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Tista
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Posted - 2007.04.20 14:59:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Valrandir This is not real.
It's not ment to be real, it's ment to be a suggestion and an idea.. it's just theory nothing else. -------------------- My sig was stolen from some website.. leet!
The true Industrial capital ship! |
Lougra
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Posted - 2007.04.20 14:59:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Tista Edited by: Tista on 20/04/2007 13:55:59 Edited by: Tista on 20/04/2007 13:54:50 Ship name: Behemoth
The Ore cyndicate after many requests finaly decided it was time to put the ultimate industrial force into testing. The mighty Behemoth, Colussus class Ore ship will finaly released to the public after one final year of testing. It will be the true driving force of industrial corperations and alliances alike.
Bonuses:
5% bonus to all sheild resists per level 3% to strip/ice miners cycle time per level 3% reduction in refining waste per level 5% increase in cargo bay per level Immune to all forms of electronic warfare Strip miners have a 200% increase in range Mobile refining array and strip/ice miner cpu requirments bonus: -99%
Statistics:
CPU: 970 PG: 290,000 High slots: 6 Medium slots: 6 Low slots: 6 Rig upgrade slots: 3
Mobile refining array :
Fittings:
High slot: 1 Powergrid usage: 100000 CPU usage: 10000 mass: 1 kg volume: 1000 m3 packaged Consumption type: Strontium Clathrates Consumption Quantity: 500 Max velocity bonus: -100% Activation time / duration: 600.00 sec Shield boost duration bonus: -50%
Skills:
Primary Skill required
Mobile Industrial Configuration I Industry V Astrogeology V Science V Mining V Mining upgrades V
My views on this.
Remove the mining ability. No nee to have a giant mining ship. We have hulks for that. Keep current bonuses and give the ability to equip up to 3 mining foreman links. Foreman's bonuses be stackable with ship's bonuses. (a mining director into capital ship) Give the ability to launch up to 3-4 fighters or 10 drones for self defence.
Mobile refining Array: How many m3 can refine?
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Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:02:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Tista
I was also thinking that one of the bonuses could be to improve the use of mining gang links by 3% per level.. meaning this ship would really be used in large operations and have a true purpose.
Now that would certainley be worth haveing
Originally by: Tista
as to the comment about it being a giant hauler.. what do the motherships do in alliances when they arn't fighting?
Actuley i doubt motherships do much hauling, there jump range is pitifull compaired to carriers, so for the amount of fuel they use you could do the same job with a pair of carriers or even dreads, the only advantage motherships have for hauling stuff around is they can fit a couple of battleships in there ship arrays, but the fuel cost and time spent setting up more cynos outweighs that.
Being a giaint hauler with a jumpdrive is actuley something i think we could do with, but i also think that haveing a jump drive capeabile freighter thats immune to EW is overpowered, so a bigger focus on its mining capeabilitys would help ballance it. -
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Caffeine Junkie
Caldari The Ministry Of Funny Walks
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:03:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Valrandir This is not real.
Two points for observation. ___________________
...and its "Armour" not "Armor" ... m'kay!
passive armour-tanking ftw! ;-) |
Tista
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:06:00 -
[35]
it will refine around 100k m3 in a go.. not too much since its not ment to overtake the use of a pos.
The idea of using mass drones will mean ship could potentialy be used in combat situations.. its not designed to do that.
It's designed to run from combat and just to deter rats and enough tank time to jump out.. or atleast survive whilst the fleet deals with the issue.
the capital hanger will allow people to dock mining ships and haulers into it.
Since it wont be able to pickup cans people will have to haul their cargo to the actual ship then the pilot must move the cargo into the cargo bay from the corp hanger.
It should have multiple cargo bays.. so basicly it will prevent the use of transportation of large ships without risk.
So each cargo bay will be around 40k m3, 10 cargo bays and with max skills it will beable to carry a battleship in each bay. You wont want to go afk in this thing because the chances are your guna get taken down by a threatening fleet.
-------------------- My sig was stolen from some website.. leet!
The true Industrial capital ship! |
Tista
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:08:00 -
[36]
Alski: the ship can't jump far and it cant go into 0.1+ systems it wont be used as a giant hauler it will be for the purpose of deep space mining and refining.
Another thing that could be added is a combination of all the exhumers bonuses into one ship... but not quite as good as all being used at once.
This is to stop it from overtaking the use of mining barges and exhumers. -------------------- My sig was stolen from some website.. leet!
The true Industrial capital ship! |
Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:15:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Tista Alski: the ship can't jump far and it cant go into 0.1+ systems it wont be used as a giant hauler it will be for the purpose of deep space mining and refining.
Another thing that could be added is a combination of all the exhumers bonuses into one ship... but not quite as good as all being used at once.
This is to stop it from overtaking the use of mining barges and exhumers.
I can guarantee you it would be used for hauling, if your 30 jumps into 0.0, and you have the option of either taking a freighter through those 30 jumps, OR...
Taking it one jump into 0.0 and using your capital industrial to jumpdrive the other 29, I can assure you no matter how many cynos it would take we would all be doing the jumpdrive option, moving normal freighters through 0.0 is just too slow, painful and risky. -
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:21:00 -
[38]
It lacks the Veldspar bonus
Help me help you. |
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Tista
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:26:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Alski
Originally by: Tista Alski: the ship can't jump far and it cant go into 0.1+ systems it wont be used as a giant hauler it will be for the purpose of deep space mining and refining.
Another thing that could be added is a combination of all the exhumers bonuses into one ship... but not quite as good as all being used at once.
This is to stop it from overtaking the use of mining barges and exhumers.
I can guarantee you it would be used for hauling, if your 30 jumps into 0.0, and you have the option of either taking a freighter through those 30 jumps, OR...
Taking it one jump into 0.0 and using your capital industrial to jumpdrive the other 29, I can assure you no matter how many cynos it would take we would all be doing the jumpdrive option, moving normal freighters through 0.0 is just too slow, painful and risky.
It doesn't really matter how people use it.. since a frieghter can do double the cargo bay and they will only be using 1 of the 9 bonuses it's got.. it will be wasted by those people.
The amount of carriers used for hauling is shocking. It's their only real purpose in alliances these days.. my friends corperation has him running 3-4 jumps a week just to keep poses and people happy.
And i saw an aeon the other day being loaded up by about 8 itty Vs.. now i don't know what was in them but im pretty sure they wern't ships and ammo. -------------------- My sig was stolen from some website.. leet!
The true Industrial capital ship! |
Tista
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:26:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Chribba It lacks the Veldspar bonus
It does have a hidden bonus just for you Chribba.. -------------------- My sig was stolen from some website.. leet!
The true Industrial capital ship! |
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Trind2222
Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:28:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Trind2222 on 20/04/2007 15:29:32 First of all this is no ming ship is moblile refinery and shou smae amout of bonus that a capital ship shoud have.
3% reduction in refining waste per level 5% increase in cargo bay per level 3% bonus to foreman gang link per level Mobile refining array cpu bonus: -99% Gang link cpu bonus: -99%
4 high slot 6 Med slot 6 low slot
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Tista
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:30:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Trind2222 First of all this is no ming ship is moblile refinery and shou smae amout of bonus that a capital ship shoud have.
3% reduction in refining waste per level 5% increase in cargo bay per level 3% bonus to foreman gang link per level Mobile refining array cpu bonus: -99% Gang link cpu bonus: -99%
I think you will find this is the larger version, its like the mothership of the capital indys. The other one was written up by someone else in this thread earlier.. seems about right but i think you should talk to him about changing that idea.
-------------------- My sig was stolen from some website.. leet!
The true Industrial capital ship! |
Trind2222
Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:37:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Trind2222 on 20/04/2007 15:34:57 The only difrent from a motherships to a capital is size and 3 bonuses 99% reduction in CPU need for Clone Vat Bay Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level
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Mallick
Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:42:00 -
[44]
Capital Ships lvl5 eh? Might aswell get a Titan.
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Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:44:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Tista
Originally by: Alski
Originally by: Tista Alski: the ship can't jump far and it cant go into 0.1+ systems it wont be used as a giant hauler it will be for the purpose of deep space mining and refining.
Another thing that could be added is a combination of all the exhumers bonuses into one ship... but not quite as good as all being used at once.
This is to stop it from overtaking the use of mining barges and exhumers.
I can guarantee you it would be used for hauling, if your 30 jumps into 0.0, and you have the option of either taking a freighter through those 30 jumps, OR...
Taking it one jump into 0.0 and using your capital industrial to jumpdrive the other 29, I can assure you no matter how many cynos it would take we would all be doing the jumpdrive option, moving normal freighters through 0.0 is just too slow, painful and risky.
It doesn't really matter how people use it.. since a frieghter can do double the cargo bay and they will only be using 1 of the 9 bonuses it's got.. it will be wasted by those people.
The amount of carriers used for hauling is shocking. It's their only real purpose in alliances these days.. my friends corperation has him running 3-4 jumps a week just to keep poses and people happy.
And i saw an aeon the other day being loaded up by about 8 itty Vs.. now i don't know what was in them but im pretty sure they wern't ships and ammo.
Well I think it does matter a great deal how they are used, as unplanned usage can bring up some serious balance questions.
For example, if it can move 400km3, that's enough for a very large scale invasion fleet worth of supplies, and enough POS towers and components to take an entire region, it is reasonable to be able to move such equipment with complete impunity? (immune to all forms of EW - being able to just tank a fleet while recharging and then jumpdriveing out of a dictor bubble for example)
I totally do not disagree that Carriers are used too much as glorified haulers, and because of that we should have a jump capable hauler, but a jump capable freighter is possibly unbalanced, I personally think an EW immune jump capable freighter is definitely unbalanced.
(BTW, I certainly disagree that that’s all carriers are used for these days, I just think they merely have issues when used in a fleet support role, that’s all, but that’s another topic)
"aeon the other day being loaded up by about 8 itty V" Was it a Mercenary Coalition aeon by any chance? If so that would possibly be carrying the multiple large towers that have just gone up in, and subsequently lost FLA (hopefully temporarily) our first outpost system, you see what I mean about balance?
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Tista
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:45:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Mallick Capital Ships lvl5 eh? Might aswell get a Titan.
Yes that's true but then again the titan has it's role and the Behemoth has another. Besides you could say the same about a carrier and a mothership.
differnce is that a mothership costs alot more.
-------------------- My sig was stolen from some website.. leet!
The true Industrial capital ship! |
Dregann
Amarr Trading Company
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:45:00 -
[47]
Way too overpowered lol
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Tista
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:51:00 -
[48]
Askil: yes it was as i said before this ship can't go into empire.. so things will have to come out to it.. to load it up. And if you use a freighter you still have the chance of being assaulted.
Not to mention the fact that this ship is already extremley vunerable as it is.. it all depends on how the opposition see's it. I personaly think if an alliance got one of these it would become a primary target.. much like getting a titan. As it is such a huge threat to the well being of the opponent it should be considered a threat and taken down at all costs.
It could be reduced to a one system jump drive.. in which case it would be no differnt to using gates.. only it costs isk to do so. -------------------- My sig was stolen from some website.. leet!
The true Industrial capital ship! |
Tista
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:52:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Dregann Way too overpowered lol
Would you be kind enough to elaborate on why it's overpowered since i'm taking all perspectives into consideration to alter the actual OP. -------------------- My sig was stolen from some website.. leet!
The true Industrial capital ship! |
FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:55:00 -
[50]
A mini-freighter that can carry ~200m3, open containers in space, and is jump capable; is fine.
A mobile-refinery that can provide gang bonuses to miners, and refine ore in its belly (locked down whilst refining); is fine.
One of each ship above would complement any industrial operation perfectly. The ship you have is overpowered.
Sure, 40-50bn is a lot. But serious macro/farming corps could acquire the ISK to purchase one of these and they would be damn near unstoppable. 2-3 of those would *****asteroid belts.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
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Tista
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:59:00 -
[51]
Originally by: FireFoxx80 A mini-freighter that can carry ~200m3, open containers in space, and is jump capable; is fine.
A mobile-refinery that can provide gang bonuses to miners, and refine ore in its belly (locked down whilst refining); is fine.
One of each ship above would complement any industrial operation perfectly. The ship you have is overpowered.
Sure, 40-50bn is a lot. But serious macro/farming corps could acquire the ISK to purchase one of these and they would be damn near unstoppable. 2-3 of those would *****asteroid belts.
I agree it could do with a bit of tweaking.
I don't think macro miners would use these since they will need an alliance with soverignty(spelling) to build one and then need protection from assault from multiple ships.. and 2-3 of these in a belt would be the same as 6-7 covetors and 90-150billion unprotected isk would be scary. -------------------- My sig was stolen from some website.. leet!
The true Industrial capital ship! |
FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.20 16:00:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Tista
Originally by: Dregann Way too overpowered lol
Would you be kind enough to elaborate on why it's overpowered since i'm taking all perspectives into consideration to alter the actual OP.
The ship has all the capital bonuses you could ask for (hitpoints, drone bay, jump capable - so difficult to pin down to destroy); but none of the drawbacks of a mining/industrial vessel (slow, vulnerable).
Someone could easily purchase one or two of these ships and make their money back rapidly with no risk. Log a recon alt off in a quiet/dead-end system and ninja jump these capitals in to mine ore. As soon as a sniff of danger comes along, jump the capitals out.
Freighter use would practically drop to outpost-only duty, as someone could easily jump 400k m3+ (and more with expanders and rigs) safely to their POS/Stations.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
T'Laar Bok
m3 Corp
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Posted - 2007.04.20 16:00:00 -
[53]
30-50bil risk != reward
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Dregann
Amarr Trading Company
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Posted - 2007.04.20 16:03:00 -
[54]
Originally by: FireFoxx80
Originally by: Tista
Originally by: Dregann Way too overpowered lol
Would you be kind enough to elaborate on why it's overpowered since i'm taking all perspectives into consideration to alter the actual OP.
The ship has all the capital bonuses you could ask for (hitpoints, drone bay, jump capable - so difficult to pin down to destroy); but none of the drawbacks of a mining/industrial vessel (slow, vulnerable).
Someone could easily purchase one or two of these ships and make their money back rapidly with no risk. Log a recon alt off in a quiet/dead-end system and ninja jump these capitals in to mine ore. As soon as a sniff of danger comes along, jump the capitals out.
Freighter use would practically drop to outpost-only duty, as someone could easily jump 400k m3+ (and more with expanders and rigs) safely to their POS/Stations.
ty
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Tista
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Posted - 2007.04.20 16:07:00 -
[55]
Originally by: FireFoxx80
Originally by: Tista
Originally by: Dregann Way too overpowered lol
Would you be kind enough to elaborate on why it's overpowered since i'm taking all perspectives into consideration to alter the actual OP.
The ship has all the capital bonuses you could ask for (hitpoints, drone bay, jump capable - so difficult to pin down to destroy); but none of the drawbacks of a mining/industrial vessel (slow, vulnerable).
Someone could easily purchase one or two of these ships and make their money back rapidly with no risk. Log a recon alt off in a quiet/dead-end system and ninja jump these capitals in to mine ore. As soon as a sniff of danger comes along, jump the capitals out.
Freighter use would practically drop to outpost-only duty, as someone could easily jump 400k m3+ (and more with expanders and rigs) safely to their POS/Stations.
It suffers the same risk as a titan or a mothership but it is slower, and doesn't have half the tank or the ability to use fighters or DD weapons. -------------------- My sig was stolen from some website.. leet!
The true Industrial capital ship! |
Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.20 16:10:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Alski on 20/04/2007 16:08:29
Originally by: Tista Askil: yes it was as i said before this ship can't go into empire.. so things will have to come out to it.. to load it up. And if you use a freighter you still have the chance of being assaulted.
Not to mention the fact that this ship is already extremley vunerable as it is.. it all depends on how the opposition see's it. I personaly think if an alliance got one of these it would become a primary target.. much like getting a titan. As it is such a huge threat to the well being of the opponent it should be considered a threat and taken down at all costs.
It could be reduced to a one system jump drive.. in which case it would be no differnt to using gates.. only it costs isk to do so.
nahh too shorta jump range and it would have trouble even getting from an outpost to a nice mining system.
btw, i am totaley not opposed to the idea of capital industrial ships in the slightest, infact its something I've post about before, I just think when it comes to moving large quantities of stuff with a jumpdrive, there are serious, possibly even game breaking balance issues for the 0.0 populous.
I suggest, that if the role of this ship is to be mining based, then its cargo hold should be of a special type that can only store ore and minerals, nothing else.
As for a jump capable hauler, which is something I think is also sorely needed to relieve carrier pilots of there annoying burden and to dissuade people from picking them as a substitute capital industrial - then I think that should be a separate ship, and something on the order of 100,000m3 should be the top end limit of what it should carry, it should have a weak tank, and require carrier escort for travelling in unfriendly territory, it most certainly shouldn’t be EW immune.
I think, and have suggested before that what we should get is several capital industrial ships with there own uses and disadvantages, it would make it a lot more balanced, and also would mean they wouldn't have to be so expensive, so putting them within reach of even the small 0.0 alliances, and individual players, after all, not every alliance hands out free capital ships.
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Tista
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Posted - 2007.04.20 16:15:00 -
[57]
read up again in a sec, im going to alter it a bit more and see what people think.
-------------------- My sig was stolen from some website.. leet!
The true Industrial capital ship! |
Tista
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Posted - 2007.04.20 16:18:00 -
[58]
done. -------------------- My sig was stolen from some website.. leet!
The true Industrial capital ship! |
Tista
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Posted - 2007.04.20 16:27:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Tista on 20/04/2007 16:45:05 Edited by: Tista on 20/04/2007 16:39:39 Ship name: Behemoth Mk I
Following slow sales of its Behemoth Class capital ship, ORE synicate have produced a smaller cheaper version.
Bonuses:
5% bonus to all sheild resists per level 3% to Capital Mining Array cycle time per level 5% increase in cargo bay per level 3% increase in jump drive activation range per level -99% bonus to Gang link modules
Statistics:
CPU: 530 PG: 75,000 High slots: 3 Medium slots: 5 Low slots: 2 Rig upgrade slots: 3
shield capacity: 115,000 Shield Em Damage Resistance: 0 Shield Explosive Damage Resistance: 60 Shield Kinetic Damage Resistance: 40 Shield Thermal Damage Resistance: 20 Shield recharge time: 28,500.00 sec
Armor Hitpoints: 100,000 Armor Em Damage Resistance: 70 Armor Explosive Damage Resistance: 10 Armor Kinetic Damage Resistance: 25 Armor Thermal Damage Resistance: 35
Maximum Velocity: 75mps Drone bay capacity: 450 m3 Cargo bay capacity: 50,000 m3 Mass: 692,500,000 kg Inertia modifier: 0.06 Volume: 25600000 m3 packaged Capacitor recharge time: 3,387.50 sec Capacitor Capacity: 27500
Maximum targeting range: 68 km Signature radius: 1500 m Max locked targets: 6 RADAR Sensor Strength: 0 LADAR Sensor Strength: 0 Magnetometric Sensor Strength: 8 Gravimetric Sensor Strength: 0
Kinetic dmg resistance: 0 Thermal dmg resistance: 0 Explosive dmg resistance: 0 EM dmg resistanceem dmg resistance: 0
Fusion Propulsion Strength: 0 Ion Propulsion Strength: 0 Magpulse Propulsion Strength: 0 Plasma Propulsion Strength: 6
Jump Drive Consumption Amount: 1000 Jump Drive Capacitor Need: 0.95 Calibration: 400
Skill requirments:
Primary Skill required Colussus I Exhumers IV Capital Ships I Advanced Spaceship command V Spaceship Command V Industry V Astrogeology V Science V Mining V
Secondary Skill required Mining Barge V Astrogeology III Science IV Mining IV Industry V
Tertiary Skill required Jump Drive Operation I Navigation V Warp Drive Operation V Navigation I Science V
Rough cost: 2-3 billion isk -------------------- My sig was stolen from some website.. leet!
The true Industrial capital ship! |
Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.20 16:30:00 -
[60]
Changes:
The good: - Smaller cargobay - Much smaller dronebay (Lots of drones but no fighters) - Less tank
The bad: - Still Immune to all forms of electronic warfare, I firmly believe that making it impossible to destroy critical assets in 0.0 warfare is unbalanced. - Needs a large low end ore bonus, ask any 0.0 miner what they never what to have to do again, and the answer will be "mine low ends" - Should still outmine several hulks, and mine ice like nothing else out there, consider a separate bonus for ice miners. - Mobile Refining Array - 30,000 m3 every half hour just isn't gonna cut it, a hulk could probably fill that by itself.
The unknown: - Price? - Mobile Refining Array Efficiency. - should be better than pos's cos pos refining sucks.
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