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Cearain
Plus 10 NV It Burns When I'm PvPing
1501
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Posted - 2017.03.07 20:04:13 -
[1] - Quote
Thanks for offering some views on faction war. Gorski never would respond to players and certainly never responded to me when I was told to talk to him about fw.
I realize that allot of people have different views on fw. I actually like the idea of splitting up the war into 1v1v1v1 for the reasons you give. But I don't think that is the crux of the problem with faction war.
The main problem has always been the case that you win sov most efficiently by running away from fights. This has been disheartening to many players who have been in faction war and I believe is the main reason why the vast majority of eve players think fw is a joke.
You will see how people gain sov most effectively by looking those who get the most vp (ie, captured the most plexes) for the week or day and then look at how they fit their ships. This website allows you to see who gained the most vp per day or week:
https://api.eveonline.com/eve/FacWarTopStats.xml.aspx
Here are the top 3 vp gainers for the week: 1) Ten TenTim 2) Plex Peasant 3)Renka Ormand Take a look at their killboards I can't post the killboards on the forums.
The last player elected fw guy, Hans, pushed for measures to change this. Namely 2 measures. Rollbacks on timers when people run from a plex and a form of real time intel so we know where plexes are being taken.
CCP promised to do these things years ago but never did.
1) what is your personal position on rollbacks and real time intel?
2) regardless of your position will you at least ask ccp what happened? (Why did they promise this and then not deliver?) And ask if they still intend to keep their promise and if not why?
BTW I asked the same questions of the another candidate and would be happy to hear the answers from others as well. This issue was a big issue for allot of fw players but since ccp never followed up many left fw.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Plus 10 NV It Burns When I'm PvPing
1502
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Posted - 2017.03.08 15:51:39 -
[2] - Quote
Thanks for the response.
The intel tool would need to let pilots know where timers are being run before the plex is captured - or the purpose is defeated. After they are captured its too late to defend them.
I am not really sure why we would weaken the rollbacks to only work for militias. A very sizable percent of people in plexes are not in militias so this would insulate rabbit plexers from them. I am not sure why we would want to do that. Also I am not sure why a pvper should have to stay in the plex for it to roll back. Again it just seems to weaken the rollback effect. But any rollback is better than no rollback.
I just question whether this weakened rollback alone will be enough to make it so you win sov by fighting rather than by running away.
Its interesting that you refer to fw as part of the npe. I'm not exactly sure what defines the new player experience but how ever we define it is fine I suppose. My experience is that corporations like the one you are in now tend to give far more guidance to new players than any fw corp I have joined. Do you think fw should be more in the npe than null sec?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Plus 10 NV It Burns When I'm PvPing
1503
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Posted - 2017.03.09 00:35:08 -
[3] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Cearain wrote:Thanks for the response.
The intel tool would need to let pilots know where timers are being run before the plex is captured - or the purpose is defeated. After they are captured its too late to defend them.
I am not really sure why we would weaken the rollbacks to only work for militias. A very sizable percent of people in plexes are not in militias so this would insulate rabbit plexers from them. I am not sure why we would want to do thatGǪ
If the majority of players PVPing in FW space are not in militias maybe that's a problem in itself, maybe what I'm describing is not a problemGǪ..
I agree its worthwhile to discuss these issues and sort it out. I have not heard anyone say it is a problem to have more neutrals than fw guys pvping in fw space. But let's say that it is the problem for whatever reason. The way to fix it would be to make the pvpers want to join fw. Why don't they join? Rabbit plexing is ridiculous but if you don't do it you will lose your system and be locked out. (so any measures that reduce rabbit plexing would probably help) Also you have more targets when you can shoot both militias. Making fw 1v1v1v1 would help with this quite a bit. But also if being in the militia meant that you had access to a real time intel tool that let you know what plexes were attacked, those who like to pvp in fw plexes would have a big reason to join fw instead of staying neutral. (more on that below)
Suitonia wrote: I don't think the FW should be refocused or changed to be more NPE, I just think FW is usually the place where people who get bored of PVE and want to try PVP end up looking first.
Ok so there are 2 questions. 1) do most players go to null sec or fw or low sec neutral to start pvp? 2) Where should ccp direct them if they are going to direct them?
Do you think allot of the people in karmafleet used to be in faction war? I would think more people go to null sec and probably should go to null sec first.
ItGÇÖs true that plexes help you wittle down engagements. But that is still not as easy as being in the blob. Being in large null sec blobs seems the easiest pvp to have. Also the gate camping with bubbles and no gate guns seems pretty easy as well. But again I think it depends on the person. I think they are both options but I really don't think either should be shaped based on how new players will like them. I think they should both offer very different types of play so eve can things that appeal to a wide range of people.
Suitonia wrote: The instant intel thing seems like it could be a bit too strong, and way too spammy? as someone just checking a plex would spam the intel and you wouldn't get too much use from it? You need to capture 150 plexes to take a system from 0 to 100% anywayGǪ..
Ok first as far as spam. I think one approach would be to have it work through a map interface. That way there would be no spam. So for example it could give a blue number of the number of friendlies running plexes in a system and a red number for the number of enemies running plexes in a system. (It would be great if you could easily set desto from this tool.) Some other possibilities would be to have a tool that shows intel based on the number of jumps from your current position. It could give more in depth intel such as the type of plex being run (novice small medium or large). Again no spam.
Now you say it might be too strong. I agree it would be a strong tool. That is why I think allot of people who like to pvp in plexes would want to join a militia in order to get it! This will mean that more pvpers are suddenly showing up at these plexes and getting more and more pvp. I think this combined with a rollback GÇô maybe even a relatively weak one like you propose would turn fw into a bloodbath. Which would be awesome.
So what problem are we trying to solve? The problem is that fw sov is most efficiently won by running away. The api information I gave is the proof of that. No one is going to care about a sov system when sov is won by running away. So people by and large donGÇÖt care about fw sov.
With intel the rabbits can still run but they cant hide. And the rollbacks will make rabbit plexing even less efficient. This will almost certainly put rabbit plexing out of business.
Now you say people canGÇÖt capture a system quickly. ThatGÇÖs true. But whether fast or slow plexing is only fun when there is pvp GÇô otherwise it is just a grind. So yes I will see my system has been plexed after I went to sleep and now I can sit in a defensive plex and get it back. But if no one shows up to fight that is horribly boring and a reason why people leave fw. What needs to happen is ccp needs to provide mechanics where more plexes are fought over. Then winning a plex becomes an accomplishment and not a grind. Letting pilots know where plexes are being taken so they can fight over them is an obvious step to making that happen.
As far as ccp wanting people to do more scouting, I can only say it is not happening with fw. FW players are not going to start scouting when so many are just rabbits. People stopped caring about it. ItGÇÖs sort of a chicken and egg issue. Its been years and players donGÇÖt scout for this stuff. CCP needs to provide the players the tools to ignite the spark again. They shouldnGÇÖt think players are suddenly going to start caring about this broken sov system enough to scout out where the plexes are.
The system needs better intel tools and rollbacks. CCP and the players understood this before and ccp promised both. But then CCP went silent and never delivered. And no one from csm ever seemed to bring it up either which is why I am honestly less than impressed with the csm.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6607431#post6607431
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Plus 10 NV It Burns When I'm PvPing
1503
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Posted - 2017.03.16 15:47:47 -
[4] - Quote
Thanks for the response.
I think we see things pretty much the same with a few minor exceptions.
You wouldn't want to join faction war if you still want to mission or do other pve/hauler type things in high sec. You have a huge wardec with about 50,000 characters. It would be better to be in a null sec corp if you wanted your characters to still do high sec stuff.
I don't believe Gorski ever pushed for rollbacks, real time intel or really anything that would significantly improve fw sov. His big thing was fw missions. (missions don't effect sov) I think ccp addressed his concerns, but fw sov is still broken.
I think people are mixed about station lockouts. Lots of people left fw due to them. CCP put the lockouts in during inferno. The idea had come up before then and players routinely rejected it because it would decrease pvp thoughout the map. And if you look at a faction war map you will see there is definitely lots of deadspace. So I would think lots of faction war players are happy they can now set up in citadels. Of course there are those who think the lockouts were good and they have good reasons to support their view as well. I think that issue is less clear cut than the question of whether you should most effectively gain sov for your faction by running away.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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