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Lena Crews
Universal Sanitation Corporation
30
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Posted - 2017.01.10 14:59:50 -
[31] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Sugar Smacks wrote:Agondray wrote:Sugar Smacks wrote:While checking my standings on my other character I happened to notice last month at the end of December I took a massive hit to a NPC corp. I got literally a -75% for pod killing a flashing yellow criminal in hi sec. Now I am not talking about sec status loss, it was unaffected as he was flashing yellow. But to the corp in question my standing went from 0 to -7.50 in 1 transaction due to this.
Has this ever happened to anyone else? Has anyone ever lost standing to NPC corps for killing players?
I feel you some one made the same comment and I looked at my standings and I was nearly shoot on site for some of the npc corps due to shooting flashy red people, ive spent the better part of 3 weeks running lvl 1s to keep form being sos and such just to lower some empire standings because they kept giving me anti empire storylines or multiple antiempire missions where I was running out of agents. If a UPS driver breaks in your house and you shoot him dead, it is very legal. The UPS company wont be able to retaliate by getting you cumulative negative standings either. In EvE if you defend yourself from a criminal you are penalized. It took until now to notice this was a problem? Great programming, I don't think I will miss it on LoL. Your current UPS example does not apply in all countries. You also shot a flashy yellow and not a flashy red. This guy was not criminal but suspect. The retaliation part is also irrelevant to real life as corporation in EVE have rights which does not exist in real life.
Well... I wasn't expecting my UPS driver analogy to be taken this far... but what the heck let's keep at it.
A suspect isn't a criminal (yet). In this case the UPS driver walked up to your house and started looking in the windows/checking under the mat for a key/checking doors to see if their unlocked. Is this suspicious? Yeah. He might be looking to rob you. Or he might be looking at where to stash the package he's supposed to drop off. Killing him for that is going to be on you.
Fact of the matter is UPS isn't going to be too pleased with you for killing their guy. I'm still not seeing standing loss as a problem.
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Sugar Smacks
State War Academy Caldari State
65
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Posted - 2017.01.10 15:29:29 -
[32] - Quote
In this analogy of the UPS driver the driver would not be flashy yellow, flashy yellow would indicate he commited a crime, like stealing. If he walks into my house and starts stealing and say I live in Texas and I shoot him dead, I committed no crime.
Now I know where you live this could be different but that's the point the law is different everywhere and a very large portion of the world would agree you have the right to "stand your ground". It is not like he is innocent we all agree he was not that, but to say others deserve some kind of retaliation because he commited a crime to begin with isn't logical or have any aspect of realism.
In my analogy the driver has commited a crime, but realistically his corporation has no way for retribution. Sure his company can complain to Concord, but to standing smash me for some retaliation later is dumb. I could see some interpretation if he was innocent but we all agree he wasn't. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
3441
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Posted - 2017.01.10 16:48:26 -
[33] - Quote
Sugar Smacks wrote:If a UPS driver breaks in your house and you shoot him dead, it is very legal. What third-world country was that again?
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
3441
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Posted - 2017.01.10 16:50:09 -
[34] - Quote
Agondray wrote:I feel you some one made the same comment and I looked at my standings and I was nearly shoot on site for some of the npc corps due to shooting flashy red people, ive spent the better part of 3 weeks running lvl 1s to keep form being sos and such just to lower some empire standings because they kept giving me anti empire storylines or multiple antiempire missions where I was running out of agents. Well deserved. Why would you shoot red flashy people if they did nothing to you? It looks like you asked for this.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Lena Crews
Universal Sanitation Corporation
30
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Posted - 2017.01.10 16:57:36 -
[35] - Quote
Sugar Smacks wrote:In this analogy of the UPS driver the driver would not be flashy yellow, flashy yellow would indicate he commited a crime, like stealing. If he walks into my house and starts stealing and say I live in Texas and I shoot him dead, I committed no crime.
Now I know where you live this could be different but that's the point the law is different everywhere and a very large portion of the world would agree you have the right to "stand your ground". It is not like he is innocent we all agree he was not that, but to say others deserve some kind of retaliation because he commited a crime to begin with isn't logical or have any aspect of realism.
In my analogy the driver has commited a crime, but realistically his corporation has no way for retribution. Sure his company can complain to Concord, but to standing smash me for some retaliation later is dumb. I could see some interpretation if he was innocent but we all agree he wasn't.
It's actually a fairly small portion of the world... but that's an aside.
But again... if a UPS driver was taking stuff off your porch and you shot him... UPS would probably still not like you much. They might even refuse to every deliver stuff to your house again.
This isn't about what's legal... you shooting a flashy yellow is "legal" in eve. It's about how the corp feels about you after you perform that action. It may be legal to say... punish a foreign woman in certain countries who's not wearing 'decent' attire. But if that woman is an executive for BP... BP might not react positively toward the entities punishing that woman. The standings would decrease. |
Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
3047
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Posted - 2017.01.10 17:08:12 -
[36] - Quote
Sugar Smacks wrote:In this analogy of the UPS driver the driver would not be flashy yellow, flashy yellow would indicate he commited a crime, like stealing. If he walks into my house and starts stealing and say I live in Texas and I shoot him dead, I committed no crime.
Now I know where you live this could be different but that's the point the law is different everywhere and a very large portion of the world would agree you have the right to "stand your ground". It is not like he is innocent we all agree he was not that, but to say others deserve some kind of retaliation because he commited a crime to begin with isn't logical or have any aspect of realism.
In my analogy the driver has commited a crime, but realistically his corporation has no way for retribution. Sure his company can complain to Concord, but to standing smash me for some retaliation later is dumb. I could see some interpretation if he was innocent but we all agree he wasn't.
Flashy yellow can mean a lot of things but none of them are a criminal offense by EVE definition. Criminal action in EVE trigger flashed red. Remember, stealing loot in EVE does not make you a criminal. Many things can make you a suspect and none of them are crimes in EVE. The person you shot was not a criminal but a suspect. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5726
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Posted - 2017.01.10 18:29:14 -
[37] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Lena Crews wrote:Is it broken though?
I mean... how many deliveries would you have to do for UPS for them to forgive you for blowing up one of their trucks and killing the driver?
Might be right for that to take a ton of effort to repair that relationship. A real world comparison to a game... FYI, you'll get a standings loss for killing a DCM ship that attacks you. That is, a DCM player warps in and engages you, you respond and in self defense destroy his ship. Congratulations on your standings loss. To keep up with the RL examples: a good number of soldiers hate the soldiers on the other side, even if both are in regulars armies. During WWI machine guns crews were often killed even when they surrendered, as they where hated by the infantry. Even without the hate part, a member of an enemy army will fire on sight on you. In EVE, if you are know to be an enemy of one faction, the members of that faction fire on you as soon as they can. It is only normal. Considering the numbers of NPC corp members that I have "killed", it is only normal for them to fire on sight at me.
My point is that RL examples are kind of stupid in a video game.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries Voxis Accord
127
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Posted - 2017.01.10 19:34:02 -
[38] - Quote
Sugar Smacks wrote:Agondray wrote:Sugar Smacks wrote:While checking my standings on my other character I happened to notice last month at the end of December I took a massive hit to a NPC corp. I got literally a -75% for pod killing a flashing yellow criminal in hi sec. Now I am not talking about sec status loss, it was unaffected as he was flashing yellow. But to the corp in question my standing went from 0 to -7.50 in 1 transaction due to this.
Has this ever happened to anyone else? Has anyone ever lost standing to NPC corps for killing players?
I feel you some one made the same comment and I looked at my standings and I was nearly shoot on site for some of the npc corps due to shooting flashy red people, ive spent the better part of 3 weeks running lvl 1s to keep form being sos and such just to lower some empire standings because they kept giving me anti empire storylines or multiple antiempire missions where I was running out of agents. If a UPS driver breaks in your house and you shoot him dead, it is very legal. The UPS company wont be able to retaliate by getting you cumulative negative standings either. In EvE if you defend yourself from a criminal you are penalized. It took until now to notice this was a problem? Great programming, I don't think I will miss it on LoL.
To reiterate it: Flashy Yellow isn't a criminal, he is a suspect. So let's change you example: if the UPS employee entered your porch to deliver a package and you shot him, claiming self defense on the basis of the "standing your ground" law, you can (maybe) avoid prison, but I suspect that UPS would place you in a "never deliver to this address" list.
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Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries Voxis Accord
127
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Posted - 2017.01.10 19:38:33 -
[39] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Shayla Etherodyne wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Lena Crews wrote:Is it broken though?
I mean... how many deliveries would you have to do for UPS for them to forgive you for blowing up one of their trucks and killing the driver?
Might be right for that to take a ton of effort to repair that relationship. A real world comparison to a game... FYI, you'll get a standings loss for killing a DCM ship that attacks you. That is, a DCM player warps in and engages you, you respond and in self defense destroy his ship. Congratulations on your standings loss. To keep up with the RL examples: a good number of soldiers hate the soldiers on the other side, even if both are in regulars armies. During WWI machine guns crews were often killed even when they surrendered, as they where hated by the infantry. Even without the hate part, a member of an enemy army will fire on sight on you. In EVE, if you are know to be an enemy of one faction, the members of that faction fire on you as soon as they can. It is only normal. Considering the numbers of NPC corp members that I have "killed", it is only normal for them to fire on sight at me. My point is that RL examples are kind of stupid in a video game.
But "no consequence for your acts" is even stupider.
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
8698
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Posted - 2017.01.11 06:38:21 -
[40] - Quote
Lena Crews wrote:Is it broken though?
I mean... how many deliveries would you have to do for UPS for them to forgive you for blowing up one of their trucks and killing the driver?
Might be right for that to take a ton of effort to repair that relationship.
Real world =/= EVE Online.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Etain Darklightner Agittain
Aliastra Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2017.01.11 09:30:57 -
[41] - Quote
Oh goodness, you've got remi involved....
At any rate, the SoE epic arc storyline had me head into Gillette space, went to the where the agent is supposedly located and she wasn't there (or I went to the wrong station. So then I take a look at my standings, seeing as how I read this thread a few days ago and sure enough my standings are low enough to be shoot in sight....
There has got to be a way to get our standings back up with certain factions to at least be neutral. Someone had posted that diplomacy is helpful with this. Should I also skill up the other PR skills as well?
If that is the case I'll have to wait on doing the rest of the epic arc storyline..... |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
3838
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Posted - 2017.01.11 09:36:12 -
[42] - Quote
Etain Darklightner Agittain wrote:Oh goodness, you've got remi involved....
At any rate, the SoE epic arc storyline had me head into Gillette space, went to the where the agent is supposedly located and she wasn't there (or I went to the wrong station. So then I take a look at my standings, seeing as how I read this thread a few days ago and sure enough my standings are low enough to be shoot in sight....
There has got to be a way to get our standings back up with certain factions to at least be neutral. Someone had posted that diplomacy is helpful with this. Should I also skill up the other PR skills as well?
If that is the case I'll have to wait on doing the rest of the epic arc storyline.....
you cant be neutral to factions while also shooting them
Alliance Logo Design Service
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Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2760
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Posted - 2017.01.11 09:38:11 -
[43] - Quote
As a side note, we saw gankers blow up a freighter with all the toons in DCM, we did find that amusing... Sadly for you gankers most AG players kill gankers with their alts and not their main toons, but it is a smart move as always...
I don't mine in space where DCM operates so it has zero impact on me, just so you know...
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
3460
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Posted - 2017.01.11 09:49:52 -
[44] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:As a side note, we saw gankers blow up a freighter with all the toons in DCM, we did find that amusing... Sadly for you gankers most AG players kill gankers with their alts and not their main toons, but it is a smart move as always... I don't mine in space where DCM operates so it has zero impact on me, just so you know... Does it actually reduce standing if the player is criminal? I did some very limited experiments with this on SISI and had the impression it has no effect if the character in question was criminal.
Well it will get interesting once the response fleet learns how to warp, which is if I am not mistaken in the pipeline in some form or another
Remi actually started a thread a while back about how stupid the situation with DCM is. But the carebear collective just ignored the speculations about how this could actually turn on them and told us to just HTFU and adapt.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Etain Darklightner Agittain
Aliastra Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2017.01.11 09:51:52 -
[45] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Etain Darklightner Agittain wrote:Oh goodness, you've got remi involved....
At any rate, the SoE epic arc storyline had me head into Gillette space, went to the where the agent is supposedly located and she wasn't there (or I went to the wrong station. So then I take a look at my standings, seeing as how I read this thread a few days ago and sure enough my standings are low enough to be shoot in sight....
There has got to be a way to get our standings back up with certain factions to at least be neutral. Someone had posted that diplomacy is helpful with this. Should I also skill up the other PR skills as well?
If that is the case I'll have to wait on doing the rest of the epic arc storyline..... you cant be neutral to factions while also shooting them
I don't really shoot them.... well if you count the rats that pop into system then yes.... well crap... so no ratting.
So then players that are a part of npc corps are technically tied into the faction warfare bit?
I can see why any decent SoE drops go for so mucb... this is a pain the ass to do their story arc, as mucb as I enjoy the story..
Hmm maybe just change colors as I do the story for the sake of doing the story... I've also noted that your corps standings can vastly affect your own standings either positively or negatively. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2760
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Posted - 2017.01.11 10:00:03 -
[46] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Dracvlad wrote:As a side note, we saw gankers blow up a freighter with all the toons in DCM, we did find that amusing... Sadly for you gankers most AG players kill gankers with their alts and not their main toons, but it is a smart move as always... I don't mine in space where DCM operates so it has zero impact on me, just so you know... Does it actually reduce standing if the player is criminal? I did some very limited experiments with this on SISI and had the impression it has no effect if the character in question was criminal. Well it will get interesting once the response fleet learns how to warp, which is if I am not mistaken in the pipeline in some form or another Remi actually started a thread a while back about how stupid the situation with DCM is. But the carebear collective just ignored the speculations about how this could actually turn on them and told us to just HTFU and adapt.
Our belief is that once you are criminal it has no affect on standings, but we have not yet confirmed that part on SISI it is on my to do list.
I was in that thread, actually many of us want actions to have consequences in this game and understand and accept the ramifications, we have made people aware of this and we are sure you evil people will find fun ways to use this, I can think of quite a few...
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5735
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Posted - 2017.01.11 10:11:59 -
[47] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
EDIT: As people take my words out of context so often, it is prudent for me to say that when I refer to evil people here in this post it is a compliment as in evil devious people and not a definition of anything against the player or anything else that could be used to define or belittle them.
What an a--hole.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
18320
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Posted - 2017.01.11 10:22:58 -
[48] - Quote
Sugar Smacks wrote:While checking my standings on my other character I happened to notice last month at the end of December I took a massive hit to a NPC corp. I got literally a -75% for pod killing a flashing yellow criminal in hi sec. Now I am not talking about sec status loss, it was unaffected as he was flashing yellow. But to the corp in question my standing went from 0 to -7.50 in 1 transaction due to this.
Has this ever happened to anyone else? Has anyone ever lost standing to NPC corps for killing players?
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."
Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
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Djsaeu
Xx-illuminati-xX
37
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Posted - 2017.01.11 12:02:02 -
[49] - Quote
There is a way to raise your standing , go kill some clone soldier rats in low sec. Then take the tags that drop to a Concord station and trade them in. Doing that will raise your security level. Get the right tags and you can go from a -9.8 back to a 10 if you want. I know this because at one point I was at a -9.3 and got back to a 3.0 with them. There is a fee that goes with it but I do not remember what it is.
My bad, I got off topic. Sorry bout that/ |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
3838
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Posted - 2017.01.11 12:03:46 -
[50] - Quote
Djsaeu wrote:There is a way to raise your standing , go kill some clone soldier rats in low sec. Then take the tags that drop to a Concord station and trade them in. Doing that will raise your security level. Get the right tags and you can go from a -9.8 back to a 10 if you want. I know this because at one point I was at a -9.3 and got back to a 3.0 with them. There is a fee that goes with it but I do not remember what it is.
faction standings not sec status
Alliance Logo Design Service
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Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel
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ISD Fractal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1322
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Posted - 2017.01.11 13:47:10 -
[51] - Quote
Quote:4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated. I have removed a post for violating the above rule.
ISD Fractal
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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witchking42
UNFRL Fleet Operations
212
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Posted - 2017.01.11 15:53:04 -
[52] - Quote
Just don't pod kill in HIGH or LOW.
Do it all you want in NULL or WH.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
3838
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Posted - 2017.01.11 16:21:11 -
[53] - Quote
witchking42 wrote:Just don't pod kill in HIGH or LOW.
Do it all you want in NULL or WH.
i dont even think this applies to low either, i haven't noticed any faction standing loses when killing pods in lowsec, and ive killed a lot of pods
Alliance Logo Design Service
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Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel
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Lady Ayeipsia
Perkone Caldari State
1307
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Posted - 2017.01.11 16:47:15 -
[54] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:witchking42 wrote:Just don't pod kill in HIGH or LOW.
Do it all you want in NULL or WH.
i dont even think this applies to low either, i haven't noticed any faction standing loses when killing pods in lowsec, and ive killed a lot of pods
This only applies to specific corp standings and you have to kill the pod of a pilot in an NPC corp. For example, podding myself right now would lead to standings loss with Perkone, an NPC corp. Pod killing me a year ago would incur no corp standings loss as I was in a player run corp. |
Dungheap
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2017.01.11 17:01:54 -
[55] - Quote
Sugar Smacks wrote:While checking my standings on my other character I happened to notice last month at the end of December I took a massive hit to a NPC corp. I got literally a -75% for pod killing a flashing yellow criminal in hi sec. Now I am not talking about sec status loss, it was unaffected as he was flashing yellow. But to the corp in question my standing went from 0 to -7.50 in 1 transaction due to this.
Has this ever happened to anyone else? Has anyone ever lost standing to NPC corps for killing players?
yes , i'm still negative to caldari provisions , for killing their flycatcher in AZN-D2 . null sec , he shot first , doesn't matter ...
while players in the 8 npc corp will always be involved in pvp , the standings hit to those corps is mostly meaningless , and i never worried about it , happily killing npc scouts and alts where ever found ..
the npc facwar corps have the same mechanic , and there's people who have boxed themselves in standing-wise by shooting those players . fortunately there's more ways than ever to repair standings , and only the horribly lazy or anal usually complain .
i do think it was a mistake for ccp to make existing npc corp into the mining fleet , so much fuss and preemptive whining could have been avoided . still , the affect on players is minimal , and the unlikely event an npc mining fleet actually cockblocks your pvp would likely result in a better story than just another killmail..
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
3838
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Posted - 2017.01.12 13:42:55 -
[56] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Lan Wang wrote:witchking42 wrote:Just don't pod kill in HIGH or LOW.
Do it all you want in NULL or WH.
i dont even think this applies to low either, i haven't noticed any faction standing loses when killing pods in lowsec, and ive killed a lot of pods This only applies to specific corp standings and you have to kill the pod of a pilot in an NPC corp. For example, podding myself right now would lead to standings loss with Perkone, an NPC corp. Pod killing me a year ago would incur no corp standings loss as I was in a player run corp.
being a smartbomber a few jumps from jita, ive killed a lot of npc player pods but still only noticed a sec status loss, ill double check but none of my standings are bad towards npc corps
Alliance Logo Design Service
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Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel
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Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries Voxis Accord
127
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Posted - 2017.01.12 15:06:20 -
[57] - Quote
"Because of the tax rebate for non capsuleer mining corps DCM has decided to split in 2 different sister corps: - DCM incorporated (or incpsulated ) is the capsuleer corp - DC Mining is the non capsuleer corp"
Keep the players in DCM incorporated, move the NPC ships in DC Mining. Problem solved. We even have a in world reason for the split. |
Etain Darklightner Agittain
Aliastra Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2017.01.13 16:43:03 -
[58] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:"Because of the tax rebate for non capsuleer mining corps DCM has decided to split in 2 different sister corps: - DCM incorporated (or incpsulated ) is the capsuleer corp - DC Mining is the non capsuleer corp" Keep the players in DCM incorporated, move the NPC ships in DC Mining. Problem solved. We even have a in world reason for the split.
So all we have to NOT do is pod the individual player who is affiliated with an npc corp. Easily enough done. |
Princess Adhara
University of Caille Gallente Federation
105
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Posted - 2017.01.13 21:23:53 -
[59] - Quote
Standings are feelings |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3330
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Posted - 2017.01.14 16:05:34 -
[60] - Quote
witchking42 wrote:Just don't pod kill in HIGH or LOW.
Do it all you want in NULL or WH.
No, it does not matter where you pod a player in an NPC corp, you will get the standing hit with said corp regardless of space you where in. What you avoid in null and WH is the security status reduction in case of "illegal" aggression, but this is not the topic here.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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