Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
1159
|
Posted - 2016.12.30 07:10:44 -
[31] - Quote
First up, after much head scratching, I've come to the conclusion that there's absolutely nothing in EVE an Alpha can't actively participate in.
You may not be able to fly a Dreadnaught, but you can certainly tackle one for your fleet and enjoy watching it go boom. You may not be able to light a Cyno, but you can take a Titan Bridge to one.
Even cloaky Black Ops fleets are open to you, you can sit in a brick tanked Vexor (for example) and act as bait while the cloaky cyno/tackle ship sits nearby waiting for someone to take a nibble at you so they can light the Cyno and together you proceed to drop a hundred bombers and BLOPS Battleships on some poor fool's head.
Goonswarm has a great meme/ad thingy about exactly THIS.
An Alpha sitting in a Maulus or Crucifier can effectively shut down three 100m SP pilots and prevent or minimise their damage potential. One keen Alpha in a Griffin can save a capital ship by jamming out tackle.
Give me a keen young Alpha clone, bright eyed and excited in their T1 EWAR or Tackle Frigates and Cruisers over a bored, jaded, whinging bittervet in their ISK2b battleship any and every day of the week.
Trasch Taranogas wrote:I read somewhere that level 4 is 20% SP to get 80% advantage.
That last bit of gain is so ridiculous its not even worth getting as many are saying. Cloaking as an example.
In some cases, you are correct in that last IV-V gain is rather pithy for the time investment required, Cloaking, as you identified, is a good example.
There's also plenty of examples of where level V skills can allow you to do some amazing things that you couldn't do with level IV skills. The core fitting skills come to mind here. There's some really nifty ship fits out there that require you to squeeze every last bit of Powergrid and CPU possible out of your hull. Powergrid/CPU Management, Weapons Upgrades, Advanced Weapons Upgrades, Energy Grid Upgrades and the like are all 'fitting skills'.
Then, there's a few skills that you have no choice but to train to V if you're set on a certain path. Advanced Spaceship Command V comes to mind.
Logistics Cruisers V is another one. Take it from a LogiBro, the difference between IV and V in the logistics wing is HUGE, especially when we're talking Guardians and Basilisks which establish a capacitor transfer chain. Logi V is flat out demanded by most logi wings and logi IV is usually only very briefly tolerated if you're actively training to V. The reason is simple: A Logi V Guardian is cap stable. A Logi IV Guardian generally isn't. In a long battle, the Logi IV bros will cap out and when they do, the whole cap chain can collapse, capping out the Logi V pilots and leaving the entire fleet at the mercy of your opponents.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
|
Major Trant
Mass Collapse It Must Be Jelly Cause Jam Don't Shake
1556
|
Posted - 2016.12.30 10:14:21 -
[32] - Quote
Trasch Taranogas wrote:My point of this is said Memphis Baas. 34 years to get all level5.
34 years!!! Thats beyond comprehension. Nothing lasts that long. Couldnt like 5 years be a cap? I would point out that in many cases level V opens the doors to new skills or T2 equipment, it isn't just a 20% gain on the previous level. Some skills though are 'almost' worthless to train to V. Cloaking V, any racial T3 Cruiser, Jury Rigging etc.
I've been subscribed to this game on this char for 6 years and at the moment I'm excited because I'm 2 days away from the final skill to get into Black Ops Battleships. This skill will have zero impact on most players and PvP engagements I get involved in as it's use will be very limited. But I'm drooling at the prospect of fitting up my first Black Ops BS. I should add that this char can't fly caps and Dreads is my next big thing to aim for. I don't inject SP btw.
If skills stopped at IV I would have everything on every char on this account already and probably playing another game, but this post would still be here complaining about IV being the 80% effort for a miserable gain. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6332
|
Posted - 2016.12.30 13:10:08 -
[33] - Quote
Just a couple of points, if there was a 5 year cap:
I'd have max skills now. There are a _lot_ of players who have been around longer than I have.
With the longer skill train, the difference between an old character, and a new character is less pronounced. Sure, I've been playing for 5 years, but I don't have everything at max, and pwn everyone. I had to pick where to specialise
If you pick somewhere else, it could be a hard counter for what I picked.
It makes the skill training decisions more meaningful.
However, one thing to bear in mind is, once you hit a certain point, you're not getting 'better'. You're just getting more flexible. Instead of being 20% better with a ship, you have another ship available. (training into a different race, for example)
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
|
Professor Sternu Tarantoga
The Futurological Congress
49
|
Posted - 2016.12.30 13:11:01 -
[34] - Quote
If your skill queue would end after 5 or 10 years and there was nothing more to train.. now much old school players would have quit EVE by now? And even if they stayed every old clone would have exactly the same set of maxxed skills. And about the skill progression: I like it that I can catch up to 80% on most fits in a moderate amount of time while the vets get their 20% bonus for their skills at level 5. Seems to be quite balanced to me.
As we progress our skills without grind (like most other games do) it should take some time to reach the same level as year old pilots or those players would feel a bit screwed. 80% doesn't feel to weak as a new player and I don't get the feeling I couldn't stand a chance against vets at all.
EDIT.. ninjaed by a CSM.. |
mkint
1332
|
Posted - 2016.12.30 15:30:28 -
[35] - Quote
OP is right. Max SP for everyone! Infinite resources for everyone! God mode for everyone!
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
|
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2016.12.30 16:29:08 -
[36] - Quote
Oh boy.
Thank you everybody for the response!
Very well explained. I kinda get it now.
There has emerged another question. Seems that the importance of equipping the ship could be far more important than training some level of skill?
Are we too obsessed about skills (those who dont unlock others)?
One of the biggest handicap an Alpha has is the lack of cloaking skill, or?
I miss my IS-7
|
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3224
|
Posted - 2016.12.30 16:46:15 -
[37] - Quote
Yes, we are all obsessed with skillpoints, unfortunately this does not stop soon...
But you got it, personal skill and knowledge (knowing the mechanics and twists, resulting also in efficient fits) are much more important than a lvl5 skill.
Cloaking is a serious restriction, but necessary to avoid abuse.
I'm my own NPC alt.
|
Keno Skir
1130
|
Posted - 2016.12.30 16:53:21 -
[38] - Quote
Trasch Taranogas wrote:Oh boy.
Thank you everybody for the response!
Very well explained. I kinda get it now.
There has emerged another question. Seems that the importance of equipping the ship could be far more important than training some level of skill?
Are we too obsessed about skills (those who dont unlock others)?
One of the biggest handicap an Alpha has is the lack of cloaking skill, or?
Actual skills (how to approach, what to shoot or not shoot etc) are far more important and meaningful than SP skills (flying t2 ships etc).
I have several Alphas successfully living in wormhole space as explorers currently, they don;t seem to be held back much by lack of cloak (because they've been taught actual skills).
How you fit your ship is generally more important than the extra few % of whatever skill. This is demonstrated by vets rolling new characters and winning fights in them with next to no SP. It has been shown that actual skills will generally win a fight against someone with lots of SP but no actual skills.
Keep it up, pop by here if you're confused, stay humble and don't wait for skills too much. Think to yourself "how can i do this with what i have, rather than waiting for the skills".
Fly dangerous
<Gùï> 250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <Gùï>
Including ISK Bonus & In Game Assistance - Piracy / Wormhole Space / Covops PvP
|
Memphis Baas
2612
|
Posted - 2016.12.30 21:11:46 -
[39] - Quote
Trasch Taranogas wrote:Seems that the importance of equipping the ship could be far more important than training some level of skill?
Equipping the ship properly IS much more important that the skills you trained.
You're the one who's been focusing on skills.
Basic guidelines. Advice from a PVP veteran. Video. Fitting the Alpha clone ships. |
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2016.12.30 21:25:15 -
[40] - Quote
Got caught in the hype. Only played 2 weeks, everywhere is mandatory skillplans and players buying skillinjectors for ALOT of money.
I miss my IS-7
|
|
Lena Crews
Universal Sanitation Corporation
13
|
Posted - 2016.12.30 21:58:28 -
[41] - Quote
Well... I understand how fitting is important.
But you have to have the skills to make the fit work too. Or to use the proper equipment. To me it feels like there is a certain set of skills... particularly fitting skills and skills to get you into the most crucial T2 equipment for the ships you fly with early on.
the list of truly necessary skills is probably smaller than most of us think it is though. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1806
|
Posted - 2016.12.31 01:06:04 -
[42] - Quote
Trasch Taranogas wrote: Got caught in the hype. Only played 2 weeks, everywhere is mandatory skillplans and players buying skillinjectors for ALOT of money.
A few things to keep in mind:
Skill injectors give you less skill points as you go up in skill points also the more skill points that you have the less good that each injector does for you since your skill levels take more and more skill points to attain. As a result I would imagine that the percentage of people buying injectors who are new players is much higher than in the rest of Eve.
Most players coming to Eve are coming from other MMOs. Most other MMOs have mechanics that make so that a player a few levels above another player or with a better gearscore has such an extreme advantage that it can't be over come. So they come to Eve and play with that as their default mentality. TBH you really can't learn that is not the case in Eve until you've gotten both the experience and the skill points and then go back and play on a low skill point alt later on.
Egos are involved here and when people fail at doing something they typically are quick to point the finger in every direction but inward.
Keeping all of the above in mind you can't blame new players for thinking that they can buy their way to glory in this game, it just happens to not be true. Even when us vets tell the new players that it is not the case they just think that we are forgetting how hard it is to be on a new character ( not realizing most of us have played on low skill point alts ).
TL;dr It's one of those " you don't know what hot is until you have touched fire" kind of things.
|
Memphis Baas
2615
|
Posted - 2016.12.31 03:23:41 -
[43] - Quote
Lena Crews wrote:The list of truly necessary skills is probably smaller than most of us think it is though.
There's organization in the skill system. You can categorize the skills by:
1. Ship skills (Spaceship Command group), these unlock new ships for you. 2. Weapon skills (Gunnery, Missiles, Drones), train only the weapons that your ship uses. 3. Support skills (Engineering, Armor, Shields, Targeting, Electronics, Navigation) these make all your ships fly better. 4. Miscellaneous (Industry, Science, Reprocessing, Trading, Planetary, Corporate, Neural, Social) - train as needed.
If you press the ^ arrow to reconfigure the character sheet to hide your portrait and shrink the skill categories to a single row of icons, the skill categories are ordered as above, from left to right.
Ship skills typically follow the progression lines shown in the Ship Chart in-game.
Weapon skills typically have: - one main skill that is a prerequisite - one skill per weapon that you want to unlock - two skills per weapon to unlock T2 versions of that weapon - weapon support skills that increase range, accuracy, damage, and performance of all weapons.
Support skills have various degrees of importance. Overall, you only need to train skills to 3 to unlock T2 defense modules (T2 armors, T2 shields), so that's nice (it used to be required to train to 5 a few years ago). In general, the bigger the ship that you're flying, the higher you should train the support skills; 2 is ok for frigates, 3 for cruisers, 4 for battleships, and capital ships are so costly that a lot of people go for 5 to minimize the chances of loss.
Miscellaneous skills are train what you want. Industry, for example, you can train the basic Industry and Mass Production skills to give you more than 1 factory line. Trading, it's probably sufficient to trade Trade and Retail to get a few more market slots, and then Accounting and Broker Relations to reduce taxes a bit. Planetary requires all the skills at 4 for good results, unfortunately. Social is nice if you want to manage your standings and offset the side-effects of FW or missions.
In any case, once you read a few ship fittings guides and get the gist of it, the skills will make a bit more sense too. Ships are limited by their slot layouts, and by their power grid and CPU, and the skills are designed to give bonuses to fit more or better gear into the ships, really. |
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2016.12.31 08:07:50 -
[44] - Quote
Seems my skills are in order so far since you point out those ship categories and T2 equipment.
I also have another character in hard training that I intend to use in chillout solo exploring, moneymaking.
Those skillsets seems more demanding.
I miss my IS-7
|
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2016.12.31 19:01:06 -
[45] - Quote
Sorry but I cant let this go.
Took a look at the ingame shiptree.
If you want to be good at flying a Leviathan you need skills worth 1333 days!
4 years to fly a ship? Admit it fanboys, this cant be right. Wouldnt this game be more awesome with more variety in ships?
Edit: thats not even worst case.
I miss my IS-7
|
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
11283
|
Posted - 2016.12.31 19:42:04 -
[46] - Quote
Trasch Taranogas wrote:Sorry but I cant let this go.
Took a look at the ingame shiptree.
If you want to be good at flying a Leviathan you need skills worth 1333 days!
4 years to fly a ship? Admit it fanboys, this cant be right. The game is assuming that you will train everything up to and relating to that ship to "max level" (hint: there are some skills you can disregard or not have to "max train").
More realistically, people who want to fly a Leviathan will only "max train" the Engineering skills, shield skills (most of them), and weapon skills (most of them). Then they will train up the minimum skills necessary to sit in the Leviathan and use it effectively.
That will take about a year and some change.
Also consider the following...
- It takes months and MASSIVE amounts of resources to build a Titan. You will not be able to do it solo. - Titans can only be built in 0.0 space... which takes lots of teamwork and organization to conquer and hold. - If you choose to buy a titan, you will be paying something in the range of 50 to 80 billion ISK. - Titans (and Supercarriers) can only dock in very large player-built station. This means you NEED a large support network to keep it safe when not in use. - Titans are extremely vulnerable to anything smaller than it. They are basically anti-capital support ships. This means they NEED other players in other ships to operate effectively.
One of the Golden Rules of EVE: "Bigger is not always better."
Trasch Taranogas wrote:Wouldnt this game be more awesome with more variety in ships? There are already a wide variety of ships you can get within a "reasonable amount of time."
There are...
- five Tech 1 Frigates per racial line ----- five Tech 2 Frigates per racial line ----- two Navy Faction Frigates per racial line ----- four Pirate Faction Frigates
That is 52 ((12 racial ships * 4 factions) + 4 Pirate frigates) ships you can potentially fly within the first few months of EVE.
And then there are Destroyers, Cruisers, Battlecruisers, and Battleships... each with their own racial, Tech 2, and Faction variants.
Just because you cannot effectively fly the "biggest ships" in the game in a short amount of time it does not mean there is no "variety."
And you will find that even the oldest and most experienced players will opt to use Frigates and Cruisers over Battleships and other "big ships" simply because they are the best tools for the situation.
EVE is not a game where the "biggest" and/or "most expensive" ship wins. EVE is not a game of "you need max skills or you are useless." EVE is not a game where "the best equipment makes you functionally immune to others."
Each ship is a tool with an inherent "usefulness" that you can utilize the moment you have access to it. Each module is something that can make your tool more useful and effective. And each skill you train will make the tools you have more effective and/or give you access to other tools.
How did you Veterans start?
|
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1808
|
Posted - 2016.12.31 19:47:24 -
[47] - Quote
Trasch Taranogas wrote:Sorry but I cant let this go.
Took a look at the ingame shiptree.
If you want to be good at flying a Leviathan you need skills worth 1333 days!
4 years to fly a ship? Admit it fanboys, this cant be right. Wouldnt this game be more awesome with more variety in ships?
Edit: thats not even worst case. You are correct that you can't seem to "let this go" but what "this" is seems to be more relevant.
Titans are intentionally a very long train. When the game was first made the Devs thought that there would be very few Titans in game. They are insanely expensive, difficult, and time consuming to build. Until very recently ( the introduction of citadels a couple months back ) you could not dock Titans and thus they were essentially coffins meaning once you got inside one you were in it until you got blown up.
As such nearly all, if not all, Titan pilots have been alts. Alts that did not get used much. Further most Titan pilots would just sit inside a PoS while they were logged on and provide bridges to cyno beacons for other pilots that were actually doing stuff. This is not deep and engaging game play that any pilot is looking to commit to on his / her main.
Eve is not a linear "progression" MMO. There is no end game in Eve. Years from now you will still be flying the very same cheap T1 small and medium ships into PvP that you are flying now. So please explain to me what aspects of Eve you are missing out on by not being able to fly a Titan in your first year of gameplay? After you answer that then look at how expensive one is and tell me how long you think it would take you to be able to afford one. After you answer that I want you to tell me how long you think you would need to play the game for it to make sense for you to jump a Titan into battle.
It seems to me that what you are having a hard time letting go of is the MO of other games. Eve is very different from other MMOs and if you are going to enjoy Eve for what it is you need to let go of the preconceived notions that have been taught to you by other games. I have said before that to both enjoy Eve and be good at Eve you first need to either let go of or maybe even unlearn everything that other MMOs have taught you.
I can't say this enough Eve is not a progression MMO. You are not going from Frigs to dessies to cruisers to BC etc.... You can participate in pretty much every aspect of this game on day one. You can contribute in a meaningful way on day one. The only thing holding you back in this game is you.
The only thing that most Eve pilots who have had any experience with Titans like about Titans is either having access to use the jump bridge of one or being on a KM for one. Both of those things you can do with a Titan on day one.
So I suggest you quit focusing on what ships that you can not yet fly and start focusing on the knowledge and experience that you don't yet have.
https://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=3346 Just as a side note maybe you might want to wait until you have 6 Billion disposable isk laying around to spend on the skillbook before you start whinning about the long training time to get into the ship. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
11284
|
Posted - 2016.12.31 19:56:39 -
[48] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:It seems to me that what you are having a hard time letting go of is the MO of other games. Eve is very different from other MMOs and if you are going to enjoy Eve for what it is you need to let go of the preconceived notions that have been taught to you by other games. This is my impression as well.
As ergh says... forget everything you have learned in other MMOs. It will not help you here.
How did you Veterans start?
|
mkint
1333
|
Posted - 2016.12.31 20:03:53 -
[49] - Quote
Trasch Taranogas wrote:Sorry but I cant let this go.
Took a look at the ingame shiptree.
If you want to be good at flying a Leviathan you need skills worth 1333 days!
4 years to fly a ship? Admit it fanboys, this cant be right. Wouldnt this game be more awesome with more variety in ships?
Edit: thats not even worst case. ugh, I'm getting beyond the point of wanting to be helpful here and would rather just make fun of you.
Some things are supposed to be hard. It's not that complicated. Your whole "oh I get it, bigger isn't always better" "I want bigger and better!" is... embarrassing. Memory of a goldfish. Rather than get into why titans, and most capitals, suck, I'm just going to say that your brain isn't right on this matter. Find fun where you can get it, and find something that's not imaginary to be angry about.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
|
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1808
|
Posted - 2016.12.31 20:06:41 -
[50] - Quote
Judging from more recent posts I am guessing that you did not watch the 17 Day old Rifter Trial Account PvP video, from the eveiseasy youtube channel, that I linked in post 19.
I can understand you not having watched it since it is a 45 minute long video so I will sum it up for you.
Suitonia is an experienced Eve PvP vet and has made videos on brand new trial account alts back before alphas existed. Those trial account characters started out with around 56K skill points and the video in question was made when that character was between 10 - 17 days old. His fits are intentionally cheap, iirc they are about 3.5 millioin isk fully fit, using only mods available to very new players. At the time the video was made skill injectors did not exist so it's not even possible for him to have much more than 700K skill points at the end of the making of this video.
In the video he goes out and wins PvP encounters against years old characters in much more expensive T2 frigates. At one point in the video he solos 3 interceptors and winds up killing two of them before he gets blown up and almost gets the third. Which is a huge win in pretty much anyone's book.
I think you should probably start to think about what it is that you would like to do in this game and start focusing on that. If you don't know what you want to do then start trying lots of stuff until you figure it out.
It seems to me like you are trying to figure out what you want to do when you are level capped and you are playing the wrong game for that. |
|
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy Caldari State
25
|
Posted - 2016.12.31 20:16:36 -
[51] - Quote
Im hopeless, I know.
Okay forget the level cap thing and instead have a specific amount of skillpoints that you can have? Like fitting a ship, use your points visely.
Also doesnt the skillinjectors open for that pay 2 win (dominate) direction?
I miss my IS-7
|
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy Caldari State
25
|
Posted - 2016.12.31 20:24:24 -
[52] - Quote
Hmm, not easy to know what you want.
One side wants WoT-like epic battles, another side wants to explore. Even roaming around in a small group doin helpful things would be nice.
I miss my IS-7
|
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy Caldari State
25
|
Posted - 2016.12.31 20:29:35 -
[53] - Quote
@ergherhdfgh
Watched til 17 mins. Maan, I felt like a ******. No clue what Im doin.
I miss my IS-7
|
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
11284
|
Posted - 2016.12.31 20:46:33 -
[54] - Quote
Trasch Taranogas wrote:Okay forget the level cap thing and instead have a specific amount of skillpoints that you can have? There is no limit to how many skillpoints you can have.
And as I said in an earlier post, no skill or specialty will prevent you from using another skill or specialty.
That said... only a finite amount of skills affect a finite amount of ships.
Some examples:
- I have mining skills and can mine asteroids quite effectively. But those skills do not affect my combat skills.
- I have skills that allow me to use large weapons. However this will not help me if I choose to use a Frigate (which uses only small weapons).
- I have Armor skills. However these skills will not help me if I am using a ship fit for shields. The same will hold true in reverse.
Basically... do not rely on "total skillpoints" as a metric for how "powerful" a player is.
Only a small fraction of a player's character skills can be used at any given time. The rest of those skillpoints simply gives a player options for what he/she can potentially use in the future.
Trasch Taranogas wrote:Also doesnt the skillinjectors open for that pay 2 win (dominate) direction? Yes and no.
It will certainly give a player more options in what he/she can fly... and how effective those options can potentially be.
But if you do not know how to use those skillpoints (see: you have no experience) then they are fairly useless.
Example: I was attempting to bring a good friend into EVE. He complained that, because he had fewer skillpoints than I, he could not help me and would simply be smashed by another player like me.
So I performed an experiment. I let him use my character and let him pick out any ship in my hanger (he chose my Navy Omen). I used his character and built a cheapo "tackler" frigate (Rifter).
I challenged him to a duel.
Round 1: Cheapo-Tech 1 Rifter (Me) vs fully-fit Omen Navy Issue (My Friend)
I used my knowledge and experience to spin in circles around my friend. His Navy Omen could not hit me with the main weapons. And I killed all of his drones (leaving him without a counter to my ship).
He cried foul and said that I fit the frigate up to directly counter the "good ship." So we switched back to our respective characters.
Round 2: Cheapo-Tech 1 Rifter (My Friend) vs fully-fit Omen Navy Issue (Me)
I nuked him in 2 volleys using my knowledge of weapon tracking and range (note: he was "reimbursed" )
On a personal note though... you will find a great many people in EVE (including myself) to be a little disgruntled by the skill injector system. It is a "the principle of the matter" for us.
edit:
Quote:Hmm, not easy to know what you want.
One side wants WoT-like epic battles, another side wants to explore. Even roaming around in a small group doin helpful things would be nice. You will find that almost every activity in EVE is related to another activity in EVE. Pretty much everything is in conflict with everything else. This is what makes EVE so interesting.
Builders, haulers, and explorers need materials to make make money... so they need protection and safety from other players. At the same time... Builders, haulers, and explorers need to players to fight one another to create demand for their products.
Some want to run solo, but know that things are MUCH more difficult if they are confronted by a group of players working together... necessitating the solo players to work together.
Quote:Hell, crusin that fearsome lookin Rokh would be nice. Go for it... but do note that larger ships rely on teamwork to really function well.
A common situation is seeing a relative newbie in a battleship get swarmed and taken apart by a group of ****-fit Frigates.
Or die to a "non-combat ship."
How did you Veterans start?
|
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2016.12.31 21:01:08 -
[55] - Quote
I know Im a crybaby but thank you everyone for your patience.
I read all the answers but sometimes its like hebrew, especially those videos of pros makin it look easy, like changing socks.
I could apply for the dev. team and make this game better...
I miss my IS-7
|
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
11284
|
Posted - 2016.12.31 21:07:48 -
[56] - Quote
The only two things the "pros" truly have over you is experience and knowledge.
That's it.
No... seriously... that is literally it.
If you learn how the weapon mechanics work, you can avoid incoming damage and maximize your own. If you learn how your Directional Scanner works and how to use it well, you can avoid unfavorable situations and hunt down favorable ones.
It simply takes time and a willingness to go out there and "duu eeeeeeet!!!"
How did you Veterans start?
|
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1808
|
Posted - 2016.12.31 21:14:57 -
[57] - Quote
Trasch Taranogas wrote:Im hopeless, I know.
Okay forget the level cap thing and instead have a specific amount of skillpoints that you can have? Like fitting a ship, use your points visely.
Also doesnt the skillinjectors open for that pay 2 win (dominate) direction? You are far from hopeless just learning.
My first year in this game was a rough ride for me. Mostly because I had a hard time letting go of things that I learned in WoW. I was playing this game as if it were WoW and this game kicked my ass. This is mostly why I forum warrior here in the NC Q&A because I want to help new converts get past it quicker than I did.
As far as pay to win that might be true if: - This were a free to play game, which it is not and - Skill points determined the winner in PvP
Eve is a subscription based game with an unlimited duration free trial period. I know CCP tries to sell it as if it were F2P but it's not it is a subscription game.
Combat in this game is about counter's and match ups. Every ship and pretty much every module and even every specific load out has situation where it can dominate and also it's exact counter. Winning at PvP in this game has a lot to do with know when to fight and when to run. Most PvP encounters are won or lost before the first shot is fired. There is an awful lot of meta gaming here. Meaning that you typically have to convince your opponent that he has a chance to win while at the same time making sure that he doesn't. Keeping in mind that he is trying to do the same.
Balance in this game is not about making sure that each ship has an equal chance to win against every other ship. It's about making sure that each ship has enough situations where it is good and enough where it is not.
You also have to keep in mind that there is no queueable PvP with a set number of players against the exact same number of players of the same level with similar gearscores or ratings. You can play the Damsel in distress in this game just to have a bunch of friends jump in and join the fight as soon as you get the other guys to commit to combat. You can pick a solo fight against someone in a ship that you think would be a fairly even match for you but there is nothing stopping him from providing a warp to point for a fleet of 20 of his closest friends. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1809
|
Posted - 2016.12.31 21:20:31 -
[58] - Quote
Trasch Taranogas wrote:Hmm, not easy to know what you want.
One side wants WoT-like epic battles, another side wants to explore. Even roaming around in a small group doin helpful things would be nice.
Hell, crusin that fearsome lookin Rokh would be nice.
All this before nursery-home though. You can do all of this. Nothing stopping you from doing any of it. One thing to note about this game. Since it is a sandbox there is no structure to make specific things happen. You can do anything that you want in this game but you have to make it happen. After the tutorials the game is not going to hold your hand and walk you through anything.
If you want to get involved in huge null sec battles then you need to find a null sec corp that does that. Exploring in a small group and day tripping into wormholes can also be easily done in that same null sec corp.
Trasch Taranogas wrote:@ergherhdfgh
Watched til 17 mins. Maan, I felt like a ******. No clue what Im doin. Ya I figured as much which is why I summed it up for you. |
Jax Bederen
Dark Horse RM
299
|
Posted - 2016.12.31 21:27:26 -
[59] - Quote
Trasch Taranogas wrote:Sorry but I cant let this go.
Took a look at the ingame shiptree.
If you want to be good at flying a Leviathan you need skills worth 1333 days!
4 years to fly a ship? Admit it fanboys, this cant be right. Wouldnt this game be more awesome with more variety in ships?
Edit: thats not even worst case.
Yea, it is insane for those living outside a game, thats likely a pretty normal response. I dont plan a week ahead on what I'm going to do on the weekend, never mind planning for a video game. Eve is an old game and it has some old mmo bad habits in it's mechanics. you are getting some fanboy sunshine blown up your rear a bit here. Having said that, also getting lot's of straight information and great advice. Realistically you have to think about what you want to do, I like to explore and sometimes do a L4 here and there, so my focus has been on flying a Machariel for L4's and cruisers for exploration. You figure what it is you like and aim in that direction, if you want to speed up training I would suggest get a Mach and do L4's or join a corp in more lucrative space to make isk. That brings me to why you could use that isk, if training times freak you out. 2 words, skill injectors, it makes the insane possible. that 30 day training no longer looks so bad when you can take a couple 8 day training chunks out of it during the training duration by buying injectors. But whatever you do to make that isk, do what you enjoy so it doesn't become a repetitive grind.
As far as the game needing more ships, it really has enough with many different roles, there seems to be a big gap in progression where going up to a BS and pirate class is steady but going to T2 and those interesting ships is an eternity(for an average human). But again, skill injectors have you covered there, it was a pretty brilliant addition by the devs to open up the game this way. so dont fret about duration for now just get skills to 4 with a few 5's and you should be pretty functional in around a month. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1809
|
Posted - 2016.12.31 21:32:26 -
[60] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote: On a personal note though... you will find a great many people in EVE (including myself) to be a little disgruntled by the skill injector system. It is a "the principle of the matter" for us.
For me it was that before skill injectors I would occasionally see the random new player that purchased a high skill point character thinking that he could buy glory in this game and then come here to the forums and cry about how unfair the game was.
It was a long hard struggle to show the guy that the very fact that you could not pay to win in this game was the definition of fair. It blew my mind that people could try to pay to win and then fail and somehow see that is proof that the game was "not fair".
Anyway I knew that the skill injectors would only further the problem with new players thinking that they could pay to win. It seems to me that it has.
It just seems funny to me that you can tell a new player that this game is about what you know not your skill points nor what they are flying. They won't believe you, they can go out and trying to pay to win by buying skill points and blinging out a ship and then when they realize for themselves that this is true they then say that the game is not fair because vets have all of the advantage even with cheaper ships and lower skill points.
You have to learn this game to be good at it. Sitting around waiting for skill points to train or complaining about the skill points that you don't have won't teach you this game. Going out and playing it will. Once you learn the game and get good at it you will be able to win even on cheaper ships and even with lower skill points.
So just go out and get your experience. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |