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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.16 16:05:00 -
[1]
OK. In the cosmos systems there are certain permanent sites for carrying out archaeology or hacking. Sitting in one of these often induces allegations of "farming" from other players...but as far as I can tell, they are DESIGNED to be farmed. these complexes are the ONLY source of some of the material required for making the Cosmos blueprints. Since the output of the sites is random, one cannot simply got to the site and hack/dig for whatever one wants...so that means you do all the Cosmos missions, build up the supply of BPCs...and then go and farm the complexes for a few hours.
The allegations of farming are entirely correct...but as far as I can tell, it is farming by design...would CCP care to comment?
Secondly...lag in said complexes is TERRIBLE, and it is again, ENTIRELY by design. Spawn rate of the defending NPCs is hellish fast, and the amount of wrecks and loot cans which build up will easily reach 100's in mere minutes. With no time to collect them in between defence and hacking/digging, they are simply left to accumulate.
Take in isolation this might be bearable...but it is also true that ALL the sites are positively DRIPPING with "eyecandy"...and in some cases, heavily animated eye candy at that. I am all for EVE to look pretty, but when it starts to impact performance this heavily, it goes too far.
Or does it?
I am starting to believe that CCP have seen the initial problem of "farming by design", and have acted to minimise it by CREATING "lag by design". To be honest, sitting in one of these sites trying to get your parts for manufacture becomes just TOO painful after a while because of the lag...I think CCP know that, and it's part of the control to limit "over-farming".
Would be nice if someone can confirm.
If not...
Stop guards in these complexes from dropping wrecks Take out some (all) of the eye candy ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.04.17 01:01:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Nyphur on 17/04/2007 00:59:29
Farming isn't really the issue, the issue is the way it's being farmed. I used to farm there all the time, but I would do it on my own by flying between the containers in a certain order (to maximise efficiency). This doesn't stop other players hacking the same cans I am using. What's going on in Deltole is that every time anything spawns in the Analysed containers, it is taken within a split second. Keep in mind that these cans are the only source of Stolen Formulas decryptors and they are the can with highest chance of having the Encryption skillbook. I know this for a fact, I've been hacking there on and off for over 6 months, maybe a year.
The issue isn't that people are farming, it's that they're denying the resource to the rest of eve. Some people are even remote repairing the scrambling npcs, warping out to dump aggro on people, declaring war on each other and suicide ganking each other in competition for this resource. Wars fought over a resource like this would be fun but the people farming the areas drop to npc corps for safety. Demand is currently high enough to make it more profitable and a more steady income than running 10/10 complexes in 0.0. It's simply bad design on CCP's part, the supply of decryptors comes from almost entirely one source that can be safely camped without major risk.
I've said it before a lot of this crap started, decryptors need to be dropped in the tens and hundreds in exploration complexes to balance it with the rate at which they can be attained in empire. The same goes for the skillbooks and if you could get data interface bpcs in there, I'm sure people would be complaining about low drop rates of interface bpcs from exploration too. Plentiful or not, you get dozens more skillbooks and thousands more decryptors per week farming that perfectly safe little complex in 0.5 than you could every get from exploration in 0.0. The risk versus reward scheme eve employs has broken in this instance, which is why there are a lot of complaints.
The complexes ARE designed to be farmed, but they were not designed with invention in mind. They are not sufficient for invention materials and the whole system needs rethought, starting with moving all the hacking and archeology in the empire cosmos constellations to the exploration system, just like is done in 0.0.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.17 08:30:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Nyphur The issue isn't that people are farming, it's that they're denying the resource to the rest of eve.
I may be being a bit thick, but how do you farm something WITHOUT denying it to someone else? If I get it, you don't.
I do however see the problem with hacking...I am sure you know what it is and I am not going to mention it here exactly, but there IS a method by which you can know for sure what is in a certain container even before you hack it. That is WRONG and is in my opinion an exploit, and should be very easy to fix. If anyone at CCP is unaware of this, please contact me and I will give you the details.
However, even with that fixed, I don't see the situation changing that much. the ony thing I could suggest is to widen the variability of what is found in what container...most of them only have a choice of two or three results, so everyone makes a beeline for the containers they know will have the "good stuff"...spreading it around a bit more might make the system a little fairer. ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.04.17 23:51:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Grey Area
Originally by: Nyphur The issue isn't that people are farming, it's that they're denying the resource to the rest of eve.
I may be being a bit thick, but how do you farm something WITHOUT denying it to someone else? If I get it, you don't.
It's a matter of fair chance. Two people hacking the same can have the same chance to get it open first, give or take a bit for skills. One person parked at a can, making sure they keep it hacked permanantly and emptying it within half a second of something spawning is effective, but has an unfair chance of getting the item compared to someone who is hacking normally as is intended.
The difference is that normal hacking entails one person hacking multiple cans while the unfair farming method entails multiple people (possibly alts of one person) hacking one can each, giving a 100% success rate but requiring a few more people. Since there are only 4 valuable cans, it's unfair to have a system that allows a 100% success rate for dedicating 1 person per can to the task. I've tried to compete with them by doing the same as they are doing, they're too fast (which is why people tend to yell macro).
While I can see where you're coming from, I don't like your solution. It simply means more cans that need camped, it doesn't do anything to alleviate the demand or the ability to camp. I re-iterate that the highsec cosmos hacking complexes need to be moved to exploration since their produce is as valuable as it is.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
OneSock
PLuSQuAMPERFEkT iNc
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Posted - 2007.04.18 10:35:00 -
[5]
I agree, all this farmable stuff should be moved into exploration plexes.
The Cosmos plexs should be less predictable and only drop cosmos mission related items. Infact I would also implement a traffic control system so that any player could only activate the entry gate say once per week, or would trade LPs for an entry pass from a cosmos agent.
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Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2007.04.20 09:33:00 -
[6]
To put this in perspective, I got about a billion in goods (two skillbooks, a handful of Stolen Formulas, and two dozen Symbiotic Figures) from this complex in about 8-12 hours spread across several days (*). Putting that amount of resources into one small area at such a predicatable rate is a HUGE mistake on CCPs side and needs to be rectified, in other words "nerfed". Yes, I know that the prices are player-made, but CCP should have the experience by now to have predicted this price hike.
Having this complex give that easy access to these decryptors make the whole exploration system laughable. Why should you spend hours probing down an elusive complex, fight tough NPCs and lose ships left and right in low sec when you can just grab the same buddies you need to beat the exploration complex and have them hang around in Deltole?
Oh well. I hope that the falling Hulk prices will slowly end the gold rush. I doubt it though since the skill books still remain.
(*) The secret to do this is to live in Europe and go there when the smacking farmers are asleep. Yes, there are times when they are off.
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
Pakalolo
Tha Shiznit
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Posted - 2007.04.20 17:58:00 -
[7]
imo the problem is you can keep the cans open and when something spawns you know it immediately.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.04.20 19:22:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Nyphur Farming isn't really the issue, the issue is the way it's being farmed.
Personally I think farming is precisely the issue. These things should not be farmable at all in any way shape or form.
Never have I seen an MMO where camping a static spawn that drops great loot be a good idea (I shudder at memories of Everwait).
If you want to call doing exploration over and over on the random chance you might get something good "farming" fine but I would not say it is as there is only a chance you will succeed and a chance for others to get the good stuff too.
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Timotheus Siberius
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.27 21:42:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Timotheus Siberius on 27/04/2007 21:39:53 Yeah, watchout for Tophereon in a basilisk healing the npcs from a distance and Gunshot's sudden logoff...
* See you in space! |
Qual
Gallente Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2007.04.29 21:05:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Timotheus Siberius Edited by: Timotheus Siberius on 27/04/2007 21:46:09 Yeah, watchout for Tophereon in a basilisk healing the npcs from a distance and Gunshot's sudden logoff...
In a way the community corrects the easiness of accessing those spawn sites...by attracting such individuals and make the site harder...in a different way :-)
Aiding NPC's should be considered a crime. Criminal tagging would end that behavior real fast.
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
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cptgone
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Posted - 2007.04.30 14:22:00 -
[11]
Cosmos plex lag, and rat repping should indeed be dealt with. (CCP said they're gonna have rat reppers flagged: can we get an ETA please?)
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Iuris Proeliator
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.04.30 16:43:00 -
[12]
I've never had a huge problem with farming, because I come from Everquest, and still play there happily. So, I'm quite used to the "Dig in, set up camp, and pull, pull, pull!" mentality.
But, you CAN do things to mix it up a bit and screw with the farmers, making them WORK for it, and making it harder to perma-farm without effort.
Change 1: No bookmarks WITHIN the complex. The reason being:
Change 2: Random respawn locations for the farmable items in question. A good set too. Maybe make the can "Float" through space too so it moves around over time. Make the players chase it. Make it be who gets there first.
The reason for the bookmark change is so they can't just set a bunch of bookmarks and attempt to warp around or always have a bookmark near a spawn site.
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Roche Pso
Gallente Deltole Research Labs
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Posted - 2007.04.30 22:21:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Iuris Proeliator Change 1: No bookmarks WITHIN the complex. The reason being:
Change 2: Random respawn locations for the farmable items in question. A good set too. Maybe make the can "Float" through space too so it moves around over time. Make the players chase it. Make it be who gets there first.
The reason for the bookmark change is so they can't just set a bunch of bookmarks and attempt to warp around or always have a bookmark near a spawn site.
When did they start allowing bookmarks in deadspace?
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syphurous
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.05.01 02:17:00 -
[14]
It needs to be moved to Exploration and the cans need to cycle so one can doesn't have a higher drop rate/ loot in each complex. Then when one complex has been run it can dissapear and respawn in the same constellation.
Only the agents need be fixed, though some coulod probably move with the plexes if they're 1 time talk. ______________________________
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Fantome
Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.05.01 10:25:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Fantome on 01/05/2007 10:29:24 Living 99,9999% of the time in 0.0, i agree we need to be abble to get those sort of stuff in 0.0 too : stop that spawn in easy static plex, move it in those you find with exploration low sec and 0.0.
PS : nice skill tree Grey Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum. |
O4apoBalllka
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Posted - 2007.09.08 21:29:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Fantome ... stop that spawn in easy static plex, move it in those you find with exploration low sec and 0.0.
agree
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James Grand
Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2007.09.08 23:28:00 -
[17]
Originally by: O4apoBalllka
Originally by: Fantome ... stop that spawn in easy static plex, move it in those you find with exploration low sec and 0.0.
agree
die
-------------------------------------------------- The opinions expressed in my posts are entirely my own. |
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