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NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.12.25 21:32:58 -
[1] - Quote
Alphas can utilize top end industrials like Mammoth to bot level 4 courier missions.
I suggest restricting them to the first tiers of industrial ships (IE: wreath) or remove their ability to utilize them altogether.
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
816
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Posted - 2016.12.25 21:44:06 -
[2] - Quote
The forum you're looking for is here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=270
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
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Salvos Rhoska
1774
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Posted - 2016.12.27 10:13:58 -
[3] - Quote
Hmmm...
I hadnt realizedf how capable hauler alphas can be with the T1 industrials.
Much less that they can farm LP like this.
PvE v PvP
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Old School Exploration
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CODE Special Agent
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Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
503
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Posted - 2016.12.28 17:45:01 -
[4] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Hmmm...
I hadnt realizedf how capable hauler alphas can be with the T1 industrials.
Much less that they can farm LP like this.
Well, you just don't have the knowledge required. I bet you didn't even know T1 industrials like the Mammoth are the "top end" of industrial ships in EVE.
But don't worry, I didn't know either! I guess I have to sell my transportships now and replace them with Mammoths.
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NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2016.12.29 00:29:54 -
[5] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Hmmm...
I hadnt realizedf how capable hauler alphas can be with the T1 industrials.
Much less that they can farm LP like this. Well, you just don't have the knowledge required. I bet you didn't even know T1 industrials like the Mammoth are the "top end" of industrial ships in EVE. But don't worry, I didn't know either! I guess I have to sell my transportships now and replace them with Mammoths.
Ah, yes, I should have included the word "standard" next to the words "top end" so that dumb kids like you wouldn't be confused. |
Takh Meir'noen
24th Imperial Recon
1
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Posted - 2016.12.29 05:32:54 -
[6] - Quote
While grinding standing on my hauler alt I ran L4 missions with a Badger that aligned in 4s and warped @ 7 AU/s. An alpha clone could have flown it. I'm not sure what you would restrict them from really, since the tier 1 industrial is really, really good for running L4 distributions. |
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
224
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Posted - 2017.01.02 14:56:46 -
[7] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Hmmm...
I hadnt realizedf how capable hauler alphas can be with the T1 industrials.
Much less that they can farm LP like this.
(Sarcasm)
-Kirst
Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
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Chelian Dendrotoxin
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2017.01.02 17:35:16 -
[8] - Quote
Dear CCP,
Changes to the game model are disrupting my comfortable rut. Have them removed or I may be forced to take my space trucking elsewhere. Also, please provide a contractual guarantee that I will never again be forced to learn a new method in this game, it offends my sensibilities.
Sincerely, Chelian Dendrotoxin |
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2388
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Posted - 2017.01.02 20:01:21 -
[9] - Quote
The issue here is that it is one of those things that can be botted or done in mass by farmers. years ago there were 100s of industrial going back and forth through some lowsec system you could go down there and shoot t1 industrial ships till you got bored and they just kept trucking. Adapting to changes is one thing, adapting to botting is another. That said I have no idea what their impact at this point is.
I know there are some restrictions on alphas but I don't know what holes have been discovered.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels
59
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Posted - 2017.01.03 09:54:14 -
[10] - Quote
Proof of bots? |
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Sequester Risalo
Semiki Minerals and Missiles Company Ltd.
267
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Posted - 2017.01.03 14:10:32 -
[11] - Quote
I think there is an organisation which claims to fight bot aspirant behaviour. If this is really turning into a problem, I'm sure this organisation will rise and shine. Otherwise you can always report bots.
I don't think the LP markets have been too distorted by these bots yet. |
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2017.01.04 20:01:51 -
[12] - Quote
Sequester Risalo wrote:I think there is an organisation which claims to fight bot aspirant behaviour. If this is really turning into a problem, I'm sure this organisation will rise and shine. Otherwise you can always report bots.
I don't think the LP markets have been too distorted by these bots yet.
yea with the dumbshits at CCP its never a problem untill half the population complains, and most are too stupid to care. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
2807
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Posted - 2017.01.05 15:51:45 -
[13] - Quote
If CCP were to address the issue that the OP has raised, the solution would be easy enough: raise the skill requirement on the Mammoth, Bestower, Tayara, and Itty V to racial industrial II. Alphas are limited to racial industrial I. I'd include the specialist haulers for the sake of completeness, which would leave Alphas with only the basic, T1, fast haulers.
Having said that...is this really an issue that CCP needs to address? Is this botting, creative farming, or just emergent gameplay? CCP is obviously opposed to botting, and they've taken some steps in the past to reign in creative farming (i.e. FW missions in SBs). I say give this a bit more time to see how it plays out before jumping to any conclusions.
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:like how griefers can fly into your high sec mission and blow up you mission objectives and leave you without any realistic recourse. It's not griefing unless CCP says it is.
And they haven't.
Apparently they feel that the "Some men just want to watch the world burn." style of gameplay is valid.
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
I predicted FAUXs
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Chelian Dendrotoxin
Mamaroneck Trading Company
1
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Posted - 2017.01.05 16:55:46 -
[14] - Quote
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Sequester Risalo wrote:I think there is an organisation which claims to fight bot aspirant behaviour. If this is really turning into a problem, I'm sure this organisation will rise and shine. Otherwise you can always report bots.
I don't think the LP markets have been too distorted by these bots yet. yea, with the clueless folks at CCP its never a problem until a significant portion of population complains, and most are too stupid to care about anything that doesn't effect them directly. like how griefers can fly into your high sec mission and blow up you mission objectives and leave you without any realistic recourse. Its total bullshit but it doesn't happen often enough for them to bother with.
Except that the recourse is freely available to you, and that is to shoot them in their faces, war dec them, hire mercs, or even ask to join them and take out your rage on others. Yay options! |
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
817
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Posted - 2017.01.05 17:17:15 -
[15] - Quote
Since you can't run an alpha account on the same machine as another alpha or even omega account, you'd have to explain to me how you feel this is botting? Circumventing that limitation is indeed against the EULA and as such will result in bans but just running a single alpha account and running distribution missions (that's kinda bleh in terms of rewards to begin with) doesn't really seem like botting.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2409
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Posted - 2017.01.05 18:43:30 -
[16] - Quote
insert standard "if op has evidence of botting take it to ccp and not the forums" disclaimer.
considering botting is already breaking the EULA I assume they would have no problems using software, if it exists, to bypass that one account alpha restriction. There is also the possibility they run the bot while they are not at the PC. And then play the game normally on a different character/account. My earlier post was mostly there to establish precedent of farmers using courier missions. I have no idea if that is farmers or bots controlling the accounts though, I'm assuming it wouldn't be super hard to bot though.
if it is alpha players at the keyboard running lv4 courier missions well then so what, valid game play and all. Probably very little impact on the LP market overall.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Muffinmixer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1
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Posted - 2017.01.06 20:19:52 -
[17] - Quote
Have you even looked at L4 distribution missions? They only make around 1000 LP in highsec with Alpha social skills. No salvage or loot or bounties with that.
That's nothing. |
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2017.01.08 14:41:24 -
[18] - Quote
Muffinmixer wrote:Have you even looked at L4 distribution missions? They only make around 1000 LP in highsec with Alpha social skills. No salvage or loot or bounties with that.
That's nothing.
thats 1000 LP with zero effort, every ~5 minutes.
and of course it has to become a enormous problem before the incompetents at CCP will do anything about it. |
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
819
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Posted - 2017.01.08 16:38:34 -
[19] - Quote
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Muffinmixer wrote:Have you even looked at L4 distribution missions? They only make around 1000 LP in highsec with Alpha social skills. No salvage or loot or bounties with that.
That's nothing. thats 1000 LP with zero effort, every ~5 minutes. and of course it has to become a enormous problem before the incompetents at CCP will do anything about it. I can make 14k LP and +- 10mill in 5min for very little effort. End of the day this isn't something that can be done en mass without circumventing the EULA and if they are then that means you have a valid complaint and should take your evidence to CCP that people are running multiple alpha clients at the same time.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
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Hipqo
Tyde8
158
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Posted - 2017.01.08 19:42:11 -
[20] - Quote
"Top end" lol.....
Unless alpha's can make a significant impact on LP generated, its not gonna be a problem for the game or your self. Fly along or better yet, start to shoot T1 indy ships in highsec and gather tears!
A life is best lived, to not step into your grave in a well preserved body. Instead, to slide in side ways, all battered and bruised, screamming, "Holy SH**! What a ride!"
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Sasha Nemtsov
New Order Logistics CODE.
300
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Posted - 2017.01.08 20:09:13 -
[21] - Quote
Sequester Risalo wrote:I think there is an organisation which claims to fight bot aspirant behaviour. If this is really turning into a problem, I'm sure this organisation will rise and shine. Otherwise you can always report bots.
I don't think the LP markets have been too distorted by these bots yet.
Ahem. Yes, the New Order of Highsec aims to rid the region of bots and all bot-aspirant behaviour. Highsec, that is.
Alas, botting in Lowsec isn't covered by our Code, but if I may just offer a suggestion to the OP; simply make your case, with as much detail as possible, and present it to CCP in the appropriate feedback thread.
I came here expecting to read something about a damsel, but had my attention hijacked by a headline possibly promising useful information about cheap vinyl Beatles covers...
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NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2017.01.09 14:04:14 -
[22] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Muffinmixer wrote:Have you even looked at L4 distribution missions? They only make around 1000 LP in highsec with Alpha social skills. No salvage or loot or bounties with that.
That's nothing. thats 1000 LP with zero effort, every ~5 minutes. and of course it has to become a enormous problem before the incompetents at CCP will do anything about it. I can make 14k LP and +- 10mill in 5min for very little effort. End of the day this isn't something that can be done en mass without circumventing the EULA and if they are then that means you have a valid complaint and should take your evidence to CCP that people are running multiple alpha clients at the same time.
LOL. What a ridiculous moron you must be to make such a comparison.
Running a bot takes zero effort other than setting up the bot initially. You can leave it on all day and night.
Nobody is going to bother to go to the trouble of reporting every hauler they see on the possibility they might be using a bot . This isn't something the players should have to be responsible for cleaning up. The solutions are simple but CCP are just too unwilling and incompetent to figure it out.
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
821
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Posted - 2017.01.09 19:20:26 -
[23] - Quote
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Muffinmixer wrote:Have you even looked at L4 distribution missions? They only make around 1000 LP in highsec with Alpha social skills. No salvage or loot or bounties with that.
That's nothing. thats 1000 LP with zero effort, every ~5 minutes. and of course it has to become a enormous problem before the incompetents at CCP will do anything about it. I can make 14k LP and +- 10mill in 5min for very little effort. End of the day this isn't something that can be done en mass without circumventing the EULA and if they are then that means you have a valid complaint and should take your evidence to CCP that people are running multiple alpha clients at the same time. LOL. What a ridiculous moron you must be to make such a comparison. Running a bot takes zero effort other than setting up the bot initially. You can leave it on all day and night. Nobody is going to bother to go to the trouble of reporting every hauler they see on the possibility they might be using a bot . This isn't something the players should have to be responsible for cleaning up. The solutions are simple but CCP are just too unwilling and incompetent to figure it out. So.. you don't actually have any proof is what I'm reading?
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
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Muffinmixer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2017.01.09 20:04:48 -
[24] - Quote
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Muffinmixer wrote:Have you even looked at L4 distribution missions? They only make around 1000 LP in highsec with Alpha social skills. No salvage or loot or bounties with that.
That's nothing. thats 1000 LP with zero effort, every ~5 minutes. and of course it has to become a enormous problem before the incompetents at CCP will do anything about it. I can make 14k LP and +- 10mill in 5min for very little effort. End of the day this isn't something that can be done en mass without circumventing the EULA and if they are then that means you have a valid complaint and should take your evidence to CCP that people are running multiple alpha clients at the same time. LOL. What a ridiculous moron you must be to make such a comparison. Running a bot takes zero effort other than setting up the bot initially. You can leave it on all day and night. Nobody is going to bother to go to the trouble of reporting every hauler they see on the possibility they might be using a bot . This isn't something the players should have to be responsible for cleaning up. The solutions are simple but CCP are just too unwilling and incompetent to figure it out.
Maybe because Players do not have the tools to recognize botters all that readily? Like, yourself, for example?
Still waiting for some proof here.
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NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2017.01.14 00:34:44 -
[25] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Muffinmixer wrote:Have you even looked at L4 distribution missions? They only make around 1000 LP in highsec with Alpha social skills. No salvage or loot or bounties with that.
That's nothing. thats 1000 LP with zero effort, every ~5 minutes. and of course it has to become a enormous problem before the incompetents at CCP will do anything about it. I can make 14k LP and +- 10mill in 5min for very little effort. End of the day this isn't something that can be done en mass without circumventing the EULA and if they are then that means you have a valid complaint and should take your evidence to CCP that people are running multiple alpha clients at the same time. LOL. What a ridiculous moron you must be to make such a comparison. Running a bot takes zero effort other than setting up the bot initially. You can leave it on all day and night. Nobody is going to bother to go to the trouble of reporting every hauler they see on the possibility they might be using a bot . This isn't something the players should have to be responsible for cleaning up. The solutions are simple but CCP are just too unwilling and incompetent to figure it out. So.. you don't actually have any proof is what I'm reading?
are you really so stupid that you need to be provided evidence of what should be common sense?
botting courier missions is very likely the most isk an alpha can make per hour while afk. |
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
824
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Posted - 2017.01.14 03:37:22 -
[26] - Quote
So you don't have any proof? Just want to make sure I understand correctly.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
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NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2017.01.14 04:53:57 -
[27] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:So you don't have any proof? Just want to make sure I understand correctly.
Sure I do. Just read the previous posts you made.
You actually made a comparison between what you can potentially make while actively playing vs botting, demonstrating that failed to even understand the point of this thread.
This is proof that you are a very stupid person who lacks common sense.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5156
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Posted - 2017.01.14 07:13:59 -
[28] - Quote
So can I give up blitzing Burners and missions for this new income stream?
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
824
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Posted - 2017.01.14 09:05:37 -
[29] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:So can I give up blitzing Burners and missions for this new income stream? Sound like it. Will have to retire my guide it seems. Ah well it was good while it lasted.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
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Abyss Azizora
DODGING
191
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Posted - 2017.01.14 11:03:12 -
[30] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Since you can't run an alpha account on the same machine as another alpha or even omega account, you'd have to explain to me how you feel this is botting? Circumventing that limitation is indeed against the EULA and as such will result in bans but just running a single alpha account and running distribution missions (that's kinda bleh in terms of rewards to begin with) doesn't really seem like botting.
*cough* Virtual Machines *cough* Sandboxed clients *cough* Multiple PC's *cough*
I could run around 25-30 alpha accounts at once if I really wanted to. Other people who actually WANT to do this can do even more. Also I don;t think bottling means what you think it means. |
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5156
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Posted - 2017.01.14 11:50:15 -
[31] - Quote
Abyss Azizora wrote:*cough* Virtual Machines *cough* Sandboxed clients *cough* Multiple PC's *cough*
I could run around 25-30 alpha accounts at once if I really wanted to. Other people who actually WANT to do this can do even more. Also I don;t think bottling means what you think it means. And here I always thought FW largely influenced LP conversion rates...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Chelian Dendrotoxin
Mamaroneck Trading Company
8
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Posted - 2017.01.14 14:40:37 -
[32] - Quote
So we're actually still complaining about this? This is lamer than 'don't let them gank me in HS' AND 'make all of HS like lowesec' combined. |
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2017.01.14 14:50:52 -
[33] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:So can I give up blitzing Burners and missions for this new income stream? Sound like it. Will have to retire my guide it seems. Ah well it was good while it lasted.
We are talking about botting, morons. Comparing it to what you can make actively playing the game is a nonsensical comparison.
You should really feel embarrassed for displaying such blatant stupidity.
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
824
|
Posted - 2017.01.14 14:52:53 -
[34] - Quote
Abyss Azizora wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Since you can't run an alpha account on the same machine as another alpha or even omega account, you'd have to explain to me how you feel this is botting? Circumventing that limitation is indeed against the EULA and as such will result in bans but just running a single alpha account and running distribution missions (that's kinda bleh in terms of rewards to begin with) doesn't really seem like botting. *cough* Virtual Machines *cough* Sandboxed clients *cough* Multiple PC's *cough* I could run around 25-30 alpha accounts at once if I really wanted to. Other people who actually WANT to do this can do even more. Also I don;t think bottling means what you think it means. Well yea you could but how long till they IP ban you since you're straight up breaking the EULA?
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
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NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2017.01.14 14:56:48 -
[35] - Quote
Abyss Azizora wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Since you can't run an alpha account on the same machine as another alpha or even omega account, you'd have to explain to me how you feel this is botting? Circumventing that limitation is indeed against the EULA and as such will result in bans but just running a single alpha account and running distribution missions (that's kinda bleh in terms of rewards to begin with) doesn't really seem like botting. *cough* Virtual Machines *cough* Sandboxed clients *cough* Multiple PC's *cough* I could run around 25-30 alpha accounts at once if I really wanted to. Other people who actually WANT to do this can do even more. Also I don;t think bottling means what you think it means.
^ This.
Abyss gets it. |
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
824
|
Posted - 2017.01.14 14:58:36 -
[36] - Quote
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Abyss Azizora wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Since you can't run an alpha account on the same machine as another alpha or even omega account, you'd have to explain to me how you feel this is botting? Circumventing that limitation is indeed against the EULA and as such will result in bans but just running a single alpha account and running distribution missions (that's kinda bleh in terms of rewards to begin with) doesn't really seem like botting. *cough* Virtual Machines *cough* Sandboxed clients *cough* Multiple PC's *cough* I could run around 25-30 alpha accounts at once if I really wanted to. Other people who actually WANT to do this can do even more. Also I don;t think bottling means what you think it means. ^ This. Abyss gets it. You should totally do this and let us know how it goes, I bet you can make a killing! You should even put together a guide for us :)
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
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NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2017.01.14 15:17:51 -
[37] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Abyss Azizora wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Since you can't run an alpha account on the same machine as another alpha or even omega account, you'd have to explain to me how you feel this is botting? Circumventing that limitation is indeed against the EULA and as such will result in bans but just running a single alpha account and running distribution missions (that's kinda bleh in terms of rewards to begin with) doesn't really seem like botting. *cough* Virtual Machines *cough* Sandboxed clients *cough* Multiple PC's *cough* I could run around 25-30 alpha accounts at once if I really wanted to. Other people who actually WANT to do this can do even more. Also I don;t think bottling means what you think it means. ^ This. Abyss gets it. You should totally do this and let us know how it goes, I bet you can make a killing! You should even put together a guide for us :)
The reason I created this thread was because I don't want people to be able to do this.
Pretty funny how incredibly dumb you are.
Haven't you embarrassed yourself enough? |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5157
|
Posted - 2017.01.14 15:21:27 -
[38] - Quote
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:The reason I created this thread was because I don't want people to be able to do this. Pretty sure they're not, so mission accomplished!
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
825
|
Posted - 2017.01.14 15:49:10 -
[39] - Quote
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:The reason I created this thread was because I don't want people to be able to do this. Pretty funny how incredibly dumb you are. Haven't you embarrassed yourself enough? Ah, so it's not possible then, good stuff.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
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NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2017.01.14 16:03:09 -
[40] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:The reason I created this thread was because I don't want people to be able to do this. Pretty funny how incredibly dumb you are. Haven't you embarrassed yourself enough? Ah, so it's not possible then, good stuff.
http://www.zenzoneforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16643&d=1340493214
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
825
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Posted - 2017.01.14 16:12:10 -
[41] - Quote
I think the irony of how accurately that applies here will fortunately not be lost on any of us, thank you for dredging that up.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
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NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2017.01.14 16:19:50 -
[42] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:I think the irony of how accurately that applies here will fortunately not be lost on any of us, thank you for dredging that up.
Clowns like you who go around saying nonsensical crap in order to get a reaction out of people are the lowest level of troll. Mommy and daddy really should have given you more attention.
Truth hurt?
Deal with it. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5994
|
Posted - 2017.01.14 16:41:40 -
[43] - Quote
Time for a lock on this one...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
33
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Posted - 2017.03.10 22:43:33 -
[44] - Quote
The LP markets I have been in have flooded with items.
I don't have the data to prove this is the cause but its pretty stupid that Alphas efficiently bot level 4 missions regardless. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5995
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Posted - 2017.03.10 23:39:53 -
[45] - Quote
It would have to be a lot of Alphas botting in groups since they're not easy to complete in a Gnosis.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
59922
|
Posted - 2017.03.11 03:46:31 -
[46] - Quote
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Alphas can utilize top end industrials like Mammoth to bot level 4 courier missions.
I suggest restricting them to the first tiers of industrial ships (IE: wreath) or remove their ability to utilize them for level 4 courier missions altogether. First of all, I don't believe there's actually a problem of Alpha 'Bot' Clones in-game.
Secondly, I highly doubt that a large majority of Alpha Clones are actually 'Bot' accounts.
Thirdly, if there is indeed Alpha 'Bot' Clones running lv 4 Distribution missions, then it's only a few accounts which wouldn't have any major affect on lowering the value of LP's.
Finally, if you actually do know for a fact there is indeed 'Bot' accounts in-game, then you should report them asap.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Jori McKie
Viziam Amarr Empire
287
|
Posted - 2017.03.11 07:12:14 -
[47] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:The issue here is that it is one of those things that can be botted or done in mass by farmers. years ago there were 100s of industrial going back and forth through some lowsec system you could go down there and shoot t1 industrial ships till you got bored and they just kept trucking. Adapting to changes is one thing, adapting to botting is another. That said I have no idea what their impact at this point is.
I know there are some restrictions on alphas but I don't know what holes have been discovered.
You are old :). I was going to post the same. I can even remember that when you shot enough hauler in the correct timezone the bot owner/s appeared got very angry and tried to kill you ;). He even showed some "force" by using his carrier at the docking, doesn't helped him much though.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."
--áAbrazzar
|
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
6015
|
Posted - 2017.03.12 15:32:53 -
[48] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Finally, if you actually do know for a fact there is indeed 'Bot' accounts in-game, then you should report them asap. I'd rather CODE just killed them...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
|
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
37
|
Posted - 2017.03.12 19:19:02 -
[49] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Alphas can utilize top end industrials like Mammoth to bot level 4 courier missions.
I suggest restricting them to the first tiers of industrial ships (IE: wreath) or remove their ability to utilize them for level 4 courier missions altogether. First of all, I don't believe there's actually a problem of Alpha 'Bot' Clones in-game. Secondly, I highly doubt that a large majority of Alpha Clones are actually 'Bot' accounts. Thirdly, if there is indeed Alpha 'Bot' Clones running lv 4 Distribution missions, then it's only a few accounts which wouldn't have any major affect on lowering the value of LP's. Finally, if you actually do know for a fact there is indeed 'Bot' accounts in-game, then you should report them asap. .
And how can I possibly know for a fact? Just because someone isn't answering my pms doesn't prove anything.
Just because you haven't noticed a problem doesn't mean there isn't one. Nomatter how small, botting is against the EULA and the spirit of fairness and it would be so much simpler to restrict alphas from being able to do them efficiently rather than rely on the player reports to clean it up. Even if you report them then what? They get a ban they can just make another alpha account.
Botting level 4 courier missions is the most isk an alpha can make per hour so of course there are people doing it. |
Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels Solitaire.
183
|
Posted - 2017.03.13 23:40:41 -
[50] - Quote
Cliffs for new alpha bretheren looking at forums for the first time:
>3 pages in >op still has no proof >RIP ops credibility in perpetuum >press f to pay respects
All further posts should consist of "f" |
|
Takh Meir'noen
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
23
|
Posted - 2017.03.14 01:48:28 -
[51] - Quote
All the various implants and skillbooks that I buy with LP to liquidate for ISK has gone up in value at least 20% and in some cases 50% over the last month. I'm not suggesting that means there are no bots, but it's informed observation that shows any bots (if it's actually happening) aren't driving the LP market down.
Maybe you're just selling something that is starting to saturate the market. Adapt. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
6060
|
Posted - 2017.03.14 15:23:59 -
[52] - Quote
Faction Warfare 'bots' routinely mangle LP rates.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
|
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
37
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 02:33:30 -
[53] - Quote
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:Cliffs for new alpha bretheren looking at forums for the first time:
>3 pages in >op still has no proof >RIP ops credibility in perpetuum >press f to pay respects
All further posts should consist of "f"
Wow. Only an idiot would need proof of what is common sense. You really doubt that bots exist? |
Drake Aihaken
CODE.d
3
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 03:47:56 -
[54] - Quote
Bots are sometimes hard to detect, easy to report when confirmed and almost impossible to get banned. |
Zanar Skwigelf
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
87
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 13:39:47 -
[55] - Quote
F |
Alasdan Helminthauge
HC - Razorback Roadhouse
45
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 02:37:47 -
[56] - Quote
I don't doubt the existence of bots or somebody training their pet to do these stuff, but as far as I know, the LP value hasn't dropped much after the Ascension. I'd like the op to show some proof of the LP value lowering. Though I would be very glad if CCP changes the distribution missions in a way that the agent gives you something with real isk value and tradable on market to transport, and require a collateral fee to accept the mission (about 100mil would be good for lv4 distribution missions). |
Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
2249
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 12:00:38 -
[57] - Quote
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Wow. Only an idiot would need proof of what is common sense. You really doubt that bots exist? There are players that are capable to set up Bots in EVE and I think I even saw a mining bot when I roamed the drone lands. Or at least it was someone using input automatization, was semi-AFK mining from downtime to downtime and had an excellent timing on his evacuation routines. But there is a difference in doubting there were cargo mission bots and doubting there were bots at all. Quite a generalization you did there.
But I am sure there are no or only a few cargo mission bots. Because I did a lot of cargo missions to raise the standing for 4 alpha accounts, one per race. I checked the LP stores first to get the most ISK out of the grind for standing and I didnGÇÖt see anything that looked like a bot. I hardly saw anyone doing those missions at all. I have a cargo scanner on all my haulers to scan my competitors for the occasional extra stupid gank-worth autopilot and used them while doing the hauling missions too. Most haulers I scanned where doing contracts (you can tell from the wraps), some had regular cargo and only a hand full carried the typical low value high volume mission cargo stuff. I convoed some other mission runners or greeted them in local because I was bored, and they all replied.
I have a question: Why would a player that can set up bots stick to such low income as hauler missions are? From what I saw and read there are mining bots and market bots. Both can easily make a PLEX per month and far more ISK than hauler missions on top. And both are far harder to detect because there are bot-like human traders and there are bot-like human mulitbox miners the real bots can blend into. But I am quite sure there are no players running cargo missions the whole day for month or years. Cargo mission bots would be quite easy to detect because I havenGÇÖt heard about players doing cargo missions to no end. Have you? |
guigui lechat
the no fock given
10
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 12:47:33 -
[58] - Quote
bot for distribution: accept mission, set destination, set destination, undock, warp to, warp , .. dock, get reward, undock. That's NOT difficult to implement, you just need to sniff packets. |
Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
2250
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:28:57 -
[59] - Quote
guigui lechat wrote:bot for distribution: accept mission, set destination, set destination, undock, warp to, warp , .. dock, get reward, undock. That's NOT difficult to implement, you just need to sniff packets.
Sure, but if you can do that, why would you stick to something that gets you only few millions per hour at diminishing returns? And turning the LP into ISK is a lot of hazzle too. Risk vs. reward seems to be a bit off to me. But I will look out for any signs of botting and convo people with mission cargo. |
guigui lechat
the no fock given
10
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 14:30:48 -
[60] - Quote
I'm just saying : making a distribution bot does not require much work and so the ratio LP/h/invested time is interesting, even though you think the sole LP/hour is bad. When you farm, the ratio you consider is your ISK/played_hour ; when you create bot, the ratio is max_bot*ISK/bot_hour/dev_hour, because even if the sole ISK/hour is ten time worse, if you can launch 10 times more bots using it and it requires less dev time it's worth it.
you can easily script clicks on a window, the only issue is to know WHEN and WITCH click to perform - and for that you may need packet sniffing.
I 'm not saying there are bots and I know of them. I'm saying on every game I know of, people made bots (I did on some - but most of the time I only create statistical anilysis tools), and every time there is a tedious activity, bots are welcome. This in no way implies bots are making changes to the market, but if you whole point is "we need proof of bots to listen to you", then you lack a lot of wisedom/knowledge. |
|
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
192
|
Posted - 2017.03.21 14:25:30 -
[61] - Quote
solution: Add level 5 courier missions that require a freighter so you can once again outclass these vagabonds! |
Alasdan Helminthauge
HC - Razorback Roadhouse
53
|
Posted - 2017.03.22 01:19:52 -
[62] - Quote
Henry Plantgenet wrote:solution: Add level 5 courier missions that require a freighter so you can once again outclass these vagabonds!
and they should all be located in low-sec like the lv5 security missions. |
Andrew Indy
Jedran Space Services
229
|
Posted - 2017.03.22 06:43:44 -
[63] - Quote
guigui lechat wrote: "we need proof of bots to listen to you", then you lack a lot of wisedom/knowledge.
But can you really Ask CCP to do something on a random players theory? How many times have people said that the drop rate of X has change because their last X sites drop very little or something along those lines.
The issues I have with the OP is that he keeps on calling people stupid for having an opinion other than his and its not so much that he can't provide proof of bots but that he has no proof of any kind. Maybe check all LP items and look at their history since ascension, if the vast majority of items (ones farm able in HS) have come down a lot since then, then maybe he is right.
|
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
864
|
Posted - 2017.03.22 06:52:10 -
[64] - Quote
guigui lechat wrote:I'm just saying : making a distribution bot does not require much work and so the ratio LP/h/invested time is interesting, even though you think the sole LP/hour is bad. When you farm, the ratio you consider is your ISK/played_hour ; when you create bot, the ratio is max_bot*ISK/bot_hour/dev_hour, because even if the sole ISK/hour is ten time worse, if you can launch 10 times more bots using it and it requires less dev time it's worth it.
you can easily script clicks on a window, the only issue is to know WHEN and WITCH click to perform - and for that you may need packet sniffing.
So this is a very valid concern IF we knew for a fact CCP wasn't blocking multiple alpha log ins from the same machine/IP. However as you can see by a simple and quick test, CCP does indeed block the ability to log in multiple alpha accounts or even a single alpha account if you have an Omega account running.
So to accomplish this 'simple' act of launching 10 alpha bots from the same location you will need a separate VPN for each one or a way to trick the client/CCP into thinking each log in is happening from a different IP and/or machine if they check the MAC address as well. Now where logging in multiple omega accounts is supported (and probably encouraged to be honest), it is actively blocked for alpha account so circumventing that would be a lot more complex and a much more direct violation of the EULA than the sometimes murky area of 'bots/macros/iskboxer' and as such probably much better policed.
So yea, I'm not saying it ain't happening, I'm saying until I see proof I don't see how it'd be feasible in the least. This thread is 3 months old and no proof.
I'm just saying.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
|
guigui lechat
the no fock given
10
|
Posted - 2017.03.22 11:46:27 -
[65] - Quote
Andrew Indy wrote:guigui lechat wrote: "we need proof of bots to listen to you", then you lack a lot of wisedom/knowledge.
But can you really Ask CCP to do something on a random players theory? How many times have people said that the drop rate of X has change because their last X sites drop very little or something along those lines. The issues I have with the OP is that he keeps on calling people stupid for having an opinion other than his and its not so much that he can't provide proof of bots but that he has no proof of any kind. Maybe check all LP items and look at their history since ascension, if the vast majority of items (ones farm able in HS) have come down a lot since then, then maybe he is right.
I'm not asking CCP anything, just stating that bots are a thing, and there are good reasons to make distribution bots. Your issues with the OP are not my concern. However I totally understand them.
Anize Oramara wrote: So this is a very valid concern IF we knew for a fact CCP wasn't blocking multiple alpha log ins from the same machine/IP. However as you can see by a simple and quick test, CCP does indeed block the ability to log in multiple alpha accounts or even a single alpha account if you have an Omega account running.
AFAIK https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/5fldj4/is_it_allowed_to_skillup_an_alpha_on_separate/ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6707136 https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/213811425-Alpha-Clones-and-Omega-Clone-lapsing-Quick-Facts
people are able to connect the same IP. So you just need ONE VPN (so your main doesn't get banned too when the banhammer falls) |
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
41
|
Posted - 2017.03.23 13:43:09 -
[66] - Quote
Andrew Indy wrote:guigui lechat wrote: "we need proof of bots to listen to you", then you lack a lot of wisedom/knowledge.
But can you really Ask CCP to do something on a random players theory? How many times have people said that the drop rate of X has change because their last X sites drop very little or something along those lines. The issues I have with the OP is that he keeps on calling people stupid for having an opinion other than his and its not so much that he can't provide proof of bots but that he has no proof of any kind. Maybe check all LP items and look at their history since ascension, if the vast majority of items (ones farm able in HS) have come down a lot since then, then maybe he is right.
its not a random player theory. It is common sense. I don't need to provide proof that bots exist. It is common sense that people will do this. The better question to ask is, why not prevent alphas from being able to bot level 4 missions? Its not that people have a different opinion, it is that they are actually stupid. You demand proof of things that are common sense and extremely likely.
If i was more ambitous about this game, I would definately be doing this. . Can you possibly think of something more profitable or easier bot?
|
Alasdan Helminthauge
HC - Razorback Roadhouse
55
|
Posted - 2017.03.23 14:09:17 -
[67] - Quote
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Can you possibly think of something more profitable or easier bot that involves zero risk?
The Chinese use bots to rat in null-sec on their server, making some 100mil/(hr*account). It's not involving zero risk, but since it's pretty popular there, I guess the risk is worth it. (The Chinese proxy company never ban people from using bots. They almost have bots for everything, even pvp.) |
Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
2302
|
Posted - 2017.03.23 14:12:41 -
[68] - Quote
Feasible? Probably yes. Is it happening? Only in small scale or those bots are really good at hiding. I guess other methods are even more feasible. Is it a problem CCP should address? In my opinion mining and trading bots are by far the bigger problem and should be addressed first. One problem with missions bots of any kind is that you have to operate them in very populated systems. While there are some null systems with only a few jumps per day or even week. |
William Ormono
Regional Rat Control Ltd.
4
|
Posted - 2017.03.23 15:31:47 -
[69] - Quote
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote: The problem is that you are an utter moron.
Some food for thought. If your intentions are to have a fruitful discussion with other people, comments like these can be very counter productive. In my experience, personal attacks don't strengthen a person's argument, but instead can take away from their credibility.
I'm not saying you're wrong (in fact, I think you are onto something), but your phrasing might have stolen some focus from the subject matter. Lots of people seem to think you're post is about whether bots do/don't exists (or how to eliminate them) instead of a conversation about limiting Alpha clone abilities to make botting less profitable for them.
Just my two cents. Sorry for pushing my views on you. |
Andrew Indy
Jedran Space Services
233
|
Posted - 2017.03.24 08:23:20 -
[70] - Quote
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:
its not a random player theory. It is common sense. I don't need to provide proof that bots exist. It is common sense that people will do this. The better question to ask is, why not prevent alphas from being able to bot level 4 missions? Its not that people have a different opinion, it is that they are actually stupid. You demand proof of things that are common sense and extremely likely. And only CCP has the data that would provide concrete evidence.
Market data is freely available, if its a huge problem the outcome should be clearly visible , right? If there is almost no change then why bother doing anything. Better off using Dev time on something that has a measurable effect.
People thought that the world being flat was common sense. Proof of some sort is always preferred, direct or indirect.
For example I have picked a few Caldari Navy items (Caldari is near Jita, lots of agents ect) that I feel will have a reasonable turnover and looked at their pricing over the past 180 days. 1 item has come down (almost at the same time as 15/11/16) but otherwise there has been little change.
market data
Not hard to do and it will lend a lot more credibility to your augment (assuming the data supports you) otherwise you just sound like so fake new reporter or a snake oil sales man. |
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
868
|
Posted - 2017.03.24 09:59:25 -
[71] - Quote
Ran into an interesting quote yesterday.
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
Apparently an English translation of a Latin proverb if Wikipedia is to be believed.
Still we do know that the Eve Client blocks the ability to log in multiple accounts if one of them is an alpha and we do know that CCP can detect multiple log ins on the same Machine ID and IP but that they do allow multiple log ins from the same IP within reason. They also have more or less relative omniscient knowledge of what goes on in their game judging by the financial data they post every month. I mean they're able to tell you down to the last isk how much is made and spent through LP for example.
To be fair it's all circumstantial evidence but it's better than what the op's been able to come up with. I'll give him props for sheer endurance although necroing a couple month old thread is a little desperate. Seems weird to be putting all this energy into it. But I won't judge people's hobbies, have a few weird ones myself
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
4060
|
Posted - 2017.03.24 10:40:51 -
[72] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Since you can't run an alpha account on the same machine as another alpha or even omega account, you'd have to explain to me how you feel this is botting? Circumventing that limitation is indeed against the EULA and as such will result in bans but just running a single alpha account and running distribution missions (that's kinda bleh in terms of rewards to begin with) doesn't really seem like botting.
maybe....switch bot on, go to work, come home, switch bot off and cash in lp and send to main, profit?
Alliance Logo Design Service
--
Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel
--
"Okay. So that was a pile of word salad..." - Bjorn Tyrson
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
868
|
Posted - 2017.03.24 11:12:33 -
[73] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Since you can't run an alpha account on the same machine as another alpha or even omega account, you'd have to explain to me how you feel this is botting? Circumventing that limitation is indeed against the EULA and as such will result in bans but just running a single alpha account and running distribution missions (that's kinda bleh in terms of rewards to begin with) doesn't really seem like botting. maybe....switch bot on, go to work, come home, switch bot off and cash in lp and send to main, profit?
Yea I mean CCP won't be able to pick up on it being a bot at all.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
4060
|
Posted - 2017.03.24 11:17:12 -
[74] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Since you can't run an alpha account on the same machine as another alpha or even omega account, you'd have to explain to me how you feel this is botting? Circumventing that limitation is indeed against the EULA and as such will result in bans but just running a single alpha account and running distribution missions (that's kinda bleh in terms of rewards to begin with) doesn't really seem like botting. maybe....switch bot on, go to work, come home, switch bot off and cash in lp and send to main, profit? Yea I mean CCP won't be able to pick up on it being a bot at all.
well if bots are an issue then clearly not
edit: also
Anize Oramara wrote:"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
thats amazing
Alliance Logo Design Service
--
Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel
--
"Okay. So that was a pile of word salad..." - Bjorn Tyrson
|
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
868
|
Posted - 2017.03.24 12:43:32 -
[75] - Quote
Quote:well if bots are an issue then clearly not
I mean, are they?
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
|
guigui lechat
the no fock given
15
|
Posted - 2017.03.26 21:10:09 -
[76] - Quote
You're making a circular logic.
Many things cannot be proven false or true, ESPECIALLY in mathematics which people consider to be the most logic science. So your sentence about what can be asserted without proof is false ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems ).
I don't think the alpha bots are a problem at the moment, it does not mean I could learn from his point. |
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
871
|
Posted - 2017.03.27 07:40:20 -
[77] - Quote
guigui lechat wrote:You're making a circular logic. Many things cannot be proven false or true, ESPECIALLY in mathematics which people consider to be the most logic science. So your sentence about what can be asserted without proof is false ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems ). I don't think the alpha bots are a problem at the moment, it does not mean I could learn from his point. Oh I agree, it's definitely not a catch all statement. Particularly in the sciences and maths when it comes to theorems and the like. Then again they do strive to find and present proofs of thier theorems or in some way show that what they think is true, is actually true.
But in an online space pixel game at least some kind of indication that a)There is a bot problem b)CCP is unaware of it/not doing anything about it c)How to get past the more than one alpha per PC problem d)any change in the market isn't a result of burners, incursions, or FW is needed to take an accusation of this kind seriously.
To be clear the only thing that's needed is some kind of proof that there is a problem. That's what's needed to take this to CCP and have them seriously look at it. But all we get when we ask for proof is name calling and personal attacks. Still, it's amusing to watch the flailing.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
|
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
41
|
Posted - 2017.03.29 15:05:54 -
[78] - Quote
William Ormono wrote:NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote: The problem is that you are an utter moron.
Some food for thought. If your intentions are to have a fruitful discussion with other people, comments like these can be very counter productive. In my experience, personal attacks don't strengthen a person's argument, but instead can take away from their credibility. I'm not saying you're wrong (in fact, I think you are onto something), but your phrasing might have stolen some focus from the subject matter. Lots of people seem to think you're post is about whether bots do/don't exists (or how to eliminate them) instead of a conversation about limiting Alpha clone abilities to make botting less profitable for them. Just my two cents. Sorry for pushing my views on you.
Thanks for the advise. I don't think it weakens my argument at all. But its true that it probably influences the willingness of irrationals to understand this subject. Its fine by me that they ask for proof that the sky is blue or want to throw up silly strawmen to try to "win" in some way, its just means more bumps to me.
The smart people get it, and that is all that matters to me.
Anize Oramara wrote:. Still, it's amusing to watch the flailing.
You must mean yourself when you ask for evidence of what could easily be considered to be common sense.
Of course bots exist. Whether you personally consider that a problem or not is irrelevant. It is obviously unfair for someone who is grinding LP legit, isn't it? Why should that be allowed?
Try using common sense. Is there anything so risk-free and simple that an Alpha could bot that would earn them as much isk as level 4 courier missions?
unfortunately my experience with CCP is that things don't seem to be a considered a problem worth dealing with until they effect a large amount of people. |
guigui lechat
the no fock given
19
|
Posted - 2017.03.29 15:49:07 -
[79] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:But all we get when we ask for proof is name calling and personal attacks. Still, it's amusing to watch the flailing.
That
Owen Levanth wrote:Well, you just don't have the knowledge required. I bet you didn't even know T1 industrials like the Mammoth are the "top end" of industrial ships in EVE. But don't worry, I didn't know either! I guess I have to sell my transportships now and replace them with Mammoths. is not what I call asking for proof.
Sure you made points. But other people behave like spoiled children and thougth that making rude sarcasm was the most clever way to discuss with someone they don't agree with. I totally understand that OP is calling you names, when you also use sarcasm - though I do not agree with this. |
Jacques d'Orleans
3044
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 01:59:42 -
[80] - Quote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." is from Christopher Hitchens and he was not discussing mathematics, he was discussing religion, which is not mathematical, logical or evidenced.
Breakfast is the most important drink of the day.
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guigui lechat
the no fock given
23
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 03:06:32 -
[81] - Quote
I always knew that Eve Online has nothing to do with mathematical, logical or evidenced !! #CCP |
Jacques d'Orleans
3044
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 08:35:19 -
[82] - Quote
guigui lechat wrote:I always knew that Eve Online has nothing to do with mathematical, logical or evidenced !! #CCP
Having read the moronic drivel of the OP, you're dam right, especially with the logical or evidenced part.
Breakfast is the most important drink of the day.
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NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 14:57:49 -
[83] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:
Having read the moronic drivel of the OP, you're dam right, especially with the logical or evidenced part.
What is it exactly that you are too stupid to understand? The intelligent people in this thread seem to have no issue understanding the problem as explained. Is common sense really such a challenge for you?
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, dumbass. It is logical, and practically common sense that botting level 4 couerier missions is worthwhile
Why would anyone need to provide proof that that the sky is blue? Open your eyes.
You must be quite the idiot if you expect anyone to take your baseless criticism seriously in light of all this. |
guigui lechat
the no fock given
23
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 15:11:06 -
[84] - Quote
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote:guigui lechat wrote:I always knew that Eve Online has nothing to do with mathematical, logical or evidenced !! #CCP Having read the moronic drivel of the OP, you're dam right, especially with the logical or evidenced part. You clowns really didn't think to say what it is you are even on about? What is it exactly that you are too stupid to understand? The intelligent people in this thread seem to have no issue understanding the problem as explained. Evidence? Mathematics? LOL! Is common sense really such a challenge for you? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, dumbass, and it is practically common sense that botting level 4 couerier missions is worthwhile You must be quite the idiot if you expect anyone to take your baseless criticism seriously in light of all this. please stop the insults. This is boring and makes your argument unreadable. |
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 15:13:08 -
[85] - Quote
guigui lechat wrote:NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote:guigui lechat wrote:I always knew that Eve Online has nothing to do with mathematical, logical or evidenced !! #CCP Having read the moronic drivel of the OP, you're dam right, especially with the logical or evidenced part. You clowns really didn't think to say what it is you are even on about? What is it exactly that you are too stupid to understand? The intelligent people in this thread seem to have no issue understanding the problem as explained. Evidence? Mathematics? LOL! Is common sense really such a challenge for you? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, dumbass, and it is practically common sense that botting level 4 couerier missions is worthwhile You must be quite the idiot if you expect anyone to take your baseless criticism seriously in light of all this. please stop the insults. This is boring and makes your argument unreadable.
I edited it down a bit. Didn't mean to include you. |
Jacques d'Orleans
3044
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 15:19:32 -
[86] - Quote
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote:
Having read the moronic drivel of the OP, you're dam right, especially with the logical or evidenced part.
What is it exactly that you are too stupid to understand? The intelligent people in this thread seem to have no issue understanding the problem as explained. Is common sense really such a challenge for you? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, dumbass. It is logical, and practically common sense that botting level 4 couerier missions is worthwhile Why would anyone need to provide proof that that the sky is blue? Open your eyes. You must be quite the idiot if you expect anyone to take your baseless criticism seriously in light of all this.
Listen up dude,
When your able to write a sentence without insults, we can start a conversation, if that is beyond your mental horizon just eff off.
Breakfast is the most important drink of the day.
|
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 15:26:24 -
[87] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote:
Having read the moronic drivel of the OP, you're dam right, especially with the logical or evidenced part.
What is it exactly that you are too stupid to understand? The intelligent people in this thread seem to have no issue understanding the problem as explained. Is common sense really such a challenge for you? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, dumbass. It is logical, and practically common sense that botting level 4 couerier missions is worthwhile Why would anyone need to provide proof that that the sky is blue? Open your eyes. You must be quite the idiot if you expect anyone to take your baseless criticism seriously in light of all this. Listen up dude, When your able to write a sentence without insults, we can start a conversation, if that is beyond your mental horizon just eff off.
Why would I care to converse with someone who is too incompetent to even understand the topic? You haven't provided any arguments, and have only brought baseless criticism. You are a joke.
I'll just call you out for your blatant display of stupidity and leave you looking the fool that you clearly are.
Thanks for the bumps |
Jacques d'Orleans
3044
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 15:38:17 -
[88] - Quote
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote:NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote:
Having read the moronic drivel of the OP, you're dam right, especially with the logical or evidenced part.
What is it exactly that you are too stupid to understand? The intelligent people in this thread seem to have no issue understanding the problem as explained. Is common sense really such a challenge for you? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, dumbass. It is logical, and practically common sense that botting level 4 couerier missions is worthwhile Why would anyone need to provide proof that that the sky is blue? Open your eyes. You must be quite the idiot if you expect anyone to take your baseless criticism seriously in light of all this. Listen up dude, When your able to write a sentence without insults, we can start a conversation, if that is beyond your mental horizon just eff off. Why would I care to converse with someone who is too incompetent to even understand the topic? You haven't provided any arguments, and have only brought baseless criticism. You are a joke. I'll just call you out for your blatant display of stupidity and leave you looking the fool that you clearly are. Thanks for the bumps
Miner calm down!
Thank you for proving my point about your mental horizon. You should try YouTube, it is more appropriate for your low par trolling level.
Otoh, could it be that all those botters only exist in your head, I mean, like the obvious voices do? After the insult laden rampage from you in this thread, I would assume it is highly likely.
Breakfast is the most important drink of the day.
|
guigui lechat
the no fock given
23
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 15:43:13 -
[89] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote: Miner calm down!
please stop your insults too, unless of course you enjoy his insults. |
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 15:44:23 -
[90] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:
Miner calm down!
Thank you for proving my point about your mental horizon. You should try YouTube, it is more appropriate for your low par trolling level.
Otoh, could it be that all those botters only exist in your head, I mean, like the obvious voices do? After the insult laden rampage from you in this thread, I would assume it is highly likely.
Wow, great argument. You totally redeemed yourself.
Do you realize you haven't made a single valid point,and that you haven't made a single post that did not contain insults?
Thanks for proving me right about you.
Haven't you embarrassed yourself enough?
|
|
Jacques d'Orleans
3044
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 15:45:28 -
[91] - Quote
guigui lechat wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote: Miner calm down!
please stop your insults too, unless of course you enjoy his insults.
Miner is a profession, not an insult.
Breakfast is the most important drink of the day.
|
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 15:46:27 -
[92] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:guigui lechat wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote: Miner calm down!
please stop your insults too, unless of course you enjoy his insults. Miner is a profession, not an insult.
clown confirmed.
Did I call it, or did I call it?
I would actually like to hear an argument that would explain why I am wrong, but I can see that will never happen from this lot. |
Jacques d'Orleans
3044
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 15:47:03 -
[93] - Quote
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote: Do you realize you haven't made a single valid point,and that you haven't made a single post that did not contain insults?
That coming from you? Oh, the irony!
Breakfast is the most important drink of the day.
|
guigui lechat
the no fock given
23
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 15:48:10 -
[94] - Quote
The way you use it is an insult. And being a profession does not prevent to use it as an insult, as you do.
You are downlooking on people and only this already explains all the insults you got before. So stop being a smartass. I tell you, you are insulting. I'm not your parent to explain you why calling people names is insulting. |
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 15:49:57 -
[95] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote: Do you realize you haven't made a single valid point,and that you haven't made a single post that did not contain insults?
That coming from you? Oh, the irony!
Other people in the the thread have agreed with me. You aren't even capable of forming an argument or even explain what it is exactly that you don't agree with.
Don't you have something better to do than troll by acting like a total moron?
guigui lechat wrote:The way you use it is an insult. And being a profession does not prevent to use it as an insult, as you do.
You are downlooking on people and only this already explains all the insults you got before. So stop being a smartass. I tell you, you are insulting. I'm not your parent to explain you why calling people names is insulting.
Thank you, gui. Your accurate posts have been the most redeeming quality of this thread. I mean that.
I hope you will excuse me when I have to put the trash in its place. |
guigui lechat
the no fock given
23
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 15:53:39 -
[96] - Quote
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote:NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote: Do you realize you haven't made a single valid point,and that you haven't made a single post that did not contain insults?
That coming from you? Oh, the irony! Other people in the the thread have agreed with me. You aren't even capable of forming an argument or even explain what it is exactly that you don't agree with. Don't you have something better to do than troll by acting like a total moron?
please, nobody agreed totally with you. the goal of a discussion is to find the agreement and sisagreement points.
For example I only agree there may be a problem ; however I don't think it exists. But just thinking is in no way an argument so I don't expose it as one.
I also agree that L4 bot is easy to do and so can be profitable more easily than mining bot. |
Jacques d'Orleans
3044
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 15:55:22 -
[97] - Quote
guigui lechat wrote:The way you use it is an insult. And being a profession does not prevent to use it as an insult, as you do.
You are downlooking on people and only this already explains all the insults you got before. So stop being a smartass. I tell you, you are insulting. I'm not your parent to explain you why calling people names is insulting.
You're new to the meta game, are you?
Also obligatory: Do you have a mining permit? There is a spring action sale, one mining permit is just 10 M isk, valid for one year. A real bargain if you aks me.
Breakfast is the most important drink of the day.
|
guigui lechat
the no fock given
23
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 15:55:55 -
[98] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:guigui lechat wrote:The way you use it is an insult. And being a profession does not prevent to use it as an insult, as you do.
You are downlooking on people and only this already explains all the insults you got before. So stop being a smartass. I tell you, you are insulting. I'm not your parent to explain you why calling people names is insulting. You're new to the meta game, are you? Also obligatory: Do you have a mining permit? There is a spring action sale, one mining permit is just 10 M isk, valid for one year. A real bargain if you aks me.
go away, this is for people discuting, not for children blabering. If you have nothing to say, don't say anything.
When you'll be over 12 you may understand life but for now you still need your parents to think for you. So don't post unless they correct your post. |
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 16:05:00 -
[99] - Quote
guigui lechat wrote:
please, nobody agreed totally with you. the goal of a discussion is to find the agreement and sisagreement points.
For example I only agree there may be a problem ; however I don't think it exists. But just thinking is in no way an argument so I don't expose it as one.
I also agree that L4 bot is easy to do and so can be profitable more easily than mining bot.
However I dont't think the bots are crashing the market - but again I don't have any argument, just my feeling.
What part did you disagree with?
I guess it depends on what you view as problematic. Do you believe that if someone is able to cheat and earn LP effortlessly, while others do it legit, that it is unfair to those players who earn LP legit, and thus becomes problematic for those players?
Can they lower the value of LP for some players without crashing the market?
If you say yes to these questions, then i think you do totally agree with me.
It may not be a significant problem for a lot of people, but it is still a problem for some people. And we seem to be thinking of this only in terms of how it effects other players and ignoring the fact that players are breaking the EULA and cheating.
Most of the commenters seem to be thinking of things only pertaining their own perspective, rather than how this effects others. |
Jacques d'Orleans
3044
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 16:05:58 -
[100] - Quote
guigui lechat wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote:guigui lechat wrote:The way you use it is an insult. And being a profession does not prevent to use it as an insult, as you do.
You are downlooking on people and only this already explains all the insults you got before. So stop being a smartass. I tell you, you are insulting. I'm not your parent to explain you why calling people names is insulting. You're new to the meta game, are you? Also obligatory: Do you have a mining permit? There is a spring action sale, one mining permit is just 10 M isk, valid for one year. A real bargain if you aks me. go away, this is for people discuting, not for children. If you have nothing to say, don't say anything. When you'll be over 12 you may understand life but for now you still need your parents to think for you. So don't post unless they correct your post.
Oh, your losing your temper. See, how easy it is to step down to the OP's level of impotent rage.
Breakfast is the most important drink of the day.
|
|
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 16:07:05 -
[101] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:guigui lechat wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote:guigui lechat wrote:The way you use it is an insult. And being a profession does not prevent to use it as an insult, as you do.
You are downlooking on people and only this already explains all the insults you got before. So stop being a smartass. I tell you, you are insulting. I'm not your parent to explain you why calling people names is insulting. You're new to the meta game, are you? Also obligatory: Do you have a mining permit? There is a spring action sale, one mining permit is just 10 M isk, valid for one year. A real bargain if you aks me. go away, this is for people discuting, not for children. If you have nothing to say, don't say anything. When you'll be over 12 you may understand life but for now you still need your parents to think for you. So don't post unless they correct your post. Oh, your losing your temper. See, how easy it is to step down to the OP's level of impotent rage.
No, hes right. Nobody even knows what you are about, and can't possibly take you seriously.
Haven't you made an idiot of yourself enough? |
guigui lechat
the no fock given
23
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 16:10:57 -
[102] - Quote
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote: What part did you disagree with?
I guess it depends on what you view as problematic. Do you believe that if someone is able to cheat and earn LP effortlessly, while others do it legit, that it is unfair to those players who earn LP legit, and thus becomes problematic for those players?
Can they lower the value of LP for some players without crashing the market?
If you say yes to these questions, then i think you do totally agree with me.
It may not be a significant problem for a lot of people, but it is still a problem for some people.
Most of the commenters seem to be thinking of things only pertaining their own perspective, rather than how this effects others.
I consider your point of view plausible but I do not think it bo be the reality. I do not "disagree", I just have a different opinion(but no argument to share as I said)
and everybody sees things with his own perspective, when discussing we need to share our perspectives. Without insults and without looking down on people. |
ISD Chanisa Nemes
isd community communications liaisons
108
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 18:45:10 -
[103] - Quote
Okay guys, look...
There has been a lot of bickering in this thread. I get that you all have very strong opinions on the subject but if a constructive discussion and debate is to continue, everyone has to respect each other and stop throwing insults all over. This goes for everyone. I will continue to monitor this thread so everyone, be nice.
And here's a cute puppy gif so we can all feel better and move on <3
ISD Chanisa Nemes
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
Andrew Indy
Jedran Space Services
247
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 03:14:25 -
[104] - Quote
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote: What part did you disagree with?
I know this is not aimed at me but here we go.
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote: I guess it depends on what you view as problematic. Do you believe that if someone is able to cheat and earn LP effortlessly, while others do it legit, that it is unfair to those players who earn LP legit, and thus becomes problematic for those players?
Yes, People cheating is a problem.
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote: Can they lower the value of LP for some players without crashing the market?
Technically if a lot of people are cheating in that way it may affect the Value of LP.
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote: If you say yes to these questions, then i think you do totally agree with me.
It may not be a significant problem for a lot of people, but it is still a problem for some people. And we seem to be thinking of this only in terms of how it effects other players and ignoring the fact that players are breaking the EULA and cheating.
Most of the commenters seem to be thinking of things only pertaining their own perspective, rather than how this effects others.
Agreeing with the first 2 does not mean that someone agrees with your solution to the problem or that the problem is as big as you suggest. (IE I'm sure that we would all agree that its possible that a meteorite could hit the earth and kill everyone, does not mean that everyone would agree to spending a huge amount of money many a system to help prevent it)
Firstly, you say that cheater are affecting legit players, what about legit Alphas who run Legit Lvl4 courier missions. Your solution would nerf their game play as well. As well as any Alpha that is doing anything that involves the ships affected.
Secondly from the research that I did, the value of LP does not seem to have dropped drastically if at all which means it may very well not be affecting the people you say it is. Why nerf a legit play style to help people that are not being adversely affected.
Thirdly, if the things they are doing is against the EULA then those responsible should be targeted using the terms in that agreement. If people Bot in X ship or Mine in Y ship you would not nerf the ships into the ground right? Same could be said here.
And Finally, if you kill this game play why would he botters not just move to Lvl3 missions, sure they are lower Isk but as you said you can have an unlimited number of accounts doing it 23.5/7 so who cares.
In closing most people are not bastards, Some things are easy say like killing someone but that does not mean that everyone is doing it. |
Professor Sternu Tarantoga
The Futurological Congress
87
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 12:06:59 -
[105] - Quote
After I googled the topic I came to the conclusion that this thread is a good marketing stunt, if that was the the OP's intention or not. You may add: GÇ£Filthy rich cargo mission runners hate me for telling you..GÇ¥ |
guigui lechat
the no fock given
23
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 12:09:16 -
[106] - Quote
Professor Sternu Tarantoga wrote:After I googled the topic I came to the conclusion that this thread is a good marketing stunt, if that was the the OP's intention or not. You may add: GÇ£Filthy rich cargo mission runners hate me for telling you..GÇ¥ made me laugh :)
"Filthy rich cargo mission runners will hate me for letting this ancestral secret escape" |
Andrew Indy
Jedran Space Services
253
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 04:22:14 -
[107] - Quote
guigui lechat wrote:Professor Sternu Tarantoga wrote:After I googled the topic I came to the conclusion that this thread is a good marketing stunt, if that was the the OP's intention or not. You may add: GÇ£Filthy rich cargo mission runners hate me for telling you..GÇ¥ made me laugh :) "Filthy rich cargo mission runners will hate me for letting this ancestral secret escape"
"3 easy step to becoming a filthy rich cargo mission runner you will never believe"
|
Acher0n Hades
Ze One Man Show
6
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 09:08:38 -
[108] - Quote
Andrew Indy wrote:guigui lechat wrote:Professor Sternu Tarantoga wrote:After I googled the topic I came to the conclusion that this thread is a good marketing stunt, if that was the the OP's intention or not. You may add: GÇ£Filthy rich cargo mission runners hate me for telling you..GÇ¥ made me laugh :) "Filthy rich cargo mission runners will hate me for letting this ancestral secret escape" "3 easy step to becoming a filthy rich cargo mission runner you will never believe"
I am a Minmatar prince and want to move a billion cargo mission loyalty points from Minmatar space to Caldari space. You can have 10% of the LP if you help me move them, but I need 500 Mil. ISK to pay the taxes in advance.
There are also Minmatar damsels that want to marry you because of your good looking Avatar, you just have to pay for the flight and paperwork.
|
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
584
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 02:05:25 -
[109] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Hmmm...
I hadnt realizedf how capable hauler alphas can be with the T1 industrials.
Much less that they can farm LP like this.
Dang your character looks like Evan Jonigkeit from the Netflix mini series Frontier.
http://imgur.com/JXHDE5C |
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