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Helios Grim
Perkone Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2017.01.24 18:00:26 -
[1] - Quote
I'm just beginning carrier ratting in null sec with a Nidhoggur and was hoping to get some input on what skills I should have at what levels such as fighters IV or etc. Also, what size of fighters should I be fielding regularly? I am ratting Angel Cartel. |
Wander Prian
Art Of Explosions Hole Control
360
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Posted - 2017.01.24 19:17:52 -
[2] - Quote
Helios Grim wrote:I'm just beginning carrier ratting in null sec with a Nidhoggur and was hoping to get some input on what skills I should have at what levels such as fighters IV or etc. Also, what size of fighters should I be fielding regularly? I am ratting Angel Cartel.
If you feel like you need to ask these questions, in the new player Q&A of all places, you shouldn't be flying a capital...
Wormholer for life.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
11421
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Posted - 2017.01.24 20:50:34 -
[3] - Quote
I am also going to echo the above.
Flying a capital ship is the least "newbie" you can get.
Moreover, if you have to ask questions like these for an expensive and hyperspecialized ship in order to perform a basic farming tactic... you should probably take a step back... use a VASTLY cheaper ship... and watch how others use said expensive ships first.
How did you Veterans start?
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Helios Grim
Perkone Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2017.01.24 21:02:40 -
[4] - Quote
Is that to say I shouldn't learn anything I don't already understand? Then perhaps a newbie should never mine because they don't know how to use a mining laser. None of that was helpful. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
11421
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Posted - 2017.01.24 21:16:11 -
[5] - Quote
Let me put it another way;
- you are asking us basic fitting questions that you should have learned at the frigate level
- you are asking about a very expensive ship that requires support from other people so that it will not die against the first hostile you encounter (see: hostile player frigates are a threat to you)
- you are asking how to "rat"... which is another thing you should have picked up as a true newbie (because honestly.... ratting in high-sec is no different than Null-sec in terms of mechanics... merely difficulty)
From my standpoint, you are setting yourself up for a massive loss (and yes, you WILL lose this ship if you are asking such basic 101 questions) and potentially ragequit from the game.
We really do mean well. And we are telling you that you are not ready to even know about the details of capital ships yet. Not until you can grasp basic ship fitting and strengths/weaknesses.
How did you Veterans start?
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
11421
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Posted - 2017.01.24 21:19:26 -
[6] - Quote
Another way to put it:
You are asking tank pilots "what fuel does it use" and "what kind of ammo should it have" after explaining that you want to go deer hunting in one... in Somolia.
How did you Veterans start?
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1875
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Posted - 2017.01.24 22:05:37 -
[7] - Quote
This feels like a troll post to me.
If it's not then the OP has not really played this game and just logged in to maintain his queue for a couple years, waiting for his skills to train so that he could just jump right into "end game" content.
If he's a troll IMHO he should be ignored. If it's the second option then I think he would figure out that there is no short cutting learning this game and that there is no end game in this sandbox the hard way. |
Helios Grim
Perkone Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2017.01.24 23:30:58 -
[8] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:This feels like a troll post to me.
If it's not then the OP has not really played this game and just logged in to maintain his queue for a couple years, waiting for his skills to train so that he could just jump right into "end game" content.
If he's a troll IMHO he should be ignored. If it's the second option then I think he would figure out that there is no short cutting learning this game and that there is no end game in this sandbox the hard way.
What part of this discussion suggests I'm not actually seeking help? And frankly I'm agitated that anyone would say after more than 3 years I didn't earn my wings like everyone else.
Back to subject, I would greatly appreciate any help, and I will also keep in mind the well meant warnings listed above. What fighter skills should I have to effectively rat in null sec in a carrier, and what tonnage should they be? |
Wander Prian
Art Of Explosions Hole Control
362
|
Posted - 2017.01.25 01:22:33 -
[9] - Quote
Helios Grim wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:This feels like a troll post to me.
If it's not then the OP has not really played this game and just logged in to maintain his queue for a couple years, waiting for his skills to train so that he could just jump right into "end game" content.
If he's a troll IMHO he should be ignored. If it's the second option then I think he would figure out that there is no short cutting learning this game and that there is no end game in this sandbox the hard way. What part of this discussion suggests I'm not actually seeking help? And frankly I'm agitated that anyone would say after more than 3 years I didn't earn my wings like everyone else. Back to subject, I would greatly appreciate any help, and I will also keep in mind the well meant warnings listed above. What fighter skills should I have to effectively rat in null sec in a carrier, and what tonnage should they be?
The fact that you are asking for the SIZE of thefighters already points that you have not read about the capital mechanics. The fact that you are asking about fitting in here, instead of the ship&module-subforum is also a pretty bad sign. We aren't being mean. Just trying to save you from a few billion lossmail.
Wormholer for life.
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Neuntausend
Rens Nursing Home
1371
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Posted - 2017.01.25 01:37:26 -
[10] - Quote
Ah, don't listen to those stick-in-the muds. Surely you know how to rat, no? It's not so different with a carrier. Just check if your skills are good enough to actually be faster than with whatever you typically fly for ratting, and if so, just go ahead and do it. Make sure to fit a cyno, align out while in the site, watch local and be in the standing fleet. (there IS a standing fleet, right?) |
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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2489
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Posted - 2017.01.25 02:06:41 -
[11] - Quote
nah skip the carrier and go right for the super carrier, the ticks are way YUGE!
Also officer fit everything possible, purples for days.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Vortexo VonBrenner
Raumfahrer Spiff Rakett Piloot Anslutning
2642
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Posted - 2017.01.25 10:05:47 -
[12] - Quote
Helios Grim wrote:What part of this discussion suggests I'm not actually seeking help? Asking carrier questions in New Citizen's Q & A. It's such a strange thing to do it makes people wonder if you are trolling.
EvE security zones in pictures
EvE quick reference pdf
EvE links
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Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
1806
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Posted - 2017.01.25 10:31:42 -
[13] - Quote
Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:Helios Grim wrote:What part of this discussion suggests I'm not actually seeking help? Asking carrier questions in New Citizen's Q & A. It's such a strange thing to do it makes people wonder if you are trolling.
To be fair, EVE is the game that has a basar for highly skilled pilots. When I would buy a carrier pilot and a carrier I had to ask a lot of stupid questions myself too - as I only fly subcaps. |
mkint
1408
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Posted - 2017.01.25 15:18:07 -
[14] - Quote
Hooray for $ for SP! Yeah, there's a reason the honor tank guy is still made fun of even all these years later. If you don't understand the most fundamental questions in EVE (how do I tank? What skills should I train? How do I make a loadout?) and then hop in a ship you haven't bothered learning anything about, you probably deserve the inevitable lossmail. My advice is to get back into a frigate and learn the games mechanics first. Either sell that SP back, or sit on it for a year or two until you've gained the experience you need to actually participate in end game content successfully.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
11429
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Posted - 2017.01.25 16:05:56 -
[15] - Quote
Quote:To be fair, EVE is the game that has a basar for highly skilled pilots. When I would buy a carrier pilot and a carrier I had to ask a lot of stupid questions myself too - as I only fly subcaps. To be fair... in my opinion... if you buy a lot of skillpoints or an older character so that you can fly big honking fleet level ships you give up any pretense of being a newbie and are essentially saying, "nah, I don't need to go through that learning process first... I got this!" And that means...
1. This question should be in Ships and Modules. 2. You will be treated the same way every other veteran who asks these kinds of questions will be (see: if you have to ask such basic questions about capitals, you should not fly them).
Now, if you are as capable with sub-capital ships as you say you are, then fitting up a carrier to kill NPCs should be trivial. And you should already have a firm grasp on how to look up ship requirements and how to get the most out of any ship you want to fly. And you should also quickly see why carrier ratting is VERY RISKY and can easily be done by a much cheaper sub-capital.
How did you Veterans start?
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
3882
|
Posted - 2017.01.25 16:17:07 -
[16] - Quote
carrier lvl 5 fighters lvl 5 fighter bombers lvl 5 jump drive calibration lvl 5 marauders lvl 5 all sub systems to lvl 5 once all thats done inject titan skill book and train to lvl 3
ignore the haters i got your back fam
Alliance Logo Design Service
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Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel
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Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
1806
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Posted - 2017.01.25 16:39:19 -
[17] - Quote
Valid points. And I don't even fly battleships much because I still lack the ISK and skill to do it comfortably. Everything with small and medium guns is just fine for me. And I am definitely not going to buy a carrier pilot. And even if I did I would ask carrier pilots in corp for help with the fitting and stay aligned to station all the time when ratting. And I also know that GÇ£Everybody come and halp, my ratting Hel got tackled, how should I know that neutral had a cyno?GÇ¥ is a perfect way to make yourself look like an idiot.
I just wanted to point out that the game design of EVE kind of encourages GÇ£newbie carrier pilotsGÇ¥. And I donGÇÖt like the GÇ£if you have to ask donGÇÖt fly itGÇ¥-answer much because why should I warn other pilots to fly expensive loot pi+¦atas? Go for it and see how it works out everyone. Some may succeed; some may lose it at the first day out.
ShahFluffers wrote:Quote:To be fair, EVE is the game that has a basar for highly skilled pilots. When I would buy a carrier pilot and a carrier I had to ask a lot of stupid questions myself too - as I only fly subcaps. To be fair... in my opinion... if you buy a lot of skillpoints or an older character so that you can fly big honking fleet level ships you give up any pretense of being a newbie and are essentially saying, "nah, I don't need to go through that learning process first... I got this!" And that means... 1. This question should be in Ships and Modules. 2. You will be treated the same way every other veteran who asks these kinds of questions will be (see: if you have to ask such basic questions about capitals, you should not fly them). Now, if you are as capable with sub-capital ships as you say you are, then fitting up a carrier to kill NPCs should be trivial. And you should already have a firm grasp on how to look up ship requirements and how to get the most out of any ship you want to fly. And you should also quickly see why carrier ratting is VERY RISKY and can easily be done by a much cheaper sub-capital. |
Fal Shepard
Vrtra Armamentarium
125
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Posted - 2017.01.25 16:50:53 -
[18] - Quote
I think the biggest misunderstanding here is that you may have posted this in the wrong channel. Even so, don't let these guys get to you. Yes, you sound like you have much to learn regarding capitals in general and should thoroughly research their usage and mechanics. If you still want to learn what skills and fitting you need, get on the singularity server and try out what works best. There's no penalty for losing one and they're all basically free.
From the ashes of our defeat, we will be reborn. With these chains with which we are bound, we will become indivisible. To those who showed us no mercy, we will give no sympathy. For the flames that burn our cities, we will douse in injustice's blood
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1169
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Posted - 2017.01.25 18:42:20 -
[19] - Quote
You didn't post in the wrong channel. And to you regulars, this isn't GD. If you really can't just answer the question or post something constructive.. well basically just get bent.
OP I think this is more of a min/maxer question, is the Nidhoggur your favorite ship? Does your alliance have enough PVP ops with capitals to justify going further or is it purely ISK/ticks? I've personally trained the Minmatar Carrier to IV and the Fighters to IV just because in the extreme amount of time taking it to V I could learn to do so many other things instead. I figure you're getting help from your alliance on this but if it's just outside opinions you're looking for then there's mine for what it's worth to you.
Good luck!
@lunettelulu7
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Keno Skir
1223
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Posted - 2017.01.25 19:32:37 -
[20] - Quote
You should do what you gotta do mate, but the vets here do have your best interests at heart.
The choice to warn you against the silly idea, or to encourage it and profit from your death is one we at NCQ&A have to make a lot. You must understand that the people who want you to do well in EvE are the ones saying "you're too new to fly carriers". The ones you need to watch out for are the ones who tell you it's a brilliant idea, since most likely they are also working on killing your new shiny at the same time as talk to you.
For the wasteman who told the regular helpers to "get bent" (Lulu), you haven't been here long enough to critique the work of actual regulars. If you had sat through the HUNDREDS of posts about what a **** game EvE is because whatever shiny got wrecked, only to discover the user had bought their way into a capital and imagined it would be death proof, you would not be so quick to condemn the extremely valid advice being dispensed by people who actually know what they're talking about.
Capitals REQUIRE experience in-game to be used with any degree of safety. If someone does not have this experience it can be assumed they bought the skills / character and SHOULD NOT be encouraged.
Think about it for just a sec Lulu, if we don't aim to help the guy we would tell him "yeah mate no problem all you need is this, this and this to IV, happy ratting". This advice would cause him to lose all his ISK and quit the game most likely same as all the others.
We're merely asserting that he should gain experience in game and not on the forums, and trying to prevent yet another rage quit as a result of upshipping WAY too fast.
Enjoy your carrier OP genuinely, none the less you ARE going to lose it due to inexperience with EvE and i hope you don't rage quit for long
<Gùï> 250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <Gùï>
Including ISK Bonus & In Game Assistance - Piracy / Wormhole Space / Covops PvP
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1172
|
Posted - 2017.01.25 20:19:41 -
[21] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:You should do what you gotta do mate, but the vets here do have your best interests at heart. The choice to warn you against the silly idea, or to encourage it and profit from your death is one we at NCQ&A have to make a lot. You must understand that the people who want you to do well in EvE are the ones saying "you're too new to fly carriers". The ones you need to watch out for are the ones who tell you it's a brilliant idea, since most likely they are also working on killing your new shiny at the same time as talk to you. For the wasteman who told the regular helpers to "get bent" (Lulu), you haven't been here long enough to critique the work of actual regulars. If you had sat through the HUNDREDS of posts about what a **** game EvE is because whatever shiny got wrecked, only to discover the user had bought their way into a capital and imagined it would be death proof, you would not be so quick to condemn the extremely valid advice being dispensed by people who actually know what they're talking about. Capitals REQUIRE experience in-game to be used with any degree of safety. If someone does not have this experience it can be assumed they bought the skills / character and SHOULD NOT be encouraged. Think about it for just a sec Lulu, if we don't aim to help the guy we would tell him "yeah mate no problem all you need is this, this and this to IV, happy ratting". This advice would cause him to lose all his ISK and quit the game most likely same as all the others. We're merely asserting that he should gain experience in game and not on the forums, and trying to prevent yet another rage quit as a result of upshipping WAY too fast. Enjoy your carrier OP genuinely, none the less you ARE going to lose it due to inexperience with EvE and i hope you don't rage quit for long
With respect,
I can see who else is doing some assuming! We don't know the real SP or extent of his real experience - but apparently asking about carriers is a no-no. I didn't see that sticky! Your post is most fair though and yeah, for me to tell everyone to get bent is a silly and broad generalization.
I am definitely aware that I haven't been here long enough for my posts to weigh enough or mean anything (new money) but there's also plenty of old money posters that really should just take their jaded **** somewhere else. I'm just here to whistleblow .. again.
I hope OP ain't a troll lol - (I'm sure he's more than aware of how vulnerable and expensive a Carrier is.. it's been a while since i've looked but there are Carrier guides everywhere that focus on one bit or another. If there was a recent, well written/structured video I'd certainly share it here.
@lunettelulu7
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mkint
1410
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Posted - 2017.01.26 03:27:32 -
[22] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:You should do what you gotta do mate, but the vets here do have your best interests at heart.
I'm not. I'm just a jerk.
I get frustrated when people start thinking "I spent the most $ so I should be the only one who can win! As long as I have more $ than you, no matter what happens, I still win!" The honor tanking guy deserved every last bit of grief he got between the moment he RMTd huge piles of isk and gear to the moment he got every last isk forcibly taken away from him. He was a turd.
I get flabbergasted when people who have legitimately played the game for a long period get to a point where they can make a huge investment but didn't bother to lay any of the ground work for that investment. A potential carrier pilot gets there legitimately, but sounds like he's never trained any other skills whatsoever, and like he has never been in any kind of a fight? That's ridiculous. You're playing the wrong game. You don't get to be a good carrier pilot by being a long time miner. Start over.
Both of those sound plausible based on the content of the OP, especially considering this section is NEW Citizens. There is no such thing as a rookie that SHOULD be flying a carrier. Even most vets would be better off avoiding them.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
664
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Posted - 2017.01.26 05:23:03 -
[23] - Quote
Lulu Lunette wrote:You didn't post in the wrong channel. And to you regulars, this isn't GD. If you really can't just answer the question or post something constructive.. well basically just get bent.
but they are giving constructive answers.
Just Add Water
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1875
|
Posted - 2017.01.26 11:51:33 -
[24] - Quote
Gregorius Goldstein wrote: I just wanted to point out that the game design of EVE kind of encourages GÇ£newbie carrier pilotsGÇ¥.
Could you please add more detail to this statement?
My experience of Eve is the exact opposite of what you are saying here.
At my first reading of that statement, my knee jerk reaction was that you've totally got the wrong idea of Eve and are imposing concepts learned in other MMOs onto Eve. I'm willing to consider that maybe I've missed something but I am very curious what makes you say this. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1875
|
Posted - 2017.01.26 12:16:25 -
[25] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:
Capitals REQUIRE experience in-game to be used with any degree of safety. If someone does not have this experience it can be assumed they bought the skills / character and SHOULD NOT be encouraged.
One of my corp mates, back when he was new, decided that he wanted to fly a Rorqual. I told him that he should just chill and learn the game and that there was nothing fun about fly a Rorqual. ( this was back before the recent changes when Rorqual pilots just sat inside PoS bubbles ). He ignored my advice and started a second account and focused on getting into a Rorqual as quickly as possible.
He purchased a Rorqual before he could even fly one and was pretty much watching the second tick away until the skill finished to board and undock in the ship. On his first cyno jump, trying to get his new cap ship home, he bounced off of a station in low sec and lost his Rorqual. He had literally spent only minutes in the cockpit of the ship before it became a loss mail.
He could not easily afford the loss of that ship. It took him a long time to save up for it and it was a huge set back for him. Worse yet even if he had not lost the ship he could not have even used it much as where we live there were free system wide full mining boosts available near.y 23 / 7. So it was a pointless ship for him to have and a pointless loss. The ship brought him no enjoyable gameplay and it's loss set him back greatly. Much risk for very little benefit.
Fast forward a couple years and that Rorqual alt of his doesn't seem to get much use. His main which flys mostly small and medium ships in PvP and medium and large ships to make isk is what still gets used the most for him.
IMHO the kind of people that want to get into cap ships as quickly as possible are playing Eve as if it were another WoW clone and trying to get "level capped" and get "decked out" to get to "end game content" as quickly as possible. I used to play WoW and in that game everything before level cap and being decked out in raiding gear was just to get you to that point. The "real game play" in that game only existed at level cap and with a decent gearscore.
Eve is a completely different game. You can participate in a meaningful way in pretty much all game activities from day 1. 10 years later you will still be flying a lot of the same ships that you flew in your first months of playing the game. Cap ships are not some OP legendary weapon that helps you pwn or anything like that. They are big, fat, slow, expensive ships that everyone is trying to get on the kill mail of. They have a specific purpose in large fleet engagements but are fairly useless everywhere else.
If you want to learn your lessons the hard way then by all means ignore all the advice of the experienced players here and continue your pursuit of getting decked out in purpules. |
Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
1814
|
Posted - 2017.01.26 15:17:23 -
[26] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:Gregorius Goldstein wrote: I just wanted to point out that the game design of EVE kind of encourages GÇ£newbie carrier pilotsGÇ¥.
Could you please add more detail to this statement? My experience of Eve is the exact opposite of what you are saying here. At my first reading of that statement, my knee jerk reaction was that you've totally got the wrong idea of Eve and are imposing concepts learned in other MMOs onto Eve. I'm willing to consider that maybe I've missed something but I am very curious what makes you say this.
There is no bound to character, bound to account, bound on equip or bound on pick up loot in EVE, most games I know have this concept to some extent. Usually you canGÇÖt buy GÇ£endgameGÇ¥ stuff with ingame currency and you canGÇÖt buy ingame currency with real money from the company running the game either. In a lot of games the best equipment drops from raids and endbosses, is quite rare and binds to the player picking it up. Or at least to the first account using the item. And is it absolutely not common that you can buy skills and GÇ£higlevelGÇ¥ characters for ingame and by proxy real money either. ThatGÇÖs because most games try to pretend there was no GÇ£pay to winGÇ¥ option and the best stuff can only be reached by the best players.
EVE is different. If you are willing to risk your money you are welcome to do so. You are not forced to grind raids until stuff drops, you are not forced to gather experience points until you reach the highest level, you can just buy everything. All you need is either time or money. The killmails and the drama this option generates are part of the EVE gameplay in my opinion. I totally agree, that everything in EVE letGÇÖs most people come to the conclusion that just buying yourself into big ships is a bad idea. Because it does not matter what skills your pilot has, your own players skills are what matters. BUT the option to bypass the journey is there and a small fraction of people will use it just because they can, why not, YOLO, no poors, whateverGǪ
CCP themselves tell their customers: GÇ£DonGÇÖt fly what you canGÇÖt afford to lose and bigger is not better.GÇ¥ But I am sure that they are 100% aware that this wonGÇÖt stop some players from doing it anyway. And I guess that they see this as part of content creation and perhaps are even quite happy about it because it generates cash and adds to the special GÇ£unforgivingGÇ¥ flavor of EVE. What is possible in EVE and what is an good idea are quite different things.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
3884
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Posted - 2017.01.26 15:28:17 -
[27] - Quote
thats not really encouraging GÇ£newbie carrier pilotsGÇ¥, any other mmo you can simply just rmt your way to the top stuff, ccp try to cut out rmt by offering the stuff themselves, so you are saying while other mmo's dont offer buying stuff from the company for real money they are essentially encouraging rmt?
Alliance Logo Design Service
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Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel
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Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
1814
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Posted - 2017.01.26 15:35:07 -
[28] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:thats not really encouraging GÇ£newbie carrier pilotsGÇ¥, any other mmo you can simply just rmt your way to the top stuff, ccp try to cut out rmt by offering the stuff themselves, so you are saying while other mmo's dont offer buying stuff from the company for real money they are essentially encouraging rmt?
Yeah, bad wording, sry. CCP encourages "Pay-to-Win" carrier pilots. And it is up to debate if you win anything that way. But you can do it without third party RMT and without the risk to get your account banned. That PLEX>ISK>Injector>morePLEX>bigShip chain is quite unique to EVE. Sure, some people may buy a MMO account on EBAY, but I think the "against the EULA" part hold most players back. To much risk of a ban. CCP got rid of that risk. That is all I say.
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Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
1814
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Posted - 2017.01.26 15:40:51 -
[29] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:
Capitals REQUIRE experience in-game to be used with any degree of safety. If someone does not have this experience it can be assumed they bought the skills / character and SHOULD NOT be encouraged.
But capitals REQUIRE no in game experience to lose them either. That is the beauty of EVE. |
Helios Grim
Perkone Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2017.01.26 18:05:08 -
[30] - Quote
The potential that I could lose the carrier has already been WELL explained and the risks involved. Aside from Lulu, I have not received remotely any help from any of you. I asked for help and I got nothing but criticism and insults. This conversation is now over, and I hope none of you respond to other pilots in this way. |
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