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Salvos Rhoska
1955
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Posted - 2017.01.16 19:09:51 -
[361] - Quote
Maekchu wrote: I don't really care enough to sit down and read a study to solve an internet argument :D
But as far as I've understood from this thread, it sounds like you and Techos are arguing about the studies methodology and interpretation of the conclusion. Which are just opinions anyway and not hard facts.
Then your whining is irrelevant, misinformed and without concern.
Bye!
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Salvos Rhoska
1955
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Posted - 2017.01.16 19:11:21 -
[362] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:You just told someone with a PhD, something you earn by expanding the total sum of human knowledge, that they've never completed a real study.
That's not just insulting, it's arrogant, pretentious, and downright ********. In a nutshell, typical Salvos Rhoska on a good day, as dumb as ever.
1) Lol, where did I say he has not completed a real study? Nowhere! :D
2) Ad-hominem insults. Reported.
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
606
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Posted - 2017.01.16 19:12:58 -
[363] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Then your whining is irrelevant, misinformed and without concern.
Bye!
Narh, I just commented that law and psychology does not give you qualifications within statistics. It's basic knowledge, so I can still comment on that.
But someone else (hint hint: you) said that a PhD does not require the completion of a real study.
So who is the misinformed here? Anyway, at this point I'll give you the credit that you are a troll. I don't believe you can be this stupid. |
Salvos Rhoska
1955
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Posted - 2017.01.16 19:13:32 -
[364] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:You just told someone with a PhD, something you earn by expanding the total sum of human knowledge, that they've never completed a real study.
That's not just insulting, it's arrogant, pretentious, and downright ********. In a nutshell, typical Salvos Rhoska on a good day, as dumb as ever.
Nowhere did I say he has not completed his studies :D
What a fallacy.
"as dumb as ever." Reported for insulting and disrespectful conduct towards another poster.
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
606
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Posted - 2017.01.16 19:14:13 -
[365] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:[1) Lol, where did I say he has not completed a real study? Nowhere! :D
Salvos Rhoska wrote:More than you. I have completed real studies, unlike you.
And my studies specifically involved scientific method and statistical methods/analysis. |
Salvos Rhoska
1955
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Posted - 2017.01.16 19:21:08 -
[366] - Quote
Maekchu wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:[1) Lol, where did I say he has not completed a real study? Nowhere! :D Salvos Rhoska wrote:More than you. I have completed real studies, unlike you.
And my studies specifically involved scientific method and statistical methods/analysis.
That was before Shae claimed to have a PhD in chemistry.
You are conflating and misrepresenting the sequence in the discussion.
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1404
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Posted - 2017.01.16 19:22:34 -
[367] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:1) Lol, where did I say he has not completed a real study? Nowhere! :D I found it quite funny. Nothing to worry about. It's here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6798021#post6798021
More than you. I have completed real studies, unlike you.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1404
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Posted - 2017.01.16 19:23:48 -
[368] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Maekchu wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:[1) Lol, where did I say he has not completed a real study? Nowhere! :D Salvos Rhoska wrote:More than you. I have completed real studies, unlike you.
And my studies specifically involved scientific method and statistical methods/analysis. That was before Shae claimed to have a PhD in chemistry. You are conflating and misrepresenting the sequence in the discussion. Nope.
I outlined my background in post 344.
Your claim is in post 353.
There certainly seems to now be some misrepresentation, but I hope it's really just a lack of attention to detail and not deliberate lies.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Salvos Rhoska
1955
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Posted - 2017.01.16 19:24:28 -
[369] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:More than you. I have completed real studies, unlike you.
You haven't proven that.
You also haven't answered to my question regarding the relevance of Techos' conclusions on the study. This corroborate that you are infact not a scientist.
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
606
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Posted - 2017.01.16 19:25:54 -
[370] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Maekchu wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:[1) Lol, where did I say he has not completed a real study? Nowhere! :D Salvos Rhoska wrote:More than you. I have completed real studies, unlike you.
And my studies specifically involved scientific method and statistical methods/analysis. That was before Shae claimed to have a PhD in chemistry. You are conflating and misrepresenting the sequence in the discussion. Was just about to point out your failure, but Shae beat me to it.
I wonder who is misrepresenting the sequence in the discussion now. But it's funny to see you trying to dig yourself out of this hole :D |
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1404
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Posted - 2017.01.16 19:25:56 -
[371] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:More than you. I have completed real studies, unlike you. You haven't proven that. Haven't proven what?
If we want to both go to proof, I'm happy with that. It'll require us both to put our proof though, because so far I see no proof in anything you have said either.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Salvos Rhoska
1955
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Posted - 2017.01.16 19:26:52 -
[372] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:If we want to both go to proof, I'm happy with that. It'll require us both to put our proof though, because so far I see no proof in anything you have said either.
All the while ignoring my question.
As a claimed scientist, do you find Techos' conclusions from the study as valid?
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Salvos Rhoska
1955
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Posted - 2017.01.16 19:28:59 -
[373] - Quote
Maekchu wrote:Was just about to point out your failure, but Shae beat me to it.
I wonder who is misrepresenting the sequence in the discussion now. But it's funny to see you trying to dig yourself out of this hole :D
I know my studies are real.
I have seen no evidence of Shaes claims.
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1404
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Posted - 2017.01.16 19:34:10 -
[374] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Maekchu wrote:Was just about to point out your failure, but Shae beat me to it.
I wonder who is misrepresenting the sequence in the discussion now. But it's funny to see you trying to dig yourself out of this hole :D I know my studies are real. Unfortunately your understanding of timelines seems lacking.
My evidence is coming. Just getting my PhD out now and scanning it.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
606
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Posted - 2017.01.16 19:34:39 -
[375] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Maekchu wrote:Was just about to point out your failure, but Shae beat me to it.
I wonder who is misrepresenting the sequence in the discussion now. But it's funny to see you trying to dig yourself out of this hole :D I know my studies are real. I have seen no evidence of Shaes claims. You've presented the same amount of evidence as Shae. We don't know whether you actually have the background you claim, nor do we know whether Shae has the background he/she claims. Therefore your argument "I know my studies are real" is irrelevant. In general, the whole debate you guys are having is of little relevance, since it's the ******* internet.
What we do know, is that you've stated that a PhD does not constitute a real study. That is funny and worth pursuing further :D
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Salvos Rhoska
1955
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Posted - 2017.01.16 19:38:03 -
[376] - Quote
Maekchu wrote:What we do know, is that you've stated that a PhD does not constitute a real study. That is funny and worth pursuing further :D
Reading back through the thread, I see that it was intended to be addressed to you, not to Shea.
I failed the copy/paste and addressed my response to him, instead of you.
Its that simple.
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
606
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Posted - 2017.01.16 19:45:42 -
[377] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Maekchu wrote:What we do know, is that you've stated that a PhD does not constitute a real study. That is funny and worth pursuing further :D
Reading back through the thread, I see that it was intended to be addressed to you, not to Shea. I failed the copy/paste and addressed my response to him, instead of you. Its that simple. Of course you did Salvos :D
But if you want to bend it that way, then I'd say we have done approx. the same amount of research papers. You have a 3 years of law and 1 year of psychology. I have finished an economics bachelor (3 years) and finishing a bachelors in computer science (2 years).
So how is it, that you have done some "real" studies? That hole is getting deeper and deeper. :D
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Salvos Rhoska
1955
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Posted - 2017.01.16 19:47:07 -
[378] - Quote
Maekchu wrote: So how is it, that you have done some "real" studies? That hole is getting deeper and deeper. :D
I actually learned what was taught, whereas you apparently havent if you try to defend Techos' false conclusions from the study.
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
606
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Posted - 2017.01.16 19:51:34 -
[379] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Maekchu wrote: So how is it, that you have done some "real" studies? That hole is getting deeper and deeper. :D
I actually learned what was taught, whereas you apparently havent if you try to defend Techos' false conclusions from the study. Never defended anyone :D
If anything, then I've actually defended you, since I stated that you are arguing over opinions and you both reserve the rights to those.
What I did accuse you of, is that you maybe shouldn't consider your opinion facts.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27345
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Posted - 2017.01.16 20:04:22 -
[380] - Quote
Handbags at dawn?
*settles in for some light entertainment*
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
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Jacques d'Orleans
2867
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Posted - 2017.01.16 20:08:28 -
[381] - Quote
Jonah, you owe me a beer, because mine just left mostly thru my nose!
Have you seen Robocop? Many people don't know that it's actually a documentary.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27345
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Posted - 2017.01.16 20:13:05 -
[382] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:Jonah, you owe me a beer, because mine just left mostly thru my nose! There's a Monty Python sketch for every occasion
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1408
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Posted - 2017.01.16 20:19:05 -
[383] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:I have seen no evidence of Shaes claims. https://puu.sh/toBgz/65608f4e76.jpg https://puu.sh/toBKa/e8b28f20b9.jpg
Posted because it is very easy in a forum to claim things about RL that aren't actually true and to claim knowledge and expertise you don't really have.
I spent a lot of years studying to be on firm ground when it comes to understanding science (and appreciating how little I really know at all).
Identifying information covered.
What proof of expertise in science and statistics do you have Salvos?
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Giaus Felix
Hedion University Amarr Empire
280
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Posted - 2017.01.16 20:28:20 -
[384] - Quote
^^ Opening salvo detected, can the target tank the alpha or will he explode?
Place your bets please.
I came for the spaceships, I stayed for the tears.
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
8716
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Posted - 2017.01.16 20:29:01 -
[385] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Maekchu wrote:What we do know, is that you've stated that a PhD does not constitute a real study. That is funny and worth pursuing further :D
Reading back through the thread, I see that it was intended to be addressed to you, not to Shea. I failed the copy/paste and addressed my response to him, instead of you. Its that simple.
Bullshit. The 'quote' button is pretty impossible to miss, even for a dumb dumb like you.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5749
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Posted - 2017.01.16 20:41:21 -
[386] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:The study does not differentiate between, or investigate, whether the new character is created by an existing vet, a returning noob, or a brand new first time player. Obviously, the alt of a vet wont care about being destroyed, a returning noob probably wont care, and a true newcomer is dependent on circumstances. If there is a corroborating study on what the % of new characters are created by the above categories of players, that would inform interpretation of these results, but there isnt.
Actually it did. There is part where CCP Rise (?) says that alt accounts were not included. Maybe a few slipped through, but it sounds like they made an effort to weed them out.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:The study also does not specifically investigate whether a character/player left the game due to early aggression. They may have left due to other reasons.
Correct, but the correlation is exactly the opposite of what one would have expected:
Initial hypothesis/assumption/belief:
Ganked => leave the game early. Not ganked => plays the longest.
What is actually happening in game:
Ganked => plays the longest. Not ganked => leaves the game early.
The results were exactly the opposite of what many people assumed. The data and the results should automatically make one rethink the initial causal relationships.
Let me put it this way. A researcher comes up, intuitively or based on a theory, a causal pathway for something. He then goes and gets data and checks it against his initial hypothesis/beliefs. The data are exactly counter to what his hypothesis/beliefs are. The research should then re-examine his intuition/theory. Making up excuses to not do this is bad. Hell CCP Rise and his team were surprised just at the number of new players ganked in their sample. And then they were surprised again by the fact that those in the ganked group stayed with the game the longest.
Quote:So what can we learn from this? That it is really important to validate our assumptions. That it is very different to guess what is happening to people and that we can learn alot by looking at what actually happens in the game and trying to understand that even though it can be pretty diffcult to figure out.-- CCP Rise
Salvos Rhoska wrote:I dont expect the uninitiated into scientific method and statistical analysis to understand, but that exactly is where your deficiency in those capacities shows itself as bias, by concluding what is not represented in the data, in favor of your own personal interest.
You are a hack, a dilettante, trying to misrepresent data, dishonestly, towards your own bias and preference. Furthermore, you are projecting your own shortcomings onto everyone else, as if you where not (demonstrably) committing it yourself. Suddenly its "everyone", and not just you, which infact is the case.
I dont expect you to understand that. You cant. You are blind to the extent of your own bias, and because you are vulnerable on the methods of statistical analysis due to your ignorance of that, you project that onto others to avoid your own culpability.
Whatever. You offer no substantive criticism at all.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5750
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Posted - 2017.01.16 21:12:39 -
[387] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:You're a trainee/student nurse right? So aside from that, what are your qualifications as a scientist and in statistics? I am currently a nursing student. Previous to that I have attended at university 3yrs of law and 1yr of psychology. all of which (including my current nursing studies) involve courses in statistical analysis, structure/method/validity/reliability of studies, and understanding of the intricacies of the scientific method. Tbh, the extent of Techos misrepresentation of the study in question results, does not require more than a good high-school education anyways in-order to refute and recognize as such. How about you? 3yrs law and 1 yr psych make you an expert in science and statistics. Hahaha. No work experience to speak of at all applying any of this "expertise"? As for me, not that it matters as I'm not claiming the expertise here, nor misrepresenting my knowledge and incorrectly arguing rubbish to push a point, I have a PhD in Chemistry. I work in a lab and since completing a post doc 7 years ago, have worked in a lab every day. Sadly they days I spend most of my time managing other scientists and not near enough time on the bench doing science.
Well, if we are going to get into a CV **** measuring contest.
- I studied economics at UCLA for undergraduate.
- I completed 3 years of a PhD program (economics) at the George Washington University (I took quals for micro, macro, public economics and econometrics).
- Spent 3 years working in one of the research divisions at the U.S. Dept. of Labor Statistics
- Spent 19 years doing forecasting and statistical analysis in private industry.
- I also taught myself measure theory and Bayesian statistical analysis.
Currently reading Elinor Ostrom's book, Governing the Commons, the Evolution of Institutions for Collective Action. Before that I re-read the Road to Serfdom by F. A. Hayek and also the article "Uncertainty, Evolution and Economic Theory" by Armen Alchian which was published in the Journal of Political Economy. And also this fascinating article using Bayesian methods to test for possible racial bias in traffic stops, "The Problem of Infra-marginality in Outcome Tests for Discrimination".
Am I now allowed to talk about statistics?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1410
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Posted - 2017.01.16 21:16:40 -
[388] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Am I now allowed to talk about statistics? Apparently not. Salvos took a class you know.
Well maybe he did. We don't really know.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Jacques d'Orleans
2871
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Posted - 2017.01.16 21:18:48 -
[389] - Quote
Hey guys, do you think you can get that argument over another 5-6 pages, I just ordered me a Pizza and a Six Pack.
Have you seen Robocop? Many people don't know that it's actually a documentary.
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1410
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Posted - 2017.01.16 21:21:36 -
[390] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:Hey guys, do you think you can get that argument over another 5-6 pages, I just ordered me a Pizza and a Six Pack. You can get beer delivered? Damn.
Actually, I'm predicting this thread will finally be put out of it's misery. The actual topic was left behind a long time ago.
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