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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5784
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Posted - 2017.01.28 07:16:05 -
[91] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Gungnir Winder wrote:
The only thing I said is that Cynos should be reworked because they're a powerful mechanic which is favoring larger groups with bigger numbers and better wallets.
Uhhhmmm... I benefit from cynos and I am not part of a large group nor is my wallet big relative to larger groups. I use them for doing industrial stuff. My typical cyno ship is a noob ship. I like it because once I put a stack of cynos and LO in a station in my cyno chain if I lose the noob ship, I just dock and viola...new cyno ship. Now you want to take that away from me because larger groups are using the cyno to their advantage....kind of like how I am. I do not think anyone is talking about taking cynos away...
You want to take away the ease of use. FFS I thought that was farking obvious from the context. Guess not.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5784
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Posted - 2017.01.28 07:25:09 -
[92] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Borat Guereen wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Gungnir Winder wrote:
The only thing I said is that Cynos should be reworked because they're a powerful mechanic which is favoring larger groups with bigger numbers and better wallets.
Uhhhmmm... I benefit from cynos and I am not part of a large group nor is my wallet big relative to larger groups. I use them for doing industrial stuff. My typical cyno ship is a noob ship. I like it because once I put a stack of cynos and LO in a station in my cyno chain if I lose the noob ship, I just dock and viola...new cyno ship. Now you want to take that away from me because larger groups are using the cyno to their advantage....kind of like how I am. I do not think anyone is talking about taking cynos away... no you are just making them nearly unusable by all but large groups
Which is ironic because he is complaining about large groups using cynos.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Borat Guereen
Chao3 Chao3 Alliance
84
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Posted - 2017.01.28 07:29:42 -
[93] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Borat Guereen wrote:
But as you brought up this subject, here here are some other thoughts I have had on the subject - Make cyno inhibitors easier to use, for example by allowing to scoop them back and increasing the range to the full grid. - Have cynos visble on each ship models when fitted - Make cynos prevent nullification - create a ship class or a module only available for certain ships able to interrupt cynos defensively in the middle, and stagger the bridging to one ship per second ...
Overall, I do believe cynos play too large a role in the domination of big group and their capability to project overwhelming forces, and this is a discussion I would carry forward if I were to be elected to CSM XII.
Please explain to us how larger groups would not exploit the **** out of these changes?
Candidate for CSM XII
Check our Minarchist Space Project!
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3617
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Posted - 2017.01.28 07:37:05 -
[94] - Quote
doouble
BLOPS Hauler
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3617
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Posted - 2017.01.28 07:37:51 -
[95] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote: how anything that has been said would prevent you from using the cynos the way you described you do above?
... i already explained that
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:another way us smaller groups use Cynos is to hit larger groups ratting and mining infrastructure where it hurts. You can do this enough and completely destabilize a group many many times your size. right now we can do this using a cepter. it looks just like any innocent travel ship until the cyno goes up. If we have to have a big THIS IS A CYNO sign every intel ch in the area will light up about it. if there is a ship that can stop or drastically Nerf any cyno they will be trained as an alt by every ratter and miner and toed around with them. If you make cyno inhibs cheap or reusable they will be placed in every belt and anom
and this is only in the context of small v large this doesn't even begin to touch on small v small
BLOPS Hauler
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5786
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Posted - 2017.01.28 07:39:10 -
[96] - Quote
Borat Guereen,
You are going off the rails as soon as you base your thinking on, "We should do something against (for) [insert group]." The problem with this kind of thinking in this game is that there is nothing from stopping other groups from seeing that change and then using it to their advantage.
In fact, this is pretty much what is wrong with all of politics. At the risk of drawing the ire of ISD....when you use policy to essentially discriminate between groups you create incentives for groups to manipulate the policy process. This is true in real life and, IMO, it is true in game/on the forums.
Let me give you an example. A while back CCP changed the character creation process. Used to be you'd pick a profession. My very first character was a miner, that is the profession I picked. Being brand new to the game I thought it would be fun to build this huge industrial empire. Then I tried mining for a bit and said, "Wow, this is boring," and took another players advice and created this character. But CCP decided to change that, and part of the change was to eliminate the starting SP and instead double training times. Sounds good right? Well older more established players used this new process to basically train characters quickly and efficiently to suit their needs. They were able to "out do" the newer players. They could furnish their new characters with all the skill books they needed and could much more effectively optimize training plans. CCP did this to give a boost to "new players". But it didn't quite work the way they intended.
Now a change that avoided this pitfall, IMO, was the removal of skill queue limitation. Instead of limiting to 24 hours they removed this arbitrary limit. This way people could set up long term skill plans and not have to worry about. It did not provide a significant, if any, benefit to any sub grouping of players. It was simply a change to make the game better.
The OP has been saying:
Cynos are outdated. But he fails to explain this. Cynos are unbalanced. Again he fails to explain this. He almost obstinately refuses to consider that people use cynos in ways he is not considering.
This is not a good position. This is a **** position. It can be summarized as, "I don't like cynos, so lets change them in this arbitrary manner....because I don't like cynos." I think I'd find it more persuasive if he had written, "I don't like cynos, because of sheep ****."
Now you come along and provide a list of things that can be used and even "abused" by larger groups because larger groups are using cynos to dominate others. Again not very persuasive. In fact, you should go with, "I don't like cynos, because of sheep ****."
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5786
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Posted - 2017.01.28 07:42:35 -
[97] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Borat Guereen wrote:
But as you brought up this subject, here here are some other thoughts I have had on the subject - Make cyno inhibitors easier to use, for example by allowing to scoop them back and increasing the range to the full grid. - Have cynos visble on each ship models when fitted - Make cynos prevent nullification - create a ship class or a module only available for certain ships able to interrupt cynos defensively in the middle, and stagger the bridging to one ship per second ...
Overall, I do believe cynos play too large a role in the domination of big group and their capability to project overwhelming forces, and this is a discussion I would carry forward if I were to be elected to CSM XII.
Please explain to us how larger groups would not exploit the **** out of these changes? dang, forum ate my response :( gist is, those are suggestions for the discussion, needing fine tuning to avoid exploit. It is indeed important to find solutions that do not make larger groups even more powerful, which is always challenging. I do believe this is a worthwhile discussion though, cynos as they are directly participate to the domination of blobs, by making moving them around too easy...
Is this a serious response or did the forums eat your actual response.....
Okay, the forums ate your response.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3617
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Posted - 2017.01.28 07:56:43 -
[98] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:I do believe this is a worthwhile discussion though, cynos as they are directly participate to the domination of blobs, by making moving them around too easy...
... what are you talking about blobs were around b4 cynos blobs exist because more ppl = more dps and more total EHP. with out completely upending how eve works at the core blobs will always dominate. But cynos help you deal with groups that often blob by letting you attack them before they are ready
BLOPS Hauler
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5786
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Posted - 2017.01.28 08:13:59 -
[99] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Borat Guereen wrote:
But as you brought up this subject, here here are some other thoughts I have had on the subject - Make cyno inhibitors easier to use, for example by allowing to scoop them back and increasing the range to the full grid. - Have cynos visble on each ship models when fitted - Make cynos prevent nullification - create a ship class or a module only available for certain ships able to interrupt cynos defensively in the middle, and stagger the bridging to one ship per second ...
Overall, I do believe cynos play too large a role in the domination of big group and their capability to project overwhelming forces, and this is a discussion I would carry forward if I were to be elected to CSM XII.
Please explain to us how larger groups would not exploit the **** out of these changes? dang, forum ate my response :( gist is, those are suggestions for the discussion, needing fine tuning to avoid exploit. It is indeed important to find solutions that do not make larger groups even more powerful, which is always challenging. I do believe this is a worthwhile discussion though, cynos as they are directly participate to the domination of blobs, by making moving them around too easy...
I've looked at your characters age so assuming you are not posting with an alt....
You should have seen how bad it was prior to the current changes. People would literally take jump bridges, titan bridges and move regions in a matter of minutes. Once during a war, there was a Sov issue for N3. (IIRC) while they were deployed in Fountain...they took all their supers back to the other side of the map and secured that space and were back in Fountain within a few days. They were jumping probably close to 1,000 light years for each player. They had to jump across the galaxy. Jump all around the regions they held, and then jump back across the galaxy to fountain.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Borat Guereen
Chao3 Chao3 Alliance
84
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Posted - 2017.01.28 08:41:30 -
[100] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Borat Guereen, You are going off the rails as soon as you base your thinking on, "We should do something against (for) [insert group]." The problem with this kind of thinking in this game is that there is nothing from stopping other groups from seeing that change and then using it to their advantage. ...
This is part of the challenges on every new suggestion for the game.
I believe there are features that can be designed with an edge toward certain groups because of what they target. For exemple, siphons targeting passive moon income could have boosted the small groups if they had been iterated on properly, because it is more likely that large groups, or small groups backed by large groups own and protect moon POS. So smaller groups not yet at that stage could not be the target themselves of siphons, making siphons a small group friendlier tool, even if large groups could use the same siphons against other larger groups.
For cynos, currently its effect occurs regardless of size of groups. I am interested by ideas that could curtail this a bit. At the moment, the suggestion of forcing the bridging ship to also jump is a direction I believe in, hence my campaign paragraph on this subject, and my support about this issue raised by the OP who seem to share the same issues about cynos that I do. How to make cynos affect the capacity of larger groups to project their forces without affecting smaller groups as much is still a question mark.
Candidate for CSM XII
Check our Minarchist Space Project!
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5786
|
Posted - 2017.01.28 08:54:19 -
[101] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Borat Guereen, You are going off the rails as soon as you base your thinking on, "We should do something against (for) [insert group]." The problem with this kind of thinking in this game is that there is nothing from stopping other groups from seeing that change and then using it to their advantage. ...
This is part of the challenges on every new suggestion for the game. I believe there are features that can be designed with an edge toward certain groups because of what they target. For exemple, siphons targeting passive moon income could have boosted the small groups if they had been iterated on properly, because it is more likely that large groups, or small groups backed by large groups own and protect moon POS. So smaller groups not yet at that stage could not be the target themselves of siphons, making siphons a small group friendlier tool, even if large groups could use the same siphons against other larger groups. For cynos, currently its effect occurs regardless of size of groups. I am interested by ideas that could curtail this a bit. At the moment, the suggestion of forcing the bridging ship to also jump is a direction I believe in, hence my campaign paragraph on this subject, and my support about this issue raised by the OP who seem to share the same issues about cynos that I do. How to make cynos affect the capacity of larger groups to project their forces without affecting smaller groups as much is still a question mark.
Siphons are not aimed at any one group. A large group could use them against another large group as part of a low grade offensive.
And yes, the effects of cynos are not geared towards large groups or small groups. That is why your ideas and the OPs are flawed. You are trying to help small groups, but you are not. For example, you'd be making my industry work, which I do pretty much independently, much harder. While I am part of a "larger group" this is something I do separate from them.
I'm sorry, you need to get rid of this attitude of we need to help this group or that group and focus on changes that simply make the game better. Better for large groups, small groups, solo players, etc.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Gungnir Winder
V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA
190
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Posted - 2017.01.28 10:53:33 -
[102] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: For example, you'd be making my industry work, which I do pretty much independently, much harder.
How exactly would it make your industry work much harder ? We do not want to remove cynos and I imagine you do your industry work in safe places so I don't know how it would even remotely affect you. You sound like you're just averse to change honestly.
My Youtube channel-á Gungnir Winder
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3621
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Posted - 2017.01.28 10:59:25 -
[103] - Quote
Gungnir Winder wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: For example, you'd be making my industry work, which I do pretty much independently, much harder. How exactly would it make your industry work much harder ? We do not want to remove cynos and I imagine you do your industry work in safe places so I don't know how it would even remotely affect you. You sound like you're just averse to change honestly.
this has been explained several times at this point you are just being willfully ignorant
BLOPS Hauler
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Gungnir Winder
V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA
190
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Posted - 2017.01.28 11:04:31 -
[104] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
this has been explained several times at this point you are just being willfully ignorant
I'm pretty sure people who can afford to move stuff in their 7b Jump Freighter could afford to lose a 50-100m ship once in a while.
You're just being willfully unpractical.
My Youtube channel-á Gungnir Winder
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3623
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Posted - 2017.01.28 11:15:52 -
[105] - Quote
if by once in a while you mean every jump that has a neut in system... you really don't know anything about how this game works beyond your own little bubble do you?
BLOPS Hauler
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5786
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Posted - 2017.01.28 11:25:53 -
[106] - Quote
Gungnir Winder wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: For example, you'd be making my industry work, which I do pretty much independently, much harder. How exactly would it make your industry work much harder ? We do not want to remove cynos and I imagine you do your industry work in safe places so I don't know how it would even remotely affect you. You sound like you're just averse to change honestly.
You don't know what you are talking about then. I use a JF to get around Uedama and Niarja. I also use a JF to get stuff to where I do my industrial work. Having to put a cyno on a vastly more expensive ship with mean a significant reduction in my profit margins.
Maybe you need to to pull your head out of your fourth point on contact when other players who know more than you tell you...you have your head firmly ensconced between your butt cheeks.
Gungnir Winder wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:
And yes, the effects of cynos are not geared towards large groups or small groups. That is why your ideas and the OPs are flawed.
Even though I have a slight bias in towards helping the smaller groups and my posts seem to imply that (which at some degree they do) I mostly want Cynos to be finally acknowledged as a very powerful-game changing mechanic and as such they should have their own role/requirements/risks IN ADDITION to those already existing.
How about you go off in a corner and finally come up with a ****ing argument instead of just repeating your assertions as if mere repetition will make them true. You have literally no argument. None at all. You merely assert things like "Cynos are outdated" but completely and totally fail to even make a fig leaf of an argument. And stop being so obstinately pig-headed and listen to some of the things others are telling you. Such as my case. You know ****-all about how I run my operations and where. Instead you assume you do and you end up looking like an ignoramus.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5786
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Posted - 2017.01.28 11:37:02 -
[107] - Quote
Gungnir Winder wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
this has been explained several times at this point you are just being willfully ignorant
I'm pretty sure people who can afford to move stuff in their 7b Jump Freighter could afford to lose a 50-100m ship once in a while. You're just being willfully unpractical.
There you go sticking your head where the sun doesn't shine.
If we can only put a cyno on a 60 million ISK ship then cyno ships will get blown alot more than "once in a while".
Seriously, think about how these kinds of changes will change people's behavior.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Gungnir Winder
V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA
190
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Posted - 2017.01.28 12:30:30 -
[108] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:[quote=Gungnir Winder] If we can only put a cyno on a 60 million ISK ship then cyno ships will get blown alot more than "once in a while".
Seriously, think about how these kinds of changes will change people's behavior.
So what ? They could add different kind of ships for different kind of cynos, I mean there are multiple solutions.
But again you refuse to even consider such things.
Great attitude.
My argument is that cyno warfare is and will disrupt subcap pvp to a point where this will become capital online. I mean there are literally people who use combat rorquals (lul) to drop people.
How far do we have to go to realize it's time to stop this non-sense?
My Youtube channel-á Gungnir Winder
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3625
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Posted - 2017.01.28 12:55:52 -
[109] - Quote
except the amount of capitals in game exploded years ago capital prices have stabilized and the amount of them in game has stayed relatively the same and yet... get this, it did not become capitals online. in fact over the last few years we have seen frigs and cruisers become the kings of PvP even at block level.
there is currently no cyno problem nothing has changed to make cynos become more of a problem so... what is the problem?
BLOPS Hauler
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5214
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Posted - 2017.01.28 12:57:27 -
[110] - Quote
Gungnir Winder wrote: How far do we have to go to realize it's time to stop this non-sense?
Well, first of all, you can start by realising that small groups actually use cynos against big groups literally every. single. day. and that your idea would prevent them from doing this. As multiple members of both small and large groups have been telling you for five pages now... |
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3625
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Posted - 2017.01.28 13:02:46 -
[111] - Quote
you claim that cynos and capitals have become more and more of a problem yet admit yourself that you have no way to prove it. if anything since fatigue capitals are now being used far less with them being used far more for strategic purposes and less for the lulz in case they need that pilot before their fatigue runs out. do ppl still drop for the lulz? yes but that is not an issue.
lets break it down
are cynos impossible to predict? no
are Cynos counter-able? yes in many different ways and at many different points in an engagement
can both large and small groups use them effectively? yes
do they overwhelmingly advantage one size over the other? no each size can use them in different ways to great effect
all that sounds pretty damn balanced to me.
BLOPS Hauler
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2905
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Posted - 2017.01.28 13:06:48 -
[112] - Quote
Combat rorqus are being dropped because of low fat, lots of DPS, invulnerability and rep bonuses -- basically they are old carriers --, not because of cynos.
Your attitude is not much better either, according to your own standards. Just because you are not capable of determining whether something highly likely has a cyno, you demand changes to the mechanics.
And in case you have not noticed: EVE is capitals online for at least 4 years now. This will not change because of the introduction of a dedicated cyno ship, not in fleet fights and not for drops on incompetent ratter hunters. What it will change, however, and for the worse is logistics. I am already eagerly looking forward to a time when I have to stomach even more losses to my business because I cannot increase prices on market or contracts since other people don't give a bovine waste about lost ships.
In conclusion, your suggestions improves nothing about your "plight", but makes an already utterly tiresome, expensive and time consuming task even worse. Great prospect.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3625
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Posted - 2017.01.28 13:23:01 -
[113] - Quote
what part of eve have you been in that it became capitals online? i mean back with the old carriers and no fatigue i would have agreed but now?
BLOPS Hauler
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Gungnir Winder
V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA
190
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Posted - 2017.01.28 14:06:32 -
[114] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:what part of eve have you been in that it became capitals online? i mean back with the old carriers and no fatigue i would have agreed but now?
Yeah, no capitals at all I agree.
My Youtube channel-á Gungnir Winder
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3625
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Posted - 2017.01.28 14:11:16 -
[115] - Quote
yep because eve is either all capital or no capital you're right
BLOPS Hauler
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Borat Guereen
Chao3 Chao3 Alliance
84
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Posted - 2017.01.28 19:44:05 -
[116] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
And yes, the effects of cynos are not geared towards large groups or small groups. That is why your ideas and the OPs are flawed. You are trying to help small groups, but you are not. For example, you'd be making my industry work, which I do pretty much independently, much harder. While I am part of a "larger group" this is something I do separate from them.
I'm sorry, you need to get rid of this attitude of we need to help this group or that group and focus on changes that simply make the game better. Better for large groups, small groups, solo players, etc.
Well, good try to mind other people's thoughts under false pretenses. If you go through my camnpaign thread, you can read about features that have only helped a certain group of people at the detriment of others.
I understand I threaten your play style, a blend of "independence" while still benefitting from belonging to larger groups. This is not the play-style I fight for.
Candidate for CSM XII
Check our Minarchist Space Project!
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Borat Guereen
Chao3 Chao3 Alliance
84
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Posted - 2017.01.28 20:04:03 -
[117] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: can both large and small groups use them effectively? yes
do they overwhelmingly advantage one size over the other? no each size can use them in different ways to great effect
all that sounds pretty damn balanced to me.
We will agree to disagree.
You refuse to take in account the fact that moving larger number of ships instantaneously through distances with one bridging ship does not even require scaling up the number of bridging ship according to numbers. As it is, it exponentially increases the benefit of cynos to larger groups, with the means to field instantly many ships across regions.
Fortunately, those reading this can make up their mind themselves and have the possibility to express their opinion through CSM votes.
I would not run for CSM if I did not believe a high number of smaller group and solo players are also lurking on this forum, like I used to before deciding to run. Like me they could be fed up by the control of the larger groups over the features of a game we all share, favoring their play-style over more independent play-styles.
I wish posting on forums had the same requirements than being a candidate for CSM now have, i.e. you could only post with your most well known alt instead of alts so as to see better where argumentations really comes from.
Candidate for CSM XII
Check our Minarchist Space Project!
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5787
|
Posted - 2017.01.28 20:06:34 -
[118] - Quote
Gungnir Winder wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:[quote=Gungnir Winder] If we can only put a cyno on a 60 million ISK ship then cyno ships will get blown alot more than "once in a while".
Seriously, think about how these kinds of changes will change people's behavior. So what ? They could add different kind of ships for different kind of cynos, I mean there are multiple solutions. But again you refuse to even consider such things. Great attitude. My argument is that cyno warfare is and will disrupt subcap pvp to a point where this will become capital online. I mean there are literally people who use combat rorquals (lul) to drop people. How far do we have to go to realize it's time to stop this non-sense?
So what? Like I said that is a significant portion of my profits. And for what? So people can blow up more expensive ships that can't move, can't dock, can't cloak?
And then you say, "I don't want cheap easy kills."
You have not given a single reason why this would be good.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5787
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Posted - 2017.01.28 21:53:22 -
[119] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Gungnir Winder wrote: How far do we have to go to realize it's time to stop this non-sense?
Well, first of all, you can start by realising that small groups actually use cynos against big groups literally every. single. day. and that your idea would prevent them from doing this. As multiple members of both small and large groups have been telling you for five pages now...
Actually I'd like him to explain why it is nonsense. I mean yeah, it sounds unusual using a rorqual in a hot drop....but then they changed rorquals so maybe not. Sometimes players using things in the game in novel ways such as Rooks & Kings fake POS which use a hictor for the POS shields.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i4qlF_9__4
Further, the OP has tried to argue that certain ships are dedicated in game for certain things. This is not true. Sure some hulls have very generous bonuses for things like neuts or webs, but they can be fit without those things. That is they are not dedicated ships, but ships where fitting those bonuses modules has a considerable incentive.
Stop repeating over and over, "Well it is bad." Explain why it is bad. And no, "It benefits large groups," is not very persuasive because cynos benefit small groups too. And if anything a larger group will be able to work with a restriction whereas a smaller group might not have the capability of adapting.
Let me clue some people in about evolution and adaptation. Most organisms don't adapt and they go extinct. A larger organization might very well be more adaptable because they have more resources and more people, and the latter allows for more ideas and innovation to the new change. Note, I am not saying small groups can't adapt, but that it might be possible that lots of small groups may not be able too.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5787
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Posted - 2017.01.28 22:01:03 -
[120] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:
And yes, the effects of cynos are not geared towards large groups or small groups. That is why your ideas and the OPs are flawed. You are trying to help small groups, but you are not. For example, you'd be making my industry work, which I do pretty much independently, much harder. While I am part of a "larger group" this is something I do separate from them.
I'm sorry, you need to get rid of this attitude of we need to help this group or that group and focus on changes that simply make the game better. Better for large groups, small groups, solo players, etc.
Well, good try to mind other people's thoughts under false pretenses. If you go through my camnpaign thread, you can read about features that have only helped a certain group of people at the detriment of others. I understand I threaten your play style, a blend of "independence" while still benefitting from belonging to larger groups. This is not the play-style I fight for.
You don't see a problem with threatening play styles via game/mechanics changes? I don't think you understand the concept of the sandbox at all.
And the notion of helping one group over an other has the very real problem of rent seeking--i.e. groups moaning and moaning until CCP caters to their whines and they get a benefit (or so they think) over other groups. Thing is this often has a way of blowing up in everyone's face.
And here is the thing, now you are ignoring the point I made. It is not that my play style is threatened, but that it goes exactly contrary to your claim. And you have no response at all. Your solution would not impact just large groups but small groups and even individual players. You are a dogmatist.
Oh, and this is my main asshat. I keep my industrial alts as anonymous as possible.
And no, there should be few if any restrictions on posting on the forums. Or does the idea of having people show up and challenge your ideas really bother you that much? Guess that doesn't say much about your ideas. But then since you prefer to discriminate between players and play styles we already knew what we needed to know about you.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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