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Alpha CEO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2017.02.14 08:05:01 -
[151] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:I know the anti-ganking crowd hate that presentation would gladly burn CCP Rise or anyother Dev pointing to that presentation at the steak. Don't burn the steak man. Don't burn the steak.
Stick to stakes instead. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5928
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 09:28:10 -
[152] - Quote
Alpha CEO wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:I know the anti-ganking crowd hate that presentation would gladly burn CCP Rise or anyother Dev pointing to that presentation at the steak. Don't burn the steak man. Don't burn the steak. Stick to stakes instead.
You are right never burn a steak, burn the stake.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Yarosara Ruil
Haighare Pirates
921
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 12:19:41 -
[153] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:You are right never burn a steak, burn the stake.
Instructions unclear, made grilled shish kebabs.
Now I'm hungry... |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
5550
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 14:58:29 -
[154] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Toobo wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Toobo wrote:It needs to be said high sec mission running is not the only form of PVE. As some have mentioned, you can do missions in low/NPC null sec, and there are other PVE activities such as explorations, anom running in low/null and WH. While these involve the environment they also have an element of competition to them. Aside from missions these more of a grey area, IMO. Hm yeah. Idea of 'mission's is a bit funny, especially the way some people see it (MY own private dungeon!), while element of competition is such a key thing in EVE. Overall I do definitely agree that PVE in EVE can improve though, including missions. But I just wanted to point out that even the same PVE we already have now can be more fun/rewarding if done in different space (anywhere but high sec :p) I just felt that it would take very long time for CCP to touch the HS missions or make any substantial PVE expansions (well, just my guess, I don't see it happening any time very soon), so probably the best bet for PVE lovers is to go out and do them in different spaces in mean while. Well, so far it's more like "to go out and do them in different games"... CCP talks about "comfort zone", but paying customers talk about "reason to give money to CCP". People don't leave their "comfort zone", they leave EVE. I am not opposed to better PvE so long as it promotes more player-on-player interaction. IMO, that is what CCPs presentation at the 2015 Fanfest on suicide ganking and the new player experience shows. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A92Ge2S8M1Y I know the anti-ganking crowd hate that presentation would gladly burn CCP Rise or anyother Dev pointing to that presentation at the steak. But what I think that presentation shows is that player-on-player interaction is what keeps people involved with the game. Keep in mind one thing that presentation did not cover was COOPERATIVE player-on-player interaction. It is possible that is even better at player retention (or maybe not). But like most people the anti-ganking crowd can't take some lemons and turn them into lemonade. Instead they have to down play that presentation and make the case for insulating people from player-on-player interaction which is most likely not good for the game.
What is not good for the game is to let go people who don't use videogames for socializing.
I don't have a problem with player interaction, but it should not be a requirement to enjoy the game, and content that can be enjoyed on your own (solo, but not alone) should be allotted resources in proportion to its weight. Solo players are not an exception, and they are not doing it wrong since that's what they pay CCP for and telling people that they're wrong to give you money is a bad idea. Solo players are the largest minority in EVE, and CCP's efforts to gate all new content behind forceful cooperation / interaction is just alienating them for no reason.
CCP needs people outside to go inside and pay them money, not to convert to the holy church of how right is EVE Online and how wrong is everybody else. If they want to play solo, CCP must give them solo content, or pass without their money and explain its employees why their salaries have become redundant thanks to CCP Seagull's vision of the game. |
Wolfgang Jannesen
The Evesploratory Society
32
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Posted - 2017.02.14 15:13:34 -
[155] - Quote
You're all perfectly capable of making a fleet if you feel like flying with others, or rolling solo if you don't. There's a PvE activity for you no matter how many friends you have. |
Lukka
9
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Posted - 2017.02.14 15:16:52 -
[156] - Quote
You're absolutely right, guys! PvE is just right where it is. Nobody wants a meaningful experience while playing as PvP bait. If anything there needs to be more monotonous clicking and fiddling with irritating menus. It builds character!
So as you can see, Mr. OP, Eve has everything it needs! It doesn't need your fanciful ideas of fun, enjoyment or fulfilment. It needs you to keep pressing F1 and quit yo jibba-jabba. |
Wolfgang Jannesen
The Evesploratory Society
32
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Posted - 2017.02.14 15:17:57 -
[157] - Quote
Lukka wrote:You're absolutely right, guys! PvE is just right where it is. Nobody wants a meaningful experience while playing as PvP bait. If anything there needs to be more monotonous clicking and fiddling with irritating menus. It builds character!
So as you can see, Mr. OP, Eve has everything it needs! It doesn't need your fanciful ideas of fun, enjoyment or fulfilment. It needs you to keep pressing F1 and quit yo jibba-jabba.
This kid gets it |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5936
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Posted - 2017.02.14 18:48:40 -
[158] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
What is not good for the game is to let go people who don't use videogames for socializing.
I don't have a problem with player interaction, but it should not be a requirement to enjoy the game, and content that can be enjoyed on your own (solo, but not alone) should be allotted resources in proportion to its weight. Solo players are not an exception, and they are not doing it wrong since that's what they pay CCP for and telling people that they're wrong to give you money is a bad idea. Solo players are the largest minority in EVE, and CCP's efforts to gate all new content behind forceful cooperation / interaction is just alienating them for no reason.
CCP needs people outside to go inside and pay them money, not to convert to the holy church of how right is EVE Online and how wrong is everybody else. If they want to play solo, CCP must give them solo content, or pass without their money and explain its employees why their salaries have become redundant thanks to CCP Seagull's vision of the game.
Actually letting those players go is good for the game. What makes this game great is the player interactions. The meta game. The big battles, the small battles, the scams, the thefts, the great stories. Nobody wants to hear about how they beat a boring mission that can be min-maxed in short order.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3097
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 19:33:25 -
[159] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
What is not good for the game is to let go people who don't use videogames for socializing.
I don't have a problem with player interaction, but it should not be a requirement to enjoy the game, and content that can be enjoyed on your own (solo, but not alone) should be allotted resources in proportion to its weight. Solo players are not an exception, and they are not doing it wrong since that's what they pay CCP for and telling people that they're wrong to give you money is a bad idea. Solo players are the largest minority in EVE, and CCP's efforts to gate all new content behind forceful cooperation / interaction is just alienating them for no reason.
CCP needs people outside to go inside and pay them money, not to convert to the holy church of how right is EVE Online and how wrong is everybody else. If they want to play solo, CCP must give them solo content, or pass without their money and explain its employees why their salaries have become redundant thanks to CCP Seagull's vision of the game.
Actually letting those players go is good for the game. What makes this game great is the player interactions. The meta game. The big battles, the small battles, the scams, the thefts, the great stories. Nobody wants to hear about how they beat a boring mission that can be min-maxed in short order.
Being able to team-up for any type of PvE content would help with that but right now it is not really supported as you are forced to eat a nerf to your income to do so. The missions will never really be interesting anyway so might as well run them with friends so you still interact with other players. Make the current content pay in something else than ISK if the risk of inflation really is there but I think removing the AFK play would be a good counter to at least test.
Yes alts would be used but we can't really deal with that unless CCP decide to drop a hammer on multi-boxing and I don't see them doing this. |
Alderson Point
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2017.02.14 23:11:53 -
[160] - Quote
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:No one here has suggested that the PVP side of the game be touched at all. I've never understood the knee jerk reaction from the pvp players who act like the sky is falling and eve is going to burn to the ground the second that anyone suggests the pve experience could be improved.
eve isn't a zero sum game, what would be lost by new missions, new epic arcs, more voice acting, or whatever other kind of pve content being added? its not like they would be taking away your ships, or turning your guns into gummy bear launchers. If anything a better and more robust pve experience would attract more players to the game. which means more people in space, which means more targets to shoot at.
While I do agree that eve is a pvp centric game, and that the pvp does drive the economy, to say that it is ONLY about pvp is frankly blind and only looking at one half of the equation. without the people who go out there and engage in pve, the is no more isk entering the economy, and no more ships being built.
Yes enriching the pve experience may attract more "carebears" to the game... so what, all it would mean is cheaper ships and more targets, sounds like a net gain if you ask me. and sure some of them might not like the cut throat nature of the game and leave, but they where not going to stick around anyways. other people though might enjoy it and stick around, maybe even dip their toes into other aspects of the game as time goes on. The problem is some PVP players are terrified that if some other area of the game receives some improvement they will be unable to say EVE is a PVP game.
Newsflash! It isn't.
It is a sandbox that CONTAINS PVP elements. Someone shooting you when unarmed doesn't mean it's a PVP encounter, that is Ganking. Thats like saying new york is a PVP environment because there are muggers.
There is something for everyone, for those who say EVE is a PVP game get overyourself. You are outnumbered. |
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MadMuppet
A Better Corp Name
1181
|
Posted - 2017.02.15 02:05:55 -
[161] - Quote
Alderson Point wrote: The problem is some PVP players are terrified that if some other area of the game receives some improvement they will be unable to say EVE is a PVP game.
Newsflash! It isn't.
It is a sandbox that CONTAINS PVP elements. Someone shooting you when unarmed doesn't mean it's a PVP encounter, that is Ganking. Thats like saying new york is a PVP environment because there are muggers.
There is something for everyone, for those who say EVE is a PVP game get overyourself. You are outnumbered.
It is a PVP sandbox that has PVE elements. This game is, other than its base level, a PVP game first. That PVE piece it the basement level of the very complicated tower made from PVP. Changes to the basement impact the entire building. If you do it wrong the building will fall down.
This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5534
|
Posted - 2017.02.15 03:23:29 -
[162] - Quote
And one can also make the same argument that EVE is a PvE sandbox with PvP elements considering that most income is derived from PvE or, more specifically - PvR (player versus rock). I know, I know... heresy.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3101
|
Posted - 2017.02.15 16:27:18 -
[163] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote:Alderson Point wrote: The problem is some PVP players are terrified that if some other area of the game receives some improvement they will be unable to say EVE is a PVP game.
Newsflash! It isn't.
It is a sandbox that CONTAINS PVP elements. Someone shooting you when unarmed doesn't mean it's a PVP encounter, that is Ganking. Thats like saying new york is a PVP environment because there are muggers.
There is something for everyone, for those who say EVE is a PVP game get overyourself. You are outnumbered.
It is a PVP sandbox that has PVE elements. This game is, other than its base level, a PVP game first. That PVE piece it the basement level of the very complicated tower made from PVP. Changes to the basement impact the entire building. If you do it wrong the building will fall down.
The issue is that the basement is extremely important even if that's not what you are really selling. EVE is like condos. You sell an above ground unit but if the foundation are ****, the above ground unit will turn to **** too. You don't redo the foundation for no reason like you should not redo EVE's PVE from scratch but you should still look at it in case there are fissure for example. Redoing all the mission so they feel new is about as useful as putting carped in the basement of a condo tower. It might be cool for a while but it will get old real fast. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
15162
|
Posted - 2017.02.15 18:42:36 -
[164] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
What is not good for the game is to let go people who don't use videogames for socializing.
I don't have a problem with player interaction, but it should not be a requirement to enjoy the game, and content that can be enjoyed on your own (solo, but not alone) should be allotted resources in proportion to its weight. Solo players are not an exception, and they are not doing it wrong since that's what they pay CCP for and telling people that they're wrong to give you money is a bad idea. Solo players are the largest minority in EVE, and CCP's efforts to gate all new content behind forceful cooperation / interaction is just alienating them for no reason.
CCP needs people outside to go inside and pay them money, not to convert to the holy church of how right is EVE Online and how wrong is everybody else. If they want to play solo, CCP must give them solo content, or pass without their money and explain its employees why their salaries have become redundant thanks to CCP Seagull's vision of the game.
The translation from Fazmarai speak to English:
Give me what I want CCP (while I pretend I speak for everyone else when in reality next to no one else agree with me) or you will go bankrupt and loses all your real life money.
People have been saying a version of this (I call it the "appeal to CCP's wallet") approach since 2003, and it's never been true. Enopugh people have continuted to play the game to keep it a profitable venture for CCP despite this doomsaying by people who think they want CCP to change the game to suit them.
And I said 'think' because they are lying to themselves, they wouldn't have kept playing for all these years (especially after several public rage quits like what the above quoted poster is known for).
If CCP did up and change the game and offer "better pve" (whatever the hell that is) and "walking in stations" and "more solo content" these complainers would either complain about it not being enough/badly implemented or would just leave the game altoughter to find some other game they don't like so they can pester it's DEVs to make that game better... |
tar1901
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 08:59:56 -
[165] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:EVE Online is a PVP game. It is not meant to have 'good' PVE
Something like this said every PvP-online game that failed. Also a game that is now full of Pay2Win features can't claim it's a PvP game. You want to PvP against Alpha Clones that can't train 75% of the skills needed to fly decently?
No online game survived long without a decent PvE. For Eve online fortunately there was no competition so it survived until now. But as you know things are changing. Without a decent PvE this game will fail completely, but I guess CCP is focused now on making more money at the expense of long term game-play
PS. Alpha Clone on Eve is probably the worse F2P implementation I have seen in years. Worse than a Pay2Win Asian MMO. |
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
694
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 09:24:59 -
[166] - Quote
tar1901 wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:EVE Online is a PVP game. It is not meant to have 'good' PVE Something like this said every PvP-online game that failed. Also a game that is now full of Pay2Win features can't claim it's a PvP game. You want to PvP against Alpha Clones that can't train 75% of the skills needed to fly decently? No online game survived long without a decent PvE. For Eve online fortunately there was no competition so it survived until now. But as you know things are changing. Without a decent PvE this game will fail completely, but I guess CCP is focused now on making more money at the expense of long term game-play PS. Alpha Clone on Eve is probably the worse F2P implementation I have seen in years. Worse than a Pay2Win Asian MMO.
if you don't like EvE, why are you still here?
go away please!
Just Add Water
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
3134
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 12:08:03 -
[167] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:And one can also make the same argument that EVE is a PvE sandbox with PvP elements considering that most income is derived from PvE or, more specifically - PvR (player versus rock). I know, I know... heresy. Not really. CCP explicitly describes what the game is in this statement in the New Pilot FAQ: "[t]he essential core concept of EVE Online is that it is full time PvP in a sandbox environment."
You can have PvE in that sandbox, but is always structured such that you are vulnerable to the other players while you are participating PvE. Since you cannot PvE without participating in, or at least there being the possibility of, PvP, Eve is a PvP game. There are no instances, or private areas of the game, or anywhere where you are immune from attack by the other players when you undock.
Just because you can do PvE things like pick flowers or mine copper on a WoW PvP server, doesn't mean it isn't a PvP server. The very fact the game puts you at risk to the other players is what makes it PvP, even if you are not 100% engage in directly fighting the other players all the time.
Eve is a full-time, single universe, PvP game where the players are always vulnerable to each other by design. This magnificent, shared virtual universe and Battle Royale that CCP created is by definition and intention, a PvP game. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be fun and engaging PvE aspects (and CCP should devote some significant effort to this especially since PvE elements make up such a large fraction of the playtime of the total player base), but those aspects are always intended to get players interacting and competing with each other in the larger game, rather than in and of themselves be the content.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5593
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 12:13:19 -
[168] - Quote
Yeah, I know... Tomatoe - tomatoh.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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tar1901
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 12:24:46 -
[169] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote:
if you don't like EvE, why are you still here?
go away please!
good question.
Edit: Star citizen isn't released yet
bye |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27656
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 14:33:26 -
[170] - Quote
tar1901 wrote:Something like this said every PvP-online game that failed. Using a generalisation like that makes you look dumb. Several hundred first person shooters would like a word with you, they contain zero PvE and are a hugely successful segment of the gaming market.
Quote:Also a game that is now full of Pay2Win features can't claim it's a PvP game. Name one feature of Eve that is pay to win, and explain how it is pay to win. I, along with many others, will then proceed to provide examples of people who also thought that various features were pay to win and had it bite them in the ass, in order to explain to you how it isn't.
Quote:You want to PvP against Alpha Clones that can't train 75% of the skills needed to fly decently? Character skills != player skills.
Quote:No online game survived long without a decent PvE. For Eve online fortunately there was no competition so it survived until now. But as you know things are changing. Without a decent PvE this game will fail completely, but I guess CCP is focused now on making more money at the expense of long term game-play There's always been other multiplayer spaceship games out there, many of them touted to be Eve killers. The latest in those games is Elite Dangerous, which while fun and a halfway decent homage to the original Elite, is not in the same genre.
Star Citizen isn't a game, it's a tech demo for vaporware and quite possibly an epic scam that wouldn't be out of place in Eve
Quote:PS. Alpha Clone on Eve is probably the worse F2P implementation I have seen in years. Worse than a Pay2Win Asian MMO. It's little different from WoW's play to level 20 for free, pay if you want to level up further.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Jenn aSide
shinigami miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
15169
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Posted - 2017.02.16 14:43:15 -
[171] - Quote
I'm going to be so happy when the full SC game is out and these people who have been banging this drum go play it... and then quietly slink back to EVE Online after they realize that all that 'immersions' and 'safe pve' and 'avatar gameplay' actually turns out to not be what they wanted from a game anyways.
Just like most of them did with all those other games like Star Trek Online, Black Prophecy, the Star Wars games, No Man's Sky and Elite among others. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5598
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 14:50:25 -
[172] - Quote
And Chris Roberts is going to run out of money for hookers and blow before long.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1751
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 16:06:21 -
[173] - Quote
Doctor Mabuse wrote: I've got to disagree. At the moment if you grind for a week, missioning to buy that shiny ship, you really, really don't want to lose it in combat, as it represents a week of mundane activity. This brings a sense of loss and an adrenaline rush that no other game's PVP has.
For me it's the polar opposite. I've done so much of these mundane activities the last 5 years, I can't bring myself to do these chores anymore.
Doctor Mabuse wrote: If CCP suddenly make missions the greatest thing you can do with a mouse, keyboard and screen, losing that ship has no meaning, because 'Yay! Another weeks missioning!'
I would not mind having to do something fun in order to do something fun as my gameplay loop. The idea of having to slog through boring PVE content for enough space coins to do something enjoyable doesn't strike me as smart design at all. I would like to PVP more, but thinking about the steps involved to replace whatever I'm about to lose makes me not want to lose it. It makes me do some more PVE, I then decide that it takes waaaaay too long to reach my intended goal, and fire up the Xbox for some instant gratification.
I get that this game isn't about instant gratification. Just saying that in the end, it motivates me to seek instant gratification elsewhere instead of hatching colvulted plans to make ISK or grinding away at some threadmill. My eve carreer is ending not with a bang, but with a sigh. I guess it's inevitable but less boring PVE = more longlevity. Even if that longlevity isn't forever. |
ISD Chanisa Nemes
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
82
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Posted - 2017.02.16 16:14:48 -
[174] - Quote
Removed an off-topic post
ISD Chanisa Nemes
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3110
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 17:29:58 -
[175] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I'm going to be so happy when the full SC game is out and these people who have been banging this drum go play it... and then quietly slink back to EVE Online after they realize that all that 'immersions' and 'safe pve' and 'avatar gameplay' actually turns out to not be what they wanted from a game anyways. Just like most of them did with all those other games like Star Trek Online, Black Prophecy, the Star Wars games, No Man's Sky and Elite among others.
I don't always agree with you but that still does not mean I want you to die so don't hold your breath for that release.
More on topic, EVE's PVE will not be made "better" by changing the PVE itself but by changing how we do it. A lot of people would probably enjoy their "required" PVE time if they could do it with friends. It works for mining as is seen by people mining in fleets. I don't see any reason why it should be stupid like it is to rat in gang/fleet. Yes you can currently "cyno-tank" your ship if it has at least a bit of buffer for people to jump to save you but would't it be better to complete sites in a gang and possibly have small battles if someone invade?
Yes I am extremely aware this might absolutely NOT actually turn into small fights if invaded. Pointing this potential flaw is not required. I already know it is actually a good possibility knowing how people play EVE.
ISD Chanisa Nemes wrote:Removed an off-topic post
Is it bad if I somehow always read that ISD name as chainsaw memes? |
tar1901
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 18:05:30 -
[176] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Name one feature of Eve that is pay to win, and explain how it is pay to win.
Omega clone is the P2W and Alpha is the Free2Play. Alpha can't train even basic combat or defense skills to level 4 or 5. Same ship, Omega vs Alpha. And lets not talk about other aspects of the game where you hit the pay-wall. Transport skills .....lv 1 only!
What else, Skill point injectors. Pay and get the skilz..... |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27656
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 18:50:11 -
[177] - Quote
tar1901 wrote:Omega clone is the P2W and Alpha is the Free2Play. Omega is a paid subscription, Alpha is an unlimited length trial with restrictions to ensure it isn't abused.
Quote:Alpha can't train even basic combat or defense skills to level 4 or 5 Many of the core combat and defence skills are trainable to at least level 4 when using an alpha clone. Try doing some research before making silly claims.
Quote: Same ship, Omega vs Alpha. That fight would be more about the players skills than the character skills. Someone with an Alpha with shite character skills, but a good personal knowledge of how to get the most out of his ship despite that, stands a pretty good chance of kicking the ass of an Omega in the same ship with better character skills but little idea on how to use them.
Quote:And lets not talk about other aspects of the game where you hit the pay-wall. Transport skills .....lv 1 only! Paywall !=P2W. An alpha clone is a free sample, if you want the whole product you go omega.
Quote:What else, Skill point injectors. Pay and get the skilz..... Skills which you probably have no idea how to leverage properly, go up against somebody with the exact same skills but who does know how to leverage them properly and there's a extremely good chance that you will lose. Hardly pay to win.
It's the same with PLEX, it can provide a shortcut to "better" things, but it rarely works out that way for someone who has no idea how to use those "better" things.
As I pointed out to you earlier, character skills are not the same as player skills, the former let you sit in the ship, the latter are what makes it effective.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5950
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Posted - 2017.02.16 19:58:20 -
[178] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
snipping due to quote limit....
I'll also note that many who make the "pay-to-win" argument also have to confine themselves to a very narrow type of game play, a 1 v. 1 for example. However, there is nothing about EVE that limits one to just that setting. Yes, an alpha clone will be at a disadvantage based on SP all other factors held constant. That last phrase, 'all other factors held constant', is a very strong assumption though.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics CODE.
1114
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Posted - 2017.02.16 20:26:03 -
[179] - Quote
tar1901 wrote:Nat Silverguard wrote:
if you don't like EvE, why are you still here?
go away please!
good question. Edit: Star citizen isn't released yet bye
So, I take it you won't be going anywhere for a while...
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
5555
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Posted - 2017.02.17 08:03:47 -
[180] - Quote
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:Doctor Mabuse wrote: I've got to disagree. At the moment if you grind for a week, missioning to buy that shiny ship, you really, really don't want to lose it in combat, as it represents a week of mundane activity. This brings a sense of loss and an adrenaline rush that no other game's PVP has.
For me it's the polar opposite. I've done so much of these mundane activities the last 5 years, I can't bring myself to do these chores anymore. Doctor Mabuse wrote: If CCP suddenly make missions the greatest thing you can do with a mouse, keyboard and screen, losing that ship has no meaning, because 'Yay! Another weeks missioning!'
I would not mind having to do something fun in order to do something fun as my gameplay loop. The idea of having to slog through boring PVE content for enough space coins to do something enjoyable doesn't strike me as smart design at all. I would like to PVP more, but thinking about the steps involved to replace whatever I'm about to lose makes me not want to lose it. It makes me do some more PVE, I then decide that it takes waaaaay too long to reach my intended goal, and fire up the Xbox for some instant gratification. I get that this game isn't about instant gratification. Just saying that in the end, it motivates me to seek instant gratification elsewhere instead of hatching colvulted plans to make ISK or grinding away at some threadmill. My eve carreer is ending not with a bang, but with a sigh. I guess it's inevitable but less boring PVE = more longlevity. Even if that longlevity isn't forever.
At the lowest design level, playing a game must feel better than not playing it. PvE in EVE is not even supposed to do that, rather it's a toll you pay for a ticket to a chance of having some fun with PvP. |
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