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Himani Yeshua
Caldari PezCo - Ice Services Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.11 15:06:00 -
[61]
Do you mean only elitists can do math?
/I must be an elitist!
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Disclaimers are stupid.
Of Course your views represent those of your corporation. |
Shinoobie
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.11 15:16:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Shinoobie on 11/04/2007 15:12:55
Originally by: Temporal flux So, why not implement a system that has an in-built flow/comparison chart that matches up whatever module/equipment (everything else) to its counter-part and/or item?
This already exists in game. Bring up a show info on a module and then click the comparison button. :) ______________________________________________
I wish mods would leave my sig alone - Shinoobie |
Kerfira
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Posted - 2007.04.11 15:17:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Kerfira on 11/04/2007 15:15:25
Originally by: Temporal flux
Originally by: Kerfira my initial post was a reply to the OP (you know, like in the guy who started this post...), not you. You seem to have just come along and hijacked the thread....
Hijacked eh? Actually, no, I'm carbon. So again, Case closed.
Still open, since you haven't tried to argue anything.
Your argument is basically this: "I don't like the game as it is! Change it to MY likings and don't care about everyone else!"
You're completely disregarding that a large amount of players like EVE exactly because it IS a complex and challenging game. We tried the game, liked the complexity, and stayed. Other people tried the game, didn't like the complexity, and left. You on the other hand wants the game changed to your liking.....
So, yes, that IS whining.....
You're like someone who joins a hockey club, realise he doesn't like hockey and then wants everyone else in the club to play golf instead because that suits him better.....
General advice: Stop whining! |
Shinoobie
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.11 15:20:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
But what this game can use, is a built in fitout designer. I.E You can build and save your fitouts and when docked, load them, with the game automatically picking the mods from your hanger if they are available.
This also exists in parts.
Keep you fit outs in cans. Use strip fitting to remove all PVE modules from your ship. Put them in the PVE can. Open up the PVP can, select all, right click and "Fit to active ship".
Voila! ______________________________________________
I wish mods would leave my sig alone - Shinoobie |
Korizan
Oort Cloud Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.11 15:36:00 -
[65]
I used to play EQ1 and Eq2 and there were tons of hard core players who wanted to know the NUMBERS on how this was calculated or how this happened and how to get every last bit of an advantage out of the game. And for the most part the people @ SONY didn't tell them a thing as the game was not really set up for numbers but it still didn't stop them from running them.
And the thing that nobody ever liked hearing was OMG it is RANDOM how can I plan around this you must remove it !!!!!
Eve is a game based in space so numbers are naturally part of it. And to CCP's credit they give all those who want numbers till they puke from headaches. But for most part they are not needed. Trial end error works well and there are tons of stuff on the boards from help tools to ship setups as others have stated above.
In regards to ship setups well most games do have a form of this. Eq series in equipment and buffs Mechwarrior - mech setups was a VERY BIG part of the game
But the big difference is most games don't give all the numbers like CCP does so it is not as obvious.
I think it is just not the math that scares people in EVE and gets people intimidated. Perhaps it is the concept of from day one you are handed everything the universe and even all the numbers on how the universe works. Is that intimidating Yes I think everyone goes through the shock of the EVE universe when it first sinks in.
So is Math required in this game ... NO ... but it is always there if you want to use it.
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Connen
Gallente Imperium Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.11 15:53:00 -
[66]
When I have 0 grid and 0 cpu left, then I know I've done my math properly - thats all it comes down to for me. Fill those bars till they go over the max texture, 0.5 cpu left means you not using the maximum efficiency of your ship - swap out something and refill (heck even if it means re-doing the entire build).
What I want is a damn "remove all ammo button" and beside it a drop down which (if available) will recognize the ammo I have in my hanger and allow me to automatically reload all the ammo.
At the moment, I unload all my ammo before docking, and then simply swap - but I want more automation for something so silly as loading and unload ammo. Same as when I'm flying ships please give me "unload all guns, reload all guns" function - come on now! With all the lag sometimes it becomes a sticky process of swapping lasers, changing ammo types on missiles, bullets, magazines to combat someones tanks.
As for the op - math or no math one thing is for sure - the BLOB or Lag will pwn your officer fitted 100% efficient ship.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2007.04.11 15:54:00 -
[67]
I like complexity. I like figuring out how things work. I don't mind using a calculator for some simple math one bit. Or a spreadsheet. I enjoy it. I'm not the best at it, nor the most dedicated and that's fine by me. If it's easy, or streamlined, it's not worth it and *very* quickly becomes boring. Imho.
I don't want to use quickfit, I don't want it streamlined. I'd rather calculate a little, plan ahead a little and go by trial & error a little. So I don't agree at all with the OP. There would be no sense of discovery, no surprises and no/little reward for figuring things out beforehand by yourself if quickfit and similar tools were built into the game. When my brain stops hurting (to use the OP's expression), I'll get bored and find something else within a month. I play for the "hmmm" <strokes chin> moments just as much if not more then for the "adrenaline" moments.
Especially in strategy games but also to some degree in RPG's, and EVE contains some elements of both, I usually enjoy the planning stage far more then actually executing the plan. Even though it's an exaggeration, I might say that planning is fun, executing is work. Learning is fun, pwning with that gained knowledge is boring. That's just my personal opinion of course, I'm not saying anyone else *should* feel the same way. Each to their own.
A more "streamlined" EVE would diminish my enjoyment of the game however. I wan't more complexity and more (discoverable) unknowns, not less.
For others that like semi steep learning curves like EVE's, as well as strategy games, I heartily recommend Paradox games like Europa Universalis and Hearts of Iron. I haven't touched either since I installed EVE, though I'm sure to return to them once I take a break from this game, as they are definitely worth the time and effort to learn and explore even if they certainly aren't for everyone. Just like I suspect EVE is worth it, but I'm too young (not even a month yet) to be sure about that.
To the OP, is it really fruitful to be so agressive in your posting? Why do you try to insult and scorn others in your very first paragraph as well as throughout much of your posting? And no, I did not think "Wow, math possibilities" when I learned of EVE.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.04.11 15:57:00 -
[68]
I've played MMOs where the producers tried to obfuscate the math away from the game. I think they were trying to make it more like old D&D where you had to sell your soul to find out if the sword you were waving was +2 of underware snatching or a -1 to butt funkyness or whatever. The hardcore players still figured out the math of things by going to the test server and doing thousands of attacks to pin down the numbers.
Screw that.
I'd rather have the complexity "in your face", if you will, like Eve is. Trust me, things can be even more hardcore than what eve has to offer. "Simplifying" a game can actually make the divide between "elite" and regular players greater.
Now if you mean to simplify the interface in a way like Quick Fit, sure. I think these player created tools are great indicators of missing functionality. Should we have to download third party tools and risk who knows what maliscious code doing so, just to enjoy a game? Ideally, no. And honestly we don't have to. Eve is perfectly enjoyable without them, they just make things a bit easier. But it's no different than any other MMO out there. All games have areas they can improve in.
So you may have a point. But not one that justifies your over the top defensive posting style.
------------------- Say What? |
Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.04.11 16:17:00 -
[69]
If it makes you feel any better, I didn't read the math in Halada's Mining Guide either.
When people start talking about m3 per cycle my eyes glaze over.
But I know that Miner 2 gives more ore than Miner 1.
And I know that Jaspet is more valuable than Veldspar.
And I know that a Mammoth has a bigger cargo hold than a Badger 2.
Where's the math?
Ya know, it doesn't take Einstein to put 2 guns side by side and see which one has better tracking.
I got a D in Calculus, I'm not a math person at all, but I know .20 x 1 mil = 200k profit (and they even give you a calculator, in case you're even worse at math than me).
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MasterEnt
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Posted - 2007.04.11 17:38:00 -
[70]
All I can say is wow. LOL Sorry you are having a tough time keeping up...
CCP.. can we get a remedial version of EVE for this guy...
EVE-lite maybe?
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Nyabinghi
Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.04.11 17:55:00 -
[71]
Funny thing is you can have your math down perfect and fly one uber-pimped ship and it all don't mean squat in 0.0 fleet battles. Node p0wns all.
***
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Fenderson
OLE Mining Corp Miners With Attitude
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Posted - 2007.04.11 18:03:00 -
[72]
tho math and knowing statistics does help alot, i honestly feel that the human element is a much greater factor in this game.
sigs are for the weak |
Angellyne
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Posted - 2007.04.11 18:29:00 -
[73]
Originally by: MasterEnt All I can say is wow. LOL Sorry you are having a tough time keeping up...
CCP.. can we get a remedial version of EVE for this guy...
EVE-lite maybe?
And Eve-Forum-Lite for this one, please.
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La Madrina
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Posted - 2007.04.11 18:29:00 -
[74]
I definately didn't read anything past the OP, and that was WAY over my head, so here goes:
1) Go play Wow 2) Can I have your stuff? 3) Cry more noob.
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Angellyne
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Posted - 2007.04.11 18:32:00 -
[75]
Originally by: La Madrina I definately didn't read anything past the OP, and that was WAY over my head, so here goes:
1) Go play Wow 2) Can I have your stuff? 3) Cry more noob.
Erm, and this one too.
Come to think of it, THIS might be Eve-Forum-Lite. Anyone got a link to the forum where people don't reply to topics they feel are over their heads?
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.11 18:47:00 -
[76]
Mathematical optimizations aside, there is very little a single player can do, even with a Titan or similar capital ship, which is what I love about EVE. a dozen frigates could take out a CNR with officer gear if done properly. The most valuable asset in EVE isn't the best equipment, the best ships, or those fancy-schmancy 500 mil implants - It's people. I can do more with a corporation of a dozen 3-month-old players. than a 4-year-old player in a CNR or Dread. <sig> IBTL! IBDS! IBTC! 1st in a BoB Post! And other such forum tom-foolery. Join my Corporation! |
Raoden Tanstaafl
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.11 20:10:00 -
[77]
I'm allergic to numbers, and specifically to math. When fitting my ship, I'll glance at the numbers, but they don't really mean anything to me. Like Egyptian hierglyphs... Especially when you take skills into consideration. A certain gun may do X amount of damage, but with these certain skills leveled up to whatever level increases it by 2% per level... Which of course changes based on what ammo you use, etc... Ugh... Makes my head hurt just thinking about it. I just fit what I think is good, and fly it for a while. If it doesn't perform as I expected (or hoped), I try again...
I do agree with the thought that a QuickFit type of system (in game) would be quite advantageous. I've bought things which I thought were good items, only to find out I can't fit them with items X & Y, which I already have due to powergrid or capacitor limitations. I've wasted an awful lot of ISK that way, but not enough to make me lose interest in the game.
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DarthJosh
Amarr Valiant Logistics Inc.
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Posted - 2007.04.11 20:18:00 -
[78]
I agree with the OP
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Krugerrand
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.04.11 20:19:00 -
[79]
The simple way to fitting ships: 1) get someone to do it for you 2) try it out, if you live, it works, if you die, it sucked or you got ganked.
I hardly put much effort into thinking the exact ability in damage/tank ability, just a rough idea is enough.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.04.11 20:55:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Brutor Shaun I never calculate anything. I just stick stuff on my ship, and if it does the job then great. If it doesn't then I swap stuff about til it does what I want. No stress, and 90% success!
Yeah I dunno what the OP is all on about either. I don't know anyone who sits there mathing away crap, and I know lots of people who just stick stuff on ships and go make them explodie. Maybe the OP should try some tactics.
- - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - "We need to invent a new Clue Super Weapon... Something that distributes clue on a never before seen level." -Cpt Psycho |
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The RepoMan
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.11 21:22:00 -
[81]
eve's combat system is incredibly simple and straightforward, if you're confused it's just because you're new. Lots of options that all do the exact same thing is eve's motto.
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NeverL
Enterprise Estonia Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.04.11 22:02:00 -
[82]
didnt read the first post
but if u have more expirience you should be able to do more stuff.
and the fact that u can train skill when ur offline allows me to go to work and get laid ----------------- My dream is to become the best forum warrior there is. Even better then Molle Sir. |
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