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Lena Crews
Universal Sanitation Corporation
6
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Posted - 2016.12.29 18:53:13 -
[1] - Quote
In my prior stint in EVE and so far since re-subscribing... my PVP experience has been pretty much... running away.
I'm pretty good at running away. I ran a good number of missions in low and NPC null when I played before and was only killed once... and I've only been killed once since coming back. My losses consist of a rifter and a probe.
But I'm thinking of trying to learn a bit about PVP by flying cheap T1 frigates around low sec and picking fights. My question comes with how this will impact standings. Right now I'm pretty much at 0 with my faction standings. I was pretty bad (not shoot on sight bad but well into the negative) because of running gurrista missions in NPC null, but I've managed to recover with creative mission running.
So first... will killing other players impact faction standings (say if they're in a FW corp)? Second... I know attacking players will impact my security status. I'm not planning on podding anyone... but I know it will decline. How far down into the negative is it safe to go before I can't safely visit 1.0 systems? Third... I figure I'm going to fail spectacularly my first few attempts... is it the act of attacking a ship or destroying it that cause a sec status hit?
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Kitsa
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
14
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Posted - 2016.12.29 19:11:30 -
[2] - Quote
your sec standing is going to take a hit. but you can use an alt to go shopping in hisec.
key is to know what to fight and what not to fight, have fun! |
Lena Crews
Universal Sanitation Corporation
6
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Posted - 2016.12.29 19:15:15 -
[3] - Quote
Kitsa wrote:your sec standing is going to take a hit. but you can use an alt to go shopping in hisec.
key is to know what to fight and what not to fight, have fun!
If I mix missions in with the pvp... I should be able to balance it all out as far as sec-status goes... right?
Or is the hit too big to realistically counter (10 lvl 4's to one attack in lowsec?)
I'm at a 5.0 sec status now... I figured I should be able to run few a decent number of Tristan's before I have to worry... am I wrong about that? |
Memphis Baas
2602
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Posted - 2016.12.29 19:33:14 -
[4] - Quote
Faction Warfare is sanctioned, though, you won't lose sec. status like a pirate would, as long as you stick to killing only enemy militia players. If you shoot neutrals, you'll take hits.
As far as standings, you gain FW rank points for killing enemy militia players, and at some point that will increase your rank and you'll lose standings with the opposite empires.
The limits are:
-2.0 can't enter 1.0 -2.5 can't enter 0.9 -3 ... 0.8 etc.
Train the Social skills to offset your ratings towards the positive, make it easier to recover. There are several skills in the Social group, and some of them cost millions from the NPC vendors, but they're worth it.
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Lena Crews
Universal Sanitation Corporation
6
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Posted - 2016.12.29 19:38:20 -
[5] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Faction Warfare is sanctioned, though, you won't lose sec. status like a pirate would, as long as you stick to killing only enemy militia players. If you shoot neutrals, you'll take hits.
As far as standings, you gain FW rank points for killing enemy militia players, and at some point that will increase your rank and you'll lose standings with the opposite empires.
The limits are:
-2.0 can't enter 1.0 -2.5 can't enter 0.9 -3 ... 0.8 etc.
Train the Social skills to offset your ratings towards the positive, make it easier to recover. There are several skills in the Social group, and some of them cost millions from the NPC vendors, but they're worth it.
Thanks... sounds like as long as I'm above -2, I'm okay.
And to be clear... I wasn't planning on joining FW. I was planning on going to FW space and just shooting anyone who seemed to be by themselves.
My hope/goal is to not lose faction standings... just sec status. But I didn't know if I'm in a "neutral" corp and attack say... an amarr FW pilot if I'd lose Amarr faction standing.
Long term I may "permanently" move to low sec or null or a wormhole where I just don't care about standings... but right now I'm going to be in high sec while "day tripping" into low-sec to get blown up repeatedly (and maybe luck into my first PVP victory) |
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
903
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Posted - 2016.12.29 20:07:13 -
[6] - Quote
Podding another player in any security above 0.0 will be what really hits your CONCORD standings. Otherwise it's pretty manageable especially if you balance yourself out with some PVE. I haven't gone below 0 standings in a long time. I think I have terrible corporate standings with all 4 NPC Factional Warfare corporations.. that's not the same as the faction standings.
Hope that helps
@lunettelulu7
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Lena Crews
Universal Sanitation Corporation
6
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Posted - 2016.12.29 20:12:42 -
[7] - Quote
Lulu Lunette wrote:Podding another player in any security above 0.0 will be what really hits your CONCORD standings. Otherwise it's pretty manageable especially if you balance yourself out with some PVE. I haven't gone below 0 standings in a long time. I think I have terrible corporate standings with all 4 NPC Factional Warfare corporations.. that's not the same as the faction standings. Hope that helps
If it's just corp standings... I don't really care. I have high standings with various corps in all of the factions. The only concern is faction NPC ships attacking me coming out of a station... and I'm pretty sure that only faction standings matter for that.
Avoiding the faction standing hit is why I'm thinking it makes more sense just to be a 3rd party in faction war space then joining a side.
At the moment concord doesn't like me much either (dang gurrista's missions). But I'm only a little negative with them.
Thanks for the insight. Sounds like the impact will be relatively small. |
Memphis Baas
2606
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Posted - 2016.12.30 00:09:18 -
[8] - Quote
AFAIK, if you're NOT in a militia, then you're just PVP'ing / a pirate, so the Empires don't care; you won't lose your faction standings.
Even if you're in a militia, you don't lose standings for just shooting / PVP'ing, you just gain ranks and then lose standings for the act of gaining a rank, because the militias and their empires hate each other. So basically without the FW system of military ranks being active, shooting players doesn't affect standings at all.
Just sec. status. |
Torin Corax
Mosh Pit
166
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Posted - 2016.12.30 11:48:49 -
[9] - Quote
Lena Crews wrote:Kitsa wrote:your sec standing is going to take a hit. but you can use an alt to go shopping in hisec.
key is to know what to fight and what not to fight, have fun! If I mix missions in with the pvp... I should be able to balance it all out as far as sec-status goes... right? Or is the hit too big to realistically counter (10 lvl 4's to one attack in lowsec?) I'm at a 5.0 sec status now... I figured I should be able to run few a decent number of Tristan's before I have to worry... am I wrong about that? And at this point... I plan on engaging EVERYTHING and seeing how it turns out. I figure that's how I'll learn what not to fight.
I've been away from eve for a while, so I can't give hard figures, however....
Yesterday I caught a vexor running annoms in Low sec, stupidly easy kill. + Sec hit.(No podding involved).
That evening I decided to run a couple of level 4 missions, because if I'm going to be bored I might as well make some isk off it.
Two lvl 4 missions later my sec was higher than before I ganked the vexor. granted I wasn't running the missions particularly fast, and I was deliberately killing everything in the missions even though it was unnecessary. So don't worry too much about your sec if you can/ do mission run regularly. Hell, didn't take all that long to get back up from -10 just ratting in low sec in a PvP fit pilgrim. certainly didn't take long to rat back enough sec to gain access to a lvl 4 agent in 0.5 space.
I'm no expert on the math, but afaik sec hits/ gains are a percentage adjustment. If you are 5.0 your first hits might seem pretty steep, but they should slow down a little. I am not 100% on this though, so more knowledgable people should be able to confirm/ deny this. |
Major Trant
Mass Collapse It Must Be Jelly Cause Jam Don't Shake
1556
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Posted - 2016.12.30 12:21:33 -
[10] - Quote
You won't take faction hits, just Security hits. Security hits are relevant at the following levels:
-2.0 - Faction Police spawn on you in 1.0 systems -2.5 - Faction Police spawn on you in 0.9 systems -3.0 - Faction Police spawn on you in 0.8 systems -3.5 - Faction Police spawn on you in 0.7 systems -4.0 - Faction Police spawn on you in 0.6 systems -4.5 - Faction Police spawn on you in 0.5 systems -5.0 - Other players are free to engage you in all space including hi sec. Until then Concord and Gate guns will protect you in both low and hi sec while you are not suspect or criminally flagged.
The most important level is -5.0. You can still enter the relevant high sec at the other levels as it takes time for the Faction Police to spawn and the first thing they do is web you. Another 10 seconds or so before the scram comes on, but then you can still dock or jump a gate. Basically you have to keep moving and I wouldn't try it in anything larger than a cruiser. However, at -5.0 you have to deal with other players.
You take security hits for aggressing on a player ship or pod, not killing them. It is a much bigger hit for the pod (x10 or so), so avoid that by keeping your safety set to yellow. Only an illegal podding is a criminal offense in low sec. However, if the other players fires back at you while you are attacking their ship, you will get a limited engagement timer. You will then be able to pod him at the end without a security hit and with your safety still set to yellow. A ship aggression will cost you around 0.2 security status, so you can attack around 10 players to get to -2.0 from 0.0 and 25 players before things get really dangerous.
You can raise your sec status by ratting, running regular missions, incursions and some events that kill NPC pirates. But the easiest way is to find or buy Clone Soldier tags and use them at Concorde stations to buy back your security status. There are 4 types of tags and they are used for buying back specific levels of status.
Trainer - found in 0.4 systems and buys back status between -10.0 and -8.0 Recruiter - found in 0.3 systems and buys back status between -7.9999 and -5.0 Negotiator - found in 0.2 systems and buys back status between -4.9999 and -2.0 Transporter - found in 0.1 systems and buys back status between -1.9999 and 0.0
Each tag will buy back 0.5 status and it isn't clipped. eg Your sec status = -5.0034, use a Recruiter tag and it becomes -4.5034, then use 4 x Negotiator tags and it becomes -1.5034.
You can farm the tags, but note that Clone Soldier NPCs are a lot tougher than regular NPCs and the Negotiator and Transporter ones have warp disruptors. Alternatively, Trainer and Recruiter tags cost (currently) around 1-3M each on the market, Negotiator and Transporter tags cost around 20-25M. It costs an additional 3-6M payment to Concord to actually use them. |
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Lena Crews
Universal Sanitation Corporation
6
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Posted - 2016.12.30 14:10:36 -
[11] - Quote
Thanks for all the info guys. It sounds like as long as I avoid podding and take a break to runs some missions every now and then I'll be fine... and even if I mess up it's not something that can't be recovered from. |
Neuntausend
Rens Nursing Home
1287
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Posted - 2016.12.30 15:55:25 -
[12] - Quote
You don't even need to run missions if you just care about your sec status. Whenever you kill rats, the game will register the highest bounty rat you kill every 5 minutes and you will gain sec status accordingly. So, technically, you could kill some dude in lowsec, fly to the next belt, kill a battleship rat and keep going. Often times you will also encounter pilots who are either criminals or suspect flagged, and you won't get a sec status hit for those anyway. As long as you don't pod, sec status is really not an issue. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1806
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Posted - 2016.12.30 16:01:11 -
[13] - Quote
Lena Crews wrote:Thanks for all the info guys. It sounds like as long as I avoid podding and take a break to runs some missions every now and then I'll be fine... and even if I mess up it's not something that can't be recovered from. Standings can always be recovered if you are willing to grind some PvE.
I have no experience with recovering sec status but a simple move to null sec should fix it. However if you just do some belt ratting while you are hunting for targets you potentially could stay positive.
One thing that I would like to point out is that standing gains are a percentage of your distance from perfect so the lower that you are the faster that you can recover. |
Memphis Baas
2615
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Posted - 2016.12.31 03:58:35 -
[14] - Quote
It's not hard to recover; been running level 4 combat missions on a character for about a week (2 hours a day), and went from 2.3 to 3.1 sec. status from killing the NPCs. Used T1 battleship with T1 weapons and with skills at 3, so the missions took a while and I was casual about running them (I looted and salvaged too).
You can probably cut the time in half if you blitz. |
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2364
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Posted - 2016.12.31 18:42:41 -
[15] - Quote
Also with standings and sec status the lower you are the bigger the boost for completing a mission or killing a rat. And if you don't pod people your sec won't go down very much also I'm not exactly sure how sec status and the new crimewatch interact.
You get a sec update ever 5 mins for the biggest rat you kill, you might not want to blitz in some cases. A mission like recon 1 of 3 is really good for sec as it has almost all top bounty BS that give a lot of sec, if you use something like an ishtar and drop light/medium drones you will kill one every 5 mins and can afk and get good sec increases.
for standings imo it is pretty easy to grind those, just well its something of a grind. blitz missions for the corp standings and combat storylines are good for faction standings. I usually just ignore mats for war and then go out in an interceptor to do them
@ChainsawPlankto
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Major Trant
Mass Collapse It Must Be Jelly Cause Jam Don't Shake
1560
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Posted - 2017.01.03 11:56:36 -
[16] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:You don't even need to run missions if you just care about your sec status. Whenever you kill rats, the game will register the highest bounty rat you kill every 5 minutes and you will gain sec status accordingly. So, technically, you could kill some dude in lowsec, fly to the next belt, kill a battleship rat and keep going. Often times you will also encounter pilots who are either criminals or suspect flagged, and you won't get a sec status hit for those anyway. As long as you don't pod, sec status is really not an issue. It isn't too difficult to manage your sec status, but it isn't this easy.
Killing one NPC BS rat doesn't negate one attack on a player. You will gain something like 0.0015 to 0.0022 sec status per BS rat depending on it's bounty. So it will take about 10 BS, but in low sec the BS aren't that common, perhaps one per 8 belts with a maximum bounty of about 1M. Although you do get a good BS sized bounty and sec status gain from Clone Soldier Cruisers which spawn on average in about 1 in 20 belts. Trouble is you could spend 10 minutes searching 20 belts without success, then get two BS in consecutive belts and the lower one won't count as it is in the same tick (only one sec status gain per 5 minutes).
In short trying to rat up your sec status in low sec belts is pretty inefficient and tedious. You are much better off ratting up your sec status in null or doing high sec L4 missions or incursions. |
Dupard Lemmont
Aliastra Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2017.01.03 12:27:15 -
[17] - Quote
https://eveinfo.net/wiki/inde~673.htm
Lower sec status of system = lower penalty.
Killing a rat battleship npc in a level 4 security mission will give an increase of 0,14% which equals: 0.014 sec status increase. Which occurs as people have noted every 5 minutes.
So.. if you kill a ship in a lets say 0.4 security system - you will take a base hit of 0.3. - This means you will have to grind NPC rat battleships in level 4 missions for about 2 hours per ship you agress and kill in that system.
However, if you move to a 0.1 security system - you will take a base hit of around 0.1. - This means you will have to grind NPC rat battleships in level 4 missions for about 35 minutes per ship kill.
Grinding NPC rats is remediation of your bank account and your "sin" account
If you move to nullsec, you can just kill whatever the hell you want.
Learning PVP solo can be a bit hard. - Check out Spectre Fleet. They're an NPSI community that welcomes newbro's. You just install mumble, set up your overview, buy the doctrine ship and jump into a random fleet - no questions asked. - Also you could consider applying to EVE University. They teach PVP. There are also great teachers in EVE Uni who teach small-gang or solo PVP. But it's considered more "advanced stuff". I enjoyed easing into PVP from doing PVP roams with the Uni. |
Tyrana McBitch
Lisnave Spaceship Samurai
27
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Posted - 2017.01.03 12:56:21 -
[18] - Quote
I would like to make a suggestion. If you can get yourself into a 0.0 corporation/alliance. you wont take any sec hit what so ever. 0.0 Is now full of alpha clones that are willing to test your PvP.
You can move your home station to one of their systems & go from there. If you train the skill Informorph psychology to 1 you can leave a jump clone in highsec & go back and forth as you please. Also I think a lot of the alliances are giving out free ships these days. So you can make the most of it. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the posing meat Snuffed Out
3833
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Posted - 2017.01.03 13:22:18 -
[19] - Quote
always pod players, the pods in lowsec can be worth billions
Alliance Logo Design Service
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Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel
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Major Trant
Mass Collapse It Must Be Jelly Cause Jam Don't Shake
1560
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Posted - 2017.01.03 13:25:51 -
[20] - Quote
Dupard Lemmont wrote:https://eveinfo.net/wiki/inde~673.htm
Both agressing and killing a ship gives each separate security status decline. Agressing gives far less... This information is pre-crimewatch at least 3 years out of date.
You no longer get seperate sec hits for aggressing and killing. That was the old system. It is now aggression only.
You no longer get a 15 minute per system tick when ratting, That was the old system. It is now a global 5 minute tick.
It definitely isn't 0.014 gain per BS, 0.0022 is typical of a decent BS, I've trashed and ratted up my sec status loads of times. |
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Lena Crews
Universal Sanitation Corporation
23
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Posted - 2017.01.03 13:42:12 -
[21] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:always pod players, the pods in lowsec can be worth billions
Can you explain this?
I understand how it can COST the other player billions if they have enough stuff plugged in to their head... but I can't get any of that... right? |
Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
292
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Posted - 2017.01.03 14:16:43 -
[22] - Quote
Lena Crews wrote:Lan Wang wrote:always pod players, the pods in lowsec can be worth billions Can you explain this? I understand how it can COST the other player billions if they have enough stuff plugged in to their head... but I can't get any of that... right? Nope, no money for you. It just looks good on your killboard. Might earn you some tears though.
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
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Lan Wang
Knights of the posing meat Snuffed Out
3833
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Posted - 2017.01.03 14:37:19 -
[23] - Quote
Lena Crews wrote:Lan Wang wrote:always pod players, the pods in lowsec can be worth billions Can you explain this? I understand how it can COST the other player billions if they have enough stuff plugged in to their head... but I can't get any of that... right?
it kinda hurts to lose a billion isk pod and you never know who is too drunk to warp it out
some people who pvp use the isk kill amount to determine if your ship has killed more than its worth before it dies
Alliance Logo Design Service
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Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3257
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Posted - 2017.01.03 14:50:32 -
[24] - Quote
Regarding sec status ... the easiest way I found are "transporter" tags, either hunt the clone soldiers (gives an extra sec boost for killing, and nice bounty) or buy and hand them in at your next DED or Concord office. With those you can keep your sec status just above -2.0 for free highsec travel, everything higher is wasted ISK/effort. Be careful only with "illegal" podding.
BTW, transporter clones in 0.2 lowsec don't point only web.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Black Locust
Black Flag CommonWealth Fidelas Constans
9
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Posted - 2017.01.04 16:52:43 -
[25] - Quote
Most point covered really well by others, only thing I would add is, while you are not going to pod because of the extra sec status hit, make sure you scram the pod and ransom the pilot, they don't know you have no intention of podding them! |
Major Trant
Mass Collapse It Must Be Jelly Cause Jam Don't Shake
1562
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Posted - 2017.01.05 10:42:10 -
[26] - Quote
Black Locust wrote:Most point covered really well by others, only thing I would add is, while you are not going to pod because of the extra sec status hit, make sure you scram the pod and ransom the pilot, they don't know you have no intention of podding them! Scraming the pod is aggression, so you will get the same big sec hit whether or not you kill them too. |
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
636
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Posted - 2017.01.05 11:34:14 -
[27] - Quote
additional info on security status
Just Add Water
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