope, I'm saying that for the risk (a relatively cheap ship in a wormhole many other ships can't even enter) the reward is quite high.
If you're looking for a better reward out of a T1 Frigate than you can get out of a much large ship that's more expensive, more vulnerable, and mines more... I'd say pull the other one, it's got bells on. That's just not how risk/reward works in Eve. How does the reward compare to low-risk mining in a cheap retriever in Nullsec? I can mine up an average value of crokite all day on days PL isn't around, which is about half of the days. Are you mining up enough ore to break even in profit with a retriever constantly mining crokite?
So here's how it works in WH space. You have to go 1 to 3 systems out to mine the gas. So where a Nullninny like you is just round tripping to station in your upgraded system, WH gas mining involves 1 or more jumps to get you gas back to a citadel. Dropping the hold down is a big deal. I recommend you come to WH space and use these ships for what they were designed for before you come up with some whacky idea to screw them over. My corp is in an OK spot as we can scan access to high end WH. Smaller low end corps can't readily do that. Your hold reduction would pretty much kill low end wh gassing for the little guy. This is yet another case of an idea that hasn't really looked at the big picture and clearly doesn't give a crap about the little guy trying to make his way up the ladder.
Overall you want to nerf 2 currently balanced ships in order to create mini high end ore sites that go directly against current standard mining practices. Sigh.... SMOKE LESS, THINK MORE! |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1535
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Posted - 2016.12.24 02:37:22 -
[26] - Quote
Again, mining frigates are awesome and can stay as they are until the end of time.
Venture - perfect balanced and nuanced beginner and even veterans choice.
Prospect - covert ops and cyno gank mobi- errm I mean gas and ore mining frigate
Endurance - Ice mining perfection in a small swiss-army-knife.
Everything is fine.
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3461
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Posted - 2016.12.24 02:39:56 -
[27] - Quote
this is another case of "I" cant find a use in something so it must be broken
BLOPS Hauler
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2996
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Posted - 2016.12.24 06:02:52 -
[28] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:So here's how it works in WH space. You have to go 1 to 3 systems out to mine the gas. So where a Nullninny like you is just round tripping to station in your upgraded system, WH gas mining involves 1 or more jumps to get you gas back to a citadel. Dropping the hold down is a big deal. I recommend you come to WH space and use these ships for what they were designed for before you come up with some whacky idea to screw them over. My corp is in an OK spot as we can scan access to high end WH. Smaller low end corps can't readily do that. Your hold reduction would pretty much kill low end wh gassing for the little guy. This is yet another case of an idea that hasn't really looked at the big picture and clearly doesn't give a crap about the little guy trying to make his way up the ladder.
Overall you want to nerf 2 currently balanced ships in order to create mini high end ore sites that go directly against current standard mining practices. Sigh.... SMOKE LESS, THINK MORE! I didn't know that, but it's not super important to the economics of gas mining. When CCP released the Venture, they gave us a huge boost to gas mining. This caused gas prices and booster prices to drop a lot. It's easier to mine gas now, but you get less profit for doing it. The playerbase balances this aspect. Gas mining wouldn't be killed at all by an ore hold reduction, it'll just become more difficult and more rewarding.
Just the same, however, I don't want gas mining to get any harder than it is, and I don't want boosters to be any more expensive than they are. But I think the solution would be to offer more options for gas mining than just the mining frigates. They already reduced the Exequror's cargohold, I used to use that ship for gas mining back when it had 900m3 base cargo. Perhaps the Porpoise could be able to use gas harvesting drones. Also if you are gas mining with a group, someone can bring an industrial--a Miasmos can hold over 6 Venture-hours worth of gas.
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:this is another case of "I" cant find a use in something so it must be broken You might be right. I am asking nicely for one of you guys to explain to me how a Venture can make decent profit mining ore. Or at least I'm asking. Perhaps someone could give me the juicy details? So far all I've been told are vague notions of something along the lines of this: 1.) get Venture 2.) fly into shattered frigate system 3.) ??? 4.) profit
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5088
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Posted - 2016.12.24 12:59:57 -
[29] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote: I am asking nicely for one of you guys to explain to me how a Venture can make decent profit mining ore. Or at least I'm asking. Perhaps someone could give me the juicy details? So far all I've been told are vague notions of something along the lines of this: 1.) get Venture 2.) fly into shattered frigate system 3.) ??? 4.) profit
I'll give it a try.
1.) get Venture 2.) fly into shattered frigate system 3.) mine ABCs or whatever other high end ores are in system 4.) profit
How's that? |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services Singularity Syndicate
2101
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Posted - 2016.12.24 13:09:15 -
[30] - Quote
The mining frigates are currently some of the best balanced ships for their respective jobs.
Move along please, nothing to see here... |
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