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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Lea Re
CAPITAL TRUST FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.20 06:06:00 -
[121]
it all depends how big is the system. try probing some1 out in x-70mu =] gl
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Jaaff
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Posted - 2007.04.20 08:01:00 -
[122]
Put a time limit on cloaking effect
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2007.04.20 08:11:00 -
[123]
"Scenerio: Right now there's a sov system in 0.0 that's being camped by about 10 cloaked hostiles. These players are able to stay in system 23/7 with complete impunity because there's no way to find a cloaked ship.
They are AFK most of the time. Checking the system periodically. When they see a lone hauler they're able to take it out, retreat to a safe spot, cloak up and go back to doing something else: eating, heading to work, sleeping, whatever.
Meanwhile everyone else in that same system is spending all of their online time looking over their shoulders or running around trying to find the cloaker."
No offense but it sounds like you need to head back to Empire. I mean let's all take note especially the DEV'S. This is what the supposed wild west of 0.0 has become. These people camp a few pipelines to blockage 0.0 from most everyone else and it is one big carebear fest out there. It is so bad that they are complaining about having to "look over their shoulders" while playing.... OMG cry me a freaking river.
Take the pile of sh1t responses everyone gets when they complain about how easy and safe it is to camp gates to prevent people from entering your precious 0.0 area. FLY IN GROUPS!, Don't fly ships you cannot afford to loose. I mean wtf is a solo hauler doing running around in 0.0 anyways it is supposed to be the most dangerous area in EVE only for the hardest of the hardcore.
I mean thank farking god there is atleast some damn danger for you in 0.0 and here you are whining to have even that removed....What really needs to happen is the damn pipeline to 0.0 opened right the hell up so you can;t simply camp a damn gate to lock your area down. 0.0 is supposed to be dangerous and filled with combat and it is nothing like that, primarily thanks to lame gate camping tactics being so incredibly effective and keeping hostiles out ( especially hostiles in powerful ships, sure a little stinking inty or something can get past a camp but nothing of true significance.).
sorry youre Idea suxors period again if you can;t handle the danger of 0.0 and want to mine and run around in your hauler safe and sound head back to empire there is a NPC corp with your name written all over it.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.04.20 08:30:00 -
[124]
Defending a system from 10 cloakers is worth about 3.4b isk a day by opportunity cost of mining in empire.
You simply cannot defend against 10 cloakers with a reasonable expendature. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
xMillz
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Posted - 2007.04.20 09:24:00 -
[125]
0.0 is meant to be dangerous - so really your just whining about not being safe in 'your area'.
additionally, there SHOULD be more access points to 0.0 that way more people could visit/enter without haveing to deal with gate camps.
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ghosttr
Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.20 09:29:00 -
[126]
Edited by: ghosttr on 20/04/2007 09:26:49 Cloaking is about the safest thing in 0.0, outposts can be taken, poses can be popped. And you can watch all of this happen in no danger whatsoever while you are cloaked and at your ss. I understand your so badass that you need something as safe as a npc station to survive in 0.0, real men fight, little boys hide.
So strip off that cloak and come at me like a real man, stop hiding and fight.
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Blue Pixie
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Posted - 2007.04.20 09:39:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Goumindong Defending a system from 10 cloakers is worth about 3.4b isk a day by opportunity cost of mining in empire.
You simply cannot defend against 10 cloakers with a reasonable expendature.
Defend? Defend from what, exactly? Ships that can't target you?
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Blue Pixie
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Posted - 2007.04.20 09:42:00 -
[128]
Originally by: ghosttr So strip off that cloak and come at me like a real man, stop hiding and fight.
Or what? You and your kind will keep crying to CCP... like real men?
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Noluck Ned
FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.20 10:38:00 -
[129]
Forget probing them out. All we need is a time limit on how long a cloak can stay active without a player refreshing it or recloaking.
Several of my alliance use this tactic and even they agree thats its broken. There is no counter to an afk cloaker at the moment. If the player is at his keyboard and moving around or scanning or whatever whilst cloaked then its all good. But when a player can affect the game without even playing then something needs to be looked at.
I dont mind having one in my system disrupting my activities; provided I know he is working to prevent me from doing my thing. I cannot see how anyone can agree that logging in, cloaking and then going afk until downtime is a balanced tactic. All I want is to know that every so often the enemy cloaker has to be active and at his/her keyboard.
Perhaps a solution can be found in the new "heat" mechanic.
F4T4L Recruitment |
Rafaello Cruel
Gallente Rave Technologies Inc. Ion Core
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Posted - 2007.04.20 11:18:00 -
[130]
------------------------------------- best regards Rafaello Cruel
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Rafaello Cruel
Gallente Rave Technologies Inc. Ion Core
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Posted - 2007.04.20 11:19:00 -
[131]
imho cloking is only way to emergency go to ss and stay away in 0.0 (in case of real life needs) its a game - we must remember that so if anyone needs to go afk there must be posibility like that its not posible to just be in ss like old times... so its posible to be in ss cloaked... (suffers one hi slot) but its right with cloaked recons distrubing local... so - imho make t2 very slow probes - but let them use only in systems where is friendly pos with specialized equipment so if you have pos in system with "clocking sniff" you can use t2 antycloak probes to find cloacked ships - but that will take hudge amount of time.... so - it will be a bit easier to defend systems and poses too :) its only my opinion im against "just probing cloakers methods" only in sov space
------------------------------------- best regards Rafaello Cruel
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Blue Pixie
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Posted - 2007.04.20 12:00:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Noluck Ned ...I cannot see how anyone can agree that logging in, cloaking and then going afk until downtime is a balanced tactic.
And I cannot see how anyone can agree that logging in and merely glancing at a freaking chat tab to detect every pilot in a system ù even those skilled and equipped to specifically AVOID detection ù is a balanced tactic.
This whole argument boils down to: "CCP should condone and REWARD the metagaming tactics I like, while penalizing others who may use metagaming tactics I don't like." It's a prime example of blatant, self-serving hypocrisy.
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TZeer
BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.04.20 12:48:00 -
[133]
Originally by: ghosttr Edited by: ghosttr on 20/04/2007 09:26:49 Cloaking is about the safest thing in 0.0, outposts can be taken, poses can be popped. And you can watch all of this happen in no danger whatsoever while you are cloaked and at your ss. I understand your so badass that you need something as safe as a npc station to survive in 0.0, real men fight, little boys hide.
So strip off that cloak and come at me like a real man, stop hiding and fight.
So is sitting in a station or logging off. You are still in system but you cant do anything. Basically what you want, is just to be able to stick some fighters on a target and be done with it. Dont come here and call that fighting.
We have been bringing it to your blob on a daily basis. Stop whining cause we dont warp our ships mindlessly into your blob.
With or without a cloak, the results would have been the same. What you want is some kinda way to probe down a single ship and kill it without a fight. Casue you know you will loose if not.
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pherlopolus
Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2007.04.20 12:58:00 -
[134]
Bleh.
you'll be asking for FOF missiles that can hit cloaked ships next.
if i want to sit in a cloaked ship afk, i want to be able to do it with out being found, same as a station.
imagine your a sniper in RL, just because you are taking a leak, or eating or even taking a nap, doesnt mean you are arnt there ready to shoot if needed.
so stop whining, start working round it.
or i'll go afk in my ares with the ability to run my MWD 100% time, i'll head for the furthest warpable point and just head out of system at 3500ms.
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TZeer
BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.04.20 13:17:00 -
[135]
Edited by: TZeer on 20/04/2007 13:15:25 Lets look at what have been done to make it easier to find hostile ships since this game came out. Cause in the beginning you didnt have probes, and there was something called deep SS.
1: Probes came out 2: Deep SS got made very hard to make 3: Deep SS got impossible to make 4: Scan probes got boosted beyond stupidity ( Get a position on you in 20 sec )
For that we have a module that makes you not detectable on scanner.
The cloak:
* Takes up a highslot that could have been used to something useful in combat * Cant warp while cloaked (except the cover op one, but the ships using it is made of paper) * Cant target while cloaked * Can hardly move while cloaked * Cant cloak if targeted * Cant target anything the first 10 sec after decloaking (with maxed skills, something that will take you close to 30 days to get) * Loose 40% of signature res.
And on top of that you want it more nerfed? Making it scannable will make that module useless.
Dont get me wrong, a module like the one in the database, that sends out a pulse looks cool. But remember... That all the stuff you are screaming for will bite you in the arse in the end. Many times theres people cloaking up on the gate, slipping thru the trap. With the suggestions you guys are comming with you will have no counter to a gatecamp. And we will have you whining on the forums again that the modules are to powerful and you need a counter...
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Aaeolian
ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.20 13:51:00 -
[136]
Signed / afk cloakers are ruining to much of my game time. |
Fswd
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Posted - 2007.04.20 13:53:00 -
[137]
Originally by: TZeer
Originally by: ghosttr Im hoping i can bring it up in todays dev chat. We just need something to counter cloaks, the safety it offers need to be limited, especially the t1 'prototype' version. The t2 version i beleive should remain unchanged.
Stop whining, we killed you twice last night. We had 2 BS and you guys had what? 4-5? +additional cruisers, frigs. On top of that we where on the gate. Last time we had one BS. Get a grip. Learn to fight before you start crying for a nerf.
And does mentioning this lets your e-peen grow? --- So I flame and troll when the occasion calls for it. So what are you gonna do about it? |
Noluck Ned
FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.20 14:01:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Blue Pixie
Originally by: Noluck Ned ...I cannot see how anyone can agree that logging in, cloaking and then going afk until downtime is a balanced tactic.
And I cannot see how anyone can agree that logging in and merely glancing at a freaking chat tab to detect every pilot in a system ù even those skilled and equipped to specifically AVOID detection ù is a balanced tactic.
This whole argument boils down to: "CCP should condone and REWARD the metagaming tactics I like, while penalizing others who may use metagaming tactics I don't like." It's a prime example of blatant, self-serving hypocrisy.
We are talking about probing out cloakers, not about nerfing local. If you need to discuss that then feel free to create your own thread.
F4T4L Recruitment |
Swift Wind
6rasshopper Inc.
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Posted - 2007.04.20 14:26:00 -
[139]
Originally by: ghosttr Edited by: ghosttr on 20/04/2007 09:26:49 Cloaking is about the safest thing in 0.0, outposts can be taken, poses can be popped. And you can watch all of this happen in no danger whatsoever while you are cloaked and at your ss. I understand your so badass that you need something as safe as a npc station to survive in 0.0, real men fight, little boys hide.
So strip off that cloak and come at me like a real man, stop hiding and fight.
Your funny. What a challange, your blob vs my one man intel corp. Ya I'm just a scared little boy... Lets see you drop from your corp/alliance, go solo, then continue to operate in 0.0 with no cloak... good luck with that...
Real men adapt and overcome...
Anywhere, Anytime. |
Blue Pixie
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:18:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Noluck Ned We are talking about probing out cloakers, not about nerfing local. If you need to discuss that then feel free to create your own thread.
You're talking about probing out "cloakers" you wouldn't know were in the system if you weren't exploiting the chat tab in a manner the devs never intended.
It's most certainly relevant to the discussion. And to suggest otherwise ù particularly after just raising the issue of balance ù is not only preposterous, but utterly shameless.
If you need to stifle the truth, feel free to create and moderate your own forum.
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:29:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Moridin it just has to be invented some creative way for people to scan for cloked ships in a system if they hold the sovenrity
Big post on this in features & ideas. My latest suggestion was to give them the probes, remove local, but give them a POS module that could detect cloakers. module should be a sufficient drain that it isn't just put up in every system...only those that are TRULY owned AND maintained. Cloakers are free to do the exploration thing in non-owned systems, but have to watch their behind in owned ones.
Don't ask me how to balance it, as I never ran a POS - but if it's SOVEREIGNTY that's the issue here, then any detection method has to be related to it.
Non-negotiable point (from my point of view) is that if you can detect cloakers, they HAVE to be removed from local. but personally, I think the whole "threat from cloaked ships" thing is overplayed anyway...it's still just people whining for their 100% kill rate.
* This post is a result of me reading page one...bear with me, I will catch up... * ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
Lucky Lynn
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:33:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Oveur
Now, I like local, it's good to see travelers in the same system as you are and encourages people to talk to each other. But it also has a big tactical advantage, that has a far bigger impact in 0.0 than it will ever have in empire space. This is why I'd only like local to change in 0.0. After reading tons of threads on this, I'm most fond if this approach: Local will remain as a chat channel, but it would no longer show the pilots that are in the system . If you talk, you show up, if you don't talk you dont show up. You would still see the system count on the tab (Updated: This part seems to be commonly misunderstood, only the faces going, not the count.)
Now had they got on this back in '04 when Oveur had the right idea, then you wouldn't be here whining now. Or would you? Probably.
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:54:00 -
[143]
Originally by: TZeer There is a thingy in the database that releases some kinda pulse that decloaks everything within x km, that would be cool. But im against the scanning thingy
If they put that IN, I would want the default "proximity decloak" removed or massively reduced (say from 2000m to 200m)...you have a module to decloak them now, so why do you need another rule as well?
My suggestions;
1. Remove cloaked ships from local - but only when cloak is ON. If they type in local or any chat other than "Help", they show up for 15 minutes(simulates maintaining radio silence). I know - Teamspeak...I can't do anything about that I'm afraid. 2. Add POS module that detects cloaked signatures (depends on skills...level 1 would just say "X cloaked signatures detected...level 2, 3, 4, and 5 would split it down into Battleships, Cruisers, Frigates and covert ops). This actually gives you a bit MORE info than local, which is your advantage for having sovereignty. 3. Add scan probes that detect cloaked ships - but again, ONLY when cloak is active...a clever cloaker could avoid the scan by actually decloaking. Once the scan probe has completed it's cycle, the cloaked ship should get a message "A probe just scanned your ship", so that it has chance to respond.
*note* I think it's ridiculous that probes from a very long range identify the ship...this should be more opaque, so that you get "battleship", "cruiser" etc...that would make it more of a challenge for the scanner, not knowing exactly what they might find.
4. Add a ship module that allows a ship to SEE but not TARGET a cloaked ship. They then use this visual information to approach the cloaked ship and decloak it by the normal means, then lock it down.
That's all it needs. It become more difficult for cloakers in "owned" systems, but they get more free reign (no local) elsewhere.
You should bear in mind that exploration puts a bind on covert ops ships in that they cannot warp while analysing their probes...thus anything that is going to pester them every five minutes or so is a REAL pain...let me give you some figures;
Best analysis time is two minutes...and that required getting a rank 8 skill to level 5, along with a few others. Sift probes have a maximum duration of 8 minutes 20 seconds. You can't start a scan until 15 seoncds after you launch the probe...so you're down to 8 mins 5 seconds. Thus...max scans you can get out of a sift is 4...if you're quick. if you make a covert ops ship warp away between scans, it DEFINITELY drops to at most THREE scans. And sifts don't always produce a result in their four scan lifetime as it is.
THAT is why your mechanism to nerf AFK cloaking ALSO nerfs ACTIVE cloakers.
(use of "YOUR" does not necessarily refer to TZeer's post) ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
Rhaegor Stormborn
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:55:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Jaaff Put a time limit on cloaking effect
1 hour should be plenty, and the longer one stays cloaked the longer they must wait before re-cloaking.
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.20 16:09:00 -
[145]
As far as I can see, the whole argument is that cloakers shouldn't be able to AFK without recourse. I've seen various solutions suggested, but all have their drawbacks;
AFK indicator - could be exploited in both directions...a ship could sit until it activated an PRETEND to be AFK, equally pirtaes coudl wait for the AFK light to come on and then go and gank people.
Auto logoff timer - just a general pain in the arse...
...so how about this for a solution...(I'm thinking through my original idea as I type, so this may never even see the light of day)...
Ship goes AFK. After 15 minutes inactivity, the system registers the ship as AFK, and puts it in "standby" mode. No notification is given to any other player. Modules on the "standby" ship are not deactivated, but all other systems are put into a "low power" state.
When the system detects input, the ships leaves standby mode. A message is broadcast in local to the effect of "(shipclass) startup detected". It takes a full 60 seconds for a ship to leave standby...during that time, it cannot warp or activate/deactivate any modules.
This means that any AFK character is still able to go AFK without alerting everyone else to the fact...but if they are AFK for some time, they cannot "surprise" other players in the system. This to me is fair...if you are not AFK, but merely waiting, you deserve to have the element of surprise. If you've been away from your keyboard for 15 minutes or more, I don't think a 60 second "warmup" time is going to break your heart.
Yes, there may be the odd disaster when you come back to your PC after 15 minutes to find you are being attacked, but cannot get away for 60 seconds. Sucks to be you I guess...but you could just as easily have been found in the first 3 minutes that you left your PC... ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.20 16:13:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn 1 hour should be plenty, and the longer one stays cloaked the longer they must wait before re-cloaking.
A cloaked ship that cannot, under certain circumstances, cloak. For balance I think you'd have to undo EVERY negative that cloaked ships have, up to and including being able to fire from cloaked.
Seriously, it's a REALLY bad idea...this wouldn't just hit AFK cloakers, it would force any cloaked ship in a hostile territory to be UNcloaked for a long period of time every hour...that's just incompatible with the job that they are desgined to do. ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.20 16:21:00 -
[147]
Originally by: ghosttr So strip off that cloak and come at me like a real man, stop hiding and fight.
This is obviously some sort of masculinity contest, so let me show you how I'm going to win.
I'm going to show that I'm more than confident enough in my own abiities that I don't have to prove myself to everyone who shouts "chicken".
I'm going to show you that a post on a forum questioning my manhood is just empty text.
I'm going to annoy the holy crap out of you by STAYING cloaked, and laughing at your feeble, ineffective attempts to find me.
I'm going to point out that your post, which at first appears as manly bravado, is actually J.A.W. (just another whine) and that only babies whine.
I'm going to point out the underlying homoerotic implications of the phrase "strip off and come at me like a man"
And lastly, I'm going to win by the use of a single word.
No. ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.20 16:23:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Goumindong ...stuff...
Oh God no. Does this mean we have to start arguing HERE now as well? ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
MrPops
Caldari Foundation R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.04.20 16:27:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Aaeolian Signed / afk cloakers are ruining to much of my game time.
How? Please elaborate.
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MrPops
Caldari Foundation R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.04.20 16:38:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
Originally by: Jaaff Put a time limit on cloaking effect
1 hour should be plenty, and the longer one stays cloaked the longer they must wait before re-cloaking.
Sounds to me like you like the grinding or rat race type games. I suggest you check out WOW at https://signup.worldofwarcraft.com/menu.html
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