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Lugh Crow-Slave
3557
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Posted - 2017.01.24 21:10:35 -
[31] - Quote
but again you need a lot more than the cyno.... a cyno doesn't just generate a fleet. the organization that goes into setting up a drop is far higher than using an mjfg. Not to mention the risk involved in jumping that fleet is also much higher than an MJFG
apples and oranges
BLOPS Hauler
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3557
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Posted - 2017.01.24 21:11:52 -
[32] - Quote
what this thread boils down to is another
"i don't use ____ but ____ is used against me. we should remove ____"
BLOPS Hauler
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Gungnir Winder
V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA
187
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Posted - 2017.01.24 21:17:37 -
[33] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:but again you need a lot more than the cyno.... a cyno doesn't just generate a fleet.
That is a valid point, it still doesn't justify why the module can be fitted on every ship.
And also I don't want it to be removed, you're twisting my words.
I'm saying that cynos should be lit by a dedicated ship.
My Youtube channel-á Gungnir Winder
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3557
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Posted - 2017.01.24 21:21:58 -
[34] - Quote
greatly removing them from the game.... who the hell is going to engage anyone if one of those ships are on D-scan
there is nothing wrong with them being fit to any ship. most things in eve can be fit to any ship its what makes it such a great sandbox. fitting a cyno and lighting one already has drawbacks and restrictions.
cynos allow for "suddenly spaceships" and that is about as eve as you can get
just like most things in game if you fly smart you can counter or avoid them but if you are dumb or they fly smarter they can ruin your day.
BLOPS Hauler
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Gungnir Winder
V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA
187
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Posted - 2017.01.24 21:26:48 -
[35] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:greatly removing them from the game.... who the hell is going to engage anyone if one of those ships are on D-scan
there is nothing wrong with them being fit to any ship. most things in eve can be fit to any ship its what makes it such a great sandbox. fitting a cyno and lighting one already has drawbacks and restrictions.
Oh yeah because you can't have them docked or a jump ahead.
Drawbacks and restrictions are silly. Considered most of the people use alts to light cynos :p
My Youtube channel-á Gungnir Winder
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3557
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Posted - 2017.01.24 21:35:06 -
[36] - Quote
Gungnir Winder wrote: Drawbacks and restrictions are silly.
right from the OPs mouth everyone
BLOPS Hauler
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Cade Windstalker
713
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Posted - 2017.01.24 21:38:42 -
[37] - Quote
Gungnir Winder wrote: I know I'm right.
You feel that you are right, without evidence you don't know anything for sure.
Gungnir Winder wrote:Sadly I can't / don't know how to give you exact data. I would love to because I know I'm right. But I'm pretty sure hotdropping has increased over last year, maybe year and a half.
Why is it broken? Because it disrupts subcap pvp, it doesn't encourage it. It encourages people to play the cyno warfare. And in the long run it will probably become really boring.
As for the rest, something being 'disruptive' isn't inherently bad. Eve is built on disruptions, ganking is disruptive to hauling, missioning, and industry. Small gangs are disruptive to solo pilots, and larger fleets are disruptive to small gangs. Almost everything in Eve F-s with something else because this is, at its core, a PvP game which means someone is going to have their gameplay experience violently intruded upon.
Some of the biggest and best moments in Eve have happened because someone got "disrupted", things escalated, and the next thing you know a week's worth of TQ GDP has been violently disassembled in an afternoon. |
Gungnir Winder
V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA
187
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Posted - 2017.01.24 21:40:04 -
[38] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
right from the OPs mouth everyone
Since I want to keep this civilized and constructive and you're bringing zero arguments to the table besides "sudden spaceships" which would still happen, only in a different way.
And since you're all "you can easily tell, check kb and stuff" but in the other thread you're asking for them to put back guns color so you can see what guns people are using before engaging.
I'm gonna ignore you.
My Youtube channel-á Gungnir Winder
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Gungnir Winder
V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA
187
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Posted - 2017.01.24 21:43:05 -
[39] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Some of the biggest and best moments in Eve have happened because someone got "disrupted", things escalated, and the next thing you know a week's worth of TQ GDP has been violently disassembled in an afternoon.
Those are very valid points, I mean it's true. I won't deny that. I still think those things can still happen only with a different approach.
My Youtube channel-á Gungnir Winder
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3557
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Posted - 2017.01.24 21:44:09 -
[40] - Quote
..... yes this and rewarding a pilot who has taken the time to look at guns after already placing himself on grid are oh so simmilar
BLOPS Hauler
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5204
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Posted - 2017.01.24 23:52:25 -
[41] - Quote
Gungnir Winder wrote:
I'm saying that cynos should be lit by a dedicated ship.
And you have not provided any justification for forcing huge parts of the game, in combat, industry and logistics, should be utterly reliant on one type of ship and only that one type of ship. Nor have you said anything at all about why co-ordination is bad, why fleets are bad, why bait is bad, why ratters being able to actually do something about your elite solo pvp boat is bad, why moving jump freighters and rorquals around is bad...
Need I go on?
If there is one of you and five of us, why should we not be able to **** up your day? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3558
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Posted - 2017.01.25 00:06:54 -
[42] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Gungnir Winder wrote:
I'm saying that cynos should be lit by a dedicated ship.
And you have not provided any justification for forcing huge parts of the game, in combat, industry and logistics, should be utterly reliant on one type of ship and only that one type of ship. Nor have you said anything at all about why co-ordination is bad, why fleets are bad, why bait is bad, why ratters being able to actually do something about your elite solo pvp boat is bad, why moving jump freighters and rorquals around is bad... Need I go on? If there is one of you and five of us, why should we not be able to **** up your day?
but he did give a reason don't you remember
he said it would be better that way we just have to trust him
BLOPS Hauler
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Trespasser
S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore
58
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Posted - 2017.01.25 01:26:03 -
[43] - Quote
i mean CCP could do something interesting like make a aura (kind of like the effect thats on a ship after it gets fleet boosted) but more shiny.. so that you can see if it has a cyno on it
This allows everyone to still fit cynos and use them but it also gives the chance of counter play |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3559
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Posted - 2017.01.25 02:17:10 -
[44] - Quote
Trespasser wrote:i mean CCP could do something interesting like make a aura (kind of like the effect thats on a ship after it gets fleet boosted) but more shiny.. so that you can see if it has a cyno on it
This allows everyone to still fit cynos and use them but it also gives the chance of counter play
there is already a chance of counter play all this does is
i warp to grid
see them shining
before i have even landed i'm spamming warp because as far as i know there are 20 supers on the other end (even though odds are its 1BB/CV)
BLOPS Hauler
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3713
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Posted - 2017.01.25 02:22:30 -
[45] - Quote
The idea is about lowering risk. 'tell me who has cynos so i know not to engage them'. To me its the same as ratters wanting to have an afk label on afk cloakers.
I don't think hot drops are as commom as they used to be. Not long after the fatigue introduction people were saying 'yay we use caps now that PL is less likely to drop on us'.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3559
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Posted - 2017.01.25 03:26:28 -
[46] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:The idea is about lowering risk. 'tell me who has cynos so i know not to engage them'. To me its the same as ratters wanting to have an afk label on afk cloakers.
I don't think hot drops are as commom as they used to be. Not long after the fatigue introduction people were saying 'yay we use caps now that PL is less likely to drop on us'.
to be fair it has made hot drops more common however they are now drops that are not 100% your screwed and a lot of the time you can get good fights out of them
generally a carrier/fax drop or a small blops fleet. rather than a ball of pl supers
BLOPS Hauler
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Gungnir Winder
V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA
187
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Posted - 2017.01.25 10:07:20 -
[47] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:
And you have not provided any justification for forcing huge parts of the game, in combat, industry and logistics, should be utterly reliant on one type of ship and only that one type of ship. Nor have you said anything at all about why co-ordination is bad, why fleets are bad, why bait is bad, why ratters being able to actually do something about your elite solo pvp boat is bad, why moving jump freighters and rorquals around is bad...
Never commented on any of the topics you mentioned.
But for the sake of giving perspective, I do not think that co-ordination, fleets, bait, or ratters being able to defend themselves are bad things.
Please read before posting. Thanks.
Edit: Typos
My Youtube channel-á Gungnir Winder
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Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
3053
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Posted - 2017.01.25 13:52:29 -
[48] - Quote
Gungnir Winder wrote:Danika Princip wrote:
And you have not provided any justification for forcing huge parts of the game, in combat, industry and logistics, should be utterly reliant on one type of ship and only that one type of ship. Nor have you said anything at all about why co-ordination is bad, why fleets are bad, why bait is bad, why ratters being able to actually do something about your elite solo pvp boat is bad, why moving jump freighters and rorquals around is bad...
Never commented on any of the topics you mentioned. But for the sake of giving perspective, I do not think that co-ordination, fleets, bait, or ratters being able to defend themselves are bad things. Please read before posting. Thanks. Edit: Typos
Then at least state which ship should be allowed to run cynos since it is a hugely important point. Right now, it feels like you want cynos to have a mention along the line of "Can only be fitted to force recon ship and combat recon ship." which would put a heavy cost on anyone just trying to run logistic for alliance deep in null sec for example. Your cyno alt you use to get stuff moved become a rather invested alt... |
Gungnir Winder
V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA
187
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Posted - 2017.01.25 14:51:27 -
[49] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Then at least state which ship should be allowed to run cynos since it is a hugely important point.
I thought something like command destroyers, maybe more tanky and a bit faster.
As I stated I don't want people to stop hotdropping or make it so useless that it will be practically unusable.
You should be able to do everything you do now but with only one class/role ship.
So definately something tanky and fast, able to reach a battlefield fast enough to provide capital support.
My Youtube channel-á Gungnir Winder
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3562
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Posted - 2017.01.25 14:57:36 -
[50] - Quote
oh cool so now on top of fuel costs i need to spend about 80mil on a suicide command dessi any time i need to move goods
not to mention cynos put your vel to 0 and we all know just how long a DD sitting at 0 lasts. hell you probably couldn't even manage to r-click jump in that time even w/o lagg
BLOPS Hauler
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Gungnir Winder
V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA
187
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Posted - 2017.01.25 15:08:43 -
[51] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:oh cool so now on top of fuel costs i need to spend about 80mil on a suicide command dessi any time i need to move goods
So let me understand, earlier in the topic you're saying that eve shouldn't be fair, sudden spaceships, bla bla...now you want things to be easy and fair for you ?
How convenient.
Again mate, you have no idea what you're talking about, really.
My Youtube channel-á Gungnir Winder
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Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
3053
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Posted - 2017.01.25 15:32:58 -
[52] - Quote
Gungnir Winder wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:
Then at least state which ship should be allowed to run cynos since it is a hugely important point.
I thought something like command destroyers, maybe more tanky and a bit faster. As I stated I don't want people to stop hotdropping or make it so useless that it will be practically unusable. You should be able to do everything you do now but with only one class/role ship. So definately something tanky and fast, able to reach a battlefield fast enough to provide capital support.
So you expect corp/alliance logistics to source multiple command destroyer + alts skilled into it to move stuff around? Have you ever run logistics for any size of corp/alliance to have an idea what this mean for them and by association, any line member fed by those jump freighter services?
You also expect a 0 velocity DD hull to withstand any kind of pressure long enough for people to be able to click jump, let alone setup a bridge and then clicking the titan and selecting jump?
Any bait with a dedicated **** would be absolutely impossible to miss since those whip would have the "cyno ship" label attached to them. Your idea of having the cyno ship in another system waiting means you might as well make a log-off trap because of the system jump + align + warp + deceleration + cyno up + jump time delay will be too long to be usable. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3562
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Posted - 2017.01.25 15:43:58 -
[53] - Quote
Gungnir Winder wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:oh cool so now on top of fuel costs i need to spend about 80mil on a suicide command dessi any time i need to move goods
So let me understand, earlier in the topic you're saying that eve shouldn't be fair, sudden spaceships, bla bla...now you want things to be easy and fair for you ? How convenient. Again mate, you have no idea what you're talking about, really.
what?
fair and unbalancing eves economy are two very very different things. you say i have no idea what i'm talking about but i think it's you who cant think past your own "i don't like getting dropped" attitude long enough to see how this impacts the rest of eve
BLOPS Hauler
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3562
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Posted - 2017.01.25 15:46:06 -
[54] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Gungnir Winder wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:
Then at least state which ship should be allowed to run cynos since it is a hugely important point.
I thought something like command destroyers, maybe more tanky and a bit faster. As I stated I don't want people to stop hotdropping or make it so useless that it will be practically unusable. You should be able to do everything you do now but with only one class/role ship. So definately something tanky and fast, able to reach a battlefield fast enough to provide capital support. So you expect corp/alliance logistics to source multiple command destroyer + alts skilled into it to move stuff around? Have you ever run logistics for any size of corp/alliance to have an idea what this mean for them and by association, any line member fed by those jump freighter services? You also expect a 0 velocity DD hull to withstand any kind of pressure long enough for people to be able to click jump, let alone setup a bridge and then clicking the titan and selecting jump? Any bait with a dedicated **** would be absolutely impossible to miss since those whip would have the "cyno ship" label attached to them. Your idea of having the cyno ship in another system waiting means you might as well make a log-off trap because of the system jump + align + warp + deceleration + cyno up + jump time delay will be too long to be usable.
you don't understand this guy only gets dropped on he has no idea the amount of effort and organization JFs take let alone a hot drop.
as far as he is concerned cynos are some how just "i win buttons"
BLOPS Hauler
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Havenard
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
33
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Posted - 2017.01.25 17:58:42 -
[55] - Quote
The way I see it cynos are well balanced the way they are now. As many have stated already, this isn't a solo game, you can't expect a ratter to hold his own against a fleet without being able to call for back up. Because if he can't, what was the point of joining an alliance in the first place?
If you plan on intruding a nullsec corp's space, kicking doors and killing their miners, you are to expect resistance, and they deserve the upper hand, it's their space, they fought for it, they upgraded it, they live there, and they won't be harassed that easily.
Working as intented, stop whining.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3566
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Posted - 2017.01.25 18:00:52 -
[56] - Quote
Havenard wrote:The way I see it cynos are well balanced the way they are now. As many have stated already, this isn't a solo game, you can't expect a ratter to hold his own against a fleet without being able to call for back up. Because if he can't, what was the point of joining an alliance in the first place?
If you plan on intruding a nullsec corp's space, kicking doors and killing their miners, you are to expect resistance, and they deserve the upper hand, it's their space, they fought for it, they upgraded it, they live there, and they won't be harassed that easily.
Working as intented, stop whining.
Converselycynos are probably the best tool for harassing well set up alliances in their own space
BLOPS Hauler
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Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
712
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Posted - 2017.01.25 19:09:15 -
[57] - Quote
yeah.... cyno's and dropping is FAR less prevalent than it was pre-fatigue. Literally everything bigger than a destroyer in space had a cyno on it.
This issue has been resolved.
The issue you're mistaking cyno's for is the polarization of Eve, leading to a few large groups with huge fleets of caps and super caps, with the smaller groups being few and far between.
/thread.
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5205
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Posted - 2017.01.25 22:28:00 -
[58] - Quote
Gungnir Winder wrote:Danika Princip wrote:
And you have not provided any justification for forcing huge parts of the game, in combat, industry and logistics, should be utterly reliant on one type of ship and only that one type of ship. Nor have you said anything at all about why co-ordination is bad, why fleets are bad, why bait is bad, why ratters being able to actually do something about your elite solo pvp boat is bad, why moving jump freighters and rorquals around is bad...
Never commented on any of the topics you mentioned. But for the sake of giving perspective, I do not think that co-ordination, fleets, bait, or ratters being able to defend themselves are bad things. Please read before posting. Thanks. Edit: Typos
Please think before posting. Your suggestion has massive effects on all of the things I mentioned that you are refusing to even consider.
If you don't think that limiting cynos to a command destroyer hull is going to hurt ratters dropping their friends on your face, then you seriously need to sit in the corner and have a nice long think. |
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
664
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Posted - 2017.01.26 04:58:04 -
[59] - Quote
Gungnir Winder wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:oh cool so now on top of fuel costs i need to spend about 80mil on a suicide command dessi any time i need to move goods
So let me understand, earlier in the topic you're saying that eve shouldn't be fair, sudden spaceships, bla bla...now you want things to be easy and fair for you ? How convenient. Again mate, you have no idea what you're talking about, really.
a JF pilot's job is already hard man.
you know you and your alliance uses logistics too right? you wanna make thier hauling life even more PITA?
Just Add Water
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5779
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Posted - 2017.01.26 05:51:44 -
[60] - Quote
Gungnir Winder wrote:Danika Princip wrote:
And you have not provided any justification for forcing huge parts of the game, in combat, industry and logistics, should be utterly reliant on one type of ship and only that one type of ship. Nor have you said anything at all about why co-ordination is bad, why fleets are bad, why bait is bad, why ratters being able to actually do something about your elite solo pvp boat is bad, why moving jump freighters and rorquals around is bad...
Never commented on any of the topics you mentioned. But for the sake of giving perspective, I do not think that co-ordination, fleets, bait, or ratters being able to defend themselves are bad things. Please read before posting. Thanks. Edit: Typos
No, you haven't commented on any of those things and that is why your OP and your idea sucks.
"The cyno is an outdated mechanic." Yet you fail to explain why. People still use it and it is still useful...so how is it outdated? Is it like a gallon of mill left too long in the fridge?
"They cyno is unbalanced." Again you fail to explain why this is the case. As has been pointed out the cyno is only one part of the thing you are complaining about. There is the need for the jump portal generator and the fleet to be able to do what you are complaining about.
The cyno is also a way to turn the tables on a group. For example, a gate camp will likely see a larger hostile force coming and bugger off well before there is even a chance to engage. But with a heavily tanked cyno ship that can be changed. But putting in a dedicated cyno ship and restricting cynos on all other ships basically says, "Okay, every one bugger off here come the cyno and the larger gang."
Your suggestion, quite simply, reduces uncertainty and uncertainty is part of what makes this game fun and interesting. Does that ship have a cyno should be a good question. By putting in a dedicated cyno ship there is now no doubt. Yes, that ship has a cyno.
Nope, -1.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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